Which State Will Have the First Civil Disobedience?

[Auld Phart]

PS--you know you have really valid points when the shaming starts: ie, "acting like adults and responsible citizens". The more you have to shame, the more you make it clear that your arguments are thin

Pictured- Red Staters living without shame!

View attachment 313784
"Don't judge me!!!"

You see, there was a lot of crazy behavior before Government actually started doing it's job. What mystifies me is these people who stock up on bottled water. I'm reasonably sure that the Water Works are still going to be running. But here you have these people stocking up on toilet paper and bottled water.

Pictured- Red Staters living without shame!

They're not doing it in Blue states?

 

[SweetSue92]

Americans are a bunch of pussies. It’s a fucking virus. It’s less likely to kill than the flu. I haven’t changed anything in the way I live my life. Police state here we come.

I cannot understand why we are in a police state atmosphere right now. Over 99% of those that contract COVID-19 will recover from it. Folks, I am not minimizing this illness. COVID-19 is something to take seriously. It is highly contagious and spreads quickly. Yes, it causes respiratory failure and death in those most susceptible: the elderly and those with chronic health conditions including diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, and lung disorders. We may not even have enough respirators for those who have a serious case.


Coronavirus XI: What the Hell is Going On? The Fear Should Stop!

The cultural fear of death comes from our cultural death of Christianity.

I have another thread on that in the Religion/Ethics forum. There have always been atheists, non-Christians, secularists among us, as is their right. But our collective Christianity acted as something of a herd immunity right? And made us bolder, more courageous.

Now, the fear of death is pervasive. Again. Most Americans feel there is nothing beyond their own hide. So, they are afraid. Crap on a cracker, I would be too if I believed that.

I guess I’m different. I’m not afraid of dying. We all die. Get use to it.

Could be so. There are always outliers. But we are responding as a nation with a collective fear of dying

 

[Carl in Michigan]

So, I'm asking about civil disobedience by opening a restaurant that will make money.

The response that you suggested--and that Joe (who needs help) agreed with--is to burn that establishment to the ground, because Authority Was Not Obeyed.

No, they should burn them to the ground because they are ENDANGERING LIVES TO MAKE MONEY.

That's how we got into this mess to start with...

Then stop being a hypocrite. Stay out of the stores

 

[August West]

How does the OP`s pro-Coronavirus stand square with her pro-life stand? Once again these alleged pro-lifers out themselves as hypocrites.

 

[anynameyouwish]

What is wrong with acting like adults and responsible citizens? What is wrong with a society acting as one to protect one another from a pernicious virus?

"What is wrong with acting like adults and responsible citizens? What is wrong with a society acting as one to protect one another from a pernicious virus?"

that isn't the conservative way.....

the conservative way;
dog eat dog
every man for himself
i've got mine....now i'll take yours.....


THOSE are the conservative ways

 

[playtime]

Depends on a lot of things.

What they're not telling people in these states where they're just locking things down, and I'm in one of them, is that this will not reduce the number of cases and will likely prolong this. They're trying to buy time through these actions.

Once people realize that, and they will, we may see some pushback. If 3 weeks turns into 3 months and people are simply running out of money despite any government aid package, and defaulting on their mortgages and running into other problems what is now a fairly orderly situation may get ugly.

I don't see the patience for this even extending much to three weeks. I don't. And I'm in one of two counties in my state with the most cases. Three months? Not. A. Chance.

sooooooooooooooo.............. are you going on your ' hunch ' & ignoring actual scientists? anthony fauci's political affiliation - if he even has one - has served the NIAID since 1984 under several presidents (R) & (D). he's not sure how long this will go on because it is a new virus. i'm sure the parts of yer state without any confirmed cases have carriers that could very well kill gramma. why would you condone people ignoring directives to play it safe over stupidity & greed?

I'm going to give you one shot to be reasonable, but just one.

