Why did Fauci denounce Hydroxychloroquine?

[22lcidw]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

This is the internet and we are left with taking your word for it that you are a physician. That caveat aside, (along with some others), your link suggests not quite "zero effect" if I understand this excerpt correctly;
" ... Patients who received usual care without supplementation achieved a 50% reduction in symptoms at a mean (SD) of 6.7 (4.4) days compared with 5.5 (3.7) days for the ascorbic acid group, 5.9 (4.9) days for the zinc gluconate group, and 5.5 (3.4) days for the group receiving both (overall P = .45). There was no significant difference in secondary outcomes among the treatment groups. "
...

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

~~~~~~~~
6.7 vs 5.9 would suggest something in the range of @20% +/- difference (improvement) by my math. That would seem significant of there is close to a day difference, gain.

You can believe whatever you want about me, but don't make statements about me not giving my credentials if you aren't going to believe what I say anyway. It's fruitless. I expect that the content of my posts would be able to demonstrate I know what I'm talking about.

Case in point, your idea that there isn't a "zero effect". Note the P value of 0.45. It's not significant. There is a high chance that the difference between the groups is due to random chance alone. This is why we aim for lower P values, usually 0.05 which indicates that there is a 5% or less chance that the difference is due to chance. There's far too much overlap in the 95% confidence intervals in these groups.

This is survival. You must die before others. Get your guns people. Load up on ammo. They will keep laughing.

 

[jknowgood]

If we let the elderly and people with low immune systems. Let the healthy lived their lives it wouldn't of been bad.

We aren’t that healthy or a country. It wouldn’t work. You can’t isolate the people with risk factors. You just can’t. It would have been horrendous.

Then why are they saying the lock downs were worse.

We did lockdowns and half a million people still died. How many more dead are you gunning for?

Lockdowns prolonged it.

 

[colfax_m]

Lockdowns prolonged it.

Right. The pandemic would be over by now if we didn't try to protect people from dying. Die faster you jerks! We've got to get back to work!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Too bad for you that drug has been FDA approved for over 60 years.

Not for covid ya dummy. And yes, even FDA approved drugs can have harmful side effects.

 

[Stryder50]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

This is the internet and we are left with taking your word for it that you are a physician. That caveat aside, (along with some others), your link suggests not quite "zero effect" if I understand this excerpt correctly;
" ... Patients who received usual care without supplementation achieved a 50% reduction in symptoms at a mean (SD) of 6.7 (4.4) days compared with 5.5 (3.7) days for the ascorbic acid group, 5.9 (4.9) days for the zinc gluconate group, and 5.5 (3.4) days for the group receiving both (overall P = .45). There was no significant difference in secondary outcomes among the treatment groups. "
...

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

~~~~~~~~
6.7 vs 5.9 would suggest something in the range of @20% +/- difference (improvement) by my math. That would seem significant of there is close to a day difference, gain.

You can believe whatever you want about me, but don't make statements about me not giving my credentials if you aren't going to believe what I say anyway. It's fruitless. I expect that the content of my posts would be able to demonstrate I know what I'm talking about.

Case in point, your idea that there isn't a "zero effect". Note the P value of 0.45. It's not significant. There is a high chance that the difference between the groups is due to random chance alone. This is why we aim for lower P values, usually 0.05 which indicates that there is a 5% or less chance that the difference is due to chance. There's far too much overlap in the 95% confidence intervals in these groups.

I've been active on forums/message boards for a few decades now and have run into a few very good and convincing fakes, so hence my hesitancy of taking claims on the screen at full value.

I don't mind skepticism, but if you're going to be skeptical, don't bother asking in the first place.

I don't offer my credentials because it should be apparent who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't.

The variations of discussions, disputes, debates, and disagreements common to internet forums should show that "apparent" isn't the same or obvious to all.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If we let the elderly and people with low immune systems. Let the healthy lived their lives it wouldn't of been bad.

We aren’t that healthy or a country. It wouldn’t work. You can’t isolate the people with risk factors. You just can’t. It would have been horrendous.

Then why are they saying the lock downs were worse.

We did lockdowns and half a million people still died. How many more dead are you gunning for?

Lockdowns prolonged it.

Nonsense. The Trump cult prolonged it. The incompetent leader prolonged it.

