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Of course they did, it was a UN run School you muppet, it was on the news today the Israelis drove tanks through a Palestinian cemetery today smashing and grinding up the headstones under the tracks, last time i saw anything like that was when the Nazis used jewish headstones to pave a road to drive over, in good company those thugs are.That’s because Hamas has turned UN run schools into ammunition depots And rocket launch sites. As usual you’re full of Islamic propaganda shit.
No, you did not.Of course they did, it was a UN run School you muppet, it was on the news today the Israelis drove tanks through a Palestinian cemetery today smashing and grinding up the headstones under the tracks, last time i saw anything like that was when the Nazis used jewish headstones to pave a road to drive over, in good company those thugs are.
Yes, I think we agree. Gaza should be far easier to solve (mostly because the borders are clear and there are no Jews living there). In my opinion, it should have been solved with Israel's complete disengagement in 2005. The question remains, how does the international community "make" Gaza choose water instead of rockets?Ironically, I see Gaza as a far lass complicated issue than the West Bank and Jerusalem. Resolving the Gaza issue is quite 'simple' - elimination of Hamas (at least its military part), interim international governing body with its peacekeeping force, and then in say 5 years open and free elections. Lifting all blockades of course and opening it to the world.
The only thing more complicated for the "West Bank" than Gaza is that it doesn't already have defined borders between it and Israel and, well, Jews live there. So? Draw a line (more likely a circle) somewhere that creates a contiguous Palestinian State. If some Jews are included within that circle, they become citizens of the State of Palestine, without condition. (Which, of course, they can decline and vacate the territory.) I would like to see the Jordan Valley included as sovereign Palestine and I would also like to see Israeli military oversight over the Jordan Valley in the foreseeable future, or, alternatively, joint Israeli/Jordanian military oversight.The West Bank. It should be a single political entity with Arab and Jewish populations. I don't know what internal political 'boundaries' it should have. To divide it on Arab and Jewish areas with their respective governing bodies and autonomy (I think it won't be accepted by the Arabs); or to make it as unitary state (won't be accepted by the Jews, given the numbers). As a whole, I think that the Jews there should accept that it is 'the Arab state', though having wide and protected rights.
This is huge, and nearly impossible to tackle. I mean, according to the stats Coyote recently put up there are as many Palestinian "refugees" in the world as there are Jews! The problem is a practical one, rather than one of ideology. Considerations: How are we to define "refugee"? Who, exactly, are we speaking of? How do we provide agency and choice to those affected? How do we apply normative law equally in a case where special rules have been applied to these particular Arab refugees? IF there is to be a significant migration of people to other territories, how do we manage the sudden pressure on resources in both Israel and Palestine?One more complex question that seems to be out of a public discourse is Palestinian refugees in neighboring countries. Without resolving that, any peace agreement isn't possible.
UN teachers held and/or are holding hostages in their homes. That is a war crime and a crime against humanity. That makes them combatants. (Not all of them, but the ones who did.)Of course they did, it was a UN run School you muppet, it was on the news today the Israelis drove tanks through a Palestinian cemetery today smashing and grinding up the headstones under the tracks, last time i saw anything like that was when the Nazis used jewish headstones to pave a road to drive over, in good company those thugs are.
Take it up with the Jerusalem Post.No, you did not.
www.jpost.com
That is not what you were implying. But the Jews should take Hamas grave stones for paving, yes.Take it up with the Jerusalem Post.
Jewish tombstones used by Nazis to build roads found in Poland
Daniels said that they would be taken, flipped around face-down so people didn’t know what they were and placed to pave the streets.
You keep regurgitating the same vomit that you’ve been fed. It Is a well documented fact that Palestinians have used UN schools, hospitals, ambulances, mosques, etc as terrorist and ammunition hubs.Of course they did, it was a UN run School you muppet, it was on the news today the Israelis drove tanks through a Palestinian cemetery today smashing and grinding up the headstones under the tracks, last time i saw anything like that was when the Nazis used jewish headstones to pave a road to drive over, in good company those thugs are.
UN teachers held and/or are holding hostages in their homes. That is a war crime and a crime against humanity. That makes them combatants. (Not all of them, but the ones who did.)
www.unrwa.org
Israel has the capability to make that happen but lack the desire. Palestinians have the desire to make that happen but lack the capability.When This War Is Over - Palestine Will Be Free
Known as Greater Israel from the river to the sea.
Well, your last paragraph excellently sums up this discussion. People can endlessly argue about 'good' solutions of the Palestinian issue - speculate about governing bodies, peacekeeping forces, sectors, population and land exchanges, etc. But does it have any sense on practice? Don't know. Maybe not. There are so much hostility on the both sides.Yes, I think we agree. Gaza should be far easier to solve (mostly because the borders are clear and there are no Jews living there). In my opinion, it should have been solved with Israel's complete disengagement in 2005. The question remains, how does the international community "make" Gaza choose water instead of rockets?
Can we find a reliable governing body willing to take on the work of ensuring Israel's security and developing Gaza's economy, on a temporary basis, thus removing Israel from responsibility for the people of Gaza? Who might that be? How much governmental authority should it have? How long should it last? Once elections are accomplished and a new, local government be put in place, how would the transition be completed? Some further detail, re: the blockade...