Every decision society makes is a risk v benefit analysis to the citizens of that society. "If we save even one person" is never a valid argument and we don't operate that way. If that were true we would all have been in quarantine in the 17-18 flu year, when we lost 60,000+ Americans. Or we would have undergone compulsory vaccinations. Neither happened.

We were told horrid things about ERs being overrun, hospitals over capacity and etc. That is not happening thus far. What IS happening is that the economy IS shutting down. If you don't understand that the economy actually feeds, houses, and clothes people--which is a real benefit--no one can talk to you.

^
'We were told horrid things about ERs being overrun, hospitals over capacity and etc. That is not happening thus far.'

we haven't peaked yet - that's why. we could head it off if people stay away from each other & slow the virus down in the amt of victims being infected. by doing that, we WON'T overwhelm the healthcare system. a lot of this could have & should have been done weeks ago - to determine who was infected & quarantine them to limit the exposure rate.

why are the medical professionals pleading for more supplies? why are they using the same gear & supplies over & over again? why are they told to use bandanas as face masks? it's not all due to hoarding. it's because people are now showing up sick because symptoms don't kick in until 10 - 14 days after contracting it ...

Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals
There are already critical shortages: A Bronx hospital is running out of ventilators. In Brooklyn, doctors are reusing masks.
By Brian M. Rosenthal, Joseph Goldstein and Michael Rothfeld

• Published March 20, 2020Updated March 21, 2020, 7:52 a.m. ET

New York State’s long-feared surge of coronavirus cases has begun, thrusting the medical system toward a crisis point.

In a startlingly quick ascent, officials reported on Friday that the state was closing in on 8,000 positive tests, about half the cases in the country. The number was 10 times higher than what was reported earlier in the week.
[...]
State officials have projected that the number of coronavirus cases in New York will peak in early May. Both the governor and Mayor Bill de Blasio have used wartime metaphors and analogies to paint a grim picture of what to expect. Officials have said the state would need to double its available hospital beds to 100,000 and could be short as many as 25,000 ventilators.

As it prepares for the worst-case projections, the state is asking retired health care workers to volunteer to help. The city is considering trying to turn the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in Manhattan into a makeshift hospital.

“The most striking part is the speed with which it has ramped up,” said Ben McVane, an emergency room doctor at Elmhurst Hospital Center in Queens. “It went from a small trickle of patients to a deluge of patients in our departments.”
Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals


Italy’s Coronavirus Nightmare Could Happen in U.S. Within Days or Weeks, Ex-CDC Chief Says
Nick Turse
March 21 2020, 12:27 a.m.
Italy’s Coronavirus Nightmare Could Happen in U.S. Within Days or Weeks, Ex-CDC Chief Says


hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

 

[playtime]

What is wrong with acting like adults and responsible citizens? What is wrong with a society acting as one to protect one another from a pernicious virus?

"What is wrong with acting like adults and responsible citizens? What is wrong with a society acting as one to protect one another from a pernicious virus?"

that isn't the conservative way.....

the conservative way;
dog eat dog
every man for himself
i've got mine....now i'll take yours.....


THOSE are the conservative ways

but sure as hell - they'll be screaming for their socialistic gov'ment stimulus check & will be the first ones to camp out in front of the vaccination centers when one is developed & make sure it's free of charge.

 

[Gdjjr]

What is wrong with acting like adults and responsible citizens? What is wrong with a society acting as one to protect one another from a pernicious virus?

Nothing is wrong with it as long as its voluntary- when force is used it's no longer "civil".

 

[SweetSue92]

Depends on a lot of things.

What they're not telling people in these states where they're just locking things down, and I'm in one of them, is that this will not reduce the number of cases and will likely prolong this. They're trying to buy time through these actions.

Once people realize that, and they will, we may see some pushback. If 3 weeks turns into 3 months and people are simply running out of money despite any government aid package, and defaulting on their mortgages and running into other problems what is now a fairly orderly situation may get ugly.

