Why did Fauci denounce Hydroxychloroquine?

[colfax_m]

The key to testing these substances is EARLY treatment, as soon as a positive test is shown, a fact which continually appears to go over your head.

Yeah, there’s a problem with that. The idea that you’re only treating the “early” patients means that the risk of that specific group is already far lower than average.

OF COURSE.

So your solution is to treat nobody?

That problem makes this paper’s interpretation garbage.

My solution is to not use drugs that have no efficacy.

There is absolutely way that any of the synthetic quinine products could be without efficacy for covid-19 treatment.
If nothing else, they are great for reducing fevers.
If the patient does not have over responses from the immune system that need suppressing, that has nothing to do with the fact quinine and its synthetics can help in those circumstances where the patient does have an over immune response.

Sure. Not going to argue with the concept. Thing is, I don’t see why that would be superior to dexamethasone which is widely used after demonstrating benefit in a large randomized controlled clinical trial. Hydroxychloroquine is not a very strong immunosuppressant. If it has an effect, it is likely minuscule.

 

[Dragonlady]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

I have to politely disagree with your stupidity. Fauci has been wrong about everything. The virus is going away due to natural immunity and partly because of a vaccine that Biden said wouldnt be available now. Fauci has never followed science and no one can site the science behind snot rags, social distancing or lockups.

My Stupidity??? I'll be blunt here. You're a fucking idiot if you think that ANYTHING Trump did was in anyway helpful. You have the worst covid outcomes in the WORLD. The most disease, the most death, and the worst economic crash. You're not just an idiot if you think Faucci was the problem, you're a total fucking idiot.

Your nation has the worst record of sicknenss, death and economic devastion in the first world, and you have the gall to talk about my "stupidity". I live in a country that had 40% of the illness and death than you fools, and our entire economy wasn't bankrupted to pay for any of it.

We had tests and PPE IN JANUARY. We only had a few hundred cases until we called all the snowbirds home from the USA, and within two weeks of people driving across the border with no testing, we had a full blown out of control pandemic, but we quickly brought it under control, and had a relatively "normal" summer before the Second Wave.

You have a never ending upward trajectory if chaos, sickness, death and incompetence indealing with the pandemic. Every nation which followed the science, and the recommendations of the scientists, had a better outcome than the USA.

 

[Rigby5]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

Sorry, but even though I am anti-Trump I have to disagree.
I don't blame Fauci too much, but most of what he said was wrong.
But first we have to get terms down so we are talking about the same thing.

First of all, Fauci said that we should follow the rest of the world by "flattening the curve", and that was wrong.
The rest of the world pretty much shut down for weeks and did contact tracing, which is really full quarantine, like we did for Ebola, and is NOT just "flattening the curve". Flattening the curve is never a good idea, does not reduce infection spread, and the situation only gets worse over time. Eventually, flattening the curve widens the epidemic so much that it becomes perpetual and impossible to end without 100% needing immunity, from either vaccination, recovery, or inherent immunity.

Second is that Fauci goofed by claiming we could not go the herd immunity strategy because 2.4 million would then have to die. The mistake there was that almost 90% of those infected were so asymptomatic from inherent immunity, that they were not asking to be tested and therefore not counted. This means the ones they were counting were only the extreme reactions, who were about 100 times more likely to die than the actual average.

Think back over the timeline. If you let the disease spike early, then the greedy virus uses up all the easy hosts and then 12 days later can't find an easy host to switch to, so then dies out completely, with only 60k deaths. But if you slow the initial spike, conserving easy hosts, you can reduce the death toll that month to only 30k instead, but by allowing some easy hosts to not get infected, you ensure the epidemic will survive, and continue to kill 30k each and every month there after, FOREVER. Flattening the curve is well known to prevent any epidemic from ever ending, and is never an appropriate strategy.
There are only 2 strategies and which you choose depends on how lethal an epidemic is.
If it is very lethal, like Ebola, then you do full quarantine as fast as you can. Contract tracing is full quarantine.
If it is not very lethal, like covid-19, then do herd immunity as fast as you can. That can include variolation of the ones likely to survive, so that you end it before the vulnerable get infected.
You can see that speed is of the essence with any infections, so then you NEVER want to flatten the curve, which just gives any infection more time to spread wider and deeper, making an end impossible.

