Who will be better at getting America out of debt, Trump or Hillary?

[nicoleivy5]

US debt is $19 trillion, the largest in the world for a single country - we owe a ton of money to other nations

Who is better suited to getting our nation out of debt, or at least lower the amount substantially?

None of the above. There is no way the US will be out of debt ever again. They make too much money off the debt and its a partisian issue the idiots can argue over. You can bet Drumpf would increase the debt.

the US was not DESIGNED to be out of debt. debt was specifically designed into the system by the founders.

our interest rates are low, the economy growing. debt isn't the issue that confronts us right now. but....

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/12/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes-hillary-clinton.html

true we are designed to be in debt forever sadly

 

[baileyn45]

I've had this very discussion so many times with people on the left that it's mind numbing. I believe it all comes down to the idea that people on the left see all business people as evil and it makes them feel good to stick it to evil people. Of course they don't realize that the vast majority of business people are middle class and anything that hurts us hurts our employees, the very people they think they're helping. Unfortunately they will never understand this, it doesn't make them feel good.

The left only wants--they don't ask where it's going to come from. Just make it appear.

They also think that just because somebody has a business, they are loaded with money--money they actually don't need by liberal standards.

In my suburb, they had the same philosophy with us landlords. My Councilman at the time told me the Mayor thought we had too much money. So they instituted apartment inspections and fees to go along with them.

It costs us thousands because you now have to wait for an inspection, and of course, they always find something wrong no matter how many times they've inspected the apartment before. Then you have to hire somebody to do the work which could take weeks. Then you have to have the apartment reinspected. Then you can finally look for a tenant.

I explained to my Councilman that these idiotic money grab tactics only lower our property value because anybody that thinks of getting into the rental business will look to invest anywhere outside of our city. Sure enough, that's what happened, and the money they steal from us is offset by lower taxes they get from the rental properties.

The problem is liberals simply don't think.

I've had this very discussion so many times with people on the left that it's mind numbing. I believe it all comes down to the idea that people on the left see all business people as evil and it makes them feel good to stick it to evil people. Of course they don't realize that the vast majority of business people are middle class and anything that hurts us hurts our employees, the very people they think they're helping. Unfortunately they will never understand this, it doesn't make them feel good.

The left only wants--they don't ask where it's going to come from. Just make it appear.

They also think that just because somebody has a business, they are loaded with money--money they actually don't need by liberal standards.

In my suburb, they had the same philosophy with us landlords. My Councilman at the time told me the Mayor thought we had too much money. So they instituted apartment inspections and fees to go along with them.

It costs us thousands because you now have to wait for an inspection, and of course, they always find something wrong no matter how many times they've inspected the apartment before. Then you have to hire somebody to do the work which could take weeks. Then you have to have the apartment reinspected. Then you can finally look for a tenant.

I explained to my Councilman that these idiotic money grab tactics only lower our property value because anybody that thinks of getting into the rental business will look to invest anywhere outside of our city. Sure enough, that's what happened, and the money they steal from us is offset by lower taxes they get from the rental properties.

The problem is liberals simply don't think.

Sounds familiar. I just listened to a friend complaining about "inspections". He was building a home addition, took him 7 months to get approval to begin and that's with professional engineering and architectural drawings.

What really set him off was that while in the city office waiting for paperwork (for 4 hours) he got a glimpse of their schedule posted on a wall. They had 7 inspectors listed, 6 had 1 inspection scheduled for the day, one had nothing. He laughed and said his inspection which was on the schedule involved a guy walking up to a ditch, watching my buddy stick a tape measure in the ditch and saying "OK looks good". Another tough day of work completed. The scary part is I know that these folks start at 70K a year. Add in bennies and they're costing us 100K to sit around with their thumbs up their ass.

How do you know that the inspectors that had one inspection listed weren't inspecting sub divisions? Or commercial buildings?

Basically because I know the city. It is entirely built out with zero new construction. On top of that I've been there for inspections, none require an 8 hour day, let alone 6 massive inspections in one day.

