Who here has had an abortion?

[manifold]

Yep, oblivious!

 

[Samson]

I was teaching a class of highschool Juniors, when one dude in the front of the Physics class began to ask questions regarding abortion.

I told the guy I didn't discuss it.

He seemed Offended, and asked, "Why I considered it a subject that I couldn't Discuss??"

my reply was;

A. Abortion had nothing to do with Physics.

B. There may acutally be someone in the room who had had an abortion, and while I understood that within his 17 year old realm of experience, he mightn't understand that these individuals might have deep, personal, emotions assosciated with the subject, that I did have enough experience to realise a classroom containing 17 year old females wasn't the appropriate forum.

There was a moment of semi-embarrassed silence after my little remarks.

It was broken by a girl sitting in the back of the room, who said, "I agree with you Mr. Samson."

I'll never forget this episode.

Some day women, and men who have supported women who have had abortions, will not feel fear at the thought that their private lives will be exposed and will even feel comfortable speaking about them in public.

I really feel for the young girls who are so vulnerable and likely to be isolated thinking they are the only ones ever to find themselves in a predicament. I also feel for any woman of any age or any man too, whose life has been affected by the "Shame-the-"Baby-Killer" mob.

Well, I was, and have always been curious about the girl. Although I would have never been so boorish to ask.

Whether or not she had ever had an abortion, to speak up and agree with me under those circumstances, still seems extraordinary.

By the way, I haven't read much about guys being involved in abortions.

I have a "friend" who had a one night stand. He then moved from one apartment to another, but the girl tracked him down, and confronted him with her situation. This "friend" was IMHO either galant or stupid about it, but he was NOT an asshole, and paid for his portion of the bill.

In retrospect, I think he was galant.

 

[emilynghiem]

I think this thread is laughable at best.. It is obvious that with this group anyone that admits to having an abortion will be judged and condemned..

I have been through that, believe me. I was as furious as a rape victim being blamed for rape. Unless you know the circumstances, yes, it is easier to blame than to take the time to consider why these things happen.

There are to many christian neotards here to make this a serious discussoin..... But as you can see from some of the posts.. People are already being judged and they have yet to even answer..

Again, been there too. I see it as a good thing to have this discussion, as especially Christians are guilty of projecting judgment onto other people.

What I learned about fear of judgment, as long as you understand why things happen and you commit not to let that influence you again, you can forgive and you can be free. You no longer judge yourself, so this helps other people to get over it also.

I learned that people who judge you, are actually projecting their own fear of judgment. If they have been judged, or haven't forgiven something, anyone including you can become a target of that if you remind them of the person or thing they have not resolved.

So this is no longer a reflection on you, but of them who are doing the judging.
You are just acting as a mirror.

When you understand that most human relations and conflicts are based on this behavior, of mutual judgment and projection onto the other person, you are no longer afraid.
You realize both people are equally human, equally afraid of being hurt or judged.
And when you realize it is mutual, you can overcome it together also.

In Christian terms and teachings, there are instructions given to "confess our faults one to another and pray for one another that we may be healed" (James 5:16) and in Matthew 18:15-20 to redress grievances directly with one another for the purpose of restoring relations, establishing truth, not finding fault and rejecting anyone. The Bible says to "judge not, but judge righteous judgment" so when you correct one another as equals, there is no shame in errors that are mutual, where both people learn from the other.

So I find Christians have just as much to learn about what it means to follow the Bible, in the spirit of Christ Jesus, to bring restorative justice, correction and healing to relationships, to break the cycle of suffering and set people free, instead of more retribution and punishment to fuel conflict and war that enslaves and kills humanity.

Abortion and war are similar, they still happen though they can both be prevented. The same steps it would take to prevent one would prevent the other. Fear and judgment and division, that only fuels the conflicts and separation that lead to devastation. So Christians and other religions have just as much to learn to prevent from going down that path.

