When This War Is Over - Palestine Will Be Free

[Lisa558]

No, Israel will build condos on it......Profit.

My vision for the Gaza Resort, ten years hence:

 

[Redfish]

It's the other way around - the illegal Zionist immigrants have been forcing Palestinians of their land and building illegal settlements since 1948 - and the radical Palestinian groups go on a rampage and kill Israelis with knives, guns, or bombings since they do not have tanks, an Army, nor an Air-force.

Galatians 6:7-8​

God cannot be mocked. A man (Zionists) reaps what he sows - naturally Jews don't care about the NT. You call yourself a Christian?

Chief-gangster Netanyahu - propagates to wipe out Hamas (to protect Israel) , whilst just today officially supporting the additional building of 1152 apartments for illegal Jewish settlers in the West-Bank. Radical Zionists are simply a lying bunch of Hypocrites. And so are YOU and/or just plain ignorant towards FACTS.

The land belongs to Israel, there is no such country as Palestine, it does not exist. the Muslims are on a 1000 year jihad to rule the world and kill all non muslims, why can't you lefties see this for what it really is?

 

[Kruska]

Many of whom are Hamas terrorists.

The IDF themselves estimate the Hamas militia to be at around 20 - 25 thousand, Out of which more the 50% are NOT even members of the Al Qassam Brigades - but act as simple policemen and extortionists towards the Palestinian civilian population of 2.2 Million.

Even if ALL Hamas militia members would be AL Qassam members, which is not the case - it would only equal to 1% of the Gaza population.

So what is MANY? to you?

The IDF and it's reserves account for 15% of the Jewish Israeli population, and 10% of Israels total population.
The US Armed Forces account to less then 0.3% of the US total population.

 

[MJB12741]

It's the other way around - the illegal Zionist immigrants have been forcing Palestinians of their land and building illegal settlements since 1948 - and the radical Palestinian groups go on a rampage and kill Israelis with knives, guns, or bombings since they do not have tanks, an Army, nor an Air-force.

Galatians 6:7-8​

God cannot be mocked. A man (Zionists) reaps what he sows - naturally Jews don't care about the NT. You call yourself a Christian?

Chief-gangster Netanyahu - propagates to wipe out Hamas (to protect Israel) , whilst just today officially supporting the additional building of 1152 apartments for illegal Jewish settlers in the West-Bank. Radical Zionists are simply a lying bunch of Hypocrites. And so are YOU and/or just plain ignorant towards FACTS.

Talk about being ignorant of the facts consider this fact: Israel's controlled retaliation for attack without warning is nothing to compare with what we did when our country was attacked without warning killing hundreds of thousands in Japan.

 

[marvin martian]

No one is siding with them you fucking Nazi

Of course you are.

 

[Kruska]

Last I checked the New Testament, Jesus was born a Zionist Jew in Israel, aka Judea. Go learn your facts.

You mean you are once again referring to your non-existent knowledge.

Jesus (if he even existed) was not born in Israel, and neither in Judea - since Herod Antipas (a strong promoter of Hellenistic (Greco-Roman culture) was only the Roman appointed Tetrarch (ruler of a minor principality) of Roman Syria Palestine - aka the Roman minor principality of Galilee and Peraea.

As such Jesus (His name was Jesus of Nazareth - and not Jesus of Bethlehem) was born as a Jew in the ROMAN minor principality of Galilee - a part of Roman Syria Palestine. And he certainly wasn't a Zionist, since he NEVER preached about a Jewish state nor towards resurrecting the long gone Kingdom of David and Solomon.

Even if Jesus was born in Bethlehem (no proof) - he would have been born as a Jew in the Roman minor principality of Samaria - a minor principality within the Roman Province of Judea. Governed by the Roman appointed Ethnarch, Herod Archelaus - not even a Tetrarch like his brother Antipas. And Bethlehem today is in the West-bank, making Mr. Jesus a Jewish-Palestinian.

