Which countries do you wish a leading role in Europe?

[Zebra]

When I said "lead" - I meant: lead from within!

and: If the UK is not in Europe, where is it then?

This is a good question.

 

[ESay]

Only some "nutty" Eastern European would want the USA to control (aka "lead") Europe - just look at the USA's own heap of economic and political chaos and intolerance.

Yeah, no one is ideal. But that is about realities. When Europe fought with each other for regional and global dominance in two world wars, it ended up in a situation where Europe lost influence even on own continent.

It would be interesting to speculate what Europe would look like now had Germany won the WWI. It may well be that the things may have been much different now.

But our era isn't and won't be the era of Europe. No matter how many of these funny pols one will post with such global influencers like say Hungary or Ireland.

 

[zaangalewa]

Yeah, no one is ideal. But that is about realities. When Europe fought with each other for regional and global dominance in two world wars, it ended up in a situation where Europe lost influence even on own continent.


It would be interesting to speculate what Europe would look like now had Germany won the WWI.

The Osman empire would still exist and Islamism would not exist. The nations on the Balkan would work together and not against each other. Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Great Britain had founded the Northern alliance. In the South of Europe a new Roman-Greek empire had been born. Germany had been renamed in Prussia. And I fight against this damned idiots in the underground BAuTRA - the Bavarian-Austrian-Tirolian Republican Army. We bomb Berlin continously with stones from the Alps. Meanwhile 50% of the Alps are flat and we have a free view to the mediterranian sea while the sky scrapers in Berlin grow and grow. How comes?

It may well be that the things may have been much different now.

But our era isn't and won't be the era of Europe.

Europe is the fundament of nearly the whole planet - or do you speak Navajo with a Chinese accent?

No matter how many of these funny pols one will post with such global influencers like say Hungary or Ireland.

 

[Zebra]

But our era isn't and won't be the era of Europe. No matter how many of these funny pols one will post with such global influencers like say Hungary or Ireland.

OK.

Now Poland is leading with 6 points.

 

[Zebra]

Only some "nutty" Eastern European would want the USA to control (aka "lead") Europe -

So it is.

 

[ESay]

OK.

Now Poland is leading with 6 points.

Cool. It would be great to see Poland leading Germany and France.

 

[ActionJackson]

I want the nations that are the most Nationalistic to have leading roles. I want the nations that control their borders and block the Mideastern invaders to have the most control. I want the nations that are opposed to Globalism and lean towards individual freedom to have the most influence.

So far, none of the nations listed in the poll are ideal, but Hungary and Poland may lean in the right direction. I didn't see Iceland mentioned, but I don't believe the invasion from the Muslim hoards has affected them that much. YET.

 

[Kruska]

Yeah, no one is ideal. But that is about realities. When Europe fought with each other for regional and global dominance in two world wars, it ended up in a situation where Europe lost influence even on own continent.

Not entirely correct, since the USSR (A European power) had themselves gained tremendous influence and territory due to WW2. Whilst France and Britain basically vanished as colonial/imperialistic powers, and Germany took around 30 years to reestablish itself as Western Europe's main economic power.

It would be interesting to speculate what Europe would look like now had Germany won the WWI. It may well be that the things may have been much different now.

That would be interesting indeed.
Aside from the USA making sure that Britain and France would be able to pay back $ billions of war credits - why do you think the US declared war onto Germany in WW1?
Also besides Hawaii, Midway, Guam and the Philippines - 80% of the Western and South-Western Pacific right down to Papua Guinea and Samoa was German colonial possession. After WW1 redistributed mainly amongst the USA and Japan - setting the path for the next conflict.

But our era isn't and won't be the era of Europe. No matter how many of these funny pols one will post with such global influencers like say Hungary or Ireland.

