Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Sixties Fan]

Latest poll shows more than half of Palestinians support return to terror intifada ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[P F Tinmore]

What “others” shall we hold accountable? “Others” from 800 years ago?

I really haven’t read any current accounts of “others” who are world wide suicide bombers, mass murderers, etc. as a religious motivation.

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Also, try to stick to what I actually say. My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0

Hmmm!

I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?

I read a long time ago that terrorist attacks were more about occupation than religion. Look at the region: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt.

Which ones have terrorist attacks? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.

Which ones are occupied? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

So you are calling a world religion, encompassing many different cultures a "unique ideology of evil" with a "unique practice of evil"?

What is unique?

It is very difficult to express this in an inherently short format. But I start with ideology. Islam, like all religions, has a unique ideology. Some ideologies are inherently, imo, more easily bent to extremism than others.

The ideology that G-d punishes humanity with eternal agony after physical death if they do not adopt a certain set of beliefs. Or conversely, that G-d rewards humanity with the proverbial 72 virgins for adopting certain beliefs and performing certain actions. Or even the simple idea of cosmic battle of good vs. evil. Ideology around death, sacrifice, martyrdom.

Ok...that would seem to fit a number of religions...

Well, no, actually. Only one or two. But either way, these were only examples.

The point being that holding a particular ideology, can lend itself easier to extremism. For example, if you believe that killing "other" will lead to a reward in an afterlife, you might be far more likely to kill people than if you believed that killing "other" will lead to eternal agony in an afterlife.

Its an ideology which may lead to a practice of evil (assuming we agree killing people is evil).

 

[Shusha]

I would honestly like to take it up with you in the "Bull Ring" - a defined topic, with just you and I discussing it. Then when we are done, and agree, disagree, agree to disagree - it's open to the peanut gallery.

I'd be down for that. Define the topic.

 

[Shusha]

...shouldn't we be asking instead - why is there so much violence coming out of the Islamic world now? AND how do people feel about it? AND what can they do about it?

We should indeed be asking why there is so much violence coming out of the Islamic world now.

 

[Hollie]

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Also, try to stick to what I actually say. My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0

Hmmm!

I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?

I read a long time ago that terrorist attacks were more about occupation than religion. Look at the region: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt.

Which ones have terrorist attacks? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.

Which ones are occupied? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.

I read a long time ago that Islamic terrorist attacks were about religion which is the ideology. Look at the predominant religion of the Islamic Middle East.

 

[Hollie]

And the Peaceful Inner Struggle rolls on.



Exclusive: Hamas plots attacks on Israel from Turkey as Erdogan turns blind eye

Turkey is allowing senior Hamas operatives to plot attacks against Israel from Istanbul, The Telegraph can disclose, as President Recep Tayyip Erdogan plays host to the terrorist group’s leaders.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Also, try to stick to what I actually say. My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0

Hmmm!

I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?

I read a long time ago that terrorist attacks were more about occupation than religion. Look at the region: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt.

Which ones have terrorist attacks? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.

Which ones are occupied? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.

There are terror attacks by Muslims that kill Christian Copts, from time to time, in Egypt. They are usually not reported in the regular news media. And this wouldn't concern you because they don't involve Israelis or Jews.

As for Syria, there was a vicious civil war that lasted for years and killed hundreds of thousands before America and Russia ever got involved in it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Ah...I see...you keep shifting the goal posts. There are only a handful Islamic Extremist groups that operate on a world terrorism stage so that pretty much limits 9t - most are involved in local conflicts. Mass murderers...hell...where do we start? The Buddhist genocide of the Rohinga? Kosovo? Drug cartels in Mexico? (some consider drugs religious )

The problem is you attribute atrocities by individuals and terrorist groups as representative of the whole. There are over 1.8 billion muslims. How many are involved in terrorism? If we go by your claims - the world would be a bloodbath. It isn't.

Your little part of the Islamic world sure is a bloodbath. What’s the body count in Iraq and Syria over the past 5 years?

I can understand you take offense at anyone criticizing your politico-religious ideology but to suggest that “only a handful of Islamic terrorist groups” is just nonsensical.

Here’s a list of US designated foreign terrorist groups. You will notice that one particular politico-religious ideology has an overwhelming representation.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/IF10613.pdf

What you want to ignore is that Islamic terrorist franchises get ideological and financial support from the wider Islamist community. Not all people have to actually commit a particular act to approve of it. I’m not likely to dismiss the motivations that compel the “tiny minority of violet extremists” to fly commercial airliners into buildings, to bomb bus and subway trains and to slaughter innocent people out for an evening’s meal at a restaurant. That sort of argumentation is merely an attempt to divest oneself of any responsibility from the consequences of the ideology.

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Also, try to stick to what I actually say. My statement was concerning Islamic extremist groups involved in world wide bombings (as you put it). Most are actors in local conflicts.

Yup. 1.5 billion or more Muslims, polls showing weak support for extremist violence...how many did you say are involved in extremism?

Yes...blood bath in Iraq. What started that hmm?

Number of suicide bombings in Iraq before the US invasion. - 0

Hmmm!

I think Hollie thinks the US invasion of Iraq is a conspiracy theory?

I read a long time ago that terrorist attacks were more about occupation than religion. Look at the region: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, and Egypt.

Which ones have terrorist attacks? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.

Which ones are occupied? Syria, Iraq, and Palestine.

Are any Jews in Israel protected persons?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yuval Segev, Army Radio’s reporter covering the police and Jerusalem, on Monday night tweeted that a PA resident was arrested on suspicion of breaking into the Jewish cemetery on Mount Olives and using old tombstones to build a public staircase in his village.


https://twitter.com/segev_yuval


The investigation was launched following a complaint from City Councilman Arieh King. The suspect denies the charges.

One Segev follower, Shai Lourie, tweeted that if such a thing had happened in Europe it would have opened all the news editions, but on Mount Olives it barely generates a yawn.

During the Jordanian rule (1948-1967), the Mount Olives Jewish cemetery suffered systematic damage to gravestones and tombs. As early as the end of 1949, Israeli observers stationed on Mount Zion reported that Arab residents began uprooting tombstones.

In 1954, the Israeli government filed a formal complaint with the UN General Assembly regarding the further destruction of graves and plowing in the area. In the late 1950s, the Jordanian army used tombstones to build military camps.


(full article online)

PA Arab Used Jewish Gravestones to Build Public Staircase

 

[Coyote]

So you are calling a world religion, encompassing many different cultures a "unique ideology of evil" with a "unique practice of evil"?

What is unique?

It is very difficult to express this in an inherently short format. But I start with ideology. Islam, like all religions, has a unique ideology. Some ideologies are inherently, imo, more easily bent to extremism than others.

The ideology that G-d punishes humanity with eternal agony after physical death if they do not adopt a certain set of beliefs. Or conversely, that G-d rewards humanity with the proverbial 72 virgins for adopting certain beliefs and performing certain actions. Or even the simple idea of cosmic battle of good vs. evil. Ideology around death, sacrifice, martyrdom.

Ok...that would seem to fit a number of religions...

Well, no, actually. Only one or two. But either way, these were only examples.

The point being that holding a particular ideology, can lend itself easier to extremism. For example, if you believe that killing "other" will lead to a reward in an afterlife, you might be far more likely to kill people than if you believed that killing "other" will lead to eternal agony in an afterlife.

Its an ideology which may lead to a practice of evil (assuming we agree killing people is evil).

Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's. They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation. Not sure about other faiths.

 

[Shusha]

Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's. They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation. Not sure about other faiths.

1. This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
2. I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together. The ideology is very different in each.
3. There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
4. You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
5. You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.

 

[Hollie]

It is a worthy sentiment expressed by Adele Raemer but the facts of Islamic ideology contradict any notion of peaceable, equitable existence with Hamas. At no time in Islamist history have non-Moslems been treated as equals by Moslems. There simply is nothing in Islamic ideology or Islamic societal norms that even begins to approach Western standards of equality, tolerance, personal freedoms and rule of law.




Gaza border resident to UN: Peace will come when Hamas stops terror

Peace can only come to Israel’s south once Hamas allows Gazans to thrive instead of investing solely in terrorism, Adele Raemer, a resident of Kibbutz Nirim, told the UN Security Council in its periodic hearing on the Middle East on Wednesday.

Raemer, the first Israeli from near the Gaza border to address the Security Council, did so at the invitation of US Ambassador to the UN Kelly Craft, who is serving as president of the Security Council this month.

 

[rylah]

You really are one of the most dishonest posters I've run across here in zeal to personally attack. It would probably be better to just ignore you but I'll attempt a reasonable response.

This shows quiet the desperation when dealing with facts.
If you pay close attention to the line of our conversation here, several pages back when we talked about the case about the Jewish teenager, who you kept claiming committed a crime which he was acquitted from, you'll see that all I brought was facts.

Call them dishonest, take them personally or totally ignore them,
changes nothing.

So what is your point?

First, I was talking about reactions around the world to the 9/11 attack and how that attack was condemned.

Your poll from 2011 shows dropping support for bin Laden himself...
what does it say about how people felt about the actual attack? I can find and link to condemnations and offers of help world wide after the attack - including from the Muslim world if that is required. Do you have any polls that actually reflect how people felt about the attack?

What people felt... condemnations from the Muslim Brotherhood on TV...

Does it change something,
do you even realize the magnitude of the facts you've just brought?

This is from Wikipedia but it links to the actual Pew Polls (it's just easier to insert it this way) - this is what people felt about suicide bombings (the act itself) between 2006 - 2013:


Muslim attitudes toward terrorism - Wikipedia
Suicide bombings[edit]
In a 2006 Pew poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[49]

In Europe[edit]

• (35 vs 64) 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (24 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in the UK believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 15% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (13 vs 83) 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 7% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (27 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 16% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.

In mainly Muslim countries[edit]

• (53 vs 45) 45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 28% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (26 vs 61) 61% of Muslims in Turkey believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 17% thought it could be justified often or sometimes
• (57 vs 43) 43% of Muslims in Jordan believed it could never be justified, 28% believed it could be justified rarely, 29% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (69 vs 28) 28% of Muslims in Nigeria believed it could never be justified, 23% believed it could be justified rarely, 46% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (22 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Pakistan believed it could never be justified, 8% believed it could be justified rarely, 14% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.
• (28 vs 71) 71% of Muslims in Indonesia believed it could never be justified, 18% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% thought it could be justified often or sometimes.

In 2007, 17% of Muslims in Palestinian territories believed it could rarely or never be justified, and 70% thought it could be justified sometimes or often.[50] In comparison, 32% stated in 2014 it was never justified, while 13% said it was rarely justified, 46% said it is often or sometimes justified.[51] A 2011 report by Pew Research stated that 81% of American Muslim thought it was never justified, 5% said rarely, 7% sometimes and 1% often.[52]

In a 2013 poll, 91% of Muslims in Iraq said suicide bombings to defend Islam from enemies could never/rarely be justified while 7% said it was often/sometimes. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, 96% said it was never/rarely justified while 3% said often/sometimes. In Albania, 93% said it was never/rarely justified while 6% said often/sometimes. In Russia, 90% said never/rarely while 4% said often/sometimes. In Kosovo, 82% said it was never/rarely justified while 11% said often/sometimes. In Azerbaijan, 96% said it was never/rarely while 1% said often/sometimes. In Tajikistan, 85% said never/rarely while 3% said often/sometimes. In Kazakhstan, 95% said never/rarely while 2% said often/sometimes. In Kyrygztsan, 82% said never/rarely while 10% said often/sometimes. In Afghanistan, 58% said never/rarely and 39% often/sometimes. In Morocco, 74% said never/sometimes and 9% said often/sometimes.[53]

A 2014 Pew poll showed that support for suicide bombings had fallen to a great degree in Muslim-majority nations over the last decade:[54]

• (46 vs 45) In Lebanon, 45% it could never justified, 25% rarely and 29% said often/sometimes.
• (59 vs 38) In Egypt, 38% said it could never be justified, 35% rarely while 24% said often/sometimes.
• (29 vs 58) In Turkey, 58% said never, 11% rarely while 18% said often/sometimes.
• (44 vs 55) In Jordan, 55% said never, 29% rarely while 15% said often/sometimes.
• (8 vs 90) In Tunisia, 90% said never, 3% rarely while 5% said often/sometimes.
• (61 vs 33) In Bangladesh, 33% said never, 14% rarely and 47% said often/sometimes.
• (33 vs 60) In Malaysia, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 18% often/sometimes.
• (22 vs 76) In Indonesia, 76% said never, 13% rarely and 9% often/sometimes.
• (7 vs 83) In Pakistan, 83% said never, 4% rarely and 3% often/sometimes.
• (34 vs 60) In Nigeria, 60% said never, 15% rarely and 19% often/sometimes.
• (31 vs 56) In Senegal, 56% said never, 16% rarely and 15% often/sometimes.

In mostly non-Muslim nations:

• (45 vs 50) In Tanzania, 50% said never, 19% said rarely and 26% said often/sometimes.
• (46 vs 48) In Israel, 48% said never, 30% rarely and 16% said often/sometimes.

Let's examine:

• Islam is the 2nd largest religious group in the world, there're 1.8 billion Muslims .
• An average of 70% against and 30% in support for suicide bombing

That's 540 million Muslims worldwide who support suicide bombings.

How many people are there in whole of US?
Now what is interesting is that after going through a strict system of screening at immigration, and life in a free society, the support for suicide bombing in the US among the Muslim community reduced only by 10%.


This extensive PEW poll shows the most fundamentalist Muslim societies and their views on enforcement of Sharia, honor killings, and capital punishment for converting out of Islam:

Pew research: The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society

The Arabs in Gaza and Judea are among the most fundamentalist Islamists.
Without any correlation to recent history of conquests and defeats, Muslim or non-Muslim rule.

It also "just" happens, that the Palestinian cause is the fulfillment of the imperialist goal of an exclusive Muslim domination over the entire middle east.

To sum it up:

Israelis know full well who they're dealing with, without the need for Pew polls.
Media coverage for Islamist apologists won't change the facts, neither you shoveling their PC bs about the "poor peaceful" 70% who're the victims for being associated with the 30% of the savages in their community, but that still prevents nothing for the later.

Still, the only effective preventive force against the Islamist ideology is reached in an environment of a non-Muslim rule. Either through successful military campaign and correct security measures, or reformation of their faith, only in close proximity to other functional societies who's culture challenges their core religious tenants.

Only external, or non-Muslim force and environment are effective, the 70% are at large passive and ineffective in preventing the spread of the Islamist ideology.

 

[rylah]

Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's. They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation. Not sure about other faiths.

1. This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
2. I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together. The ideology is very different in each.
3. There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
4. You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
5. You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.

Exactly, I know of only 2 Abrahamic faiths that are 'major world religions'.
The original one is less than 1% of the world's population, and always kept small.

The mere combination 'holy-warrior' or 'holy-war' represent duality inherit in all cultures that were influenced by Judaism, but is entirely foreign to Jewish thought.

Roughly speaking, Christianity inherited from Judaism a lenience towards the mercy measure, while Islam is extremely on the judgement side.

With Judaism, aside from being the original, its the sane middle in its correct balance,
and without the push to convert or conquer the entire world. At its core It has its set cultural boundaries in which it was intended to apply, a thing the other two lack.

Maybe this is the key to understanding those 'major world religions' from the perspective of political ideology along the last 2,000 years of history.

 

[Shusha]

Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's. They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation. Not sure about other faiths.

1. This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
2. I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together. The ideology is very different in each.
3. There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
4. You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
5. You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.

Exactly, I know of only 2 Abrahamic faiths that are 'major world religions'.
The original one is less than 1% of the world's population, and always kept small.

The mere combination 'holy-warrior' or 'holy-war' represent duality inherit in all cultures that were influenced by Judaism, but is entirely foreign to Jewish thought.

Roughly speaking, Christianity inherited from Judaism a lenience towards the mercy measure, while Islam is extremely on the judgement side.

With Judaism, aside from being the original, its the sane middle in its correct balance,
and without the push to convert or conquer the entire world. At its core It has its set cultural boundaries in which it was intended to apply, a thing the other two lack.

Maybe this is the key to understanding those 'major world religions' from the perspective of political ideology along the last 2,000 years of history.

Yes! Thank you. (and the idea of Judaism as a "world religion" seems more than a little odd to me.)

There are a number of ideas which are found in Xtianity and Islam which are foreign to Judaism. Possibly claimed to be sourced from the Jewish texts, but with such a foreign worldview that it is unrelatable to Judaism. There are also a number of ideas which seem similar but are understood in very different ways.

As examples (in no particular order):

grace vs. forgiveness vs. teshuvah

heaven/hell vs. the world to come

reward/punishment vs. repair of the world

the purpose of sacrifice

the need for salvation vs. the labour of performing mitzvot


To bring it back to why this matters. If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a heaven, and that a place in that heaven is dependent on holding certain beliefs and that reward in heaven is merited by certain actions, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief that the afterlife is more or less irrelevant. If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a hell and all people who hold the the "wrong" beliefs or perform the "wrong" actions, will suffer for agony for all eternity, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief in the sanctity of life in the only world which matters.

To put it bluntly, why worry about the sanctity of my life, if I'm just going to burn in hell for all eternity anyway? And why worry about the sanctity of your own life when you can fast-track yourself to paradise?

 

[Hollie]

Another Islamic terrorist attack. I guess the rabid Islamists just can’t help themselves.



Israeli military strikes Hamas targets in Gaza after rocket fire

Sirens sounded in the Sderot area Wednesday night as the Iron Dome intercepted a rocket launched from the Strip, the Israeli army said

The Israeli military struck Hamas targets early Thursday morning after a rocket was fired from the Gaza Strip at Israel overnight, the army said in a statement.

 

[Hollie]

Grab your party hats. Abu has launched into another tirade railing against the usual rant'ee; the Joooooos.

Abu is making all the usual excuses for a dysfunctional society that can't cope. He shouid look elsewhere for the source of a failed islamic enclave but that would require some introspection and facing some hard realities.




Abbas' libel: Israel brings "cannabis and drugs" to Palestinians - they "don't want us to have a future"

Abbas' libel: Israel brings "cannabis and drugs" to Palestinians - they "don't want us to have a future" | PMW Analysis

Nan Jacques Zilberdik and Itamar Marcus | Dec 18, 2019

• “The Israeli occupation’s security forces are interested in there being drug needles in the hands of the children, youth, and young people instead of books, pens, or work tools, because drug needles kill the soul and lead the users to a stage of helplessness” - op-ed in official PA daily

At a recent conference against corruption organized by the Palestinian Authority, Chairman Abbas repeated the PA libel that Israel actively supplies drugs to Palestinians in order to ruin their future.

 

[Sixties Fan]

• Now that Hamas has again – clearly – reminded the world that it has not changed and continues to seek the destruction of Israel, the question is: Why are some world leaders, governments and organizations continuing to embrace the leaders of the movement?
  
  
• A further question that ought to be asked in light of the recent venomous anti-Israel statements by Hamas leaders in the past few days: Why is the United Nations trying to convince Hamas to participate in Palestinian presidential and parliamentary elections?
  
  
• All that is needed is for Erdogan and the rest of the world to listen to the statements of Hamas leaders in the past few days to understand that the movement is more determined than ever to achieve its goals of driving Jews "out of all of Palestine" and replacing Israel with an Islamic state.... What is it that they do not understand about "DEATH TO ISRAEL"? ... It makes one wonder what their real motive is.

(full article online)

Hamas, Thirty-Two Years Later

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Of major world religions it would fit all three Abrahamic Faith's. They all have some form of righteous killing or holy warrior or just war that does not result in eternal damnation. Not sure about other faiths.

1. This is not what I said, when I gave examples of the ideology, and not the ideology I'm speaking of.
2. I'm really tired of all three "Abrahamic" faiths being lumped together. The ideology is very different in each.
3. There is a very great difference in ideology between a just war and "kill them all, JC will sort them out".
4. You keep reducing complex ideologies down into their simplest components, rather than seeking to understand.
5. You continue to try to make all faiths and religions the same or equivalent - they are not.

Exactly, I know of only 2 Abrahamic faiths that are 'major world religions'.
The original one is less than 1% of the world's population, and always kept small.

The mere combination 'holy-warrior' or 'holy-war' represent duality inherit in all cultures that were influenced by Judaism, but is entirely foreign to Jewish thought.

Roughly speaking, Christianity inherited from Judaism a lenience towards the mercy measure, while Islam is extremely on the judgement side.

With Judaism, aside from being the original, its the sane middle in its correct balance,
and without the push to convert or conquer the entire world. At its core It has its set cultural boundaries in which it was intended to apply, a thing the other two lack.

Maybe this is the key to understanding those 'major world religions' from the perspective of political ideology along the last 2,000 years of history.

Yes! Thank you. (and the idea of Judaism as a "world religion" seems more than a little odd to me.)

There are a number of ideas which are found in Xtianity and Islam which are foreign to Judaism. Possibly claimed to be sourced from the Jewish texts, but with such a foreign worldview that it is unrelatable to Judaism. There are also a number of ideas which seem similar but are understood in very different ways.

As examples (in no particular order):

grace vs. forgiveness vs. teshuvah

heaven/hell vs. the world to come

reward/punishment vs. repair of the world

the purpose of sacrifice

the need for salvation vs. the labour of performing mitzvot


To bring it back to why this matters. If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a heaven, and that a place in that heaven is dependent on holding certain beliefs and that reward in heaven is merited by certain actions, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief that the afterlife is more or less irrelevant. If one holds a fundamental belief that there is a hell and all people who hold the the "wrong" beliefs or perform the "wrong" actions, will suffer for agony for all eternity, it puts you in an entirely different place than if one holds a fundamental belief in the sanctity of life in the only world which matters.

To put it bluntly, why worry about the sanctity of my life, if I'm just going to burn in hell for all eternity anyway? And why worry about the sanctity of your own life when you can fast-track yourself to paradise?

Although this is not the Religion Forum, it's true that there are many theological differences between all 3 of these faiths.