I don't see the patience for this even extending much to three weeks. I don't. And I'm in one of two counties in my state with the most cases. Three months? Not. A. Chance.

sooooooooooooooo.............. are you going on your ' hunch ' & ignoring actual scientists? anthony fauci's political affiliation - if he even has one - has served the NIAID since 1984 under several presidents (R) & (D). he's not sure how long this will go on because it is a new virus. i'm sure the parts of yer state without any confirmed cases have carriers that could very well kill gramma. why would you condone people ignoring directives to play it safe over stupidity & greed?

I'm going to give you one shot to be reasonable, but just one.

Every decision society makes is a risk v benefit analysis to the citizens of that society. "If we save even one person" is never a valid argument and we don't operate that way. If that were true we would all have been in quarantine in the 17-18 flu year, when we lost 60,000+ Americans. Or we would have undergone compulsory vaccinations. Neither happened.

We were told horrid things about ERs being overrun, hospitals over capacity and etc. That is not happening thus far. What IS happening is that the economy IS shutting down. If you don't understand that the economy actually feeds, houses, and clothes people--which is a real benefit--no one can talk to you.

^
'We were told horrid things about ERs being overrun, hospitals over capacity and etc. That is not happening thus far.'

we haven't peaked yet - that's why. we could head it off if people stay away from each other & slow the virus down in the amt of victims being infected. by doing that, we WON'T overwhelm the healthcare system. a lot of this could have & should have been done weeks ago - to determine who was infected & quarantine them to limit the exposure rate.

why are the medical professionals pleading for more supplies? why are they using the same gear & supplies over & over again? why are they told to use bandanas as face masks? it's not all due to hoarding. it's because people are now showing up sick because symptoms don't kick in until 10 - 14 days after contracting it ...

Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals
There are already critical shortages: A Bronx hospital is running out of ventilators. In Brooklyn, doctors are reusing masks.
By Brian M. Rosenthal, Joseph Goldstein and Michael Rothfeld

• Published March 20, 2020Updated March 21, 2020, 7:52 a.m. ET

New York State’s long-feared surge of coronavirus cases has begun, thrusting the medical system toward a crisis point.

In a startlingly quick ascent, officials reported on Friday that the state was closing in on 8,000 positive tests, about half the cases in the country. The number was 10 times higher than what was reported earlier in the week.
[...]
State officials have projected that the number of coronavirus cases in New York will peak in early May. Both the governor and Mayor Bill de Blasio have used wartime metaphors and analogies to paint a grim picture of what to expect. Officials have said the state would need to double its available hospital beds to 100,000 and could be short as many as 25,000 ventilators.

As it prepares for the worst-case projections, the state is asking retired health care workers to volunteer to help. The city is considering trying to turn the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in Manhattan into a makeshift hospital.

“The most striking part is the speed with which it has ramped up,” said Ben McVane, an emergency room doctor at Elmhurst Hospital Center in Queens. “It went from a small trickle of patients to a deluge of patients in our departments.”
Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals


Italy’s Coronavirus Nightmare Could Happen in U.S. Within Days or Weeks, Ex-CDC Chief Says
Nick Turse
March 21 2020, 12:27 a.m.
Italy’s Coronavirus Nightmare Could Happen in U.S. Within Days or Weeks, Ex-CDC Chief Says


hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

You have a case for NYC, where people live in shoeboxes basically on top of each other. Notice I wasn't talking about that in my OP. I was talking about remote places where there are NO cases of COVID, but where the gov have still shut down all the restaurants/bars in the state.

Address the OP, not what I didn't say.

 

[Manonthestreet]

I would have been a border jumper today if the Gov had closed the state. Have high end air sanitizer for daughter in Iowa.

 

[Gdjjr]

You see, there was a lot of crazy behavior before Government actually started doing it's job.

Really? Give us your prescription for stopping or even slowing down the flu. You and that Rightwinger clown get together and present the readers of this forum exact, specific steps you would have done.

 

[August West]

What is wrong with acting like adults and responsible citizens? What is wrong with a society acting as one to protect one another from a pernicious virus?

