Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[JBeukema]

Why do you keep evading?

Why can't you answer a few simple questions?

Is shooting you in the face okay?


If not, why not and and what moment did something change about your fundamental nature change that made killing you in cold blood go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?

Does my right to do as I will with or to my own body and property extend to acts which cause harm to another or does it not?

How old were you when killing you went from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing and why did it suddenly become wrong to kill you?
​

 

[NYcarbineer]

That JPuke is human is yet to be determined.

Beukema is so losing this debate on the merits that if it were a boxing match the ref would have stepped in and stopped it.

He's punch drunk.

The amazing thing about this is I have had this exact same debate in the past with people who made exactly the same sorts of 'arguments' with exactly the same sorts of song and dance and obfuscation and evasion that JB is using - EXACTLY -

and yet I am quite certain the other people the other times were not Beukema.

It's fascinating.

 

[JBeukema]

1160 posts and not a single one of the pro-abortionists can answer a few simple questions:

Is shooting you in the face okay?


If not, why not and and what moment did something change about your fundamental nature change that made killing you in cold blood go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?

How old were you when killing you went from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing and why did it suddenly become wrong to kill you?
​

I answered it about 900 posts ago when I said I support Roe v Wade in principle. The Roe decision explains it quite elaborately.

Have you ever read Roe v Wade?

What principles? Perjury?

The Law should be what it is because it is what it is?

Tell me, in you own words, at what point what changes that makes killing you in cold blood not-okay.


Remember that the Supreme Court also gave us the Dred Scott decision. Just because they say something doesn't mean it's right or has any weight here.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why do you keep evading?

Why can't you answer a few simple questions?

Is shooting you in the face okay?


If not, why not and and what moment did something change about your fundamental nature change that made killing you in cold blood go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?

Does my right to do as I will with or to my own body and property extend to acts which cause harm to another or does it not?

How old were you when killing you went from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing and why did it suddenly become wrong to kill you?
​

I just answered. Go read Roe v. Wade.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1160 posts and not a single one of the pro-abortionists can answer a few simple questions:

I answered it about 900 posts ago when I said I support Roe v Wade in principle. The Roe decision explains it quite elaborately.

Have you ever read Roe v Wade?

What principles? Perjury?

The Law should be what it is because it is what it is?

Tell me, in you own words, at what point what changes that makes killing you in cold blood not-okay.


Remember that the Supreme Court also gave us the Dred Scott decision. Just because they say something doesn't mean it's right or has any weight here.

Just because YOU say something doesn't make it right nor does it have any weight here.

 

[JBeukema]

So your only reason is that Der Staat says so?

 

[JBeukema]

I answered it about 900 posts ago when I said I support Roe v Wade in principle. The Roe decision explains it quite elaborately.

Have you ever read Roe v Wade?

What principles? Perjury?

The Law should be what it is because it is what it is?

Tell me, in you own words, at what point what changes that makes killing you in cold blood not-okay.


Remember that the Supreme Court also gave us the Dred Scott decision. Just because they say something doesn't mean it's right or has any weight here.

Just because YOU say something doesn't make it right nor does it have any weight here.

So you're saying Dred Scott was right?

 

[Cecilie1200]

So you agree that it is a parasite, a parasite that requites the environment of a host. If it is not part of a womans body then it is something alien to herself inhabiting her womb.

Good to know you see it at last.

First of all, a fetus is more of a symbiote than a parasite. Second of all, it's just another example of your extreme dishonesty - the point of this thread - that you think YOU have the right to tell someone ELSE that it's good that they see that the baby isn't the mother's body, when YOU are the one who keeps trumpeting, "A woman has a right to do what she wants with her body".

Thanks for demonstrating yet again how your position is based on nothing but self-serving lies with all your flip-flopping and topic-hopping. "It's a woman's body; no, wait, it's a parasite and separate".

Pathetic.

It is not a symoiote if one half of the equation wants out of the deal its not a symbiotic relationship. A symbiotic relationship requires two willing participants where EACH gets something out of the deal.

