Debate Now Who are the serious debaters on this forum?

[Foxfyre]

It's now been seven months and not a fking peep from Rumpole on my subject to debate. Any other demofk in here game?

Well at least you inspired me to read through the thread which was mostly just personal insults but every now and then somebody made an interesting point.

I am probably much more guilty than most in using more words than necessary to make my argument. It comes from long training and practice in not leaving loose ends that invite incorrect assumptions. It has become habit that is difficult to break.

But as we all know, being thorough and accurate in supporting an argument means nothing to the trolls who will just dishonestly troll anyway.

Which leaves us with only a few serious debaters on this forum.

 

[jc456]

Well at least you inspired me to read through the thread which was mostly just personal insults but every now and then somebody made an interesting point.

I am probably much more guilty than most in using more words than necessary to make my argument. It comes from long training and practice in not leaving loose ends that invite incorrect assumptions. It has become habit that is difficult to break.

But as we all know, being thorough and accurate and supporting an argument means nothing to the trolls who will just dishonestly troll anyway.

Which leaves us with only a few serious debaters on this forum.

I've been accused of using one liner responses by the demofks in here. It's all they are usually worth! They lie on almost every post. Bring up a subject and the fly~Their entire intent is to troll, insult and call everyone names.

 

[Foxfyre]

I've been accused of using one liner responses by the demofks in here. It's all they are usually worth! They lie on almost every post. Bring up a subject and the fly~Their entire intent is to troll, insult and call everyone names.

Sad but true. Sometime one line says it all though. Sometimes it is just venting.

 

[jc456]

Sad but true. Sometime one line says it all though. Sometimes it is just venting.

But I will provide links. almost always when it is necessary. then the cucks say I didn't. amazing trollers.

 

[Zincwarrior]

This is not a forum for serious debate. thats fine.

 

[pknopp]

I set up a challenge for Rumpole and he disappeared. It's standard practice for you demofks to drop out of a discussion. Debate was the thread title and demofks can't!!!!

Name calling isn't exactly how one gets viable debate.

 

[Foxfyre]

This is not a forum for serious debate. thats fine.

It was intended to be. CK (when he was administrator) and I cooked up the structured debate forum as an intended means for the OP to inspire serious debate here and discourage trolling. It didn't catch on though as the mods hated having to enforce different rules for different threads and too few had the inclination (or perhaps the intellect) to make it work.

Even the OP here did not utilize the forum as intended by not including a simple rule or two that is expected to be followed. So it fell into disuse fairly quickly.

A pity though. It could have been a very good thing for those who enjoy stretching their intellect and formulating a credible argument. Maybe I'm naive to even hope for such a thing here? I don't know.

 

[WinterBorn]

It was intended to be. CK (when he was administrator) and I cooked up the structured debate forum as an intended means for the OP to inspire serious debate here and discourage trolling. It didn't catch on though as the mods hated having to enforce different rules for different threads and too few had the inclination (or perhaps the intellect) to make it work.

Even the OP here did not utilize the forum as intended by not including a simple rule or two that is expected to be followed. So it fell into disuse fairly quickly.

A pity though. It could have been a very good thing for those who enjoy stretching their intellect and formulating a credible argument. Maybe I'm naive to even hope for such a thing here? I don't know.

It would be a welcome relief here.

 

[dblack]

My debating is the best. I do only the most serious debating. No one can touch my debating skillz.

 

[otto105]

I set up a challenge for Rumpole and he disappeared. It's standard practice for you demofks to drop out of a discussion. Debate was the thread title and demofks can't!!!!

Debate what?

 

[WinterBorn]

I set up a challenge for Rumpole and he disappeared. It's standard practice for you demofks to drop out of a discussion. Debate was the thread title and demofks can't!!!!

Plenty of, so-called, conservatives refuse to debate as well. They, as well as dems, prefer to call names or discuss the other poster rather than the actual topic.

 

[Failzero]

I've been accused of using one liner responses by the demofks in here. It's all they are usually worth! They lie on almost every post. Bring up a subject and the fly~Their entire intent is to troll, insult and call everyone names.

75% of my posts & replies are 3 sentences or less .

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

A number of persons on this forum do not understand how to frame an argument.

But, some of you do.

the non serious ones make wild claims, vacuous claims without substantiating them.

When asked to substantiate, I often get a snarky 'you do it'. No, the onus is always on the the ones making claims to substantiate their claims. You cannot ask others to do your work for you. That never has been the etiquette in any forum I've ever heard of and I've been on many going back to the 90s, the days of Usenet.

I will always substantiate my claim, if it exists. If it doesn't, I'll be happy to say 'it's just my opinion'. Opinions are okay, just make sure you make it clear that that is what they are. If you are making a claim of fact, then substantiate it to the best you can, and offer a path of reasoning for it, to the best that you can. See, to substantiate could just mean to supplement yuor claim, though proving it would be even better, but at least supplement it with something, or at the very minimum, a well reasoned path of logic and naming some well known examples, that would be okay.

