Why are the Trumpsters so hung up on BLM?

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

That's the problem they have. NO PROOF of ANYTHING today.

Again, I have no problem helping out with getting loans and education. But, I have NO DUTY to do so. If they are unwilling to discuss REALISTIC solutions, then I have nothing else to say.

They can try their communist revolution. We are ready.

 

[Asclepias]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

Therein lies the rub. In the best of times life has its challenges for everyone. Our point is that there shouldn't be a system set up to provide more obstacles based on being melinated.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

Therein lies the rub. In the best of times life has its challenges for everyone. Our point is that there shouldn't be a system set up to provide more obstacles based on being melinated.

The solution is to GET MORE BLACK FOLKS ENGAGED IN CAPITALISM!!! It is the only REAL solution.

 

[Asclepias]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

Therein lies the rub. In the best of times life has its challenges for everyone. Our point is that there shouldn't be a system set up to provide more obstacles based on being melinated.

The solution is to GET MORE BLACK FOLKS ENGAGED IN CAPITALISM!!! It is the only REAL solution.

What do we do about the white peoples headstart? When do we ever get the level playing field?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

Therein lies the rub. In the best of times life has its challenges for everyone. Our point is that there shouldn't be a system set up to provide more obstacles based on being melinated.

The solution is to GET MORE BLACK FOLKS ENGAGED IN CAPITALISM!!! It is the only REAL solution.

What do we do about the white peoples headstart? When do we ever get the level playing field?

What headstart? Prove who got what. I have NEVER been given any advantage.

I have no problem giving black folks loans or even grants (free money) to start NEEDED BUSINESSES. What is wrong with that?

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Its simple. Take the money from the defense budget or any other inflated budget.

You seem to forget we all contribute to said budget. You also seem to forget who holds the purse strings. I see nothing simple about that.

This is why I say dialogue is meaningless without action

Action won't happen without a dialogue and consensus.

Congress holds the purse strings and we all contribute to the entity that is the US.

We cant have dialogue on something we disagree on. Its not a bargaining session. Its money owed.

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Youre simply one person. You wouldn't be able to afford nor would you be expexted to do anything other than keep paying your taxes. Again its not a debate that I need to convince you of. You already understand the history and there are multiple precedents to do any convincing you may feel you personally need.

But the same qualifications apply to you. You weren't directly affected by slavery. Your ancestors might have been, so you feel a debt is owed because of your lineage. It's akin to how our government handles Native American reservations, which is much older than the blight of African slavery in this country. The way our government has dealt with the Native American tribes is a fucking joke. Is that what black people strive to emulate? Fuck no. C'mon. Be realistic.

"You weren't directly affected by slavery."

Who told you I wasnt directly affected by slavery? Do you think hearing my grandmother describe slavery to me left me unaffected? Do you think the dysfunctions in the Black community that came from slavery didnt affect me? Besides its not just slavery. Its the Black codes, Jim Crow, War on Drugs, Mass incarceration etc etc that has affected me.

I disagree with how the US had dealt with the NA's but right now youre trying to tell me that I should have a dialogue with a group of people that could care less about paying me my ancestors wages plus interests as well as punitive damages for racism. If were going to be realistic then we should concentrate on one thing at a time and not bring up something that has nothing to do with Black people.

There is an obvious frustration from both of us on this topic, and it comes from crimes of history that neither of us had a direct hand in. I believe you believe you are owed a debt from our government, which I contribute to in my own way, for crimes my ancestors had no part in.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

Therein lies the rub. In the best of times life has its challenges for everyone. Our point is that there shouldn't be a system set up to provide more obstacles based on being melinated.

Indeed. But you seem to see it as a discriminatory system from the get go. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about it, whether imagined or a reality. I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass and pretend we don't still have serious race problems in this country. But you seem to want to gloss over real serious problems I see with my own eyes in the black community. If we are ever going to have a serious dialogue and consensus about dismantling racism, you have to address the racists' concerns too, no matter how icky and ugly they might be. No community consists entirely of angels.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Its simple. Take the money from the defense budget or any other inflated budget.

