CDZ Why aren't we addressing the gun issue as a cultural problem?

[P F Tinmore]

When I was a kid, there were guns all over the place. Eight year old boys got a 22 for their birthday. Family picnics found us out back shooting holes in targets.

We weren't shooting each other so it isn't the guns. It is something else. Let's look for that something else.

Did they have AKs? And belong to hate groups? And the government and IRS were the enemies?

I don't remember seeing any AKs or hate groups.

 

[task0778]

"We weren't shooting each other so it isn't the guns. It is something else. Let's look for that something else."

It's a bunch of things, I think. But the guns are a little bit of the problem, because it's too easy to start shooting somebody if you can readily get your hands on a gun and if you are so inclined. You can hurt or kill so many more people if you have a semi-auto weapon with a whole bunch of bullets, especially if it's been modified to be automatic. And obviously you can't hurt or kill as many if you don't have a gun at all, you can cut, slash, and stab people but not early as many.

So, better background checks and red flag laws might not solve the problem, but they might kinda reduce it a little and that makes it a worthwhile step to take or at least consider. Kinda like Trump's wall, it doesn't solve the problem but it could be a part of the solution. Even if it's just a small part.

 

[justinacolmena]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem.

The Second Amendment is not that complicated.

COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES?

I read that as Socialism, Labor-Union politics, Neo-Nazism, extreme Environmentalism, and apologetic justification for continuing and ongoing acts of industrial sabotage & premeditated murder from the political left.

Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet.

Bread & circuses for overentitled ladies & gentlemen. Opiates for the masses.

We don’t want it.

You’re “looking” at a lot of other people’s personal & private shit you absolutely do not need to know.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

In 1962, the left declared war on American culture. Since that time, the black family has been utterly destroyed, The white family is rapidly following. Traditional values have been eviscerated, the roles of men have been supplanted by the attacks on "toxic masculinity" as well as attacks on the notion of gender, leaving the biologically stronger and more aggressive males without any sort of anchor in society. Respect for the wisdom of elders has long ago been discarded as the media manipulates children such as this fool Hogg to promote the agenda.

We are reaping what you sowed, Mac. Your party has utterly destroyed the American culture that led us to be the most prosperous nation on earth and to win two world wars. The first step to stemming the bleeding would be for people like you to at the very least acknowledge the truth, that your party has waged a prolonged attack on our culture with the intent of destroying this nation.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

In 1962, the left declared war on American culture. Since that time, the black family has been utterly destroyed, The white family is rapidly following. Traditional values have been eviscerated, the roles of men have been supplanted by the attacks on "toxic masculinity" as well as attacks on the notion of gender, leaving the biologically stronger and more aggressive males without any sort of anchor in society. Respect for the wisdom of elders has long ago been discarded as the media manipulates children such as this fool Hogg to promote the agenda.

We are reaping what you sowed, Mac. Your party has utterly destroyed the American culture that led us to be the most prosperous nation on earth and to win two world wars. The first step to stemming the bleeding would be for people like you to at the very least acknowledge the truth, that your party has waged a prolonged attack on our culture with the intent of destroying this nation.

Yes, it's my opinion that the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics. Both are unforgivable sins in my book.

Still, the best and longest-lasting way to deal with large issues is to communicate, collaborate and innovate. It's not a zero sum game. Reasonable, intelligent adults know that.
.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes, it's my opinion that the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics. Both are unforgivable sins in my book.

Still, the best and longest-lasting way to deal with large issues is to communicate, collaborate and innovate. It's not a zero sum game. Reasonable, intelligent adults know that.
.

That may be the problem, reasonable adults are in short supply. Until we rein in the fascist media, there is no hope for reestablishing the culture of the nation.

 

[OldLady]

I'm exhausted. I have one thing to say--well, actually I didn't say it, but I'm sharing it.
.
'No Man is an Island'
No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

MEDITATION XVII
Devotions upon Emergent Occasions
John Donne

 

[Andylusion]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We've said this before. The solution is to have moral values.

I'm baffled by left-wingers who scream about moral relativism, and then act shocked and angry when people live out their lives, like all morals are relative.