Just as the word "life" is not defined by your own personal whims and preference, so the words "symbiote" and "parasite" are not. You REALLY need to get over the idea that the universe shapes itself to your desires, because God complexes are REALLY unattractive.

LOL, i am not the one trying to tell anyone they are wrong or even change anyones opinion. I AM giving my opinion. Though there are many here who are trying to tell people they are wrong or right. JB's last round of flipping is all about it NOT being part of the womans body..do read the thread.

Of course you're not telling anyone they're wrong. That's because the people you disagree with AREN'T wrong, and you have no hard facts on which to accuse them of being wrong. I'm glad to know you realize that everything you've said is your opinion, containing no fact whatsoever, but it would be even nicer if you recognized how little your opinion actually means in the face of fact.

For the record, JB hasn't flipped once. YOU, on the other hand, have made a habit of taking whatever position serves your agenda at the moment, and then airily abandoning it for the opposite if you think THAT will work better.

Hence the thread title "Why Can't the Pro-Abortion Crowd Be Honest?" The answer, of course, is because the truth contradicts their agenda.

A woman does have the right to do what she wants to HER body..and if she wants something out of her body..that is HER choice. Good to know you dont think you have rights over your body.

When in doubt, just fall back on "Abortion should be legal because abortion is legal!" It makes no fucking sense, and makes you sound like a drooling moron, but hey, that's never bothered you before in service to your agenda, so why should it now?

Where have i flipped on any of the topics being discussed in this tread?

Oh, please. You've been stridently screaming about "a woman's body" all along, as just above, and THEN you flip over to "invader alien to her body". Which is it, Ms. Honesty and Logic? Is it okay to abort because it's part of her body, or is it okay to abort because you're having "Aliens" flashbacks?

If it is a life, c- section it out, give it birth at any time in its gestation, and let it have its life to itself.
If it NOT part of a womans body it is a parasite and a woman has the right to take it out of her body.
If it IS part of womans body then she has the right to do what she wants to with HER body.

So basically, you don't HAVE to care about facts, because goddamn it, you're going to do what you want no matter what. Any way you look at it, the ONLY operative point here is that you want to fuck around without consequences.

And then you wonder why your position isn't respected for its honesty and logic.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Again:

I believe it is in society's best interest to allow a woman a reasonable window of opportunity to terminate a pregnancy FOR ANY REASON. I believe that opportunity should be constitutionally protected as a right.

I believe that the first trimester time period of a pregnancy fairly represents that 'window'.

I believe that after the first trimester, it is reasonable to allow the people of the individual states to regulate abortion in any manner they see fit.

Whoever thinks I'm wrong in any of that can step up and say so, and please, tell me what EXACTLY is wrong with my specific views and what your opposing view is specifically.

Otherwise I'll assume no one finds fault in my position.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I find it very sad that you see the first picture not as a developing human being but rather as an utterly disposable 'thing' just because it has not yet developed enough to survive on it's own outside of the womb.

is an egg a chicken? is there no distinction?

or is it just because you have a particular religious view, you think you can impose that view on everyone else?

Excuse me, but are chickens humans? Are they even mammals? Do they have the same reproductive systems and cycles? I don't think so. This is marginally more sensible than the inane comparison of humans and trees, but not by much.

Learn the words "species", "genus", "family", "order", "class", and "phylum", because THAT'S how fucking far back you have to go before humans and chickens are in the same group, imbecile.

 

[JBeukema]

Still haven't seen anyone answer these

Is shooting you in the face okay?


If not, why not and and what moment did something change about your fundamental nature change that made killing you in cold blood go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?

Does my right to do as I will with or to my own body and property extend to acts which cause harm to another or does it not?

How old were you when killing you went from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing and why did it suddenly become wrong to kill you?
​

 

[JBeukema]

Again:

I believe it is in society's best interest to allow a woman a reasonable window of opportunity to terminate a pregnancy FOR ANY REASON.

Why is it best for society to allow homicide for any reason when the victim is very young?

I believe that opportunity should be constitutionally protected as a right.

Why?

I believe that the first trimester time period of a pregnancy fairly represents that 'window'.