 

[OnePercenter]

Raise minimum wage. Done!

that will cause other problems

Such as?

employers will not be happy. Can lead to change of policies or firing some workers because they cost to much in salary

Boohoo! You say employers will fire the people that make them all of their monies? Really? That would be very stupid, but then again, most employers in this country have no business being employers.

 

[Brain357]

Raise minimum wage. Done!

that will cause other problems

Such as?

employers will not be happy. Can lead to change of policies or firing some workers because they cost to much in salary

Boohoo! You say employers will fire the people that make them all of their monies? Really? That would be very stupid, but then again, most employers in this country have no business being employers.

If they think raising min wage would cause problems they should take a look at trumps stupid tariff ideas. He wants to tax everyone and hope that somehow leads to some increased wages. Of course it will really just kill our exports and lead to a depression like they led to the great depression.

 

[OnePercenter]

Civil servants know whats best for business, and growth !!! Yes sir........ lol

The government receives complaints from citizens and the government acts by creating regulations. EVERY law and regulation has been written because someone screwed someone, or didn't act responsibility.

 

[baileyn45]

that will cause other problems

It will but nothing that cant be overcome. Instead of businesses refusing to make less than triple the profit on the backs of their workers they will adapt and settle for double the profit.

If only that were true.


American Entrepreneurship: Dead or Alive?

Its true. Things go in cycles. Those intelligent enough to know this are the ones that take advantage of the opportunity when the time is right. I think the stats prior to this say about 90% of startups fail in the first few years due to inept timing and business decisions. Another 40% of those left fail before they hit the 10 yr mark due to the inability to adapt.

90% Of Startups Fail: Here's What You Need To Know About The 10%

A 30 year cycle is a hell of a cycle. Not to mention the fact that 2008 was the first time ever recorded that closures outpaced startups. I find it interesting that the downward trend has been consistent since the 70s, right about the time the fed govt began their drive to massive regulation. Coincidence?

Blaming the trend on regulation is an over simplification. Their are a number of factors, most of which was not a problem decades ago such as insufficient access to capital; difficulty finding people with the right skills; immigration policies that keep talent out; taxes and regulations; and economic uncertainty. Cutting taxes for large corporations may help with the movement of jobs overseas but will do little to increase new business startups on main street. The burden of regulations can certainly be reduced for new startups however, the biggest problem is raising capital and financing and finding talent needed.

I agree, i never meant to suggest that it was solely to blame. However, when you add new regulatory burdens day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade, it's not hard to imagine that it eventually becomes a nightmare. I personally keep three separate lawyers on retainer. One to watch and advise me on changing labor laws at the local, county, state and federal levels. Another to advise me on changing safety and health regs at the local, county, state and federal levels and a third for general business purposes. The constant avalanche is mind boggling.

For years on another forum I corresponded with a German man who was in roughly the same industry. We used to compare notes. On safety and health alone he referenced 4 books which covered pretty much everything. I listed 38. This country sucks at regulatory practices. He dealt with engineers, I deal with lawyers.

 

[OnePercenter]

Were you bad and got on a slumlord list? When do you get house arrest and an ankle bracelet?

WTF are you even talking about fake one-percenter? Learn how to read so you can reply properly and follow a subject.

Bad memories? Got to ride in the back of a police car? Stripped searched by the guy with cigar fingers?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes he did. Who has gotten closer? Had Bush not given it away with tax breaks we wouldn't have the debt problem now. Trump is also talking tax cuts. Only gonna make the problem worse.

Obama nearly outspent Bush in his first term alone. If not for the 911 attack, Bush wouldn't have spent nearly as much.

If you look at the charts, spending has been going down since the Republicans took over leadership of Congress. It would be even lower without DumBama and his threats to shutdown the government.

The problem in our country is not how much is coming in, the problem in our country is how much is going out.