We need to return back to the idea that there is absolute truth. That there is moral right, and moral wrong.

Additionally, we need to stop this crap about rehabilitation. The purpose of a penal system, is punishment. We need to get back to the fundamentals of why we have a justice system, which is to exact justice on the evil.

And we need to accept that there is in fact 'evil'. People that bad, need to be shot, and tossed into a grave.

This idea that we can have a painless justice system, where nothing bad happens, and yet magically stops crime, is ridiculous.

Lastly, we need to return to a time where we had a universal respect for authority. The president should never be saying that police are inherently racists. Instead he should uphold officers, and defaulting to their side, until the evidence proves there was a bad officer.

If we do these things, crime will decline, and murder will fall.

 

[task0778]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

In 1962, the left declared war on American culture. Since that time, the black family has been utterly destroyed, The white family is rapidly following. Traditional values have been eviscerated, the roles of men have been supplanted by the attacks on "toxic masculinity" as well as attacks on the notion of gender, leaving the biologically stronger and more aggressive males without any sort of anchor in society. Respect for the wisdom of elders has long ago been discarded as the media manipulates children such as this fool Hogg to promote the agenda.

We are reaping what you sowed, Mac. Your party has utterly destroyed the American culture that led us to be the most prosperous nation on earth and to win two world wars. The first step to stemming the bleeding would be for people like you to at the very least acknowledge the truth, that your party has waged a prolonged attack on our culture with the intent of destroying this nation.

Yes, it's my opinion that the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics. Both are unforgivable sins in my book.

Still, the best and longest-lasting way to deal with large issues is to communicate, collaborate and innovate. It's not a zero sum game. Reasonable, intelligent adults know that.
.

"the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics"

I wouldn't mind a separate conversation about this in another thread, particularly the part about socioeconomics. Not quite understanding it, maybe.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

In 1962, the left declared war on American culture. Since that time, the black family has been utterly destroyed, The white family is rapidly following. Traditional values have been eviscerated, the roles of men have been supplanted by the attacks on "toxic masculinity" as well as attacks on the notion of gender, leaving the biologically stronger and more aggressive males without any sort of anchor in society. Respect for the wisdom of elders has long ago been discarded as the media manipulates children such as this fool Hogg to promote the agenda.

We are reaping what you sowed, Mac. Your party has utterly destroyed the American culture that led us to be the most prosperous nation on earth and to win two world wars. The first step to stemming the bleeding would be for people like you to at the very least acknowledge the truth, that your party has waged a prolonged attack on our culture with the intent of destroying this nation.

Yes, it's my opinion that the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics. Both are unforgivable sins in my book.

Still, the best and longest-lasting way to deal with large issues is to communicate, collaborate and innovate. It's not a zero sum game. Reasonable, intelligent adults know that.
.

"the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics"

I wouldn't mind a separate conversation about this in another thread, particularly the part about socioeconomics. Not quite understanding it, maybe.

Sure, any time.
.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.


I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.

Once again, your premise, as usual, if faulty.

Gun violence is not "cultural". It cuts long all demographics of race, religion, politics, and income levels.

The only problem here is that guns are too easy to get.

The rest of the world has already figured this out.

 

[JoeB131]

The only "cultural problem" we have in relation to the gun issue is how the bed wetters have feminized the culture to the point half the males in the country are afraid of the tool, and unwilling to accept the fact that they're responsible for the security of their communities.

I can't believe there was no one in that Wal-Mart in El Paso that was able to return fire.

Why would you be surprised about that.

The shooting incident in El Paso was over in less than a few minutes..

Before anyone could react...

The problem with a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun is that the bad guy has a plan and doesn't care if he lives or dies. The good guy doesn't have a plan and cares very much about whether he lives or dies.

 

[CHAZBUKOWSKI]

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

I hear this lament all the time, but have never seen it. The last time my kids got participation trophies was at age 6. And if people are so stupid as to have a problem with 4-6 year-olds getting a little medal, then the problem is on them.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Yes, it's my opinion that the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics. Both are unforgivable sins in my book.