On the contra - Europe (EU) is in a far better position to remain an economic power bloc, and even grow (Thanks to Eastern Europe) - whilst the USA will continue going downhill. The only thing the USA has still left is it's vast military superiority and an ever growing tremendous national debt - which has no negative bearing in regards to Europe - or do you anticipate the USA to attack Europe?

 

[toomuchtime_]

So the US under bozo Biden is the natural leader of Europe. ...

More so than any other country.

 

[Kruska]

I want the nations that are the most Nationalistic to have leading roles. I want the nations that control their borders and block the Mideastern invaders to have the most control. I want the nations that are opposed to Globalism and lean towards individual freedom to have the most influence.

So far, none of the nations listed in the poll are ideal, but Hungary and Poland may lean in the right direction. I didn't see Iceland mentioned, but I don't believe the invasion from the Muslim hoards has affected them that much. YET.

Personally I do not favor terms like Nation and Nationalism - since it implies corrupt and manipulative government party control, and not control by the people.
Take Bavaria as an example: We are proud of our heritage and culture - we do not aspire to influence or control others, therefore we reject and oppose those trying to control us - which naturally also includes our own elected government.

We have a far better education system then Germany overall - since we have autonomous rights and laws within the German Federation.
Our parliamentary and government laws provide for peoples referendums - similar to Switzerland. Anything that does not correspond with what the people want, can't go through in Bavaria, due to the so called peoples petition rights. (It's entirely up to the people to make use of these laws - or be lazy and let the government infringe onto your rights).

Therefore of all the German Federation states - Bavaria has e.g. the least migrant% of all.
Even in regards to EU laws and regulations - Bavaria has the constitutional right to object and to refuse such laws - see e.g. agriculture, food and beverages.
Unlike Germany, and all other EU members, Bavaria has never signed/validated the memorandum as to where EU law presides over national law.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

This thread......

 

[toomuchtime_]

The UK is geographically a part of Europe and therefore play's and has always played it's part in European politics - what you are referring to is the European Union aka EU.
The USA achieved it's dominance over Europe thanks to WW1 and WW2 - just as the former USSR did.

The USA is clearly an economic rival to the EU - the policy of the USA is that of Global Imperialism and hegemony since 1900 - something that the EU has only started to pursue recently via kissing the US backside and in recognition of being politically dominated by the USA and lacking an own Armed Forces.

Since the EU is NOT a United States of Europe - it isn't comparable at all to the USA.

If the EU aka European countries would adopt the Switzerland model of democracy (Sadly Switzerland is missing on the list) there would be no need for an imposed dominant leadership of a specific European country - but the EUROPEAN PEOPLE would actually decide onto their rights and wants and not some corrupt/manipulating political party ruling in their own interest.

I get it. You and Putin don't like the US.

 

[Kruska]

I get it. You and Putin don't like the US.

Nonsense - I own quite some property in Colorado - most Americans in my neighbor hood and myself are on friendly to very good terms.
I do not dislike or despise Americans - but I do despise Lefty&Libs or MAGA idiots of any country, and I find the manipulative and corrupt practices of ALL US political parties to be utterly deplorable.

And to be clear; a MAGA idiot - are those who can't see behind the curtain, that Trump is a lying human scumbag who is misusing and misleading the MAGA concept.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Nonsense - I own quite some property in Colorado - most Americans in my neighbor hood and myself are on friendly to very good terms.
I do not dislike or despise Americans - but I do despise Lefty&Libs or MAGA idiots of any country, and I find the manipulative and corrupt practices of ALL US political parties to be utterly deplorable.

And to be clear; a MAGA idiot - are those who can't see behind the curtain, that Trump is a lying human scumbag who is misusing and misleading the MAGA concept.

So you don't like America, but that doesn't mean you dislike all Americans. I'll bet Putin feels pretty much the same way.

 

[Zebra]

But honestly, I looked at your list and found an argument against ANY of those countries listed as being in a "leadership" position.

Yes - there will be

 

[Kruska]

So you don't like America, but that doesn't mean you dislike all Americans. I'll bet Putin feels pretty much the same way.