 

[Ravi]

From reading this thread I see that Angie hurt the feelings of Mani, so he lashed out in a manner that he thought was the most offensive...which he has done before...by lying, not misinterpreting, but lying, about something someone said.

I don't understand that. It's one thing to misinterpret someone's viewpoint and another thing to lie about something they've said.

What purpose it serves is up in the air.

 

[Anguille]

Well, I was, and have always been curious about the girl. Although I would have never been so boorish to ask.

Whether or not she had ever had an abortion, to speak up and agree with me under those circumstances, still seems extraordinary.

By the way, I haven't read much about guys being involved in abortions.

I have a "friend" who had a one night stand. He then moved from one apartment to another, but the girl tracked him down, and confronted him with her situation. This "friend" was IMHO either galant or stupid about it, but he was NOT an asshole, and paid for his portion of the bill.

In retrospect, I think he was galant.

She may well still remember you and appreciate what your words. Other girls and boys in the class too. Perhaps it sparked a conversation in the schoolyard. Hopefully a positive one. It's good to see kids are more open about this than previous generations.

I think your friend was was gallant if there was any possibility she might not be pregnant by him. If there was no doubt, he did the honest thing.

 

[emilynghiem]

Ang likes to pretend this is somehow about me not liking women, yadda yadda yadda.

It's not. It's about me not liking her. She ALWAYS lies and she crosssed the line when she accused me of committing rape, which unlike abortion, is a criminal act.

That's what this is about, in case you were wondering.

1. Dear Manifold: I did post my letter talking about my abortion experience. I don't think I fit either of your arguments about this.
2. As for whether abortion is criminal, in my case, where I was coerced, and I felt the baby's spirit killed inside me, I believe it was like murder. I have a friend who said she could feel the baby's spirit where she coudl "prevent" it from entering the fertilized egg. And only when she accepted to carry the baby's soul, did she fully conceive and give birth.
So I would say that if the baby's soul has entered the body, where it is a unique spirit that desires life and feels pain, then abortion is killing. Only if the baby's spirit is divorced from the process, and has not entered yet, would that be different. If you cannot prove this one way or the other, I understand why pro-life activists argue to err on the side of caution and to protect the child. But realistically, the whole situation should be prevented, where there are no crisis pregnancies to begin with, so I believe that should be the focus where everyone can agree and work together productively on prevention.
3. As for male/female bias, clearly legislation against abortion would affect women more than men, who are equal partners in sexual activity, thus violating equal constitutional protections. In order to make laws fair, what if legislation were passed, defining a degree of rape for acts of sex that lead to unwanted pregnancy, children or abortions, and holding the man equally accountable as the woman for whether they acted consensually or not. If a relationship becomes abusive, then both parties could be required to undergo counseling before partaking in relations that could lead to another unwanted pregnancy, child or abortion. If you cannot even pass a law like that, which would hold both partners accountable for relationship abuse, how can you pass legislation that affects women more than men.

 

[manifold]

From reading this thread I see that Angie hurt the feelings of Mani, so he lashed out in a manner that he thought was the most offensive...which he has done before...by lying, not misinterpreting, but lying, about something someone said.

I don't understand that. It's one thing to misinterpret someone's viewpoint and another thing to lie about something they've said.

What purpose it serves is up in the air.

I didn't lie.

You just can't seem to come to grips with the fact that something went down on a board you post to and you missed it.

Your pal D seems to remember.

I'll concede that I cannot be certain the single-use puppet was Ang's, but it certainly fit her m.o.

and fwiw: I thought it was pretty damn funny at the time watching all the thumpers lose their shit over it. I always assumed it was Ang, but I could be wrong.

 

[Anguille]

From reading this thread I see that Angie hurt the feelings of Mani, so he lashed out in a manner that he thought was the most offensive...which he has done before...by lying, not misinterpreting, but lying, about something someone said.

I don't understand that. It's one thing to misinterpret someone's viewpoint and another thing to lie about something they've said.