Still, the best and longest-lasting way to deal with large issues is to communicate, collaborate and innovate. It's not a zero sum game. Reasonable, intelligent adults know that.
.

That may be the problem, reasonable adults are in short supply. Until we rein in the fascist media, there is no hope for reestablishing the culture of the nation.

Critical thinking is in short supply, and has been for a while. It's the cause of many of our nation's problems.

 

[pismoe]

Yes, it's my opinion that the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics. Both are unforgivable sins in my book.

Still, the best and longest-lasting way to deal with large issues is to communicate, collaborate and innovate. It's not a zero sum game. Reasonable, intelligent adults know that.
.

That may be the problem, reasonable adults are in short supply. Until we rein in the fascist media, there is no hope for reestablishing the culture of the nation.

Critical thinking is in short supply, and has been for a while. It's the cause of many of our nation's problems.

----------------------------------------- agree for the most part and i blame the ill educated from about the mid to late 60s that were schooled in Public Schools TTumbleweed.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Yes, it's my opinion that the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics. Both are unforgivable sins in my book.

Still, the best and longest-lasting way to deal with large issues is to communicate, collaborate and innovate. It's not a zero sum game. Reasonable, intelligent adults know that.
.

That may be the problem, reasonable adults are in short supply. Until we rein in the fascist media, there is no hope for reestablishing the culture of the nation.

Critical thinking is in short supply, and has been for a while. It's the cause of many of our nation's problems.

----------------------------------------- agree for the most part and i blame the ill educated from about the mid to late 60s that were schooled in Public Schools TTumbleweed.

It's a possibility, but even higher education (private college/university) doesn't seem to be turning out too many critical thinkers these days either. Identity politics have begun to overshadow the entire education process.

 

[pismoe]

Yes, it's my opinion that the American Left has wrecked our culture and that the American Right has wrecked our socioeconomics. Both are unforgivable sins in my book.

Still, the best and longest-lasting way to deal with large issues is to communicate, collaborate and innovate. It's not a zero sum game. Reasonable, intelligent adults know that.
.

That may be the problem, reasonable adults are in short supply. Until we rein in the fascist media, there is no hope for reestablishing the culture of the nation.

Critical thinking is in short supply, and has been for a while. It's the cause of many of our nation's problems.

----------------------------------------- agree for the most part and i blame the ill educated from about the mid to late 60s that were schooled in Public Schools TTumbleweed.

It's a possibility, but even higher education (private college/university) doesn't seem to be turning out too many critical thinkers these days either. Identity politics have begun to overshadow the entire education process.

---------------------------------------------------- yep , you are correct .

 

[2aguy]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.


I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.

Once again, your premise, as usual, if faulty.

Gun violence is not "cultural". It cuts long all demographics of race, religion, politics, and income levels.

The only problem here is that guns are too easy to get.

The rest of the world has already figured this out.

That is just not true...

Whites in America own more guns, but have a lower gun murder rate.

Blacks in America own fewer guns but have a higher gun murder rate.

Demographics, race and culture are the issue, not the guns.

 

[2aguy]

The only "cultural problem" we have in relation to the gun issue is how the bed wetters have feminized the culture to the point half the males in the country are afraid of the tool, and unwilling to accept the fact that they're responsible for the security of their communities.

I can't believe there was no one in that Wal-Mart in El Paso that was able to return fire.

Why would you be surprised about that.

The shooting incident in El Paso was over in less than a few minutes..

Before anyone could react...

The problem with a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun is that the bad guy has a plan and doesn't care if he lives or dies. The good guy doesn't have a plan and cares very much about whether he lives or dies.

And yet..in actual shootings....Armed citizens who have their guns at a mass public shooting have been 94% effective......you make things up.....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[2aguy]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.


I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.

Once again, your premise, as usual, if faulty.

Gun violence is not "cultural". It cuts long all demographics of race, religion, politics, and income levels.

The only problem here is that guns are too easy to get.

The rest of the world has already figured this out.

And yet your theory, more guns = more gun crime, does not hold up to actual, real world experience....

Your belief.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of your theory

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong.