Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Rigby5]

Around 2,000 pilgrims from the Palestinian territories, Israel and Jordan, some waving Palestinian flags, attend the mass as well as Abbas, who had a private audience with the pope on Saturday.

How can the so-called "Evangelical Christians" support the Anti-Christian Zionists in their fight against Palestinians, be these Palestinians Christians or Muslims?

There is no fight against the Palestinians, only against extremists.
What makes you think that Zionists are 'anti - Christian??? Because a small handful of religious Jews are racist, so all of them are?? Many Zionists are Christian BTW.. You are a massive bigot who is extremely uninformed and full of propaganda.

If the Zionist were not trying to commit genocide against the Palestinians, then why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?
Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?
There are all criminal actions intent on starving Palestinians from their ancestral homes.

why invade and occupy Jerusalem, which is out side the legal 1948 UN borders of Israel?

What country was Jerusalem in?

Why block all shipping and travel in and out of Palestine?

Because Palestine imports terror materials.

Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.

It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.

This is not about jurisdiction, this is about Israel doing what it needs to protect itself...

That is illegal and criminal.
If Israel has a case, then by law it has to take that case to the UN.
Unilateral use of force is criminal.
And clearly it is Israel that is in violation of international law, not Palestine.
The only legal border of Israel is the 1948 UN division, which puts Jerusalem outside of Israel.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.

Created what?

It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.

Sure it does.

Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine,

Wanna bet?

which was legally created by treaty in 1920.

You're confused.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Creation and Legal Considerations
⁜→ Rigby5, et al,

BLUF: You have this entirely wrong.

Jerusalem was always in Palestine, which was a territory of the Ottoman Empire until the Treaty of Sevres created it in 1920.

(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Sevres (1920) was never ratified by the Turkish Government and subsequently was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne (1924).

Even if the Treaty of Sevres was the guiding requirement, SECTION VII. SYRIA, MESOPOTAMIA, PALESTINE.
ARTICLE 95 of the Treaty of Sevres states"

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.​

But then Article 16 of the Treaty of Lausanne state:

​

Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.​

​

The provisions of the present Article do not prejudice any special arrangements arising from neighbourly relations which have been or may be concluded between Turkey and any limitrophe countries.​

You should take note that the Arab Palestinians (in point of fact • no Arab representatives at all) were a party to the Treaty, let alone a party concerned. (See the Preamble for the Parties to the Treaty.) The future of Palestine was to be settled by the parties concerned. It was NOT a sovereign state or country.

It does not matter if Palestine imports anything, including terror materials.
Israel has no jurisdiction over Palestine, which was legally created by treaty in 1920.

(COMMENT)

The question is NOT whether or not Israel has jurisdiction - but, whether or not the Arab Palestinian Government of Ramallah (Palestinians Authority) has Jurisdiction. And if it has jurisdiction, to what extent?

In 1988, the West Bank was a sovereign territory of Jordan; occupied by the Israelis. In July 1988, HM The King cut all ties to the West Bank (disengagement), abandoning the territory into the hands of the Israeli Occupation. The Arab Palestinians had no active government to take over. Thus, the territory was essentially handed Terra Nullius to the Israelis.

This changed with the Oslo Accords and the designation of Areas "A" • "B" and "C" in the agreement with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​

The Security Council — the primary organ of the United Nations responsible for the maintenance of international peace and security—remains actively seized of the small arms and light weapons challenge. It has addressed small arms and light weapons-related issues across its agenda, from Security Sector Reform to arms embargoes to counter-terrorism and sustaining peace, while also treating these matters in country-specific and regionally-focused contexts.​

​

In 1999, the Security Council first addressed the issue of small arms as a standalone agenda item. In 2013, the Council adopted resolution 2117 (2013) on small arms, which focused on the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons (SALW). Resolution 2220 (2015) contained further provisions aimed at bolstering international cooperation, effective implementation of UN arms embargoes and support to the Arms Trade Treaty. The Council issued Presidential statements on small arms in 1999, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005 and 2007.​

Relative to SALW, the issue is addressed on multiple levels. Resolutions A/RES/60/288 • Decides to include in the provisional agenda of its sixty-second session an item entitled “The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy”. Withing the Strategy is the Annexed "Action Plan." This Action Plan covers the SALW problem in Paragraph 5, Section II • Measures to prevent and combat terrorism which states:

5. To strengthen coordination and cooperation among States in combating crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems, money-laundering and smuggling of nuclear, chemical, biological, radiological and other potentially deadly materials;​

There is plenty of Justification for the Israelis to implement in disrupting the follow of weaponry that threatens necessary to protect national security, public order, public health or morals or the rights and freedoms of others. Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.

My Knee Jerk Response to the comment.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine,

Administration of what?

 

[P F Tinmore]

effective implementation of UN arms embargoes and support to the Arms Trade Treaty.

Does the UN have an arms embargo on Palestine?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.

According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.

The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.

So no official body created Israel.

 

[rylah]

Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.

According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.

The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.

So no official body created Israel.

Not according to Lon and the Mandate, but according to a later quote by Churchil.
However the language of the international law you've brought up, says the exact opposite:

"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for re-constituting their national home in that country."

Resolution 181 was actually the first time ever an Arab state was suggested,
wasn't binding, and failed. The official body creating Israel was...Israel themselves.

Need that explained?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.

According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.

The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.

So no official body created Israel.

Not according to Lon and the Mandate, but according to a later quote by Churchil.
However the language of the international law you've brought up, says the exact opposite:

"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for re-constituting their national home in that country."

Resolution 181 was actually the first time ever an Arab state was suggested,
wasn't binding, and failed. The official body creating Israel was...Israel themselves.

Need that explained?

That brings up some questions that you will not answer.

Why are the West Bank and Gaza Strip called the OPT? (Occupied Palestinian Territory) What are the history and process for that designation?

Why do the Palestinians call Israel "48?"

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for re-constituting their national home in that country."

What was the JNH under the Mandate?

ART. 7.​

​

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​

Why would the Palestinians and the Jews become nationals and citizens of a place that was not a state?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Creation and Legal Considerations
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I'm not sure you have even 25% of your implications correct.

by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine,

Administration of what?

(COMMENT)

What is the matter? It clearly says that it was addressing the administration of the territory within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, and entrusted to a Mandatory.

effective implementation of UN arms embargoes and support to the Arms Trade Treaty.

Does the UN have an arms embargo on Palestine?

(COMMENT)

Short Answer: No. (Reminder: I don't speak for Israel.)

But it appears quite clearly that Israel implements its own screening processes that include both legally binding embargoes and those that are solely political commitments. The Israelis have implemented programs → in place that reduce the weapons, and materials used to manufacture weapons, that are in the hands of designated terrorist organizations and being used by organizations like the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas-Izz al-Din al-Qassem, the Palestinians Islamic Jihad, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine — General Command, etc.

​

Palestinian Authority reiterates that PLO Charter calling for Israel’s total destruction is still in effect
On a recent television broadcast, “while presenting the historical overview” of the PLO Charter, the Palestinian Authority “chose to cite the Charter’s declarations denying Israel’s right to exist and the PLO’s goal of destroying Israel, even claiming that it is supported by the UN…. there is no reference to the fact that the PA obligated itself to cancel all the clauses of the PLO Charter calling for Israel’s destruction, under the terms of the Oslo Accords.”
SOURCE: Mar 18, 2021 4:00 pm By Christine Douglass-Williams

NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT: Israel has every right (in fact and obligation< to take steps to intercept arms shipments that will fall into the hands of threats to Israeli security, sovereignty, and stability.

Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.

According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.
The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.
So no official body created Israel.

(COMMENT)

The LoN Covenant, the Mandate, and the UN A/RES/181 (II) DO NOT create States. They set the conditions for a people to exercise self-determination in a way that a state may be recognized as a consequence of self-determination. In the "Question of Palestine," theNational Council for the Jewish State cooperated with the UN Palestine Commission, and at the end of the process, the State of Israel was created. The Arab Palestinians rejected the call for cooperation and the consequences are evident.

Your concept of "failed" is somewhat different than mine. The State of Israel does physically, politically, and developmentally exist. (That cannot be denied!) Whether or not the Arab Palestinians recognize it or not, IS completely and utterly irrelevant. The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. [Article 3, Convention on Rights and Duties of States (1933)].

No official body is required to create a state. As has been said several thousand times in this discussion group: Israel exists through self-determination. Israel has the most conditions that influence the possibilities of satisfying the needs and desires of its people. Israel does this better than any other country in the Middle East (and beyond). In contrast, the Arab Palestinians are still a culture of total dependence. It is a welfare state kept alive by contributions from donor nations. What they are today as a nation is a consequence of their focus:

​

The media spokesperson and “popular resistance coordinator” of Fatah’s Qalqilya branch, Murad Shtewi, stressed that
Palestinians view the entire area from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea as “Palestine,”
and that they won’t give up an inch of it.
He also called on Palestinians to carry out “a popular revolution” against Israel.
SOURCE VIDEO: [Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Nov. 30, 2019]
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Whether or not the Arab Palestinians recognize it or not, IS completely and utterly irrelevant.

No it isn't. The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinians view the entire area from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea as “Palestine,”

It's not? How did Israel get that territory?

Links?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.

They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.

They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?

Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

You don't make any sense.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.

They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?

Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

You don't make any sense.

How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?

You make me laugh.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.

They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?

Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

You don't make any sense.

How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?

You make me laugh.

Poor attempt at a duck.

 

[Hollie]

Israel is entitled to take such measures that may be necessary to secure the State of Israel and the Jewish National Home (JNH) from external forces.

According to the LoN and the Mandate, the JNH was not supposed to be a Jewish state. No Jewish state was created.

The UN, under Resolution 181, attempted to create a Jewish state but failed.

So no official body created Israel.

What requirement was needed for an official body?

The answer is none.

Thanks.

 

[Hollie]

The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.

They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?

Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

You don't make any sense.

How can you suggest the Pally's have no territory when you insist the Magical Kingdom of Pallyland was invented as a state by the Treaty of Lausanne?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.

They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?

Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

You don't make any sense.

How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?

You make me laugh.

Poor attempt at a duck.

Never was a country, never owned any territory.

Not a duck in sight.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians are the only people who can cede their territory to Israel.

They didn't own any territory, how can they cede it?

Load of Israeli hooey. Negotiating borders is a final status issue. How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

You don't make any sense.

How can the Palestinians negotiate borders when they have no territory?

Why should anyone negotiate with the Palestinians, who you admit have no territory?

You make me laugh.

Poor attempt at a duck.

Never was a country, never owned any territory.

Not a duck in sight.

Who told you that?

Link?