 

[baileyn45]

Civil servants know whats best for business, and growth !!! Yes sir........ lol

The government receives complaints from citizens and the government acts by creating regulations. EVERY law and regulation has been written because someone screwed someone, or didn't act responsibility.

You just don't understand how bad this country is at regulatory schemes. People in this country think that these regulations are drawn up by people with knowledge of the industries being regulated, they're not. They are drawn up by bureaucrats who very seldom have any background in the field they are regulating.

I'll give you my standard breakdown of what happens in an OSHA inspection in say a company of say 500 employees.
The CEO says" We are proud to work with our govt partners safety is important...."
It then goes to middle management who says "Oh no not this crap again"
6 months, 5 lawyers, 8 bureaucrats and $120k later the results get handed to the guys in the shop and they say "what in the f@#$ is this supposed to be? We don't do that, we have no idea what this means, that is plain wrong and is going to get some one killed".

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Bad memories? Got to ride in the back of a police car? Stripped searched by the guy with cigar fingers?

The problem with you is you smoke too much pot. HTF did you get from talking about government regulations to crime? You are really way out there, let me tell you.

 

[OnePercenter]

Trump is the better candidate, at least he understands the issue... that being said neither of them will balance the budget. We are looking at an economic catastrophe on the horizons.

Trump balances his budget by filing bankruptcy.

Nope... Try again...

You couldn't run a lemonade stand anyway so get out of here. You are talking about things way out of your depth.

Bain Capital: Robs Peter to pay Paul.

Trump Industries: Robs Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Brain357]

Yes he did. Who has gotten closer? Had Bush not given it away with tax breaks we wouldn't have the debt problem now. Trump is also talking tax cuts. Only gonna make the problem worse.

Obama nearly outspent Bush in his first term alone. If not for the 911 attack, Bush wouldn't have spent nearly as much.

If you look at the charts, spending has been going down since the Republicans took over leadership of Congress. It would be even lower without DumBama and his threats to shutdown the government.

The problem in our country is not how much is coming in, the problem in our country is how much is going out.

Of course he did. Obama was handed a disaster. Bush was handed a balanced budget and no wars.

 

[Norman]

Trump is the better candidate, at least he understands the issue... that being said neither of them will balance the budget. We are looking at an economic catastrophe on the horizons.

Trump balances his budget by filing bankruptcy.

Nope... Try again...

You couldn't run a lemonade stand anyway so get out of here. You are talking about things way out of your depth.

Bain Capital: Robs Peter to pay Paul.

Trump Industries: Robs Peter to pay Paul.

Hey, that's exactly what the federal government does.

But not Trump's businesses.

 

[OnePercenter]

US debt is $19 trillion, the largest in the world for a single country - we owe a ton of money to other nations

Who is better suited to getting our nation out of debt, or at least lower the amount substantially?

None of the above. There is no way the US will be out of debt ever again. They make too much money off the debt and its a partisian issue the idiots can argue over. You can bet Drumpf would increase the debt.

the US was not DESIGNED to be out of debt. debt was specifically designed into the system by the founders.

our interest rates are low, the economy growing. debt isn't the issue that confronts us right now. but....

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/12/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes-hillary-clinton.html

true we are designed to be in debt forever sadly

Any business including countries do. Your budget is based on expected income.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You just don't understand how bad this country is at regulatory schemes. People in this country think that these regulations are drawn up by people with knowledge of the industries being regulated, they're not. They are drawn up by bureaucrats who very seldom have any background in the field they are regulating.

I'll give you my standard breakdown of what happens in an OSHA inspection in say a company of say 500 employees.
The CEO says" We are proud to work with our govt partners safety is important...."
It then goes to middle management who says "Oh no not this crap again"
6 months, 5 lawyers, 8 bureaucrats and $120k later the results get handed to the guys in the shop and they say "what in the f@#$ is this supposed to be? We don't do that, we have no idea what this means, that is plain wrong and is going to get some one killed".