Just as there was no Germany in 5 B.C. there was no Israel in 5 B.C. As such someone born in Augusta Vindelicorum - today called Augsburg would have been born in the ROMAN province of Rhaetia and his ethnicity might have been that of a Celtic Bayuvari - e.g. a Jew from the Roman province of Galilee - and therefore he wouldn't have been born in Germany and neither in Israel.

You know what is the historic and mental difference between a Celtic Bayuvari and a crackpot Jewish Zionist?

The first one was never utterly destroyed and expelled from his homeland - but stayed there continuously for 3500 years until today in Bavaria, (just as the forefathers of today's Palestinians). As such no Celtic Bayuvari, who's ancestors happen to migrate to and live for 2000 years in e.g. Egypt - ever had the nerve nor arrogance, to claim someone else's land and house in Bavaria in 1917 - citing that his grandgrandgrandgrand........daddy used to live there 2000 years ago.

Again you over and over proof, that YOU know NOTHING - but only post pure garbage.

 

[Kruska]

Israel's controlled retaliation for attack without warning...

WTF are you even talking about?

is nothing to compare with what we did when our country was attacked without warning killing hundreds of thousands in Japan.

The Palestinians never attacked a State of Israel in 1948. However a self-declared Jewish State attacked the Palestinians and forced out a million of them, and has been robbing and stealing their land non-stop since 1948 whilst killing 10 times as many Palestinians then Jews having been killed. Meanwhile there are 6+ million Palestinian refugees without an own country and means towards existence.

You bring up a country like Imperial Japan - that had murdered around 30 million Chinese and Koreans since 1880 - mad enough to attack Soviet-Russia, the British, French, Portuguese, Dutch Colonies and the USA and Australia - in reference to Israels illegal settlement policy and indiscriminate killing of Palestinian civilians.

How distorted are you?

 

[Kruska]

The land belongs to Israel, there is no such country as Palestine, it does not exist. the Muslims are on a 1000 year jihad to rule the world and kill all non muslims, why can't you lefties see this for what it really is?

Keep your unsubstantiated statements and pure nonsense to yourself and your ilk.

 

[ESay]

What makes the Israeli-Palestine issue so distinguished from other modern wars and military conflicts between countries is that no one modern country grounds its territorial claims on some boundaries that existed thousands years ago. Many things happened since then and new reality began to exist.

But it is somewhat understandable why Israel is doing so. Their 'ethnic' and religious identity is tied to the land that was 'promised' to them thousand years back. And of course the past reality doesn't get along well with the modern reality. But the Jews can't throw away that, because it is the same as expecting the Italians to throw away the parts of the Catholic Bible.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

"Palestine" will be free of Muslim terrorists, for sure

 

[Shusha]

What makes the Israeli-Palestine issue so distinguished from other modern wars and military conflicts between countries is that no one modern country grounds its territorial claims on some boundaries that existed thousands years ago. Many things happened since then and new reality began to exist.

Israel's territorial claims are not based on boundaries from thousands of years ago. They are based on the Mandates, same as all of the other modern countries in the region. The Jewish people's claim to indigeneity is based on their origins and long history in that land.

 

[MJB12741]

WTF are you even talking about?

The Palestinians never attacked a State of Israel in 1948. However a self-declared Jewish State attacked the Palestinians and forced out a million of them, and has been robbing and stealing their land non-stop since 1948 whilst killing 10 times as many Palestinians then Jews having been killed. Meanwhile there are 6+ million Palestinian refugees without an own country and means towards existence.

You bring up a country like Imperial Japan - that had murdered around 30 million Chinese and Koreans since 1880 - mad enough to attack Soviet-Russia, the British, French, Portuguese, Dutch Colonies and the USA and Australia - in reference to Israels illegal settlement policy and indiscriminate killing of Palestinian civilians.

How distorted are you?

Now now. Don't let the facts get you so upset. You might get a stroke or something & we need you here for laughs.

 

[MJB12741]

"Palestine" will be free of Muslim terrorists, for sure

How wonderful that would be for peace in the Middle East.

 

[ESay]

Israel's territorial claims are not based on boundaries from thousands of years ago. They are based on the Mandates, same as all of the other modern countries in the region. The Jewish people's claim to indigeneity is based on their origins and long history in that land.

