Where does the constitution give Congress power to set up national health care?

[Steven_R]

It is interesting the number of mental and legal gymnastics the courts do to do exactly what the Constitution prohibits. Art1, Sec specifically says Congress can only make law on a very small number of things and rather than amend the Constitution when the Constitution is inadequate, stuff just get shoehorned in as covered under spending or tax or commerce or necessary or general welfare clauses.

I've said it many times, but centuries from now when historians look at the causes of the fall of the United States the chief culprit won't be politicians, but will be the courts that just let pretty much everything stand so long as it could somehow be tenuously connected to one of the nebulous phrases that don't mean what the founders explicitly intended.

 

[RKMBrown]

It is interesting the number of mental and legal gymnastics the courts do to do exactly what the Constitution prohibits. Art1, Sec specifically says Congress can only make law on a very small number of things and rather than amend the Constitution when the Constitution is inadequate, stuff just get shoehorned in as covered under spending or tax or commerce or necessary or general welfare clauses.

I've said it many times, but centuries from now when historians look at the causes of the fall of the United States the chief culprit won't be politicians, but will be the courts that just let pretty much everything stand so long as it could somehow be tenuously connected to one of the nebulous phrases that don't mean what the founders explicitly intended.

welfare clause yes...

But the due process clause of the 14th is explicit. With due process all of your rights, life, property, everything can be taken at the whim of the majority as long as the majority claim due process. Thus, nearly the entire point of the constitution was rendered moot with one clause.

The income tax in the 16th is also clear, we are all slaves of the government.

The realignment of congress to a tyranny by turning the Senate to the majority vote is also clear. The government no longer has a senate that reports to the states for keeping the powers of the federal government in check.

 

[Snookie]

You don't even understand the issue. Tax or not, congress cannot do things unless it's one of their powers listed in the constitution.

think

The power to tax is enumerated in the constitution.

So by that logic you just lost your freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to bear arms, etc. All I have to do is create a law repealing those freedoms, call them a "tax", and I'm golden!

When you tell me I must purchase a good or service - that is not a tax. A tax is money taken to run one of the governments 18 enumerated powers. It is NOT controlling an action and it is NOT taking money for socialism which Congress does not have authority for in the first place. You people are profound fuck'n morons who try to twist and pervert EVERYTHING for your own sick, lazy, parasite agenda and it is going to bite you in your miserable ass one day when you no longer have any freedoms left [MENTION=42294]Snookie[/MENTION].

You are trumped by the supreme court. BTW Everybody is mandated to purchase car insurance.

 

[dcraelin]

Obamacare was sold on a couple of important lies

1) Obama said during campaign that individual mandate was not necessary, this very well may have given him his win in Iowa which propelled him to the presidency.

2) portions of Obamacare were sold to Congress on basis they were not taxes. Then when it got to the Supreme Morons,they said, illogically, that for some purposes its tax, but for others its not. Well then if it is indeed a tax, then it passed thru Congress on a lie and should've been sent back.

 

[dblack]

Obamacare was sold on a couple of important lies

1) Obama said during campaign that individual mandate was not necessary, this very well may have given him his win in Iowa which propelled him to the presidency.

2) portions of Obamacare were sold to Congress on basis they were not taxes. Then when it got to the Supreme Morons,they said, illogically, that for some purposes its tax, but for others its not. Well then if it is indeed a tax, then it passed thru Congress on a lie and should've been sent back.

Exactly. Those are the core deceits behind the law.

 

[dblack]

BTW Everybody is mandated to purchase car insurance.

Well, btw, that's demonstrably untrue.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The power to tax is enumerated in the constitution.

So by that logic you just lost your freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to bear arms, etc. All I have to do is create a law repealing those freedoms, call them a "tax", and I'm golden!

When you tell me I must purchase a good or service - that is not a tax. A tax is money taken to run one of the governments 18 enumerated powers. It is NOT controlling an action and it is NOT taking money for socialism which Congress does not have authority for in the first place. You people are profound fuck'n morons who try to twist and pervert EVERYTHING for your own sick, lazy, parasite agenda and it is going to bite you in your miserable ass one day when you no longer have any freedoms left [MENTION=42294]Snookie[/MENTION].

You are trumped by the supreme court. BTW Everybody is mandated to purchase car insurance.

