Why did Fauci denounce Hydroxychloroquine?

[Blaine Sweeter]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Does it hurt to be such an idiot? Makes my head hurt for you.

It's time to move on from hydroxychloroquine, scientists say ...​

https://www.sciencenews.org › article › covid-19-coron...
Aug 2, 2020 — An abundance of scientific data shows that the drug isn't an effective COVID-19 treatment. Hydroxychloroquine has been touted by some people ...

Coronavirus: Malaria drug hydroxychloroquine 'does not save ...
https://www.bbc.com › news › health-52937153
Jun 5, 2020 — Hydroxychloroquine has become controversial but it is not a treatment for Covid, say Oxford researchers.

Fact check: Hydroxychloroquine hasn't helped COVID-19 ...​

https://www.usatoday.com › factcheck › 2020/07/21 › f...
Jul 21, 2020 — A tweet shared on Facebook claims that since the pandemic, hydroxychloroquine has saved lives. This statement is not supported by scientific ...

 

[Stryder50]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

This is the internet and we are left with taking your word for it that you are a physician. That caveat aside, (along with some others), your link suggests not quite "zero effect" if I understand this excerpt correctly;
" ... Patients who received usual care without supplementation achieved a 50% reduction in symptoms at a mean (SD) of 6.7 (4.4) days compared with 5.5 (3.7) days for the ascorbic acid group, 5.9 (4.9) days for the zinc gluconate group, and 5.5 (3.4) days for the group receiving both (overall P = .45). There was no significant difference in secondary outcomes among the treatment groups. "
...

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

~~~~~~~~
6.7 vs 5.9 would suggest something in the range of @20% +/- difference (improvement) by my math. That would seem significant if there is close to a day difference, gain.

 

[colfax_m]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

This is the internet and we are left with taking your word for it that you are a physician. That caveat aside, (along with some others), your link suggests not quite "zero effect" if I understand this excerpt correctly;
" ... Patients who received usual care without supplementation achieved a 50% reduction in symptoms at a mean (SD) of 6.7 (4.4) days compared with 5.5 (3.7) days for the ascorbic acid group, 5.9 (4.9) days for the zinc gluconate group, and 5.5 (3.4) days for the group receiving both (overall P = .45). There was no significant difference in secondary outcomes among the treatment groups. "
...

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

~~~~~~~~
6.7 vs 5.9 would suggest something in the range of @20% +/- difference (improvement) by my math. That would seem significant of there is close to a day difference, gain.

You can believe whatever you want about me, but don't make statements about me not giving my credentials if you aren't going to believe what I say anyway. It's fruitless. I expect that the content of my posts would be able to demonstrate I know what I'm talking about.

Case in point, your idea that there isn't a "zero effect". Note the P value of 0.45. It's not significant. There is a high chance that the difference between the groups is due to random chance alone. This is why we aim for lower P values, usually 0.05 which indicates that there is a 5% or less chance that the difference is due to chance. There's far too much overlap in the 95% confidence intervals in these groups.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

he caused fuel prices to rise which causes everything moved to go up.

Biden caused that Texas freeze and the debacle that followed (because Texas GOP refused to invest in infrastructure)?

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

 

[Blaine Sweeter]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

I have to politely disagree with your stupidity. Fauci has been wrong about everything. The virus is going away due to natural immunity and partly because of a vaccine that Biden said wouldnt be available now. Fauci has never followed science and no one can site the science behind snot rags, social distancing or lockups.

My Stupidity??? I'll be blunt here. You're a fucking idiot if you think that ANYTHING Trump did was in anyway helpful. You have the worst covid outcomes in the WORLD. The most disease, the most death, and the worst economic crash. You're not just an idiot if you think Faucci was the problem, you're a total fucking idiot.

Your nation has the worst record of sicknenss, death and economic devastion in the first world, and you have the gall to talk about my "stupidity". I live in a country that had 40% of the illness and death than you fools, and our entire economy wasn't bankrupted to pay for any of it.

We had tests and PPE IN JANUARY. We only had a few hundred cases until we called all the snowbirds home from the USA, and within two weeks of people driving across the border with no testing, we had a full blown out of control pandemic, but we quickly brought it under control, and had a relatively "normal" summer before the Second Wave.

You have a never ending upward trajectory if chaos, sickness, death and incompetence indealing with the pandemic. Every nation which followed the science, and the recommendations of the scientists, had a better outcome than the USA.

SPOT ON, Dragon Lady. And let's not even get started on America's embrace and love of mass shootings and military-style guns that can shoot 23 people in less than 6 seconds.

Total of 23 people shot, 2 killed outside Northwest Miami-Dade banquet hall

Victims were rushed to several hospitals in Miami-Dade and Broward counties after a shooting at a banquet hall, some in their personal vehicles, according to police.

www.local10.com

 

[Nostra]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work. That’s why.