Why? What, exactly, changes at the end of the first trimester that makes killing the child in cold blood no longer okay?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Spousal rape was legal until 1993...

Hell, we get the phrase "rule of thumb" from the fact that it was legal to BEAT your wife, as long as you used a stick no bigger around than your thumb.

 

[Cecilie1200]

and ultimately, that is why we all have to stay out of everyone's face on this one.

Should everyone stay out of eachother's face when it comes to detonating a bomb inside an abortion clinic full of people?

As far as your hypo goes, answer it yourself.

At what age, and for what reason, does killing a child in cold blood go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?
Why is it wrong to kill you now if if was okay when you were younger?

Your term "child" is subjective. It is a matter of opinion at what point cells become a "child" and at what point cells have a stand alone life of their own.


The standard LEGAL time now is 14 weeks.

It's only a matter of opinion if you deny all facts in favor of your opinions and what you want to believe.

To anyone HONEST, the word "child" has a set definition, which a fetus meets.

But hey, you've already shown how much facts have to do with your agenda - eg. nothing - so why should one more make a difference?

 

[JBeukema]

Spousal rape was legal until 1993...

Hell, we get the phrase "rule of thumb" from the fact that it was legal to BEAT your wife, as long as you used a stick no bigger around than your thumb.

It would seem the Law can be wrong.

That would seem to make appealing to the law a pretty stupid argument, especially when the question isn't what it is but what it should be.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Do i say not to assist the 4 week old cells once it is outside of its host environment? Do i say new born babies do not require assistance to survive? Do i say children do not need assistance to survive? No, i do not. Just as a baby needs assistance to survive in a new environment I would need assistance to survive in Siberia.

Again, feel free to give all the assistance to 4 week old tissue on a table you want. See if it survives.

If i was given all the assistance i wanted in Siberia...i would survive just fine.

I find it very sad that you see the first picture not as a developing human being but rather as an utterly disposable 'thing' just because it has not yet developed enough to survive on it's own outside of the womb.

And at 4 weeks an embryo is indistinguishable from any other animal embryo.

No, it isn't. Just because YOU are uneducated in embryology (and basic biology) and have no idea what to look for doesn't mean the differences aren't clear. I couldn't tell poison ivy from poison oak from any other plant in the forest, but that doesn't mean they're indistinguishable. It just means I don't know shit about botany.

I'll never understand why people think their personal ignorance is some sort of conclusive debating point.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And I think you have every right to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.

There it is. The perfect phrase for this subject and any other subject. Might even use it as a sigline later on, its so good.

JB is on ignore, but quotes show he still has this fascination of rape.
Went thru it once before physically. Now I get to go thru it again verbally. Ill ask for him to cease. But I wont hold my breath.

Oh, spare me. You come into a public forum, vomit your personal life details all over the place, and then you're horrified that people actually comment on it, and play the victim AGAIN over it?

If anyone's "raping you verbally", you're doing it to yourself by waving your trauma around like a goddamned bloody shirt that's supposed to silence everyone you disagree with. You have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[Anguille]

I'll never understand why people think their personal ignorance is some sort of conclusive debating point.

The clue as to why you will never understand your own personal ignorance should be obvious - even to you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Im becoming very agitated and mean with this subject and I dont like being mean. Im off to find other news stories to discuss.

At least until the next time you decide to come back and start wailing, "I was raped! I'm a victim, so everyone has to SHUT UP! Stop saying things I don't want to hear! Abortion debates are ALL ABOUT ME! Bow before my towering suffering!"

At least we'll all be able to get back to some semblance of rational discussion for a little while.

The only one I said to stfu was to JB.
Link please, where I screamed for everyone to shut the fuck up....otherwise youre a liar and it didnt happen. Go for it. Ill wait.

I have no intention of trying to link multiple pages of you whining about how victimized you are, poor little rape victim, and now anything that's said about abortion is a personal attack on you.

Why would you wait? You said you were leaving. So leave . . . hopefully for a therapy session.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How about this variable? It was time enough for the guy to keep his dick in his pants and since he didnt, had a woody and thought hed show some "power" and "control" and his banty rooster mentality needed to force himself on someone weaker to step up and own what he did, but didnt, and therefore got his sorry ass thrown in jail because what he did was ILLEGAL and called RAPE.