Bullshit..If one does not own a motor vehicle or owns a motor vehicle that is not used on the public roads, no insurance is required in either case.
Nice try though.

 

[dblack]

So by that logic you just lost your freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to bear arms, etc. All I have to do is create a law repealing those freedoms, call them a "tax", and I'm golden!

When you tell me I must purchase a good or service - that is not a tax. A tax is money taken to run one of the governments 18 enumerated powers. It is NOT controlling an action and it is NOT taking money for socialism which Congress does not have authority for in the first place. You people are profound fuck'n morons who try to twist and pervert EVERYTHING for your own sick, lazy, parasite agenda and it is going to bite you in your miserable ass one day when you no longer have any freedoms left [MENTION=42294]Snookie[/MENTION].

You are trumped by the supreme court. BTW Everybody is mandated to purchase car insurance.

Bullshit..If one does not own a motor vehicle or owns a motor vehicle that is not used on the public roads, no insurance is required in either case.
Nice try though.

It's also not required in all states.

 

[bendog]

Obamacare was sold on a couple of important lies

1) Obama said during campaign that individual mandate was not necessary, this very well may have given him his win in Iowa which propelled him to the presidency.

2) portions of Obamacare were sold to Congress on basis they were not taxes. Then when it got to the Supreme Morons,they said, illogically, that for some purposes its tax, but for others its not. Well then if it is indeed a tax, then it passed thru Congress on a lie and should've been sent back.

Exactly. Those are the core deceits behind the law.

And Reagan said he'd balance the budget. It's over. Get past it. And Pickett's charge failed.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It's not there and that means they don't have it - the states do. Obamacare is obviously unconstitutional as is 99% of what the feds do. The states need to grow a pair and scream about this.

Article XXX, sec 2 following the power it gives to the Speaker of the House to deny the Members of the H. of Rep. to exercise their duty and vote on the CR.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Obamacare was sold on a couple of important lies

1) Obama said during campaign that individual mandate was not necessary, this very well may have given him his win in Iowa which propelled him to the presidency.

2) portions of Obamacare were sold to Congress on basis they were not taxes. Then when it got to the Supreme Morons,they said, illogically, that for some purposes its tax, but for others its not. Well then if it is indeed a tax, then it passed thru Congress on a lie and should've been sent back.

Exactly. Those are the core deceits behind the law.

And Reagan said he'd balance the budget. It's over. Get past it. And Pickett's charge failed.

Reagan?!!! WTF..
Reagan said he'd balance the budget, but not on the backs of the American people.
Get it right.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
You are trumped by the supreme court. BTW Everybody is mandated to purchase car insurance.

Hey stupid. Where does the constitution say the unelected judges on the SC shall have final say on every issue?

 

[Wry Catcher]

You are trumped by the supreme court. BTW Everybody is mandated to purchase car insurance.

Bullshit..If one does not own a motor vehicle or owns a motor vehicle that is not used on the public roads, no insurance is required in either case.
Nice try though.

It's also not required in all states.

Not buying auto insurance and driving is very stupid. At least those who don't buy health insurance are assured of getting treated in an ER - on the taxpayers dime.

 

[RKMBrown]

Bullshit..If one does not own a motor vehicle or owns a motor vehicle that is not used on the public roads, no insurance is required in either case.
Nice try though.

It's also not required in all states.

Not buying auto insurance and driving is very stupid. At least those who don't buy health insurance are assured of getting treated in an ER - on the taxpayers dime.

Actually, the tax payer doesn't pay for it. The hospitals write if off as a loss, and subsequently run up the bills of people that actually pay for their stays at the hospital to cover the loss.

IOW the paying consumer pays. The Consumers that do pay may be a drug dealers, fat cat politicians, or grandma.

 

[dblack]

Obamacare was sold on a couple of important lies

1) Obama said during campaign that individual mandate was not necessary, this very well may have given him his win in Iowa which propelled him to the presidency.

2) portions of Obamacare were sold to Congress on basis they were not taxes. Then when it got to the Supreme Morons,they said, illogically, that for some purposes its tax, but for others its not. Well then if it is indeed a tax, then it passed thru Congress on a lie and should've been sent back.

Exactly. Those are the core deceits behind the law.

And Reagan said he'd balance the budget. It's over. Get past it. And Pickett's charge failed.