You seem to forget we all contribute to said budget. You also seem to forget who holds the purse strings. I see nothing simple about that.

This is why I say dialogue is meaningless without action

Action won't happen without a dialogue and consensus.

Congress holds the purse strings and we all contribute to the entity that is the US.

We cant have dialogue on something we disagree on. Its not a bargaining session. Its money owed.

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Youre simply one person. You wouldn't be able to afford nor would you be expexted to do anything other than keep paying your taxes. Again its not a debate that I need to convince you of. You already understand the history and there are multiple precedents to do any convincing you may feel you personally need.

But the same qualifications apply to you. You weren't directly affected by slavery. Your ancestors might have been, so you feel a debt is owed because of your lineage. It's akin to how our government handles Native American reservations, which is much older than the blight of African slavery in this country. The way our government has dealt with the Native American tribes is a fucking joke. Is that what black people strive to emulate? Fuck no. C'mon. Be realistic.

"You weren't directly affected by slavery."

Who told you I wasnt directly affected by slavery? Do you think hearing my grandmother describe slavery to me left me unaffected? Do you think the dysfunctions in the Black community that came from slavery didnt affect me? Besides its not just slavery. Its the Black codes, Jim Crow, War on Drugs, Mass incarceration etc etc that has affected me.

I disagree with how the US had dealt with the NA's but right now youre trying to tell me that I should have a dialogue with a group of people that could care less about paying me my ancestors wages plus interests as well as punitive damages for racism. If were going to be realistic then we should concentrate on one thing at a time and not bring up something that has nothing to do with Black people.

There is an obvious frustration from both of us on this topic, and it comes from crimes of history that neither of us had a direct hand in. I believe you believe you are owed a debt from our government, which I contribute to in my own way, for crimes my ancestors had no part in.

But, you would have no problem taking from our way over-bloated military budge and giving cheap loans or even grants to black folks to start certain businesses, would you?

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Its simple. Take the money from the defense budget or any other inflated budget.

You seem to forget we all contribute to said budget. You also seem to forget who holds the purse strings. I see nothing simple about that.

This is why I say dialogue is meaningless without action

Action won't happen without a dialogue and consensus.

Congress holds the purse strings and we all contribute to the entity that is the US.

We cant have dialogue on something we disagree on. Its not a bargaining session. Its money owed.

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Youre simply one person. You wouldn't be able to afford nor would you be expexted to do anything other than keep paying your taxes. Again its not a debate that I need to convince you of. You already understand the history and there are multiple precedents to do any convincing you may feel you personally need.

But the same qualifications apply to you. You weren't directly affected by slavery. Your ancestors might have been, so you feel a debt is owed because of your lineage. It's akin to how our government handles Native American reservations, which is much older than the blight of African slavery in this country. The way our government has dealt with the Native American tribes is a fucking joke. Is that what black people strive to emulate? Fuck no. C'mon. Be realistic.

"You weren't directly affected by slavery."

Who told you I wasnt directly affected by slavery? Do you think hearing my grandmother describe slavery to me left me unaffected? Do you think the dysfunctions in the Black community that came from slavery didnt affect me? Besides its not just slavery. Its the Black codes, Jim Crow, War on Drugs, Mass incarceration etc etc that has affected me.

I disagree with how the US had dealt with the NA's but right now youre trying to tell me that I should have a dialogue with a group of people that could care less about paying me my ancestors wages plus interests as well as punitive damages for racism. If were going to be realistic then we should concentrate on one thing at a time and not bring up something that has nothing to do with Black people.

There is an obvious frustration from both of us on this topic, and it comes from crimes of history that neither of us had a direct hand in. I believe you believe you are owed a debt from our government, which I contribute to in my own way, for crimes my ancestors had no part in.

But, you would have no problem taking from our way over-bloated military budge and giving cheap loans or even grants to black folks to start certain businesses, would you?

Why limit it to just black people?

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Most white americans have a hard time accepting the fact that Blacks have been long terrorized by the police and instead claim its just a few bad apples.