It’s really very simple.

You choose to believe science that suits your agenda and ignore science that doesn’t. It really is that simple.

Not at all. When the best evidence unanimously points to it not working, it's time to move on.

More leftist “settled science” dumbassery.

 

[Stryder50]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

This is the internet and we are left with taking your word for it that you are a physician. That caveat aside, (along with some others), your link suggests not quite "zero effect" if I understand this excerpt correctly;
" ... Patients who received usual care without supplementation achieved a 50% reduction in symptoms at a mean (SD) of 6.7 (4.4) days compared with 5.5 (3.7) days for the ascorbic acid group, 5.9 (4.9) days for the zinc gluconate group, and 5.5 (3.4) days for the group receiving both (overall P = .45). There was no significant difference in secondary outcomes among the treatment groups. "
...

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

~~~~~~~~
6.7 vs 5.9 would suggest something in the range of @20% +/- difference (improvement) by my math. That would seem significant of there is close to a day difference, gain.

You can believe whatever you want about me, but don't make statements about me not giving my credentials if you aren't going to believe what I say anyway. It's fruitless. I expect that the content of my posts would be able to demonstrate I know what I'm talking about.

Case in point, your idea that there isn't a "zero effect". Note the P value of 0.45. It's not significant. There is a high chance that the difference between the groups is due to random chance alone. This is why we aim for lower P values, usually 0.05 which indicates that there is a 5% or less chance that the difference is due to chance. There's far too much overlap in the 95% confidence intervals in these groups.

I've been active on forums/message boards for a few decades now and have run into a few very good and convincing fakes, so hence my hesitancy of taking claims on the screen at full value.

 

[Blaine Sweeter]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

This is the internet and we are left with taking your word for it that you are a physician. That caveat aside, (along with some others), your link suggests not quite "zero effect" if I understand this excerpt correctly;
" ... Patients who received usual care without supplementation achieved a 50% reduction in symptoms at a mean (SD) of 6.7 (4.4) days compared with 5.5 (3.7) days for the ascorbic acid group, 5.9 (4.9) days for the zinc gluconate group, and 5.5 (3.4) days for the group receiving both (overall P = .45). There was no significant difference in secondary outcomes among the treatment groups. "
...

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

~~~~~~~~
6.7 vs 5.9 would suggest something in the range of @20% +/- difference (improvement) by my math. That would seem significant of there is close to a day difference, gain.

You can believe whatever you want about me, but don't make statements about me not giving my credentials if you aren't going to believe what I say anyway. It's fruitless. I expect that the content of my posts would be able to demonstrate I know what I'm talking about.

Case in point, your idea that there isn't a "zero effect". Note the P value of 0.45. It's not significant. There is a high chance that the difference between the groups is due to random chance alone. This is why we aim for lower P values, usually 0.05 which indicates that there is a 5% or less chance that the difference is due to chance. There's far too much overlap in the 95% confidence intervals in these groups.

I've been active on forums/message boards for a few decades now and have run into a few very good and convincing fakes, so hence my hesitancy of taking claims on the screen at full value.

As if anybody here gives a shit.....

 

[sarahgop]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Does it hurt to be such an idiot? Makes my head hurt for you.

It's time to move on from hydroxychloroquine, scientists say ...​

https://www.sciencenews.org › article › covid-19-coron...
Aug 2, 2020 — An abundance of scientific data shows that the drug isn't an effective COVID-19 treatment. Hydroxychloroquine has been touted by some people ...

Coronavirus: Malaria drug hydroxychloroquine 'does not save ...
https://www.bbc.com › news › health-52937153
Jun 5, 2020 — Hydroxychloroquine has become controversial but it is not a treatment for Covid, say Oxford researchers.

Fact check: Hydroxychloroquine hasn't helped COVID-19 ...​

https://www.usatoday.com › factcheck › 2020/07/21 › f...
Jul 21, 2020 — A tweet shared on Facebook claims that since the pandemic, hydroxychloroquine has saved lives. This statement is not supported by scientific ...

Those are all last year when they didnt want anything helping Trump. I know you agree with me that Fauci is rat vomit

 

[Blaine Sweeter]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work. That’s why.

It’s really very simple.

You choose to believe science that suits your agenda and ignore science that doesn’t. It really is that simple.

Not at all. When the best evidence unanimously points to it not working, it's time to move on.

More leftist “settled science” dumbassery.

Oh look, the village idiot finally showed up.

 

[Blaine Sweeter]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Does it hurt to be such an idiot? Makes my head hurt for you.

It's time to move on from hydroxychloroquine, scientists say ...​

https://www.sciencenews.org › article › covid-19-coron...
Aug 2, 2020 — An abundance of scientific data shows that the drug isn't an effective COVID-19 treatment. Hydroxychloroquine has been touted by some people ...