I certainly wouldn't like an America led by Biden or Trump.
As for Putin - I haven't talked to him lately, so I wouldn't know.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes - there will be

Germany and France already tried that and it didn't work out well for anyone.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I certainly wouldn't like an America led by Biden or Trump.
As for Putin - I haven't talked to him lately, so I wouldn't know.

If it weren't for America, Putin would already be the leader of Europe.

 

[ESay]

Not entirely correct, since the USSR (A European power) had themselves gained tremendous influence and territory due to WW2. Whilst France and Britain basically vanished as colonial/imperialistic powers, and Germany took around 30 years to reestablish itself as Western Europe's main economic power

To call the USSR a European power... Geographically, yes. But culturally, it is a bit overstretched. The US fells in this category for much greater extent.

That would be interesting indeed.
Aside from the USA making sure that Britain and France would be able to pay back $ billions of war credits - why do you think the US declared war onto Germany in WW1?
Also besides Hawaii, Midway, Guam and the Philippines - 80% of the Western and South-Western Pacific right down to Papua Guinea and Samoa was German colonial possession. After WW1 redistributed mainly amongst the USA and Japan - setting the path for the next conflict

Why the US got into the WWI? I think there is a number of reasons - preventing Germany from becoming a new global power; desire to cut their share from a European pie; helping Britain to preserve their role in Europe and elsewhere.

On the contra - Europe (EU) is in a far better position to remain an economic power bloc, and even grow (Thanks to Eastern Europe) - whilst the USA will continue going downhill. The only thing the USA has still left is it's vast military superiority and an ever growing tremendous national debt - which has no negative bearing in regards to Europe - or do you anticipate the USA to attack Europe

Well, that depends on personal views and perspectives. I have numerous times seen American Conservatives telling about Western Europe that is doomed to fail.

First of all, if a United Europe really wants to become a global player it should follow the way of federalization. Without those huge bureaucratic structures with dubious effectiveness. Is it really going to happen at least in our lifetime? Who knows.

Second. The US is more bound to fail than the EU? On what reasons that is based? Political division? I see the same division in Europe. Crime? Yes, many Europeans like to compare murder rates in Europe and the US. But if we take a look in more details, the picture isn't that obvious. Huge American deficit and ever growing debt? Take a look at France, Italy, to say nothing about some smaller nations. Though, I agree that in some timespan the US should undergo an economy transformation.

As I whole I am optimistic about the US. Yes, this struggle between Biden and Trump is a disgrace for American political system. But I hope that a nation of over 300 million people will be able to find one decent person after all that shitshow ends.

 

[Kruska]

If it weren't for America, Putin would already be the leader of Europe.

If you are familiar with Putin's speech, held at the German parliament in 2001 - then you will know why after that speech the USA pushed so hard for the NATO Eastward-Expansion.

Putin basically told the entire world - that in view of common cultural and shared historic European connections - Russia could naturally replace the USA as the economic and political partner to Europe. He never mentioned Russia "dominating" nor "controlling" Europe - but simply that there is no need for Europe to be lead and controlled by the USA, which shares factually no cultural nor historic connection with Europe. And is clearly a rival to Europe in regards to economic issues and does not share the US policy of imperialism or hegemony.

Therefore, that Europe incl. Russia would be clearly able to form their own USA independent - economical, political and cultural bloc.

Russia's then economy and population count, even until today would not be strong enough to dominate nor to control Europe anyway. As to how "harmonious" or positive this partnership would/could have been - we will never know, since the USA and Britain made sure it would never happen.

That Putin's mindset towards Europe had changed considerably after the NATO - Eastward-Expansion from 2004 onward is also undeniable. He somehow "errantly" believed that the German culture and society would still be that of e.g. 1910 - very likely inspired/influenced by the East-German culture and spirit (free of US influence) that he was very familiar with.