What's your point? That because Reagan failed to balance the budget we should give up on that goal?

It's not that Obama failed, it's that he did the opposite of what he said he would. He made it a point to contrast his idea of health care reform with Clinton's specifically on the issue of the mandate.

And a law that is passed on false pretenses deserves to be re-examined. What else were they lying about? Obama lied about the tax issue specifically to give cover Democrats supporting the bill, so they couldn't be accused of raising taxes come election time. If they'd been open about the tax hike, they would have received much more pressure from constituents to vote against the bill - and as close as the vote was it likely wouldn't have passed.

In other words, there wasn't honest majority support for ACA when it was passed. There still isn't, which is why the Republicans are grandstanding on the issue. Our nation needs health care reform, not another corporatist swindle.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It's also not required in all states.

Not buying auto insurance and driving is very stupid. At least those who don't buy health insurance are assured of getting treated in an ER - on the taxpayers dime.

Actually, the tax payer doesn't pay for it. The hospitals write if off as a loss, and subsequently run up the bills of people that actually pay for their stays at the hospital to cover the loss.

IOW the paying consumer pays. The Consumers that do pay may be a drug dealers, fat cat politicians, or grandma.

Close, but no cigar. Public, i.e., County Hospitals provide care for the indigent and anyone who shows up at their ER. County hospitals are supported by taxes, money spent on those w/o insurance is not money spent on street repairs, police services, recreation services for kids, etc. etc. etc.

In fact any hospital will treat anyone, but the patient is then dumped on the County.

 

[RKMBrown]

Not buying auto insurance and driving is very stupid. At least those who don't buy health insurance are assured of getting treated in an ER - on the taxpayers dime.

Actually, the tax payer doesn't pay for it. The hospitals write if off as a loss, and subsequently run up the bills of people that actually pay for their stays at the hospital to cover the loss.

IOW the paying consumer pays. The Consumers that do pay may be a drug dealers, fat cat politicians, or grandma.

Close, but no cigar. Public, i.e., County Hospitals provide care for the indigent and anyone who shows up at their ER. County hospitals are supported by taxes, money spent on those w/o insurance is not money spent on street repairs, police services, recreation services for kids, etc. etc. etc.

In fact any hospital will treat anyone, but the patient is then dumped on the County.

Ah, well now you are talking about local and state taxes, not federal taxes.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Actually, the tax payer doesn't pay for it. The hospitals write if off as a loss, and subsequently run up the bills of people that actually pay for their stays at the hospital to cover the loss.

IOW the paying consumer pays. The Consumers that do pay may be a drug dealers, fat cat politicians, or grandma.

Close, but no cigar. Public, i.e., County Hospitals provide care for the indigent and anyone who shows up at their ER. County hospitals are supported by taxes, money spent on those w/o insurance is not money spent on street repairs, police services, recreation services for kids, etc. etc. etc.

In fact any hospital will treat anyone, but the patient is then dumped on the County.

Ah, well now you are talking about local and state taxes, not federal taxes.

Wow.

 

[RKMBrown]

Close, but no cigar. Public, i.e., County Hospitals provide care for the indigent and anyone who shows up at their ER. County hospitals are supported by taxes, money spent on those w/o insurance is not money spent on street repairs, police services, recreation services for kids, etc. etc. etc.

In fact any hospital will treat anyone, but the patient is then dumped on the County.

Ah, well now you are talking about local and state taxes, not federal taxes.

Wow.

What part of the OP being about congress and NATIONAL health care confused you?

 

[itfitzme]

Close, but no cigar. Public, i.e., County Hospitals provide care for the indigent and anyone who shows up at their ER. County hospitals are supported by taxes, money spent on those w/o insurance is not money spent on street repairs, police services, recreation services for kids, etc. etc. etc.

In fact any hospital will treat anyone, but the patient is then dumped on the County.

Ah, well now you are talking about local and state taxes, not federal taxes.

Wow.

Yeah, I'm not following him either. I think it is avoidance.

I seem to recall a documentary or news story interviewing a private hospital where the financial manager made it clear that paying customer rates are higher to cover losses by uninsured patients. I also know that county hospitals do not tend to be trauma centers where major injuries are treated. That is expensive. Recovery happens at the county hospital or other care facility.