Once again, these folks live in denial. Some people have natural aversions to the icky side of history and attempt to pass along homogenized revisions. All races do this to some degree. Plus, I've lived with white guilt my whole life. It is a bitch and does Caucasians no favors to make inroads sometimes. I don't do white guilt. I don't walk this earth with a balloon over my head that says to minorities: 'see? I'm one of the good ones! Nope, no sir. Not a racist here!'. That's bananas. I believe pandering is a direct insult to everyone's intelligence. Hence, I'm not a big fan of Al Sharpton.

Its going to require a majority of whites coming to the conclusion that racism exists in this country before we can start having a dialogue about solutions that whites can be effective at bringing about.

Sure. But, how do we create a barometer for that? A giant poll? If so, how do we keep everyone honest? Until that magical day, I think we can certainly discuss it as individuals or in small groups.

For example the concept of reparations to repair the wealth gap seems to be a hurdle whites cant quite get over.

It's distribution of wealth, and I don't believe it's just Caucasians that have a problem with it.

"It's distribution of wealth, and I don't believe it's just Caucasians that have a problem with it."

Its not distribution of wealth for a couple of reasons.

1. Its unpaid wages and punitive damages.

2. It requires no monetary loss on the part of caucasians.

As far as anyone else having a problem with reparations that's not my concern.

Unpaid wages and punitive damages?

Who is owed unpaid wages? Who owes them? Who owes punitive damages?

The statute of limitations ran at least 100 years ago. Nobody alive owes and nobody alive is owed.

Of course it will not result in monetary loss to Caucasians. Why would Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Georgians, Turks pay American slave reparations? Unless, of course, they immigrate here and start paying taxes. If it will be taken from taxes (it will), it will be a monetary loss on the part of white people and others who probably never owned slaves or benefited directly from said ownership.

But, I will compromise. I am a BIG proponent of business loans and education. Teach a man to fish...

" Who is owed unpaid wages? Who owes them? Who owes punitive damages? "

The US owes us. Owes us for the period of slavery up to present day due to continued racism.

All whites have benefited from slavery and racism. Thats the whole point of racism.

I respect your opinion, but I see absolutely no truth in it. Expand on this point, and maybe I can see your POV.

Which point? I made 2.

Excuse me for not being clearer. The 'all whites' point you made.

Racism is a system based on race that benefits the race that puts said system into production while at the same time providing a detriment to the other races based on a descending scale. If youre white you simply have zero reasons to be a failure. The system is setup to benefit you.

How is the current system set up to benefit whites over other races? You seem to be operating on outdated information, IMO. We've never been a more merit based economy than we are right now. Racism still exists, but it's taboo because of the ridiculous Politically Correct overcompensation we have going 24/7 currently. Again, IMO.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Its simple. Take the money from the defense budget or any other inflated budget.

You seem to forget we all contribute to said budget. You also seem to forget who holds the purse strings. I see nothing simple about that.

This is why I say dialogue is meaningless without action

Action won't happen without a dialogue and consensus.

Congress holds the purse strings and we all contribute to the entity that is the US.

We cant have dialogue on something we disagree on. Its not a bargaining session. Its money owed.

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Youre simply one person. You wouldn't be able to afford nor would you be expexted to do anything other than keep paying your taxes. Again its not a debate that I need to convince you of. You already understand the history and there are multiple precedents to do any convincing you may feel you personally need.

But the same qualifications apply to you. You weren't directly affected by slavery. Your ancestors might have been, so you feel a debt is owed because of your lineage. It's akin to how our government handles Native American reservations, which is much older than the blight of African slavery in this country. The way our government has dealt with the Native American tribes is a fucking joke. Is that what black people strive to emulate? Fuck no. C'mon. Be realistic.

"You weren't directly affected by slavery."

Who told you I wasnt directly affected by slavery? Do you think hearing my grandmother describe slavery to me left me unaffected? Do you think the dysfunctions in the Black community that came from slavery didnt affect me? Besides its not just slavery. Its the Black codes, Jim Crow, War on Drugs, Mass incarceration etc etc that has affected me.

I disagree with how the US had dealt with the NA's but right now youre trying to tell me that I should have a dialogue with a group of people that could care less about paying me my ancestors wages plus interests as well as punitive damages for racism. If were going to be realistic then we should concentrate on one thing at a time and not bring up something that has nothing to do with Black people.