Agreed, 'boundaries' wasn't a proper word here, maybe 'area' or something like that would be more correct.

I don't even want to talk about 'origins' and similar stuff. There are no places on Earth that are occupied fully by 'original' people. You can't pretend that the things that happened in deep history (in the form of legends too) can be viewed as basis while ignoring what happened in the last two millennia.

 

[Shusha]

Agreed, 'boundaries' wasn't a proper word here, maybe 'area' or something like that would be more correct.

I don't even want to talk about 'origins' and similar stuff. There are no places on Earth that are occupied fully by 'original' people. You can't pretend that the things that happened in deep history (in the form of legends too) can be viewed as basis while ignoring what happened in the last two millennia.

Sure. But everyone (term used loosely) seems to want to pretend there is something different about Israel. That somehow, of ALL the nations of the world that were formed in the past, oh, I don't know, 100 years, that Israel is the only one that (insert claim here). Israel is not different than other nations which have formed around a specific ethnic group, culture, language, or other unifying factor. Nor is Israel different from other indigenous peoples working on achieving their own self-determination. Self-determination is an inherent right for ALL peoples, it must not only apply to some peoples.

For Israelis (and for Jews) the purpose of the modern state of Israel is not formulated upon ancient history (though Jewish history in the land is extremely important). It is formulated upon a very genuine need for a place of safety and a need for a place to have full expression of Jewish values and Jewish culture, the Hebrew language, Jewish holidays.

 

[ESay]

Sure. But everyone (term used loosely) seems to want to pretend there is something different about Israel. That somehow, of ALL the nations of the world that were formed in the past, oh, I don't know, 100 years, that Israel is the only one that (insert claim here). Israel is not different than other nations which have formed around a specific ethnic group, culture, language, or other unifying factor. Nor is Israel different from other indigenous peoples working on achieving their own self-determination. Self-determination is an inherent right for ALL peoples, it must not only apply to some peoples.

For Israelis (and for Jews) the purpose of the modern state of Israel is not formulated upon ancient history (though Jewish history in the land is extremely important). It is formulated upon a very genuine need for a place of safety and a need for a place to have full expression of Jewish values and Jewish culture, the Hebrew language, Jewish holidays.

I have no doubts that Israel has a right on existence, and I have no doubts that it has a right to defend itself.

But. (there always is this 'but'). But what is the endgame of this war/conflict in a wider sense? Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem. Expelling the Arabs from there? Well, tell me they don't have the rights, including on self-determination, the Israelis have.

 

[Kruska]

Now now. Don't let the facts get you so upset. You might get a stroke or something & we need you here for laughs.

The only ones making a laugh out of themselves are folks like you - who just post unsubstantiated garbage.

 

[Shusha]

I have no doubts that Israel has a right on existence, and I have no doubts that it has a right to defend itself.

But. (there always is this 'but'). But what is the endgame of this war/conflict in a wider sense? Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem. Expelling the Arabs from there? Well, tell me they don't have the rights, including on self-determination, the Israelis have.

The end game is, has always been, the survival of the Jewish people. I mean, we'd like to also have a thriving nation where the expression of Jewish culture and history and religion and values are celebrated and honored and cherished. We sure would love to pray at our most holy site. But the baseline is just to avoid extermination. It's a terribly low standard, and yet ... here we are.

The Arab people in Palestine have a right to self-determination. I said ALL peoples, and I meant it. But the right to self-determination is not equivalent to the ability to self-determine. When the Arabs are given space for self-determination, and they use that self-determination to slaughter Jews, their rights become significantly more limited. The right to self-determination comes with obligations. You have to play nicely with the others in the sandbox. If you renege on your obligations, you demonstrate that you are not (yet) ready to take on the responsibility of self-determination. If you want a nation, you have to be able to BUILD something, you can't just be focused on destroying.

See the problem is that everyone is constantly making demands on Israel, as though Israel can somehow force the Arabs of Palestine to take on the mantle of self-determination and building. Israel has no ability to create that reality for the Arabs. The Arabs have to do that for themselves. And they don't seem to have the will for it, at least not in "Palestine".

