Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Hollie]

I'm curious as to how you see this as progress. It seems to be only the re-wording of existing belief -- that is: the Jewish people should be permitted to practice their religious faith and not be persecuted for it, as long as the Jewish people have no rights to the totality and fullness of human rights including the rights to self-identity and national self-expression. In fact, it cements the idea that the fullness of human rights must denied to the Jewish people.

Where did you get all that?

From the article you posted. If you have evidence that Hamas embraces the idea of Jewish rights to a national self-expression on ancestral territory -- please bring it.

Where do they say that they deny anyone their rights.

I did get a chuckle from the nonsense that was a part of the Death Cult's charter.

"...repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship (Articles 8 and 9)"

I'm guessing that people like you simply choose to ignore the intolerance, immoderation, and imposition of oppression based upon religion that defines the Islamist world.

Can you truly read the putrid bile of the Hamas charter and so sweepingly ignore the reality of Islamic fascism?

I don't understand your rant. Where do you get that stuff?

I was certain you would scurry off.

 

[Hollie]

They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.

Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?

and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship

Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor

I'm guessing that people like you simply choose to ignore the intolerance, immoderation, and imposition of oppression based upon religion that defines the Islamist world.

 

[P F Tinmore]

They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.

Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?

and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship

Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor

There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".

All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?

 

[Hollie]

They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.

Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?

and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship

Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor

There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".

All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?

I have no reason to believe you know any "Pal'istanians".

Secondly, it is the Islamic terrorists in Hamas who "govern" the retrograde Islamic terrorist enclave called Gaza'istan.

It was arabs-moslems posing as Pal'istanians who elected Hamas into office. Your taqiyya needs a shiny new veneer of dismissed as bunk.

 

[Shusha]

They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.

Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?

and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship

Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor

There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".

All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?

Hamas' new charter, what we know of it, does not call for equal rights. There are no new ideas there. They are just changing the language from Jew to Zionist. Meaning hasn't changed.

Equal rights would be a recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination and sovereignty same as the Palestinian right.

 

[P F Tinmore]

They protect the Palestinian's rights. Nobody has the right to violate the rights of others. So I don't get your point.

Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?

and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship

Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor

There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".

All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?

Hamas' new charter, what we know of it, does not call for equal rights. There are no new ideas there. They are just changing the language from Jew to Zionist. Meaning hasn't changed.

Equal rights would be a recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination and sovereignty same as the Palestinian right.

Do colonial settlers have rights to self-determination and sovereignty?

Good question. Look it up and post some links.

 

[fanger]

The Hamas charter is simply that of a political party. It is not a state charter, or a declaration of statehood direction or a legally binding document on the State of Palestine

 

[P F Tinmore]

Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?

and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship

Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor

There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".

All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?

Hamas' new charter, what we know of it, does not call for equal rights. There are no new ideas there. They are just changing the language from Jew to Zionist. Meaning hasn't changed.

Equal rights would be a recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination and sovereignty same as the Palestinian right.

Do colonial settlers have rights to self-determination and sovereignty?

Good question. Look it up and post some links.

When the concept of self-determination was first evoked during the First World War, it was taken to mean the right of a people to determine its sovereignty over the region where it is living.

The right to self-determination is denied in the presence of the following:
• When population groups sharing a common existence in their own region are subjected to the domination of an alien power, be it military or one pertaining to another state, or a foreign colonialist power living in the same region;

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

 

[Shusha]

Do colonial settlers have rights to self-determination and sovereignty?

Good question. Look it up and post some links.

Well, in point of fact they DO have those historical rights. You DO live in the US, do you not?

But again, the Jewish people returning to their ancestral homeland are NOT colonial settlers. The Jewish people originated on that land, they came from that land, they were removed from that land.

You posted a video yesterday or the day before which whined that the Palestinians in the Diaspora were not being considered and that they must be. The Jewish people in the Diapsora are no different.

 

[Hollie]

Where are they also recognizing (and protecting) Jewish rights?

and repeatedly emphasizes Islam and Hamas’ tolerance, moderation and opposition to all forms of oppression, including that based on religion, ethnicity, gender or citizenship

Leaked Hamas charter illustrates movement’s maturation as a political actor

There is a difference between "I will tolerate you and won't actively oppress you" and "I recognize the fullness of your rights as equal to mine".

All of the Palestinians I know call for equal rights. What are you talking about?

Hamas' new charter, what we know of it, does not call for equal rights. There are no new ideas there. They are just changing the language from Jew to Zionist. Meaning hasn't changed.

