Why are we so afraid to admit the obvious?

[Norman]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?

Yes, Stormy Mac, both sides are to blame, not the ONE GUY in the White House spewing daily fear tactics about the scary brown people "massing" at the southern border.

Some day, Stormy Mac, you will get over your obsession that we just need two Republican Parties.

So what's your take on how to defeat the invasion?

Just let the enemy army march in?

Great plan! You don't expect actual Americans to actually follow this plan, do you?

 

[sparky]

Partisanship is bad because the Democrats won't accept his views on stuff.

More would be partisans obfuscate incessantly and breed extreemism on either end of the political spectrum Joe

~S~

 

[Mac1958]

We just need to step back. And be quiet. And listen for a change. Rocket science is easier.

From what I can tell, listening is now considered a sign of weakness and capitulation.

What you're supposed to be doing when the other person is speaking is formulating spin, distortion, hyperbole and personal insults.


For the zillionth time, I start a thread with a specific premise, and a few dozen posters jump right in to prove the premise. This place is absolutely amazing.
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[Moonglow]

Everyone should admit the obvious. We have taken in millions and millions of people to this country who aren't and don't want to be American. Dumbest policy mistake in the history of mankind. We are at a brink of war.

Just think of all the millions that have migrated here that refused to be Indians.

 

[Mac1958]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

We know for a FACT that violence has increased in this country since Trump was elected. When you campaign on hate, violence and division, you are going to attract hateful, violent people that want division. And that's exactly what Trump accomplished.



There is a new arm of the Republican party called the ALT RIGHT because of the manner in which he campaigned, and they showed up in Charlottesville, VA to help him meet his stated goals.

As the official start of the “Unite the Right” rally kicked off in Charlottesville, Virginia, former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke said the gathering of white supremacists, neo-Nazis and far-right individuals pointed to a future fulfillment of President Donald Trump’s “promises.”

David Duke Says White Supremacists Will 'Fulfill' Trump's Promises
Steve Bannon and the alt-right: a primer

So I really don't want to hear the it's on both sides. It's mainly coming from the right wing of the Republican party, whom are incited by Donald Trump.

Another great example of the OP. This thread is crammed with 'em. Thanks.
.

 

[JoeB131]

So what's your take on how to defeat the invasion?

Just let the enemy army march in?

Great plan! You don't expect actual Americans to actually follow this plan, do you?

5000 people most of them kids, is hardly an invasion. It's a poorly attended rock concert.

Nor are these people the "enemy".

More would be partisans obfuscate incessantly and breed extreemism on either end of the political spectrum Joe

Oh, that's BS. The problem here isn't partisanship, it's Trump. Period.

I would love to go back to nice sane discussions between Keynesians and Supply Siders about how to solve our economic problems.

 

[JoeB131]

Another great example of the OP. This thread is crammed with 'em. Thanks.

The Stormy Mac method of discussion.

Put out a hair-brained OP.

Wait for people to point out the huge holes in his OP.

Whine that no one is listening to him and refutations of the OP prove his 'point".

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

 

[Mac1958]

Obviously many miss the obvious here......~S~

Amazing, huh? This place is my own little personal mental Petri dish.

I toss the softball in the air, they whack it over the fence for me.

If you'll excuse the mixed metaphors.
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[JoeB131]

Amazing, huh? This place is my own little personal mental Petri dish.

I toss the softball in the air, they whack it over the fence for me.

If you'll excuse the mixed metaphors.

You know, i met a homeless guy who had the same opinion about the lamppost giving him orders from the CIA!

Whatever gets you through the night, Stormy.

 

[sparky]

believing what politicians tell us is our first mistake, parroting them the 2nd ~S~

 

[JoeB131]

believing what politicians tell us is our first mistake, parroting them the 2nd ~S~

actually, our biggest mistake is lack of engagement.

We treated "picking the leader of the free world" like "Picking the winner of Dancing with the Stars" and we got the result we should expect.

We passed over dozens of highly qualified Democrats and Republicans to pick a Reality TV Rodeo Clown.

And instead of realizing what a horrible mistake we've made, and using the many safeguards in the constitution - The EC, Congress approving election results, impeachment, the 25th Amendment - we have half the country hoping that as long as we get right wing judges and tax cuts for rich people, it's okay to have a madman with his finger on the button.

 

[longknife]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

Because one side is promoting violence and only condemns one side.....the other side (mine) condemns violence from anyone and does not promote it. so to fix the problem, you need to stop promoting violence and start condemning anyone who does it.....it's pretty clear who needs to do that (not my side, they already do that)

For example, actor Jame Cromwell just said if the dems don't win, there will be blood in the streets....Trump has never said anything close to that.....both sides are not the same.

Amen! Right on target.

 

[longknife]

believing what politicians tell us is our first mistake, parroting them the 2nd ~S~

actually, our biggest mistake is lack of engagement.

We treated "picking the leader of the free world" like "Picking the winner of Dancing with the Stars" and we got the result we should expect.

We passed over dozens of highly qualified Democrats and Republicans to pick a Reality TV Rodeo Clown.

And instead of realizing what a horrible mistake we've made, and using the many safeguards in the constitution - The EC, Congress approving election results, impeachment, the 25th Amendment - we have half the country hoping that as long as we get right wing judges and tax cuts for rich people, it's okay to have a madman with his finger on the button.