There is an obvious frustration from both of us on this topic, and it comes from crimes of history that neither of us had a direct hand in. I believe you believe you are owed a debt from our government, which I contribute to in my own way, for crimes my ancestors had no part in.

But, you would have no problem taking from our way over-bloated military budge and giving cheap loans or even grants to black folks to start certain businesses, would you?

Why limit it to just black people?

They want their special carve-out. There you go.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Its simple. Take the money from the defense budget or any other inflated budget.

You seem to forget we all contribute to said budget. You also seem to forget who holds the purse strings. I see nothing simple about that.

This is why I say dialogue is meaningless without action

Action won't happen without a dialogue and consensus.

Congress holds the purse strings and we all contribute to the entity that is the US.

We cant have dialogue on something we disagree on. Its not a bargaining session. Its money owed.

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Youre simply one person. You wouldn't be able to afford nor would you be expexted to do anything other than keep paying your taxes. Again its not a debate that I need to convince you of. You already understand the history and there are multiple precedents to do any convincing you may feel you personally need.

But the same qualifications apply to you. You weren't directly affected by slavery. Your ancestors might have been, so you feel a debt is owed because of your lineage. It's akin to how our government handles Native American reservations, which is much older than the blight of African slavery in this country. The way our government has dealt with the Native American tribes is a fucking joke. Is that what black people strive to emulate? Fuck no. C'mon. Be realistic.

"You weren't directly affected by slavery."

Who told you I wasnt directly affected by slavery? Do you think hearing my grandmother describe slavery to me left me unaffected? Do you think the dysfunctions in the Black community that came from slavery didnt affect me? Besides its not just slavery. Its the Black codes, Jim Crow, War on Drugs, Mass incarceration etc etc that has affected me.

I disagree with how the US had dealt with the NA's but right now youre trying to tell me that I should have a dialogue with a group of people that could care less about paying me my ancestors wages plus interests as well as punitive damages for racism. If were going to be realistic then we should concentrate on one thing at a time and not bring up something that has nothing to do with Black people.

There is an obvious frustration from both of us on this topic, and it comes from crimes of history that neither of us had a direct hand in. I believe you believe you are owed a debt from our government, which I contribute to in my own way, for crimes my ancestors had no part in.

But, you would have no problem taking from our way over-bloated military budge and giving cheap loans or even grants to black folks to start certain businesses, would you?

Why limit it to just black people?

They want their special carve-out. There you go.

That's your own prejudices speaking. I'm not shitting on you for them, because we all got 'em. Lashing out in frustration gets us no closer to any sort of equilibrium. All races have our ugliness. We instinctively try to gloss over them, and it ultimately makes things worse. If we're not brutally honest about them and try to build a dialogue, we're just running in circles, IMO.

 

[Asclepias]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

Therein lies the rub. In the best of times life has its challenges for everyone. Our point is that there shouldn't be a system set up to provide more obstacles based on being melinated.

Indeed. But you seem to see it as a discriminatory system from the get go. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about it, whether imagined or a reality. I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass and pretend we don't still have serious race problems in this country. But you seem to want to gloss over real serious problems I see with my own eyes in the black community. If we are ever going to have a serious dialogue and consensus about dismantling racism, you have to address the racists' concerns too, no matter how icky and ugly they might be. No community consists entirely of angels.

" But you seem to see it as a discriminatory system from the get go. "

Yeah it was a discriminatory system from the get go. Why do you think it wasnt?

The problems in the Black community are a direct result of racism. Its not that I am glossing over anything its more like I am refocusing the conversation on the point. It makes no sense to talk to racists about racism. They are called racists for a reason and its not because they have great intelligence, insight or even a desire to get rid of racism. These are the same people that are claiming they are being discriminated against. If I am going to speak to whites about Black issues it certainly wouldnt be to a racist.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

Therein lies the rub. In the best of times life has its challenges for everyone. Our point is that there shouldn't be a system set up to provide more obstacles based on being melinated.