 

[sarahgop]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

QTrump speaks

That an awesome compliment considering he is right about everything. Something interesting happened at the 7/11 today. I saw a guy wearing a BLM shirt so i thought i would compliment him by calling him QBiden. He said if i called him a demented, drooling, hair sniffer again he was going to say i look like AOC. I apologized profusely.

 

[excalibur]

There is no money in HCQ, it has been a generic drug for years. Same with the antibiotics and the zinc recommended to be used along with the HCQ.

 

[jknowgood]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

Trump was right about it all along while you loons were whining about him 24/7.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

This is the internet and we are left with taking your word for it that you are a physician. That caveat aside, (along with some others), your link suggests not quite "zero effect" if I understand this excerpt correctly;
" ... Patients who received usual care without supplementation achieved a 50% reduction in symptoms at a mean (SD) of 6.7 (4.4) days compared with 5.5 (3.7) days for the ascorbic acid group, 5.9 (4.9) days for the zinc gluconate group, and 5.5 (3.4) days for the group receiving both (overall P = .45). There was no significant difference in secondary outcomes among the treatment groups. "
...

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

~~~~~~~~
6.7 vs 5.9 would suggest something in the range of @20% +/- difference (improvement) by my math. That would seem significant of there is close to a day difference, gain.

You can believe whatever you want about me, but don't make statements about me not giving my credentials if you aren't going to believe what I say anyway. It's fruitless. I expect that the content of my posts would be able to demonstrate I know what I'm talking about.

Case in point, your idea that there isn't a "zero effect". Note the P value of 0.45. It's not significant. There is a high chance that the difference between the groups is due to random chance alone. This is why we aim for lower P values, usually 0.05 which indicates that there is a 5% or less chance that the difference is due to chance. There's far too much overlap in the 95% confidence intervals in these groups.

I've been active on forums/message boards for a few decades now and have run into a few very good and convincing fakes, so hence my hesitancy of taking claims on the screen at full value.

I don't mind skepticism, but if you're going to be skeptical, don't bother asking in the first place.

I don't offer my credentials because it should be apparent who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't.

The variations of discussions, disputes, debates, and disagreements common to internet forums should show that "apparent" isn't the same or obvious to all.

Well i suppose that delineates a difference between rational adults and morons/liars.

 

[excalibur]

Nonsense. The Trump cult prolonged it. The incompetent leader prolonged it.

Bullshit.

And I guess Trump prolonged it in Europe or Japan too.

COVID-19 and Travel

CDC travel recommendations during the COVID-19 pandemic.

wwwnc.cdc.gov

TDS Fueled© hate is eating you alive. C'mon, man!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no money in HCQ

tell that to poor oklahoma.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nonsense. The Trump cult prolonged it. The incompetent leader prolonged it.

Bullshit.

And I guess Trump is prolonging it in Europe or Japan too. TDS Fueled© hate is eating you alive. C'mon, man!

Nope, just here. What a stupid question.

 

[excalibur]

Nope, just here. What a stupid question.

Nope, Trump most certainly did not prolong it here. In fact, Operation Warp Speed has given us three vaccines. Orders for 800+ million doses of those vaccines had been ordered under Trump.

 

[bendog]

Without going into when hydroxy was determined to be largely ineffective to treat covid, and that is the medical consensus now, I think the emails Sarah refers to were fairly early on, and possibly even before Trump got the virus himself in an ironic twist ... and was treated with hydroxy.

But the point was that early days, when Trump was treating it like the miracle cure, there wasn't that much around and people were prescribed it for autoimmune conditions. Its not good if they can't get it. And the side effects are nothing to sneeze at (joke). Fauci was probably right in that everybody demanding it for covid may have killed more than the few it may have helped, or it may have had no positive effect at all, and people just got better. And like masks, Fauci may have made a public health call on allocating scarce resources.
But Trumpanzees really don't like Fauci. LOL
ps, as I recall hydroxy gets trotted out repeatedly with "novel" uses.

 

[jknowgood]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

I have to politely disagree with your stupidity. Fauci has been wrong about everything. The virus is going away due to natural immunity and partly because of a vaccine that Biden said wouldnt be available now. Fauci has never followed science and no one can site the science behind snot rags, social distancing or lockups.

My Stupidity??? I'll be blunt here. You're a fucking idiot if you think that ANYTHING Trump did was in anyway helpful. You have the worst covid outcomes in the WORLD. The most disease, the most death, and the worst economic crash. You're not just an idiot if you think Faucci was the problem, you're a total fucking idiot.

