Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[misteroboto]

If you really have this sort of confusion over the basic, fundamental issues under debate, you really have no business even wasting everyone else's time in this thread. It's obvious to me that you've never bothered to actually LISTEN to what the other side is saying and what their position is. It's just all you, alone in the echo chamber of your own head.

So go back there.

i dont have any confusion at all - really i was making a statement - its was obvious to a lot of people- and its also obvious why SOME in the RTL crowd seek to used the law to manipulate scenarios with certain legislation- its so they can end run what people who DONT think like them, can do.

this is essentially my problem with the RTL movement and GOP Social Cons - what you cant get at the ballot box ( or popular opinion) is saught by jerry rigging the process so that hopefully you still get your way

the other contradictory crap like how much social ( and fiscal ) cons dont like expanding the role of government as a social engineer, but insist that the law be used to curtail and or limit what people can do socially - well that stuff is just easily seen - and its mostly comedy and or frightening to see them advance their agenda


yeah ive listened to what the other side has said - theyve called women whores - called people who dont hold their view murderers - and basically have offered up all kinds of silly syllogisms about peoples values and how superior RTL people are versus...well everyone else. kids are as much a "item" to them as they claim the other "pro-abortion" people regard them - babies are cute googly bundles that vaporize after a while - ignoring the fact that they eventually grow up and dependeing on where ( and who ) raises them have a lot of issues not only about the conditions under which they are raised but the very system that "took care" of them

 

[Vast LWC]

"Atlas Shrugged" was published in 1957. I think it's done all the "changing the face of American politics" that it's going to. That ship has sailed.

You know what? You're dislike of Ayn Rand vastly improves my opinion of you.

We may strongly disagree on the Abortion subject, but you're all good in my book

 

[misteroboto]

"Atlas Shrugged" was published in 1957. I think it's done all the "changing the face of American politics" that it's going to. That ship has sailed.

You know what? You're dislike of Ayn Rand vastly improves my opinion of you.

We may strongly disagree on the Abortion subject, but you're all good in my book

well rynd has some appeal - i mean if your are sleepless you wont be after picking up one of her books

hm then again you may be more sleepless - wondering what horror would befall us if someone was actually inspired by her writings

oh shit.....

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Atlas Shrugged" was published in 1957. I think it's done all the "changing the face of American politics" that it's going to. That ship has sailed.

You know what? You're dislike of Ayn Rand vastly improves my opinion of you.

We may strongly disagree on the Abortion subject, but you're all good in my book

And I didn't even have to mention that I think she's a very mediocre writer and a nutjob.

 

[taichiliberal]

An embryo is not a human being, it is a collection of cells without consciousness.

There are millions of frozen embryos in labs around the country.

None of them are human beings.

Now this brings up an interesting point.....are frozen embryos or conception induced by frozen sperm part of the anti-abortion litany? Especially the anti-abortion folk claiming to have divine guidance?

 

[Anguille]

Consider that a generalized, blanket "fuck off, moron" to ANYONE it applies to. I don't have time to tell every fucktard on the planet who can't separate fiction from reality to get a life.

Sure about that?

 

[taichiliberal]

Right now you have a budget that reduces funding for social programs that would provide for children services, of which the neocon GOP is very fond of and the idiotic Teabaggers are disappointed at that it's not gone far enough. I wonder how many RTL folk supported that crap?

Oh, and someone wake up fools like Frazzle and remind them that the majority of people on welfare are WHITE SINGLE FEMALE MOTHERS....in case she wants to play the race card again.

 

[Vast LWC]

An embryo is not a human being, it is a collection of cells without consciousness.

There are millions of frozen embryos in labs around the country.

None of them are human beings.

Now this brings up an interesting point.....are frozen embryos or conception induced by frozen sperm part of the anti-abortion litany? Especially the anti-abortion folk claiming to have divine guidance?

Oooh, that is a good point. If someone starts an accidental fire that burns down a frozen-embryo storage facility, are they then going to be culpable for hundreds of incidents of homocide?

 

[taichiliberal]

An embryo is not a human being, it is a collection of cells without consciousness.

There are millions of frozen embryos in labs around the country.

None of them are human beings.

Now this brings up an interesting point.....are frozen embryos or conception induced by frozen sperm part of the anti-abortion litany? Especially the anti-abortion folk claiming to have divine guidance?

Oooh, that is a good point. If someone starts an accidental fire that burns down a frozen-embryo storage facility, are they then going to be culpable for hundreds of incidents of homocide?

Seriously though, one of the Pope's in the last 20 years stated that any form of contraception is a sin....and there was some nonsense about the sin of masturbation, if I recall. So I'd be real interested in the incorporation of modern medical technology in the anti-abortion/religious dogma.