Nothing is wrong with it as long as its voluntary- when force is used it's no longer "civil".

If it`s voluntary it`s of no value. A person should be relieved of having to make the decision whether or not to spread the virus around. Maybe it`s just me but I`m 100% against infecting more people than necessary.
Typhoid Mary | historical figure

 

[Gdjjr]

If it`s voluntary it`s of no value. A person should be relieved of having to make the decision whether or not to spread the virus around.

Force is immoral regardless of the excuse- using it to fight a flu strain because one *might* get sick is pandering to the less than mentally competent who desire to be told what to do when for whom and *feel* they know best for everyone and don't mind, in some cases desire, that *someone* (not them of course), force everyone to obey their fears.
Excuses are like asses. Everybody has one some stink worse than others.

 

[playtime]

Depends on a lot of things.

What they're not telling people in these states where they're just locking things down, and I'm in one of them, is that this will not reduce the number of cases and will likely prolong this. They're trying to buy time through these actions.

Once people realize that, and they will, we may see some pushback. If 3 weeks turns into 3 months and people are simply running out of money despite any government aid package, and defaulting on their mortgages and running into other problems what is now a fairly orderly situation may get ugly.

I don't see the patience for this even extending much to three weeks. I don't. And I'm in one of two counties in my state with the most cases. Three months? Not. A. Chance.

sooooooooooooooo.............. are you going on your ' hunch ' & ignoring actual scientists? anthony fauci's political affiliation - if he even has one - has served the NIAID since 1984 under several presidents (R) & (D). he's not sure how long this will go on because it is a new virus. i'm sure the parts of yer state without any confirmed cases have carriers that could very well kill gramma. why would you condone people ignoring directives to play it safe over stupidity & greed?

I'm going to give you one shot to be reasonable, but just one.

Every decision society makes is a risk v benefit analysis to the citizens of that society. "If we save even one person" is never a valid argument and we don't operate that way. If that were true we would all have been in quarantine in the 17-18 flu year, when we lost 60,000+ Americans. Or we would have undergone compulsory vaccinations. Neither happened.

We were told horrid things about ERs being overrun, hospitals over capacity and etc. That is not happening thus far. What IS happening is that the economy IS shutting down. If you don't understand that the economy actually feeds, houses, and clothes people--which is a real benefit--no one can talk to you.

^
'We were told horrid things about ERs being overrun, hospitals over capacity and etc. That is not happening thus far.'

we haven't peaked yet - that's why. we could head it off if people stay away from each other & slow the virus down in the amt of victims being infected. by doing that, we WON'T overwhelm the healthcare system. a lot of this could have & should have been done weeks ago - to determine who was infected & quarantine them to limit the exposure rate.

why are the medical professionals pleading for more supplies? why are they using the same gear & supplies over & over again? why are they told to use bandanas as face masks? it's not all due to hoarding. it's because people are now showing up sick because symptoms don't kick in until 10 - 14 days after contracting it ...

Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals
There are already critical shortages: A Bronx hospital is running out of ventilators. In Brooklyn, doctors are reusing masks.
By Brian M. Rosenthal, Joseph Goldstein and Michael Rothfeld

• Published March 20, 2020Updated March 21, 2020, 7:52 a.m. ET

New York State’s long-feared surge of coronavirus cases has begun, thrusting the medical system toward a crisis point.

In a startlingly quick ascent, officials reported on Friday that the state was closing in on 8,000 positive tests, about half the cases in the country. The number was 10 times higher than what was reported earlier in the week.
[...]
State officials have projected that the number of coronavirus cases in New York will peak in early May. Both the governor and Mayor Bill de Blasio have used wartime metaphors and analogies to paint a grim picture of what to expect. Officials have said the state would need to double its available hospital beds to 100,000 and could be short as many as 25,000 ventilators.

As it prepares for the worst-case projections, the state is asking retired health care workers to volunteer to help. The city is considering trying to turn the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in Manhattan into a makeshift hospital.