So, what can Israel do? Well, the options are kinda limited. It can apply Israeli sovereignty over the Arab people. Or it can abandon territory to give space for Arab self-determination. (Either way Israel tends to get blamed for all the consequent decisions made by the Arabs.)

Thus far, abandonment of territory by Israel has led to terrible outcomes for both the Arabs and the Israelis. Arabs get stuck with corrupt and/or genocidal leaders who fail spectacularly at self-determination and creating prosperity for their citizens. Israelis get stuck with the pointy end of knives and rockets and shovels.

What is the endgame, then? Since Palestinian Arab self-determination doesn't seem to be possible in the foreseeable future, another nation has to determine for them. (It doesn't have to be Israel. It could be another Arab nation.) Those not able to play nicely in the sandbox with others have to be contained, removed, or, tragically, killed. There are no other options that I can conceive of. If you've got one, I'd love to hear it. Personally, I'm not opposed to a population exchange. It's an ugly solution, but it's been done before, and the outcomes appear not to be as tragic and terrible as this ongoing conflict.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I have no doubts that Israel has a right on existence, and I have no doubts that it has a right to defend itself.

But. (there always is this 'but'). But what is the endgame of this war/conflict in a wider sense? Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem. Expelling the Arabs from there? Well, tell me they don't have the rights, including on self-determination, Israelis have.

You lose your rights when you engage in violent criminal behavior.

Did you somehow miss the CELEBRATIONS over the rape, murder and torture of innocent civilians ? Or do you just want to run with another "yeah, but..."???

 

[Kruska]

Israel is not different than other nations which have formed around a specific ethnic group, culture, language, or other unifying factor. Nor is Israel different from other indigenous peoples working on achieving their own self-determination. Self-determination is an inherent right for ALL peoples, it must not only apply to some peoples.

Israel aka the radical Zionists differ from all other countries/examples - in that they propagate that it is okay to take away other peoples land, occupy it, oppress other ethnicity (via citing other countries and history as examples - which all predates the UN Charter of 1945) but then citing the UN Charter of 1945, whilst whining and crying about those being oppressed and having lost their lands, resorting towards retribution aka violence.

And furthermore, those who sympathize with the Palestinians rights and their plight - they simply accuse of being antisemitic - arrogantly making ultimate and calculative use of the globally existing "Holocaust guilt and pity syndrome".

Just as if Russia would cite the UN Charter and whine and cry about the Ukrainians detonating drones within Russia and committing terrorist acts within Russia, thus "justifying" some A-bombs to defend Russia and thereby "eloquently" solving the Ukrainian issue. And Russia's claim only dates back 33 years, and not onto some irrelevant pseudo claim, based onto 3000 years ago.

Radical Zionists are Hypocrites at their finest. - that's all there is to it.

It is formulated upon a very genuine need for a place of safety and a need for a place to have full expression of Jewish values and Jewish culture, the Hebrew language, Jewish holidays.

Therefore the British or the UN should have offered them e.g. some 20,000mls2 in Australia, or e.g. the USA could have offered them a part of e.g. Arizona. (Since they cared soooo much about Jews having been persecuted since 1934 in Nazi-Germany and those displaced Holocaust survivors in 1945 - pun intended). Thus avoiding any tensions and reasons for war in Palestine and the Middle-East.

Highhandedly allocating land in an area totally dominated and populated by Muslims and their culture for almost 1400 years, without even getting a consent from the locals - was plain stupid and arrogant, however the ones that wanted exactly that, where the Zionists in 1917. !!

Now stop whining and crying about a miserable and unacceptable situation that was caused solely by Zionists. Return Palestinian lands as designated in the UN partition-plan of 1947 - or keep following the Zionist path, that will eventually lead to yet another self-destruction (#6) of a forcefully created Israel.

Obviously Jews aren't nearly as "intelligent" as the Zionist love to claim - I wouldn't know of any people that had lost their homeland/Kingdom 5 times, within 1500 years - whilst additionally claiming to be God's chosen ones !! and steering into destruction #6.