Land blockade: Israel, like every other country in the world, has complete sovereign control over her borders. Full stop. The fact that she has borders with Gaza, in no way implies Gaza is still occupied by her, just as the USA does not occupy Canada just because we share a border. There must be no obligation on Israel to provide goods and services to Gaza, though she could agree to do so. There must be no obligation imposed on Israel to permit unrestricted entry of citizens of Gaza into her territory, though she could agree to do so. There must be no obligation imposed on Israel to trade (import goods) with Gaza, though she could agree to do so.
All goods entering Gaza, through Egypt and through Israel, would be inspected by the temporary international governing body in Gaza for weapons and those weapons would be confiscated. All dual-use items would be closely monitored. All foreign aide would be strictly monitored that it is put to proper use (building infrastructure). All protected areas (schools, hospitals, mosques) would be regularly inspected. These procedures will be continued by the new, elected, local government of Gaza for a mutually agreed upon period of time.
Sea blockade: Fishing territories would be gradually increased, in stages, over time. The international governing body, and eventually, the local governing body will continue to monitor the territorial waters for importation of weapons, and confiscate (yes, that means an enforced, and then voluntary demilitarization for a period of time). A port would be planned and built. Imports would be inspected in similar procedures as at the land borders.
Eventually, after a decade or two or three of peace, all this can go away, and we have just two peacefully co-existing States.
The only thing more complicated for the "West Bank" than Gaza is that it doesn't already have defined borders between it and Israel and, well, Jews live there. So? Draw a line (more likely a circle) somewhere that creates a contiguous Palestinian State. If some Jews are included within that circle, they become citizens of the State of Palestine, without condition. (Which, of course, they can decline and vacate the territory.) I would like to see the Jordan Valley included as sovereign Palestine and I would also like to see Israeli military oversight over the Jordan Valley in the foreseeable future, or, alternatively, joint Israeli/Jordanian military oversight.
Jerusalem remains more-or-less undivided, and under Israeli sovereignty. (You'd have to talk me into carving off a slice of Jerusalem for the Arab State, particularly concerning: security for Israel, contiguity with the State of Palestine, which sections specifically.) The status quo on the Temple Mount remains in place.
All peoples in both States have equality in law.
This is huge, and nearly impossible to tackle. I mean, according to the stats Coyote recently put up there are as many Palestinian "refugees" in the world as there are Jews! The problem is a practical one, rather than one of ideology. Considerations: How are we to define "refugee"? Who, exactly, are we speaking of? How do we provide agency and choice to those affected? How do we apply normative law equally in a case where special rules have been applied to these particular Arab refugees? IF there is to be a significant migration of people to other territories, how do we manage the sudden pressure on resources in both Israel and Palestine?
Couple of other points:
I wonder if there was a way to enforce adherence to these agreements and solutions. Like what happens if the international governing body allows, or is negligent, weapons to be brought in to Gaza? What are the consequences? What consequences could be imagined and implemented?
I don't know if ANY of this is even a viable option anymore. The Israelis are digging deep into, "We can't live next to people who want to exterminate us", and the Palestinians are digging deep into, "From the river to the sea". How do we reverse THOSE trends?
The noise I'm hearing out of Israel is that return to the "status quo" is absolutely out of the question.It seems more or less clear that they will keep some military control over it. Between three possible 'solutions' - annexation, occupation and returning to the status quo, they seem to choose something in the middle.
For a peaceful existence after this war the Palestinians themselves must demand new leadership. Especially after what Hamas has done to them by their brutal attack without warning on Israel causing Israel to retaliate.The noise I'm hearing out of Israel is that return to the "status quo" is absolutely out of the question.
They bulldozed them under tank tracks, it's irrelevant what they did after.That is not what you were implying. But the Jews should take Hamas grave stones for paving, yes.
With their Palestinian leadership that is so very true.
Yes, the status quo isn't possible. That is why I said about 'something in the middle'. But then again, it will be only in the best case scenario. Israel's shifting to 'far-right' side raises some concerns, of course. This shift may end up really bad for the region.The noise I'm hearing out of Israel is that return to the "status quo" is absolutely out of the question.
Was it okay for Germany to annex Poland in WWII?Then the Arabs should sit down on its collective ass and beg for accommodation.
Warfare is not its medium, for sure.
Hamas didn't start the war. Israel did 16 years ago with its illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza.Got news for you.Palestinians & supporters like you should thank Israel for their controlled retaliation. Start a war without warning like Hamas did on Israel & you pay the consequences. Very minor so far considering what we did when our country was attacked without warning. Well over 200,000 dead & others still living while suffering even now from the after effects. Israel has a long way to go to beat that. Don't you agree?
Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Photos From the Ruins, 1945
LIFE photographs -- resembling every war-battered panorama from Verdun to Vietnam -- made in September, 1945, in Hiroshima and Nagasakiwww.life.com
I believe it.I saw a report today the Israelis carried out a massacre in a School where women and kids were sheltering, not by bombing it but with bullets.