Coronavirus: Malaria drug hydroxychloroquine 'does not save ...
https://www.bbc.com › news › health-52937153
Jun 5, 2020 — Hydroxychloroquine has become controversial but it is not a treatment for Covid, say Oxford researchers.

Fact check: Hydroxychloroquine hasn't helped COVID-19 ...​

https://www.usatoday.com › factcheck › 2020/07/21 › f...
Jul 21, 2020 — A tweet shared on Facebook claims that since the pandemic, hydroxychloroquine has saved lives. This statement is not supported by scientific ...

Those are all last year when they didnt want anything helping Trump. I know you agree with me that Fauci is rat vomit

Post some links to sources saying it does work or sit down and STFU.
You know absolutely nothing about Fauci except what Trump tells you to know.
You're a mindless sock puppet with rat vomit for brains.

 

[Stryder50]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

I have to politely disagree with your stupidity. Fauci has been wrong about everything. The virus is going away due to natural immunity and partly because of a vaccine that Biden said wouldnt be available now. Fauci has never followed science and no one can site the science behind snot rags, social distancing or lockups.

My Stupidity??? I'll be blunt here. You're a fucking idiot if you think that ANYTHING Trump did was in anyway helpful. You have the worst covid outcomes in the WORLD. The most disease, the most death, and the worst economic crash. You're not just an idiot if you think Faucci was the problem, you're a total fucking idiot.

Your nation has the worst record of sicknenss, death and economic devastion in the first world, and you have the gall to talk about my "stupidity". I live in a country that had 40% of the illness and death than you fools, and our entire economy wasn't bankrupted to pay for any of it.

We had tests and PPE IN JANUARY. We only had a few hundred cases until we called all the snowbirds home from the USA, and within two weeks of people driving across the border with no testing, we had a full blown out of control pandemic, but we quickly brought it under control, and had a relatively "normal" summer before the Second Wave.

You have a never ending upward trajectory if chaos, sickness, death and incompetence indealing with the pandemic. Every nation which followed the science, and the recommendations of the scientists, had a better outcome than the USA.

SPOT ON, Dragon Lady. And let's not even get started on America's embrace and love of mass shootings and military-style guns that can shoot 23 people in less than 6 seconds.

Total of 23 people shot, 2 killed outside Northwest Miami-Dade banquet hall

Victims were rushed to several hospitals in Miami-Dade and Broward counties after a shooting at a banquet hall, some in their personal vehicles, according to police.

www.local10.com

Sounds more like an episode of (racial minority?) gang violence if one reads the content of your article/link;
...

Total of 23 people shot, 2 killed outside Northwest Miami-Dade banquet hall​

Police say patrons in crowd returned fire at assailants​

...
MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, Fla. – Miami-Dade police are investigating a deadly mass shooting that left two people dead and 21 others injured in what detectives described as a “targeted act of violence.”

“This is a despicable act of gun violence,” said Miami-Dade Police Director Freddy Ramirez. “A cowardly act.”

According to police, the shooting took place after a birthday party for a local rapper known as ABMG Spitta, whose real name is Courtney Paul Wilson.

Police confirmed that shots were fired back at the three shooters and about 100 shell casings were found at the scene.

“Well, we know now from the evidence that’s coming out is that there was return fire from the patrons when these subjects began firing. There was returned fire. There’s multiple casings throughout the scene that establishes that, however, we don’t know at this time who were the shooters that were returning fire and we don’t know yet,” Ramirez said.
...
According to police, the music stopped just after midnight and patrons were standing outside when three subjects stepped out of a white Nissan Pathfinder SUV with assault rifles and handguns and began shooting indiscriminately into the crowd.

“Typically the crowd is usually rowdy, a fight every other weekend,” said Alex Lanires, who works nearby. “It was a matter of time before something really bad happened and I guess today was that time.”
...

Total of 23 people shot, 2 killed outside Northwest Miami-Dade banquet hall

Victims were rushed to several hospitals in Miami-Dade and Broward counties after a shooting at a banquet hall, some in their personal vehicles, according to police.

www.local10.com

Don't see how this speaks for all Americans nor shows how "we all" 'embrace and love mass shootings'. Does suggest some value in being armed to return fire if fired upon though.

 

[Stryder50]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

This is the internet and we are left with taking your word for it that you are a physician. That caveat aside, (along with some others), your link suggests not quite "zero effect" if I understand this excerpt correctly;
" ... Patients who received usual care without supplementation achieved a 50% reduction in symptoms at a mean (SD) of 6.7 (4.4) days compared with 5.5 (3.7) days for the ascorbic acid group, 5.9 (4.9) days for the zinc gluconate group, and 5.5 (3.4) days for the group receiving both (overall P = .45). There was no significant difference in secondary outcomes among the treatment groups. "
...