Yes, bureaucrats are one of the biggest problems in our country not to mention one of the biggest threats to our freedom. That's one of the things I liked about Trump. He voiced opposition to having all the bureaucracies we have.

Bureaucrats are a huge problem in the transportation industry. They have cost my company hundreds of thousands of dollars. Those losses get handed down to our customers who make products that we buy in the store everyday.

 

[baileyn45]

Yes he did. Who has gotten closer? Had Bush not given it away with tax breaks we wouldn't have the debt problem now. Trump is also talking tax cuts. Only gonna make the problem worse.

Obama nearly outspent Bush in his first term alone. If not for the 911 attack, Bush wouldn't have spent nearly as much.

If you look at the charts, spending has been going down since the Republicans took over leadership of Congress. It would be even lower without DumBama and his threats to shutdown the government.

The problem in our country is not how much is coming in, the problem in our country is how much is going out.

Of course he did. Obama was handed a disaster. Bush was handed a balanced budget and no wars.

Bush was handed an economy in recession and the worst attack on this country since Pearl Harbor. Don't get me wrong I have serious problems with the Bush adm, the idea that Clinton was a panacea is ridiculous.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Of course he did. Obama was handed a disaster. Bush was handed a balanced budget and no wars.

That doesn't justify idiotic spending like Cash for Clunkers, the Pork Bill, Commie Care and others. There was no need to spend half of the money he did. It was an opportunity for him.

 

[OnePercenter]

I've had this very discussion so many times with people on the left that it's mind numbing. I believe it all comes down to the idea that people on the left see all business people as evil and it makes them feel good to stick it to evil people. Of course they don't realize that the vast majority of business people are middle class and anything that hurts us hurts our employees, the very people they think they're helping. Unfortunately they will never understand this, it doesn't make them feel good.

The left only wants--they don't ask where it's going to come from. Just make it appear.

They also think that just because somebody has a business, they are loaded with money--money they actually don't need by liberal standards.

In my suburb, they had the same philosophy with us landlords. My Councilman at the time told me the Mayor thought we had too much money. So they instituted apartment inspections and fees to go along with them.

It costs us thousands because you now have to wait for an inspection, and of course, they always find something wrong no matter how many times they've inspected the apartment before. Then you have to hire somebody to do the work which could take weeks. Then you have to have the apartment reinspected. Then you can finally look for a tenant.

I explained to my Councilman that these idiotic money grab tactics only lower our property value because anybody that thinks of getting into the rental business will look to invest anywhere outside of our city. Sure enough, that's what happened, and the money they steal from us is offset by lower taxes they get from the rental properties.

The problem is liberals simply don't think.

I've had this very discussion so many times with people on the left that it's mind numbing. I believe it all comes down to the idea that people on the left see all business people as evil and it makes them feel good to stick it to evil people. Of course they don't realize that the vast majority of business people are middle class and anything that hurts us hurts our employees, the very people they think they're helping. Unfortunately they will never understand this, it doesn't make them feel good.

The left only wants--they don't ask where it's going to come from. Just make it appear.

They also think that just because somebody has a business, they are loaded with money--money they actually don't need by liberal standards.

In my suburb, they had the same philosophy with us landlords. My Councilman at the time told me the Mayor thought we had too much money. So they instituted apartment inspections and fees to go along with them.

It costs us thousands because you now have to wait for an inspection, and of course, they always find something wrong no matter how many times they've inspected the apartment before. Then you have to hire somebody to do the work which could take weeks. Then you have to have the apartment reinspected. Then you can finally look for a tenant.

I explained to my Councilman that these idiotic money grab tactics only lower our property value because anybody that thinks of getting into the rental business will look to invest anywhere outside of our city. Sure enough, that's what happened, and the money they steal from us is offset by lower taxes they get from the rental properties.

The problem is liberals simply don't think.

Sounds familiar. I just listened to a friend complaining about "inspections". He was building a home addition, took him 7 months to get approval to begin and that's with professional engineering and architectural drawings.