Equal rights would be a recognition of Jewish rights to self-determination and sovereignty same as the Palestinian right.

Do colonial settlers have rights to self-determination and sovereignty?

Good question. Look it up and post some links.

Yes, you should do that. The Ottoman Turks were the colonial settlers who invaded and colonized the geographic area you falsely believe to be your invented "country of Pally'land".

 

[Shusha]

When the concept of self-determination was first evoked during the First World War, it was taken to mean the right of a people to determine its sovereignty over the region where it is living.

The right to self-determination is denied in the presence of the following:
• When population groups sharing a common existence in their own region are subjected to the domination of an alien power, be it military or one pertaining to another state, or a foreign colonialist power living in the same region;

The Jewish people are not an alien power. They are an indigenous peoples who have the exact same rights to sovereignty over the region.

 

[montelatici]

When the concept of self-determination was first evoked during the First World War, it was taken to mean the right of a people to determine its sovereignty over the region where it is living.

The right to self-determination is denied in the presence of the following:
• When population groups sharing a common existence in their own region are subjected to the domination of an alien power, be it military or one pertaining to another state, or a foreign colonialist power living in the same region;

The Jewish people are not an alien power. They are an indigenous peoples who have the exact same rights to sovereignty over the region.

The Zionists were Europeans, they were not indigenous to Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

Also, from your link:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

 

[montelatici]

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

Also, from your link:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

Also, from your link:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Well no. The Zionist Jews were inhabitants of Europe. They were colonists planning to evict the native and indigenous people. Their homelands were in Europe, not Palestine.

 

[Hollie]

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

Also, from your link:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

Also, from your link:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Well no. The Zionist Jews were inhabitants of Europe. They were colonists planning to evict the native and indigenous people. Their homelands were in Europe, not Palestine.

Well, similarly, the Turk invaders and the European xtian Crusaders were colonists planning to evict the competing religions. Your phony outrage is meant to appeal to your Jew hatreds while ignoring the true colonists / invaders.

 

[Hollie]

When the concept of self-determination was first evoked during the First World War, it was taken to mean the right of a people to determine its sovereignty over the region where it is living.

The right to self-determination is denied in the presence of the following:
• When population groups sharing a common existence in their own region are subjected to the domination of an alien power, be it military or one pertaining to another state, or a foreign colonialist power living in the same region;

The Jewish people are not an alien power. They are an indigenous peoples who have the exact same rights to sovereignty over the region.

The Zionists were Europeans, they were not indigenous to Palestine.

The xtian Crusaders were European. That might suggest they were invaders, not indigenous to your invented "country of Pally'land"

 

[P F Tinmore]

And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Links?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

Also, from your link:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

Also, from your link:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Well no. The Zionist Jews were inhabitants of Europe. They were colonists planning to evict the native and indigenous people. Their homelands were in Europe, not Palestine.

The Jewish homeland was never Europe with its pogroms and blood libels and inquisitions and holocausts. And even here in America, which Jews called the "goldene medina" (golden country), the Italian-American hoodlums in Bensonhurst told my dad, "Go back to Palestine!"

 

[Shusha]

And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Links?

Don't be daft. IF it applies to one group, it applies equally to the other. That was my point.

But if you really need proof that resolutions support the rights of the Jewish people to self-determination start with this one, which the Palestinians haven't managed to achieve yet, after a hundred years:

The General Assembly,

Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,

1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;

2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.


Now, don't waste our time with such silly requests for links.

 

[montelatici]

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

Also, from your link:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>Settlements and the Palestinian Right to Self-Determination</b>

Also, from your link:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of an Arab Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Palestinians be considered merely refugees and war victims, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

If that is true, then the same is true for the Jewish people:

When the UN passed a resolution calling for the partition of Palestine, it recognized the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, as the partition plan allows for the establishment of a Jewish Palestinian state — a right which stands to this day. And lest the Jewish peoples be considered merely refugees and settlers, the international body passed several resolutions securing them their right to return to their homeland and to determine themselves.

Well no. The Zionist Jews were inhabitants of Europe. They were colonists planning to evict the native and indigenous people. Their homelands were in Europe, not Palestine.

The Jewish homeland was never Europe with its pogroms and blood libels and inquisitions and holocausts. And even here in America, which Jews called the "goldene medina" (golden country), the Italian-American hoodlums in Bensonhurst told my dad, "Go back to Palestine!"

Protestants and Catholics in Europe were subject to blood libels, pogroms and inquisitions depending on where they lived. They remained European, just as Europeans that practiced Judaism. Europeans did not have a homeland in Palestine.