What purpose it serves is up in the air.

I'm 99% sure he lied 100% about someone posting they had an abortion back at the old place. Dante is the only one who seems to remember such a thread.

But if I was to believe the 1% chance he really did see thread like that, it's all the more disgusting that he would claim it was me posting with a sock-puppet. Suppose it really was me? This scenario would only show how demented and vicious he could be. And can be, I'm now convinced.

Since we can't mention family here, I will not say what he posted to me once. But I think you may remember we discussed it. The person from whom he got his mean streak DNA.

Could also be he was just lying about that too. For sympathy. Which at the time I naively expressed.

 

[Anguille]

Ang likes to pretend this is somehow about me not liking women, yadda yadda yadda.

It's not. It's about me not liking her. She ALWAYS lies and she crosssed the line when she accused me of committing rape, which unlike abortion, is a criminal act.

That's what this is about, in case you were wondering.

1. Dear Manifold: I did post my letter talking about my abortion experience. I don't think I fit either of your arguments about this.
2. As for whether abortion is criminal, in my case, where I was coerced, and I felt the baby's spirit killed inside me, I believe it was like murder. I have a friend who said she could feel the baby's spirit where she coudl "prevent" it from entering the fertilized egg. And only when she accepted to carry the baby's soul, did she fully conceive and give birth.
So I would say that if the baby's soul has entered the body, where it is a unique spirit that desires life and feels pain, then abortion is killing. Only if the baby's spirit is divorced from the process, and has not entered yet, would that be different. If you cannot prove this one way or the other, I understand why pro-life activists argue to err on the side of caution and to protect the child. But realistically, the whole situation should be prevented, where there are no crisis pregnancies to begin with, so I believe that should be the focus where everyone can agree and work together productively on prevention.
3. As for male/female bias, clearly legislation against abortion would affect women more than men, who are equal partners in sexual activity, thus violating equal constitutional protections. In order to make laws fair, what if legislation were passed, defining a degree of rape for acts of sex that lead to unwanted pregnancy, children or abortions, and holding the man equally accountable as the woman for whether they acted consensually or not. If a relationship becomes abusive, then both parties could be required to undergo counseling before partaking in relations that could lead to another unwanted pregnancy, child or abortion. If you cannot even pass a law like that, which would hold both partners accountable for relationship abuse, how can you pass legislation that affects women more than men.

Emily, do you know manifold in real life? One would almost think you do.
Sorry for what happened to you.

 

[Ravi]

From reading this thread I see that Angie hurt the feelings of Mani, so he lashed out in a manner that he thought was the most offensive...which he has done before...by lying, not misinterpreting, but lying, about something someone said.

I don't understand that. It's one thing to misinterpret someone's viewpoint and another thing to lie about something they've said.

What purpose it serves is up in the air.

I didn't lie.

You just can't seem to come to grips with the fact that something went down on a board you post to and you missed it.

Your pal D seems to remember.

I'll concede that I cannot be certain the single-use puppet was Ang's, but it certainly fit her m.o.

and fwiw: I thought it was pretty damn funny at the time watching all the thumpers lose their shit over it. I always assumed it was Ang, but I could be wrong.

I don't believe you. Something like that would have been a topic of conversation.

And "my" pal d contradicted you. Not that I have any faith in his ability to do anything but stir up shit.

IMO, what you "remember" never happened and in fact you are lying when you say that it did.

 

[Father Time]

From reading this thread I see that Angie hurt the feelings of Mani, so he lashed out in a manner that he thought was the most offensive...which he has done before...by lying, not misinterpreting, but lying, about something someone said.

I don't understand that. It's one thing to misinterpret someone's viewpoint and another thing to lie about something they've said.

What purpose it serves is up in the air.

Should I be worried that you're agreeing with Anguille. I mean I swear I saw some music videos on MTV so....

 

[Anguille]

From reading this thread I see that Angie hurt the feelings of Mani, so he lashed out in a manner that he thought was the most offensive...which he has done before...by lying, not misinterpreting, but lying, about something someone said.