What really set him off was that while in the city office waiting for paperwork (for 4 hours) he got a glimpse of their schedule posted on a wall. They had 7 inspectors listed, 6 had 1 inspection scheduled for the day, one had nothing. He laughed and said his inspection which was on the schedule involved a guy walking up to a ditch, watching my buddy stick a tape measure in the ditch and saying "OK looks good". Another tough day of work completed. The scary part is I know that these folks start at 70K a year. Add in bennies and they're costing us 100K to sit around with their thumbs up their ass.

How do you know that the inspectors that had one inspection listed weren't inspecting sub divisions? Or commercial buildings?

Basically because I know the city. It is entirely built out with zero new construction. On top of that I've been there for inspections, none require an 8 hour day, let alone 6 massive inspections in one day.

So there is remodeling. That takes longer to inspect then new construction to inspect.

 

[baileyn45]

You just don't understand how bad this country is at regulatory schemes. People in this country think that these regulations are drawn up by people with knowledge of the industries being regulated, they're not. They are drawn up by bureaucrats who very seldom have any background in the field they are regulating.

I'll give you my standard breakdown of what happens in an OSHA inspection in say a company of say 500 employees.
The CEO says" We are proud to work with our govt partners safety is important...."
It then goes to middle management who says "Oh no not this crap again"
6 months, 5 lawyers, 8 bureaucrats and $120k later the results get handed to the guys in the shop and they say "what in the f@#$ is this supposed to be? We don't do that, we have no idea what this means, that is plain wrong and is going to get some one killed".

Yes, bureaucrats are one of the biggest problems in our country not to mention one of the biggest threats to our freedom. That's one of the things I liked about Trump. He voiced opposition to having all the bureaucracies we have.

Bureaucrats are a huge problem in the transportation industry. They have cost my company hundreds of thousands of dollars. Those losses get handed down to our customers who make products that we buy in the store everyday.

On another forum years ago the folks on that forum would drill into fed bureaucracies using public info to look at those in the bureaucracy. The one I remember dealt with the dept of transportation. This was maybe as much as 20 years ago.

They started with a typical pyramid chart of the leadership. When I stumbled upon it they were on the 15th person down the chart before they found anyone with any background whatsoever in transportation. And his "background" was that his father owned a trucking company. All 15 were lawyers. It's the same old story, "The bridge is about to collapse, some one call a lawyer".

 

[nicoleivy5]

You just don't understand how bad this country is at regulatory schemes. People in this country think that these regulations are drawn up by people with knowledge of the industries being regulated, they're not. They are drawn up by bureaucrats who very seldom have any background in the field they are regulating.

I'll give you my standard breakdown of what happens in an OSHA inspection in say a company of say 500 employees.
The CEO says" We are proud to work with our govt partners safety is important...."
It then goes to middle management who says "Oh no not this crap again"
6 months, 5 lawyers, 8 bureaucrats and $120k later the results get handed to the guys in the shop and they say "what in the f@#$ is this supposed to be? We don't do that, we have no idea what this means, that is plain wrong and is going to get some one killed".

Yes, bureaucrats are one of the biggest problems in our country not to mention one of the biggest threats to our freedom. That's one of the things I liked about Trump. He voiced opposition to having all the bureaucracies we have.

Bureaucrats are a huge problem in the transportation industry. They have cost my company hundreds of thousands of dollars. Those losses get handed down to our customers who make products that we buy in the store everyday.

On another forum years ago the folks on that forum would drill into fed bureaucracies using public info to look at those in the bureaucracy. The one I remember dealt with the dept of transportation. This was maybe as much as 20 years ago.

They started with a typical pyramid chart of the leadership. When I stumbled upon it they were on the 15th person down the chart before they found anyone with any background whatsoever in transportation. And his "background" was that his father owned a trucking company. All 15 were lawyers. It's the same old story, "The bridge is about to collapse, some one call a lawyer".

thats true