Indeed. But you seem to see it as a discriminatory system from the get go. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about it, whether imagined or a reality. I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass and pretend we don't still have serious race problems in this country. But you seem to want to gloss over real serious problems I see with my own eyes in the black community. If we are ever going to have a serious dialogue and consensus about dismantling racism, you have to address the racists' concerns too, no matter how icky and ugly they might be. No community consists entirely of angels.

" But you seem to see it as a discriminatory system from the get go. "

Yeah it was a discriminatory system from the get go. Why do you think it wasnt?

The problems in the Black community are a direct result of racism. Its not that I am glossing over anything its more like I am refocusing the conversation on the point. It makes no sense to talk to racists about racism. They are called racists for a reason and its not because they have great intelligence, insight or even a desire to get rid of racism. These are the same people that are claiming they are being discriminated against. If I am going to speak to whites about Black issues it certainly wouldnt be to a racist.

Alright. I'm traveling a couple of hours away to a client right now, and I hate USMB's format on mobile. Damn, it's terrible. I would love to keep going on this topic with you, but it will have to be later on this evening, if you're game.

 

[Norman]

Burning, Looting and Murder... is that reason enough?

 

[Norman]

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Its not you. It's the country.

How come you freely and gladly accept the benefits of the country, but not the downside?

How does that work?

I accept all sides of my reality. My whole life has had it's advantages and challenges. Sure, maybe people might not cross the street if I'm walking towards them (though, they sometimes do) because of how I look, but that is the superficial shit that doesn't affect me getting a job, house or car over anyone else. The shit I have I got based upon my merits. I have absolutely no reason to believe you didn't get it the same way unless you tell me otherwise.

Therein lies the rub. In the best of times life has its challenges for everyone. Our point is that there shouldn't be a system set up to provide more obstacles based on being melinated.

Indeed. But you seem to see it as a discriminatory system from the get go. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about it, whether imagined or a reality. I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass and pretend we don't still have serious race problems in this country. But you seem to want to gloss over real serious problems I see with my own eyes in the black community. If we are ever going to have a serious dialogue and consensus about dismantling racism, you have to address the racists' concerns too, no matter how icky and ugly they might be. No community consists entirely of angels.

" But you seem to see it as a discriminatory system from the get go. "

Yeah it was a discriminatory system from the get go. Why do you think it wasnt?

The problems in the Black community are a direct result of racism. Its not that I am glossing over anything its more like I am refocusing the conversation on the point. It makes no sense to talk to racists about racism. They are called racists for a reason and its not because they have great intelligence, insight or even a desire to get rid of racism. These are the same people that are claiming they are being discriminated against. If I am going to speak to whites about Black issues it certainly wouldnt be to a racist.

Alright. I'm traveling a couple of hours away to a client right now, and I hate USMB's format on mobile. Damn, it's terrible. I would love to keep going on this topic with you, but it will have to be later on this evening, if you're game.

Do you always log on a platform just to take a dump on it low status male?

 

[Asclepias]

Its simple. Take the money from the defense budget or any other inflated budget.

You seem to forget we all contribute to said budget. You also seem to forget who holds the purse strings. I see nothing simple about that.

This is why I say dialogue is meaningless without action

Action won't happen without a dialogue and consensus.

Congress holds the purse strings and we all contribute to the entity that is the US.

We cant have dialogue on something we disagree on. Its not a bargaining session. Its money owed.

You haven't made a case. I don't believe I owe you anything because of the amount of melanin levels we have in our skin. You present me a bill for damages I haven't inflicted.

Youre simply one person. You wouldn't be able to afford nor would you be expexted to do anything other than keep paying your taxes. Again its not a debate that I need to convince you of. You already understand the history and there are multiple precedents to do any convincing you may feel you personally need.

But the same qualifications apply to you. You weren't directly affected by slavery. Your ancestors might have been, so you feel a debt is owed because of your lineage. It's akin to how our government handles Native American reservations, which is much older than the blight of African slavery in this country. The way our government has dealt with the Native American tribes is a fucking joke. Is that what black people strive to emulate? Fuck no. C'mon. Be realistic.

"You weren't directly affected by slavery."