It's statements like this that do nothing but add to the discord.

 

[JoeB131]

It's statements like this that do nothing but add to the discord.

You know what, you strike me as a lot smarter than the rest of the wingnuts here.

Can you honestly tell me that you don't look at Trump's behavior and think, "Man, that guy is nuts".

Or do you just hope it'll all work out.

 

[sparky]

believing what politicians tell us is our first mistake, parroting them the 2nd ~S~

actually, our biggest mistake is lack of engagement.

We treated "picking the leader of the free world" like "Picking the winner of Dancing with the Stars" and we got the result we should expect.

We passed over dozens of highly qualified Democrats and Republicans to pick a Reality TV Rodeo Clown.

And instead of realizing what a horrible mistake we've made, and using the many safeguards in the constitution - The EC, Congress approving election results, impeachment, the 25th Amendment - we have half the country hoping that as long as we get right wing judges and tax cuts for rich people, it's okay to have a madman with his finger on the button.

That's because we live in an illusion of choice Joe

Oh ,we get to 'pull the lever' , and think we're some collective decision makers, but the choices are all the same , and the outcome OF all those choices have been the same, and will continue to BE the same.

They don't operate for us ,they operate for the elites of this country , when things go China they'll fall back to party lines .

In Reality , the extreemism of TOP and BOTTOM in America by far and large outshines any Right of Left narrative

Which is why they LOVE the R&L debaucheries , all from tools who havn't the horsepower to realize they're conscripts

 

[Mac1958]

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?

Because denial is comfortable, and truth is brutal Mac

Look at all the fundies who have been (predictably) triggered by this thread and are lashing out. In their minds - and I mean this seriously - they convince themselves that I'm claiming the two ends are exactly the same. I've never said that, of course. But, that little lie gives them the license to discount and avoid the entire point, which is their goal.

The LAST thing a fundamentalist from one end wants is to be equated to any degree whatsoever with a fundamentalist from the other end. They freaking HATE those people, and they refuse to see how similar they can be in their behaviors. One of my favorite things here is that I never have to name names, ever. They all rush in to self-identify for me.

So, they go drama queen, change the subject and lash out, as we're seeing. Another of the many similar behaviors is the delightful predictability of reactions like this.
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[sparky]

Yet the polorization continues >>>

 

[ThisIsMe]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

I like your logic and what you are trying to accomplish. I've wondered this myself, however......

The rhetoric has been ramped up and the media is the megaphone for the government agenda. As you can tell by the threads on this forum, the division is set securely in place. I was just thinking about this the other day, if we are too far apart to ever come together, we certainly aren't making any strides toward common ground.

Look at what is happening around the country, people being assaulted and killed because of their race or their political ideology. The people in this country are a ticking time bomb.

 

[Mac1958]

Given the spate of recent violence, the board is understandably abuzz with threads and comments about who is to "blame". And of course, each end is essentially putting 100% of the blame on the other end. Each end is laying out a long list of examples of violence, rhetoric and incitement by the other end.

Guess what? They're both right. Facts are facts.

I have a great deal of respect for the power of ideology. It can make people say and do insane things. It can absolutely blind a person to the obvious. But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

When the hate is flowing from both ends like water from a fire hose, does it really matter which end is "worse"?

What is so terrifying about just admitting the obvious?
.

I like your logic and what you are trying to accomplish. I've wondered this myself, however......

The rhetoric has been ramped up and the media is the megaphone for the government agenda. As you can tell by the threads on this forum, the division is set securely in place. I was just thinking about this the other day, if we are too far apart to ever come together, we certainly aren't making any strides toward common ground.

Look at what is happening around the country, people being assaulted and killed because of their race or their political ideology. The people in this country are a ticking time bomb.

Yeah. The problem as I see it is that "common ground" is no longer the goal. "Beating" the other "side" is. People like you and I make a mistake by assuming that the fundamentalists want healing or cooperation. Once I realized this, much of this started making more sense.

Regarding the media, I refer to the pundits and talk shows and winger websites as "Division Pimps". These people have a clear, vested professional interest in keeping us as angry and divided as possible, so they're constantly stoking the fires. It's working, since we're falling for it.
.

 

[candycorn]

No they just didn't let you get away with the sin of moderation towards the undefensible. You equated apples with oranges.

Feel free to elaborate at any time and in kind, further prove the OP's point.

Shouldn’t the OP be calling out his own tribe if he’s wanting others to do it? Or are you looking past the detail that he refuses to practice what he preaches?

Care to share who he left out? Maybe you need to take a reading test and go back and read his OP again

No they just didn't let you get away with the sin of moderation towards the undefensible. You equated apples with oranges.

Feel free to elaborate at any time and in kind, further prove the OP's point.

Shouldn’t the OP be calling out his own tribe if he’s wanting others to do it? Or are you looking past the detail that he refuses to practice what he preaches?

Care to share who he left out? Maybe you need to take a reading test and go back and read his OP again

Certainly.

His own tribe.

Can I quote the OP to you?

But is it so strong that we'd rather see this country burn down than challenge our own tribe to stop the madness?

Please show me where he challenged his own tribe. So again...Shouldn’t the OP be calling out his own tribe if he’s wanting others to do it? Or are you looking past the detail that he refuses to practice what he preaches?

It’s from the OP. You seemed to have missed it. Reading tests are being administered in your community. You should attend.