“The most striking part is the speed with which it has ramped up,” said Ben McVane, an emergency room doctor at Elmhurst Hospital Center in Queens. “It went from a small trickle of patients to a deluge of patients in our departments.”
Coronavirus in N.Y.: ‘Deluge’ of Cases Begins Hitting Hospitals


Italy’s Coronavirus Nightmare Could Happen in U.S. Within Days or Weeks, Ex-CDC Chief Says
Nick Turse
March 21 2020, 12:27 a.m.
Italy’s Coronavirus Nightmare Could Happen in U.S. Within Days or Weeks, Ex-CDC Chief Says


hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

You have a case for NYC, where people live in shoeboxes basically on top of each other. Notice I wasn't talking about that in my OP. I was talking about remote places where there are NO cases of COVID, but where the gov have still shut down all the restaurants/bars in the state.

Address the OP, not what I didn't say.

i did address what you said. i said there aren't any CONFIRMED cases in the area you are talking about. either people don't realize what they have or are asymptomatic or the incubation period hasn't reared their ugly symptoms yet. more people are saying they don't know HOW they got it - well SOMEBODY is giving it to them. & all it takes are close clusters of people to get it going. why do you think NYC et al are getting hit hard?

 

[Gdjjr]

well SOMEBODY is giving it to them.

Somebody? It's an airborne virus. It could come from anywhere. Just like ANY virus.
BTW, it's been said that high temp and high humidity will help curb it- well, we're coming into that time of year- that said, the human body temp is 98.6 with a lot of water- just sayin-

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

The article linked below contains a list of states that have closed bars and restaurants. In my state, there is an entire region unaffected by Coronavirus--zero reported cases. Who's going to be the first restaurant/bar owner in that portion of the state--or ANY state--to say screw it and open their doors to a flood of customers?

I say one week, ten days at the outside. When one does, other owners in other states will do the same, especially in areas with no Coronavirus. And once that starts, it will be America saying, screw you, Daddy Government. We are Open for Business.

Which states have closed restaurants and bars due to coronavirus?

None.....

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

What is wrong with acting like adults and responsible citizens? What is wrong with a society acting as one to protect one another from a pernicious virus?

PS--you know you have really valid points when the shaming starts: ie, "acting like adults and responsible citizens". The more you have to shame, the more you make it clear that your arguments are thin

I hope this isn't a Trump supporter saying this.......that would be ironic...and adorable....

 

[playtime]

well SOMEBODY is giving it to them.

Somebody? It's an airborne virus. It could come from anywhere. Just like ANY virus.
BTW, it's been said that high temp and high humidity will help curb it- well, we're coming into that time of year- that said, the human body temp is 98.6 with a lot of water- just sayin-

airborne from where? SOMEBODY'S sneeze or cough. the virus can live on surfaces that have been coughed on sneezed on or touched by someone who didn't wash their hands for up to 3 days. & nobody knows whether warm temps will curb it cause this is a brand new virus but lest ye ferget - the 1918 flu was just like that. cases dwindled during the warmer months then became so numerous when autumn & winter came around.

 

[playtime]

Why we’re not overreacting to the coronavirus, in one chart
Italy tried to stem its outbreak, belatedly. We’re on the same course.
By Kelsey Piper and Christina Animashaun Mar 20, 2020, 12:20pm EDT

Why we’re not overreacting to the coronavirus, in one chart

 

[Hellbilly]

The article linked below contains a list of states that have closed bars and restaurants. In my state, there is an entire region unaffected by Coronavirus--zero reported cases. Who's going to be the first restaurant/bar owner in that portion of the state--or ANY state--to say screw it and open their doors to a flood of customers?

I say one week, ten days at the outside. When one does, other owners in other states will do the same, especially in areas with no Coronavirus. And once that starts, it will be America saying, screw you, Daddy Government. We are Open for Business.

Which states have closed restaurants and bars due to coronavirus?

Texas.