 

[Chris]

An embryo is not a human being, it is a collection of cells without consciousness.

There are millions of frozen embryos in labs around the country.

None of them are human beings.

Now this brings up an interesting point.....are frozen embryos or conception induced by frozen sperm part of the anti-abortion litany? Especially the anti-abortion folk claiming to have divine guidance?

Oooh, that is a good point. If someone starts an accidental fire that burns down a frozen-embryo storage facility, are they then going to be culpable for hundreds of incidents of homocide?

According to the anti abortion idiots, yes.

Don't you remember when George Bush referred to frozen embryos as "snowflake babies?"

 

[taichiliberal]

Now this brings up an interesting point.....are frozen embryos or conception induced by frozen sperm part of the anti-abortion litany? Especially the anti-abortion folk claiming to have divine guidance?

Oooh, that is a good point. If someone starts an accidental fire that burns down a frozen-embryo storage facility, are they then going to be culpable for hundreds of incidents of homocide?

According to the anti abortion idiots, yes.

Don't you remember when George Bush referred to frozen embryos as "snowflake babies?"

 

[Gadawg73]

There was a time when speaking of contraception would get you into trouble.
That was a no no.
Until many Americans, mostly men, understand that even the Founders understood the problems with legislating a women's reproductive system we will never get anywhere.

 

[taichiliberal]

There was a time when speaking of contraception would get you into trouble.
That was a no no.
Until many Americans, mostly men, understand that even the Founders understood the problems with legislating a women's reproductive system we will never get anywhere.

There's nothing in the original Constitution that indicates the Founders even contemplated women's rights as we understand them today....let alone a reproductive system.

Bottom line: the Constitution has evloved and adapted via the Bill of Rights, amendments and SCOTUS rulings which has resulted in Roe versus Wade....we should deal with that rather than detour into "what might have been" speculations.

 

[Gadawg73]

There was a time when speaking of contraception would get you into trouble.
That was a no no.
Until many Americans, mostly men, understand that even the Founders understood the problems with legislating a women's reproductive system we will never get anywhere.

There's nothing in the original Constitution that indicates the Founders even contemplated women's rights as we understand them today....let alone a reproductive system.

Bottom line: the Constitution has evloved and adapted via the Bill of Rights, amendments and SCOTUS rulings which has resulted in Roe versus Wade....we should deal with that rather than detour into "what might have been" speculations.

No shit.
Where has anyone stated anything about "what might have been"?

 

[Vanquish]

You did, actually. Perhaps you didn't know it.

You made a claim that the FF were hands off on women's rights - which you havent substantiated. Until you do...that's what amounts to "what might have been"

 

[AllieBaba]

Right now you have a budget that reduces funding for social programs that would provide for children services, of which the neocon GOP is very fond of and the idiotic Teabaggers are disappointed at that it's not gone far enough. I wonder how many RTL folk supported that crap?

Oh, and someone wake up fools like Frazzle and remind them that the majority of people on welfare are WHITE SINGLE FEMALE MOTHERS....in case she wants to play the race card again.

Actually, the majority of people on welfare are children.

 

[NYcarbineer]

An embryo is not a human being, it is a collection of cells without consciousness.

There are millions of frozen embryos in labs around the country.

None of them are human beings.

Now this brings up an interesting point.....are frozen embryos or conception induced by frozen sperm part of the anti-abortion litany? Especially the anti-abortion folk claiming to have divine guidance?

I brought this up several times in the thread and don't recall getting much other than grumpy silence from the anti-choicers.

The question is:

1. If a lab created fertilized egg is a human being, does its 'human being' status make disposing of it a criminal homicide?

Or, more precisely, should the disposal of it be a criminal homicide, under our laws?

lol, watch the answers pour in...

 

[Vanquish]

I believe I did answer this...so the snide posturing is kinda weird...

I think that the fertilized egg needs to be IN a woman and growing to be life...and therefore no prosecution until it's at that stage.

 

[Anguille]

I believe I did answer this...so the snide posturing is kinda weird...

I think that the fertilized egg needs to be IN a woman and growing to be life...and therefore no prosecution until it's at that stage.

I see. So it's really about the woman after all and about taking control of her body. A fertilized egg is nothing unless it is somewhere where it can be used as a tool to subjugate women.

 

[Ravi]

I believe I did answer this...so the snide posturing is kinda weird...

I think that the fertilized egg needs to be IN a woman and growing to be life...and therefore no prosecution until it's at that stage.

I see. So it's really about the woman after all and about taking control of her body. A fertilized egg is nothing unless it is somewhere where it can be used as a tool to subjugate women.

In his case, absolutely.