Who told you I wasnt directly affected by slavery? Do you think hearing my grandmother describe slavery to me left me unaffected? Do you think the dysfunctions in the Black community that came from slavery didnt affect me? Besides its not just slavery. Its the Black codes, Jim Crow, War on Drugs, Mass incarceration etc etc that has affected me.

I disagree with how the US had dealt with the NA's but right now youre trying to tell me that I should have a dialogue with a group of people that could care less about paying me my ancestors wages plus interests as well as punitive damages for racism. If were going to be realistic then we should concentrate on one thing at a time and not bring up something that has nothing to do with Black people.

There is an obvious frustration from both of us on this topic, and it comes from crimes of history that neither of us had a direct hand in. I believe you believe you are owed a debt from our government, which I contribute to in my own way, for crimes my ancestors had no part in.

But, you would have no problem taking from our way over-bloated military budge and giving cheap loans or even grants to black folks to start certain businesses, would you?

Why limit it to just black people?

Remember what MLK said.

 

[Asclepias]

Most white americans have a hard time accepting the fact that Blacks have been long terrorized by the police and instead claim its just a few bad apples.

Once again, these folks live in denial. Some people have natural aversions to the icky side of history and attempt to pass along homogenized revisions. All races do this to some degree. Plus, I've lived with white guilt my whole life. It is a bitch and does Caucasians no favors to make inroads sometimes. I don't do white guilt. I don't walk this earth with a balloon over my head that says to minorities: 'see? I'm one of the good ones! Nope, no sir. Not a racist here!'. That's bananas. I believe pandering is a direct insult to everyone's intelligence. Hence, I'm not a big fan of Al Sharpton.

Its going to require a majority of whites coming to the conclusion that racism exists in this country before we can start having a dialogue about solutions that whites can be effective at bringing about.

Sure. But, how do we create a barometer for that? A giant poll? If so, how do we keep everyone honest? Until that magical day, I think we can certainly discuss it as individuals or in small groups.

For example the concept of reparations to repair the wealth gap seems to be a hurdle whites cant quite get over.

It's distribution of wealth, and I don't believe it's just Caucasians that have a problem with it.

"It's distribution of wealth, and I don't believe it's just Caucasians that have a problem with it."

Its not distribution of wealth for a couple of reasons.

1. Its unpaid wages and punitive damages.

2. It requires no monetary loss on the part of caucasians.

As far as anyone else having a problem with reparations that's not my concern.

Unpaid wages and punitive damages?

Who is owed unpaid wages? Who owes them? Who owes punitive damages?

The statute of limitations ran at least 100 years ago. Nobody alive owes and nobody alive is owed.

Of course it will not result in monetary loss to Caucasians. Why would Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Georgians, Turks pay American slave reparations? Unless, of course, they immigrate here and start paying taxes. If it will be taken from taxes (it will), it will be a monetary loss on the part of white people and others who probably never owned slaves or benefited directly from said ownership.

But, I will compromise. I am a BIG proponent of business loans and education. Teach a man to fish...

" Who is owed unpaid wages? Who owes them? Who owes punitive damages? "

The US owes us. Owes us for the period of slavery up to present day due to continued racism.

All whites have benefited from slavery and racism. Thats the whole point of racism.

I respect your opinion, but I see absolutely no truth in it. Expand on this point, and maybe I can see your POV.

Which point? I made 2.

Excuse me for not being clearer. The 'all whites' point you made.

Racism is a system based on race that benefits the race that puts said system into production while at the same time providing a detriment to the other races based on a descending scale. If youre white you simply have zero reasons to be a failure. The system is setup to benefit you.

How is the current system set up to benefit whites over other races? You seem to be operating on outdated information, IMO. We've never been a more merit based economy than we are right now. Racism still exists, but it's taboo because of the ridiculous Politically Correct overcompensation we have going 24/7 currently. Again, IMO.

I have something for you that may help you out. Make time to listen to the entire thing. I havent found a more well put explanation to your question. FF to about 8:00

 

[Ame®icano]

It’s a domestic terrorist organization

Just like the KKK, right? Or are they worse?

They're both Democrat's babies, with the same purpose, to terrorize everyone who doesn't think like them.