I don't understand that. It's one thing to misinterpret someone's viewpoint and another thing to lie about something they've said.

What purpose it serves is up in the air.

I didn't lie.

You just can't seem to come to grips with the fact that something went down on a board you post to and you missed it.

Your pal D seems to remember.

I'll concede that I cannot be certain the single-use puppet was Ang's, but it certainly fit her m.o.

and fwiw: I thought it was pretty damn funny at the time watching all the thumpers lose their shit over it. I always assumed it was Ang, but I could be wrong.

Thanks, you just proved my 1% theory to be true.

It probably was your own sock puppet, A-Mani-duh.

There are no words to describe you.

maybe "psychopath".

 

[Ravi]

From reading this thread I see that Angie hurt the feelings of Mani, so he lashed out in a manner that he thought was the most offensive...which he has done before...by lying, not misinterpreting, but lying, about something someone said.

I don't understand that. It's one thing to misinterpret someone's viewpoint and another thing to lie about something they've said.

What purpose it serves is up in the air.

Should I be worried that you're agreeing with Ravi. I mean I swear I saw some music videos on MTV so....

lol...why wouldn't I agree with myself?

Maybe you meant to post something different?

 

[Father Time]

From reading this thread I see that Angie hurt the feelings of Mani, so he lashed out in a manner that he thought was the most offensive...which he has done before...by lying, not misinterpreting, but lying, about something someone said.

I don't understand that. It's one thing to misinterpret someone's viewpoint and another thing to lie about something they've said.

What purpose it serves is up in the air.

Should I be worried that you're agreeing with Ravi. I mean I swear I saw some music videos on MTV so....

lol...why wouldn't I agree with myself?

Maybe you meant to post something different?

Yeah I meant Anguille, I fixed it.

 

[Anguille]

From reading this thread I see that Angie hurt the feelings of Mani, so he lashed out in a manner that he thought was the most offensive...which he has done before...by lying, not misinterpreting, but lying, about something someone said.

I don't understand that. It's one thing to misinterpret someone's viewpoint and another thing to lie about something they've said.

What purpose it serves is up in the air.

I didn't lie.

You just can't seem to come to grips with the fact that something went down on a board you post to and you missed it.

Your pal D seems to remember.

I'll concede that I cannot be certain the single-use puppet was Ang's, but it certainly fit her m.o.

and fwiw: I thought it was pretty damn funny at the time watching all the thumpers lose their shit over it. I always assumed it was Ang, but I could be wrong.

I don't believe you. Something like that would have been a topic of conversation.

And "my" pal d contradicted you. Not that I have any faith in his ability to do anything but stir up shit.

IMO, what you "remember" never happened and in fact you are lying when you say that it did.

D does stir up shit. I wonder if del remembers anything. If it did happen it sounds like greenapplesplatters spoofing Liza Doo. Since you have no memory of this and neither do I, I think it's likely an invention of mani's evil mind. The give away was when he claimed the thread was deleted. His eveidence is always "deleted"

 

[Ravi]

Should I be worried that you're agreeing with Ravi. I mean I swear I saw some music videos on MTV so....

lol...why wouldn't I agree with myself?

Maybe you meant to post something different?

Yeah I meant Anguille, I fixed it.

Angie is often evil but she's not a bad person.

 

[Luissa]

Has anyone admitted to having one?????

 

[Anguille]

] Angie is often evil but she's not a bad person.

Anything evil I've ever done was for the good of mankind.

I'm progressive that way.

So I'm told.

 

[Anguille]

Has anyone admitted to having one?????

2 so far in this thread. But mani explained, they are not baby killers because they did not piss him off in the pit bull thread.

 

[Luissa]

Has anyone admitted to having one?????

2 so far in this thread. But mani explained, they are not baby killers because they did not piss him off in the pit bull thread.

Ah! Well that is good.