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

~~~~~~~~
6.7 vs 5.9 would suggest something in the range of @20% +/- difference (improvement) by my math. That would seem significant of there is close to a day difference, gain.

You can believe whatever you want about me, but don't make statements about me not giving my credentials if you aren't going to believe what I say anyway. It's fruitless. I expect that the content of my posts would be able to demonstrate I know what I'm talking about.

Case in point, your idea that there isn't a "zero effect". Note the P value of 0.45. It's not significant. There is a high chance that the difference between the groups is due to random chance alone. This is why we aim for lower P values, usually 0.05 which indicates that there is a 5% or less chance that the difference is due to chance. There's far too much overlap in the 95% confidence intervals in these groups.

I've been active on forums/message boards for a few decades now and have run into a few very good and convincing fakes, so hence my hesitancy of taking claims on the screen at full value.

As if anybody here gives a shit.....

You've been gazing in the mirror a lot I see, talking back to your reflection.

 

[Stryder50]

Before getting too far into the woods of flame wars, and coming back closer to OP topic, and related generic;

Now proven against coronavirus, mRNA can do so much more​

Now proven against coronavirus, mRNA can do so much more

The messenger RNA technology used to make Moderna's and Pfizer/BioNTech's wildly successful coronavirus vaccines is being tested not only in other vaccines, but as a cancer treatment, gene therapy and more.

www.cnn.com

 

[bendog]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

QTrump speaks

 

[Nostra]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work. That’s why.

It’s really very simple.

You choose to believe science that suits your agenda and ignore science that doesn’t. It really is that simple.

Not at all. When the best evidence unanimously points to it not working, it's time to move on.

More leftist “settled science” dumbassery.

Oh look, the village idiot finally showed up.

No need to announce your arrival.

 

[Batcat]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Because it doesn't work.

Derp.

Obviously you must believe CNN is a reliable news source.

Doctors Weren't Allowed To Use Drug That Would Have Saved Many Lives Just Because They Hated Trump - And Response

www.chattanoogan.com

Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) Infection

Approximately 9 months of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavius-2 (SARS-CoV-2 [COVID-19]) spreading across the globe has led to widespread …

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[colfax_m]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

This is the internet and we are left with taking your word for it that you are a physician. That caveat aside, (along with some others), your link suggests not quite "zero effect" if I understand this excerpt correctly;
" ... Patients who received usual care without supplementation achieved a 50% reduction in symptoms at a mean (SD) of 6.7 (4.4) days compared with 5.5 (3.7) days for the ascorbic acid group, 5.9 (4.9) days for the zinc gluconate group, and 5.5 (3.4) days for the group receiving both (overall P = .45). There was no significant difference in secondary outcomes among the treatment groups. "
...

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

~~~~~~~~
6.7 vs 5.9 would suggest something in the range of @20% +/- difference (improvement) by my math. That would seem significant of there is close to a day difference, gain.

You can believe whatever you want about me, but don't make statements about me not giving my credentials if you aren't going to believe what I say anyway. It's fruitless. I expect that the content of my posts would be able to demonstrate I know what I'm talking about.

Case in point, your idea that there isn't a "zero effect". Note the P value of 0.45. It's not significant. There is a high chance that the difference between the groups is due to random chance alone. This is why we aim for lower P values, usually 0.05 which indicates that there is a 5% or less chance that the difference is due to chance. There's far too much overlap in the 95% confidence intervals in these groups.

I've been active on forums/message boards for a few decades now and have run into a few very good and convincing fakes, so hence my hesitancy of taking claims on the screen at full value.

I don't mind skepticism, but if you're going to be skeptical, don't bother asking in the first place.

I don't offer my credentials because it should be apparent who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't.

 

[colfax_m]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work. That’s why.

It’s really very simple.

You choose to believe science that suits your agenda and ignore science that doesn’t. It really is that simple.

Not at all. When the best evidence unanimously points to it not working, it's time to move on.

More leftist “settled science” dumbassery.

You are more than welcome to conduct your own randomized trial and submit it if you believe in this. But you know, that's hard work and not exactly everyone's cup of tea.

By moving on, I mean practicing physicians move on. The doctors treating COVID aren't going to be using a treatment that has significant evidence going against it.

 

[sarahgop]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work. That’s why.

It’s really very simple.

You choose to believe science that suits your agenda and ignore science that doesn’t. It really is that simple.

Not at all. When the best evidence unanimously points to it not working, it's time to move on.

More leftist “settled science” dumbassery.

Oh look, the village idiot finally showed up.

I thought you showed up awhile back? In any case lets all agree a mongolian slime worm is more honest than Fauci