Your nation has the worst record of sicknenss, death and economic devastion in the first world, and you have the gall to talk about my "stupidity". I live in a country that had 40% of the illness and death than you fools, and our entire economy wasn't bankrupted to pay for any of it.

We had tests and PPE IN JANUARY. We only had a few hundred cases until we called all the snowbirds home from the USA, and within two weeks of people driving across the border with no testing, we had a full blown out of control pandemic, but we quickly brought it under control, and had a relatively "normal" summer before the Second Wave.

You have a never ending upward trajectory if chaos, sickness, death and incompetence indealing with the pandemic. Every nation which followed the science, and the recommendations of the scientists, had a better outcome than the USA.

Trump's fuckup was he put Fauci in charge. Oh the deaths are down now because they are only counting covid deaths. Instead when Trump was president if you committed suicide with covid. You were counted as dying from covid.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work. That’s why.

It’s really very simple.

You choose to believe science that suits your agenda and ignore science that doesn’t. It really is that simple.

Not at all. When the best evidence unanimously points to it not working, it's time to move on.

Hahahaha. Leftist sheep!

 

[bendog]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

I have to politely disagree with your stupidity. Fauci has been wrong about everything. The virus is going away due to natural immunity and partly because of a vaccine that Biden said wouldnt be available now. Fauci has never followed science and no one can site the science behind snot rags, social distancing or lockups.

My Stupidity??? I'll be blunt here. You're a fucking idiot if you think that ANYTHING Trump did was in anyway helpful. You have the worst covid outcomes in the WORLD. The most disease, the most death, and the worst economic crash. You're not just an idiot if you think Faucci was the problem, you're a total fucking idiot.

Your nation has the worst record of sicknenss, death and economic devastion in the first world, and you have the gall to talk about my "stupidity". I live in a country that had 40% of the illness and death than you fools, and our entire economy wasn't bankrupted to pay for any of it.

We had tests and PPE IN JANUARY. We only had a few hundred cases until we called all the snowbirds home from the USA, and within two weeks of people driving across the border with no testing, we had a full blown out of control pandemic, but we quickly brought it under control, and had a relatively "normal" summer before the Second Wave.

You have a never ending upward trajectory if chaos, sickness, death and incompetence indealing with the pandemic. Every nation which followed the science, and the recommendations of the scientists, had a better outcome than the USA.

Trump's fuckup was he put Fauci in charge. Oh the deaths are down now because they are only counting covid deaths. Instead when Trump was president if you committed suicide with covid. You were counted as dying from covid.

It was scott gotlieb who got Trump to stop fucking around with this a political issue, and get serious.

 

[colfax_m]

Hahahaha. Leftist sheep!

Yes. I’m sure you’re a super independent thinker who has done extensive independent researched and reached your own totally unbiased opinion.

 

[jknowgood]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

I have to politely disagree with your stupidity. Fauci has been wrong about everything. The virus is going away due to natural immunity and partly because of a vaccine that Biden said wouldnt be available now. Fauci has never followed science and no one can site the science behind snot rags, social distancing or lockups.

My Stupidity??? I'll be blunt here. You're a fucking idiot if you think that ANYTHING Trump did was in anyway helpful. You have the worst covid outcomes in the WORLD. The most disease, the most death, and the worst economic crash. You're not just an idiot if you think Faucci was the problem, you're a total fucking idiot.

Your nation has the worst record of sicknenss, death and economic devastion in the first world, and you have the gall to talk about my "stupidity". I live in a country that had 40% of the illness and death than you fools, and our entire economy wasn't bankrupted to pay for any of it.

We had tests and PPE IN JANUARY. We only had a few hundred cases until we called all the snowbirds home from the USA, and within two weeks of people driving across the border with no testing, we had a full blown out of control pandemic, but we quickly brought it under control, and had a relatively "normal" summer before the Second Wave.

You have a never ending upward trajectory if chaos, sickness, death and incompetence indealing with the pandemic. Every nation which followed the science, and the recommendations of the scientists, had a better outcome than the USA.

SPOT ON, Dragon Lady. And let's not even get started on America's embrace and love of mass shootings and military-style guns that can shoot 23 people in less than 6 seconds.

Total of 23 people shot, 2 killed outside Northwest Miami-Dade banquet hall

Victims were rushed to several hospitals in Miami-Dade and Broward counties after a shooting at a banquet hall, some in their personal vehicles, according to police.

www.local10.com