Howzat for variables, insinuations, finger pointing and overall GUESSING scenarios of which nobody knows jack shit about while arguing a point over and over and over and over again?

Seriously, Grace, how about you get some counseling and stop projecting your own emotional issues all over the rest of us? This is not a group-therapy session, and emotional reactions substituting for logical thought is one of the worst sorts of dishonesty around.

The fact that something bad happened to you does not make anything you say on the subject automatically right, nor does it entitle you to shut down any discussion on the topic that you don't like or want to hear. Victimhood does not convey infallibility.

I swear to God, I am not trying to be mean or callous here, but it honestly sounds to me like you've spent a lot of time since the attack with people tiptoeing around you, patting you on the back and saying, "Poor baby, whatever makes you feel better about it", to the point where you've gotten the idea that you have a right to expect that from everyone. You don't, nor do I think it's been helpful, judging by the amount of hatred and bitterness you're spewing all around you.

The truth is, I think the attitudes and perspectives you were taught about pregnancy, abortion, and perhaps femaleness in general, left you badly-equipped to deal with what happened. They don't seem to have offered you any point from which you can gain peace or a positive outlook and move on. If I didn't object to the stridently negative battle cry of "My body, my choice!" for any other reason, I would object to it because of that.

Lastly, you should really get past this whole "No one else can POSSIBLY know how I feel, no one else has suffered like I have!" idea. You don't know any of us in real life, and you have no way of knowing what we've been through, but you should at least be mature enough to know that your experience is, sadly, far from unique.

Actually, I havent thought about it for many years. Did it affect how I am today? In certain ways, yes. But not even my friends know so how can I be asking for pats on the back?

As much as you and other pro lifers want to hear it, it IS my choice what I choose to allow to grow IN my body. Just as its your choice to think its wrong.

Others that did what I did, for the same reasons I did it, WOULD understand the battle of "how do I handle this?". At least, i would hope so.
For the record, since nobody bothered to ask and instead chose to call me a baby killer, I got rid of it because it was an "inconvenience", blah blah blah...I aborted at 4 weeks. Maybe a day later, maybe a day sooner. My doctor and I kept on it until tests could be confirmed because he and I both planned to remove it. As soon as possible. And I did.
IF it were me wishy washing and it had a heart beat (that comes 5 weeks, I believe), I dont know what I would have done. Thats not the point anyway. Yall have your views and opinions just as I have mine. You say I have no right to what grows inside my body that I didnt ask to be put there. I say I do. The problem began when I was attacked by people for not doing what THEY wanted me to do.

Now let me ask this. Those who think its so wrong to abort.....WHAT IF your daughter was 13. Her grandpa raped her and she got pregnant. Would you REALLY insist that your child carry the child made from an incestuous rape because the fetus is alive and a baby and has the right to live even though your daughter screams at the very thought?

Horseshit, Grace. First of all, the way you come barreling into this thread over and over, hollering and moaning tells me you're not even vaguely near the point of "hardly thinking about it", nor do I believe for a second that you've kept it a secret from everyone in your life, given the way you feel compelled to blurt it out to total strangers.

Furthermore, no one called you a baby-killer, because until you forced your issues onto us - speaking of psychic rapes, by the way - no one KNEW to call you one. You and your fucking issues just insisted on making everything personal. Get the fuck over it, and over yourself.

I'm very sure that anyone who made your choices - particularly if they're carrying the same load of unresolved guilt over it - would be using the same rationalization tactics you are. However, you need to understand that not everyone in your position DOES make the same choices, because not everyone thinks those are good and healthy choices. Don't project and assume the whole world shares your perspective.

Let me ask YOU some questions: are ALL of your beliefs subjective? Do they change with circumstance and convenience? Why do you assume that other people can't POSSIBLY truly believe what they say, that yours is the only POSSIBLE reaction under those circumstances?

That's frankly all that needs to be said about your fuzzy emotional logic. Call me when you start thinking with your brain instead of your glands.