But a wild claim, short sentence, 'Biden family are criminals' without evidence, that's not an argument. To say, 'it's in the news', that's not substantiation. A link would suffice. We could then debate the link, sure, but at least provide something, and the more, the merrier. It's called 'moving the debate forward'. Comments that do not move the debate forward are non arguments. Arguments and counter arguments move the debate forward. It's not complicated.

the non serious engage in ad hominems. The attack the source or the messenger and not the message. (yes, I've done this myself, but I would love to argue on a forum that doesn't allow it).

They who do not know how to debate do not engage in a real argument, they riddle their comments with rant words, weasel words, words of emotion and sentiment, engage in petty name calling, and wild claims without substance to them, and do not understand what a real argument is, and they do not understand the difference between an opinion and an argument, the difference between a non argument and a real argument.

For example:

Conservatives are morons. Liberals are idiots.

No, those are not arguments. Those are rants, they are sentiments, weasel words, ad homs, non arguments. Got it?

But, if I wrote: AOC's 'new deal' has issues, which are as follows (list them ) which is supported by (link to authoritative sources which supplement the argument [which, by the way, is not a violation of the 'appeals to authority' logical fallacy, because it's supplementation, not reliance upon] ).

That would be an argument. No snarky quips, no hate-AOC remarks, etc. Real arguments aren't supposed to be impressive by clever word use designed to get likes, they are supposed to be persuasive.

Who are the members of USMB who know how to debate?

Please tell me who you are and you will be the ones invited to future OPs by me on this forum. I don't care if you are right or left or something else. It's not about whether your are right or wrong, that is why we are here, to debate what is right and wrong, but some of you are disingenuous and are here only to get likes from your friends. Some of your I simply cannot take seriously. And, of course, those of you I can't take seriously will typically shoot that same claim back at me, which is, in fact, a cop out.

Who are the serious debaters? Let me know, please. PM me, if you prefer.

Please understand, I do not claim to be the god's gift to debate forums, it's not about how well we argue, I am probably even guilty of some of the sins I eschew, (but I strive, at least, not to, but, at times, it feels like I have to, with some of you) it's about how to at least adhere to a form that allows for constructive debate, and that is what I'm after.

And, another thing, we are anonymous here. All that matters is the argument, not who we are. Some are from foreign countries, it doesn't matter, all that matters is the text in the argument. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm from Texas, in case you are wondering.

Let me know, thank you.

Rumpole.

In general, this forum is for partisans. In my experience partisans operate out of a set of beliefs..often bolstered by cherry-picked facts.
True debate has an underlying assumption...that one's opinion may be swayed by cogent argument.
True believers simply aren't of that mindset. If fact and belief clash...fact MUST be wrong..no matter the torturous and convoluted path taken to 'prove' it.
The whole point of the 'Alternative Narrative ' is to obscure fact that might detract from one's belief..and accentuate facts that bolster it.

 

[Foxfyre]

It would be a welcome relief here.

Believe me I have so longed to find a site that actually did not allow trolling. I can't believe I (maybe you and few others) are the only people on the internet that actually like to test their opinions, explore ideas and concepts, teach and learn.

 

[Foxfyre]

In general, this forum is for partisans. In my experience partisans operate out of a set of beliefs..often bolstered by cherry-picked facts.
True debate has an underlying assumption...that one's opinion may be swayed by cogent argument.
True believers simply aren't of that mindset. If fact and belief clash...fact MUST be wrong..no matter the torturous and convoluted path taken to 'prove' it.
The whole point of the 'Alternative Narrative ' is to obscure fact that might detract from one's belief..and accentuate facts that bolster it.

I don't ask that I be able to sway anybody's beliefs or opinions. I only ask that there be intellectual honesty and perhaps sufficient curiosity to be interested in things and sufficient tolerance to allow others to disagree. A partisan can be ethical, fair minded, intellectually honest even if fairly ideologically fanatical about some things.

But trolls are incapable of intellectual honesty.

I can so carefully word a post it cannot possibly be misunderstood and include irrefutable evidence to support it, and the predictable trolls will still make snarky hateful comments, accuse me, call me names, and/or put some kind of ugly opinion icon on that post. I know I am in no way unique in that regard here.

It does discourage and sometimes makes intelligent discussion impossible.

 

[Failzero]

Having a Socialist demand I explain what a Marxist is is beyond partisanship

 

[Foxfyre]

Having a Socialist demand I explain what a Marxist is is beyond partisanship

It is frustrating. You can't even start a thread about what Marxism is that the trolls won't destroy if they can.

 

[The Duke]

This is not a forum for serious debate. thats fine.

That's a good for you!

 

[Failzero]

It is frustrating. You can't even start a thread about what Marxism is that the trolls won't destroy if they can.

No you can’t call a Democommie out on their Mishegoss without them demanding you explain what a Democommie is ...

 

[dblack]

No you can’t call a Democommie out on their Mishegoss without them demanding you explain what a Democommie is ...

Is "Democommie" Yiddish?