 

[Stryder50]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

 

[Stryder50]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Once again we see fools braying their ignorance for all to hear. Trump, not Dr. Fauci is the cause of the deaths of over 600,000 Americans. That you cannot see this simply indicates how intellectually impoverished you are. There, you heard what I think of your idiocy.

Old Irish saying;
"The longer you live, the sooner you'll die."
None of us are immortal. The question is not "if we'll die" but "when we'll die."

Last time I checked, only about 6% of these deaths were because of COVID alone.
The other 94% had 2-3(or more) co-morbidity meaning they were on short time anyway and only died(sooner) WITH Covid piled on.

So: "That you cannot see this simply indicates how intellectually impoverished you are. There, you heard what I think of your idiocy."

 

[Rigby5]

The key to testing these substances is EARLY treatment, as soon as a positive test is shown, a fact which continually appears to go over your head.

Yeah, there’s a problem with that. The idea that you’re only treating the “early” patients means that the risk of that specific group is already far lower than average.

OF COURSE.

So your solution is to treat nobody?

That problem makes this paper’s interpretation garbage.

My solution is to not use drugs that have no efficacy.

There is absolutely way that any of the synthetic quinine products could be without efficacy for covid-19 treatment.
If nothing else, they are great for reducing fevers.
If the patient does not have over responses from the immune system that need suppressing, that has nothing to do with the fact quinine and its synthetics can help in those circumstances where the patient does have an over immune response.

Sure. Not going to argue with the concept. Thing is, I don’t see why that would be superior to dexamethasone which is widely used after demonstrating benefit in a large randomized controlled clinical trial. Hydroxychloroquine is not a very strong immunosuppressant. If it has an effect, it is likely minuscule.

Good point in that other immuno-suppressants have proven to be better.
{...
Fluvoxamine is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) that is approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorder and is used for other conditions, including depression. Fluvoxamine is not FDA-approved for the treatment of any infection.

Anti-Inflammatory Effect of Fluvoxamine and Rationale for Use in COVID-19​

In a murine sepsis model, fluvoxamine was found to bind to the sigma-1 receptor in immune cells, resulting in reduced production of inflammatory cytokines.1 In an in vitro study of human endothelial cells and macrophages, fluvoxamine reduced the expression of inflammatory genes.2 Further studies are needed to establish whether the anti-inflammatory effects of fluvoxamine observed in nonclinical studies also occur in humans beings and are clinically relevant in the setting of COVID-19.
...}

 

[WEATHER53]

Most likely because it was too effective of an immediate solition
This thing needed to drag on for over a year to effectively hurt Trump and the USA and appear legitimate
Mask loons are Still trying to control Americans choices and behaviors

 

[Dragonlady]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

Sorry, but even though I am anti-Trump I have to disagree.
I don't blame Fauci too much, but most of what he said was wrong.
But first we have to get terms down so we are talking about the same thing.

First of all, Fauci said that we should follow the rest of the world by "flattening the curve", and that was wrong.
The rest of the world pretty much shut down for weeks and did contact tracing, which is really full quarantine, like we did for Ebola, and is NOT just "flattening the curve". Flattening the curve is never a good idea, does not reduce infection spread, and the situation only gets worse over time. Eventually, flattening the curve widens the epidemic so much that it becomes perpetual and impossible to end without 100% needing immunity, from either vaccination, recovery, or inherent immunity.

Second is that Fauci goofed by claiming we could not go the herd immunity strategy because 2.4 million would then have to die. The mistake there was that almost 90% of those infected were so asymptomatic from inherent immunity, that they were not asking to be tested and therefore not counted. This means the ones they were counting were only the extreme reactions, who were about 100 times more likely to die than the actual average.

Think back over the timeline. If you let the disease spike early, then the greedy virus uses up all the easy hosts and then 12 days later can't find an easy host to switch to, so then dies out completely, with only 60k deaths. But if you slow the initial spike, conserving easy hosts, you can reduce the death toll that month to only 30k instead, but by allowing some easy hosts to not get infected, you ensure the epidemic will survive, and continue to kill 30k each and every month there after, FOREVER. Flattening the curve is well known to prevent any epidemic from ever ending, and is never an appropriate strategy.
There are only 2 strategies and which you choose depends on how lethal an epidemic is.
If it is very lethal, like Ebola, then you do full quarantine as fast as you can. Contract tracing is full quarantine.
If it is not very lethal, like covid-19, then do herd immunity as fast as you can. That can include variolation of the ones likely to survive, so that you end it before the vulnerable get infected.
You can see that speed is of the essence with any infections, so then you NEVER want to flatten the curve, which just gives any infection more time to spread wider and deeper, making an end impossible.

Loved the mansplaining of "flattening the curve". Well written bullshit.

I live in a country where we "flattened the curve" very successfully. Then we did EXACTLY the same thing with the second wave. We are quickly headed to "herd immunity" through vaccination, and we did it with much less expense and disruption to our economy over the past year than the USA.

Now we're approaching herd immunity without sickening 10% of the population and spending billions testing and treating 10% of the population, and staying in lockdown for over a year.

AMERICANS, WITH THE MOST ILLNESS AND DEATH IN THE WORLD, LECTURING PEOPLE IN COUNTRIES WITH A FAR MORE SUCCESSFUL RECORD IN HANDLING THE VIRUS RESPONSE, ARE THE MOST UNINTENTIONALLY FUNNY POSTERS ON THE BOARD.

EVERY FUCKING THING TRUMP DID WAS THE WRONG THING, EXCEPT WRITING A CHEQUE FOR THE VACCINES.

 

[Nostra]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

I have to politely disagree with your stupidity. Fauci has been wrong about everything. The virus is going away due to natural immunity and partly because of a vaccine that Biden said wouldnt be available now. Fauci has never followed science and no one can site the science behind snot rags, social distancing or lockups.

My Stupidity??? I'll be blunt here. You're a fucking idiot if you think that ANYTHING Trump did was in anyway helpful. You have the worst covid outcomes in the WORLD. The most disease, the most death, and the worst economic crash. You're not just an idiot if you think Faucci was the problem, you're a total fucking idiot.

Your nation has the worst record of sicknenss, death and economic devastion in the first world, and you have the gall to talk about my "stupidity". I live in a country that had 40% of the illness and death than you fools, and our entire economy wasn't bankrupted to pay for any of it.

We had tests and PPE IN JANUARY. We only had a few hundred cases until we called all the snowbirds home from the USA, and within two weeks of people driving across the border with no testing, we had a full blown out of control pandemic, but we quickly brought it under control, and had a relatively "normal" summer before the Second Wave.

You have a never ending upward trajectory if chaos, sickness, death and incompetence indealing with the pandemic. Every nation which followed the science, and the recommendations of the scientists, had a better outcome than the USA.

You're a fucking idiot if you think that ANYTHING Trump did was in anyway helpful.


So you think getting a vaccine developed in record time that saved millions of lives is nothing.

Oh, and your shithole country has a higher death rate than the USA, Dumbass.

 

[Stryder50]

The key to testing these substances is EARLY treatment, as soon as a positive test is shown, a fact which continually appears to go over your head.

Yeah, there’s a problem with that. The idea that you’re only treating the “early” patients means that the risk of that specific group is already far lower than average.

OF COURSE.

So your solution is to treat nobody?

That problem makes this paper’s interpretation garbage.

My solution is to not use drugs that have no efficacy.

There is absolutely way that any of the synthetic quinine products could be without efficacy for covid-19 treatment.
If nothing else, they are great for reducing fevers.
If the patient does not have over responses from the immune system that need suppressing, that has nothing to do with the fact quinine and its synthetics can help in those circumstances where the patient does have an over immune response.

Sure. Not going to argue with the concept. Thing is, I don’t see why that would be superior to dexamethasone which is widely used after demonstrating benefit in a large randomized controlled clinical trial. Hydroxychloroquine is not a very strong immunosuppressant. If it has an effect, it is likely minuscule.

Good point in that other immuno-suppressants have proven to be better.
{...
Fluvoxamine is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) that is approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorder and is used for other conditions, including depression. Fluvoxamine is not FDA-approved for the treatment of any infection.

Anti-Inflammatory Effect of Fluvoxamine and Rationale for Use in COVID-19​

In a murine sepsis model, fluvoxamine was found to bind to the sigma-1 receptor in immune cells, resulting in reduced production of inflammatory cytokines.1 In an in vitro study of human endothelial cells and macrophages, fluvoxamine reduced the expression of inflammatory genes.2 Further studies are needed to establish whether the anti-inflammatory effects of fluvoxamine observed in nonclinical studies also occur in humans beings and are clinically relevant in the setting of COVID-19.
...}

I'm going to segue - ride the coat-tails - of your post here on a related matter. This thread is partially focused on the topic of alternative~unconventional treatments for illnesses, and I've an example regards my case of prostate cancer to relate here.

About seven years ago my PSA showed a jump, near double number, causing my PCP to recommend seeing a specialist~urologist for further testing and diagnosis. Which I did. That lead to a prostate biopsy [Guys, you do NOT want to do this procedure if you don't have to!]and results were that I did have prostate cancer, but the Gleason was about 5/6 and indications were that it was low level, quasi dormant and not on the grow ~ YET!

While the urologist recommended a wait and see, only act if there was sudden increase in annual PSA, if I wanted to be proactive then conventional medical procedure would be either radiation, chemo, or prostate removal. I opted for the "wait and see" path.

Meanwhile, a friend of mine whom was getting involved with CBD (medical marijuana/hemp compound/molecule) suggested I consider taking such. My review of the limited science/medicine research at that time showed that CBD had promise in showing arresting the growth of cancers when not actually killing such off. So I figured, what the heck, looks like nothing to lose with a try.

Since then, no significant increase in my PSA number nor affect upon urination or erections. Would seem that cancer is arrested for now.

Several months ago my friend/supplier became aware of another component/molecule in marijuana/hemp known as CBG and began to include that in his formulations. I noticed after a couple of weeks of taking this new formula that the minor pain, soreness, and stiffness in my right hand (arthritis) had gone away and my right hand is now back to normal feel and use.

Admittedly this could be seen as anecdotal, but since I wasn't expecting this result, I'd hesitate to assign placebo to it.

Bottom line here is that while any alternative or unconventional medical treatments outside of those endorsed by the so-called "professionals" should be approached with caution and consideration, that doesn't mean such aren't effective.

Note also that about seven years ago CBD wasn't an "over the counter" and popular substance many now find in their pharmacies.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Because it doesn't work.

Derp.

Gee, where did you get your fake medical degree????

New study reveals success of hydroxychloroquine as COVID treatment

Didn’t you know that anyone who registers democrat receives honorary degrees in virology and atmospherics?

 

[Lastamender]

He is part of the deep state that wanted Trump gone and if it worked. Trump would've been praised, couldn't have that.

I think everyone agrees with that. Why is the criminal Fauci still employed?

By everyone, you mean delusional paranoid morons?

You are talking about yourself again.

 

[Stryder50]

Actually informed doctors agree with Trump on hydrochroloquine, but of course you got doctors with an agenda. In which they really don't care for a solution. Got it?

They don’t. There’s a handful of fringe doctors who want to be contrarian.

But in the end, the data doesn’t support it. Informed doctors know the data. They don’t give a shit about what some dumb ass politician says.

Yeah a doctor like Fauci which he hasn't been right yet.

Faucci was right about nearly everything. You fools continue to post like Faucci knew everything about this new disease from Day 1. This was a "novel" virus - brand new, and almost NOTHING was known about it when it hit your shores.

Every optimistic statement by Faucci, had a qualifier. We can achieve A, if we do B and C. You keep saying that "Faucci said A would happen and it didn't". You never mention that Trump failed to do B and C every single time. Instead of pointing to Trump's failures to follow Faucci's advice as the source of the problems, you just say "Faucci lied".

NO HE DID NOT. TRUMP FAILED TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, HE FAILED TO EQUIP THE STATES WITH THE TESTS, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PPE THEY NEEDED, AND HE LIED ENDLESSLY ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

BIDEN FOLLOWED FAUCCI'S ADVICE FROM DAY ONE AND SHUT THIS THING DOWN IN 4 MONTHS.

OTHER COUNTRIES WHO FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE MANAGED TO CONTAIN THE VIRUS WITHOUT WITHOUT SICKENING 10% OF THEIR POPULATION, KILLING HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. YOU COULD HAVE TOO.

BLAME TRUMP. HE WAS THE GUY MAKING ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

Sorry, but even though I am anti-Trump I have to disagree.
I don't blame Fauci too much, but most of what he said was wrong.
But first we have to get terms down so we are talking about the same thing.

First of all, Fauci said that we should follow the rest of the world by "flattening the curve", and that was wrong.
The rest of the world pretty much shut down for weeks and did contact tracing, which is really full quarantine, like we did for Ebola, and is NOT just "flattening the curve". Flattening the curve is never a good idea, does not reduce infection spread, and the situation only gets worse over time. Eventually, flattening the curve widens the epidemic so much that it becomes perpetual and impossible to end without 100% needing immunity, from either vaccination, recovery, or inherent immunity.

Second is that Fauci goofed by claiming we could not go the herd immunity strategy because 2.4 million would then have to die. The mistake there was that almost 90% of those infected were so asymptomatic from inherent immunity, that they were not asking to be tested and therefore not counted. This means the ones they were counting were only the extreme reactions, who were about 100 times more likely to die than the actual average.

Think back over the timeline. If you let the disease spike early, then the greedy virus uses up all the easy hosts and then 12 days later can't find an easy host to switch to, so then dies out completely, with only 60k deaths. But if you slow the initial spike, conserving easy hosts, you can reduce the death toll that month to only 30k instead, but by allowing some easy hosts to not get infected, you ensure the epidemic will survive, and continue to kill 30k each and every month there after, FOREVER. Flattening the curve is well known to prevent any epidemic from ever ending, and is never an appropriate strategy.
There are only 2 strategies and which you choose depends on how lethal an epidemic is.
If it is very lethal, like Ebola, then you do full quarantine as fast as you can. Contract tracing is full quarantine.
If it is not very lethal, like covid-19, then do herd immunity as fast as you can. That can include variolation of the ones likely to survive, so that you end it before the vulnerable get infected.
You can see that speed is of the essence with any infections, so then you NEVER want to flatten the curve, which just gives any infection more time to spread wider and deeper, making an end impossible.

Loved the mansplaining of "flattening the curve". Well written bullshit.

I live in a country where we "flattened the curve" very successfully. Then we did EXACTLY the same thing with the second wave. We are quickly headed to "herd immunity" through vaccination, and we did it with much less expense and disruption to our economy over the past year than the USA.

Now we're approaching herd immunity without sickening 10% of the population and spending billions testing and treating 10% of the population, and staying in lockdown for over a year.

AMERICANS, WITH THE MOST ILLNESS AND DEATH IN THE WORLD, LECTURING PEOPLE IN COUNTRIES WITH A FAR MORE SUCCESSFUL RECORD IN HANDLING THE VIRUS RESPONSE, ARE THE MOST UNINTENTIONALLY FUNNY POSTERS ON THE BOARD.

EVERY FUCKING THING TRUMP DID WAS THE WRONG THING, EXCEPT WRITING A CHEQUE FOR THE VACCINES.

Your TDMTS is showing.

How about blaming CCP-China (and the WHO) for dragging feet and not letting out full disclosure on another disease coming from their nation and foisted upon the world.*

Meanwhile, a reminder that Canada benefits from the economic fallout(and support) from the USA and hasn't our illegal immigrant problems that help complicate matters.

Also a reminder, per our Constitution, the POTUS is not a dictator and has limited powers in this sort of situation, depending upon "the swamp" of our bureaucracies to do their job, supposedly without need of oversight and direction, top down.

* If COVID had not gotten out of CCP-China, the world (and USA) would not have had this problem to deal with in the first place.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I have to politely ask this: If China told Fauci to eat snot burgers, would he? I say yes.

If the orange slob told his cult to take a drug that did nothing to help and might actually hurt them, would they?

We don't have to guess. Yes.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work. That’s why.

It’s really very simple.

You choose to believe science that suits your agenda and ignore science that doesn’t. It really is that simple.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

I have to politely ask this: If China told Fauci to eat snot burgers, would he? I say yes.

If the orange slob told his cult to take a drug that did nothing to help and might actually hurt them, would they?

We don't have to guess. Yes.

Too bad for you that drug has been FDA approved for over 60 years. Now don’t you feel stupid?

 

[colfax_m]

The key to testing these substances is EARLY treatment, as soon as a positive test is shown, a fact which continually appears to go over your head.

Yeah, there’s a problem with that. The idea that you’re only treating the “early” patients means that the risk of that specific group is already far lower than average.

OF COURSE.

So your solution is to treat nobody?

That problem makes this paper’s interpretation garbage.

My solution is to not use drugs that have no efficacy.

There is absolutely way that any of the synthetic quinine products could be without efficacy for covid-19 treatment.
If nothing else, they are great for reducing fevers.
If the patient does not have over responses from the immune system that need suppressing, that has nothing to do with the fact quinine and its synthetics can help in those circumstances where the patient does have an over immune response.

Sure. Not going to argue with the concept. Thing is, I don’t see why that would be superior to dexamethasone which is widely used after demonstrating benefit in a large randomized controlled clinical trial. Hydroxychloroquine is not a very strong immunosuppressant. If it has an effect, it is likely minuscule.

Good point in that other immuno-suppressants have proven to be better.
{...
Fluvoxamine is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) that is approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorder and is used for other conditions, including depression. Fluvoxamine is not FDA-approved for the treatment of any infection.

Anti-Inflammatory Effect of Fluvoxamine and Rationale for Use in COVID-19​

In a murine sepsis model, fluvoxamine was found to bind to the sigma-1 receptor in immune cells, resulting in reduced production of inflammatory cytokines.1 In an in vitro study of human endothelial cells and macrophages, fluvoxamine reduced the expression of inflammatory genes.2 Further studies are needed to establish whether the anti-inflammatory effects of fluvoxamine observed in nonclinical studies also occur in humans beings and are clinically relevant in the setting of COVID-19.
...}

Look, you can find thousands of papers showing "effects" of drugs in mouse models that never pan out under real work circumstances among people. The journals are littered with these papers that never pan out in real life.

 

[colfax_m]

Thanks for showing either your lack of reading comprehension of adherence to your socialist agenda.

Socialist agenda? WTF does that have to do with it?

The paper quoted is yet another observational study. Garbage in. Garbage out.

Because as we too often see, politics tends to trump science on these issues, such as we see in the "environmentalist" agenda of the Left regards the pseudo-science of ACC/AGW.

Your claim of GIGO is one of personal and subjective opinion, not an objective one, and comes from you political bias perspective. Note you provide no credentials in your Profile on this forum yet claim to be a superior judge of science, even though presented with numerous sources from science and medical journals. I suggest that if there is any GIGO, it is from you!

Aren't you letting politics trump science on these issues? It sure seems like it to me. People need to step back and take a look at the whole body of evidence and the strengths of each piece in order to make an assessment. You don't pick a side and then find papers to support it, you only pick a side after a critical evaluation of the evidence.

As far as I'm aware, not a single randomized trial has ever shown any benefit to hydroxychloroquine or zinc. For example here:

Effect of Zinc and Ascorbic Acid on Symptom Length Among Patients With SARS-CoV-2

This randomized clinical trial examines whether high-dose zinc and/or high-dose ascorbic acid reduces the severity or duration of symptoms compared with usual care among ambulatory patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

jamanetwork.com

Zero effect.

The sources just aren't of a sufficient quality or quantity to outweigh the large amount of data that is against the use of hydroxychloroquine. I'm a physician, I've been critically evaluating medical literature my entire career and spent the better part of 14 years of formalized post-secondary education learning how to do so. What you don't do, is you don't pick a paper and wave it around saying it makes you right and ignore everything else. That's just not how it works. You don't chose observational studies over prospective randomized trials. It just doesn't work that way.

I had no problem with hydroxychloroquine. I use it for other indications on occasion. I'm familiar with it. I'm not scared of it. I consider it a very benign drug. We used it in our hospital early in the pandemic, routinely. I had no problem giving it a shot. But when the data didn't provide evidence of it's efficacy, we moved on. What Trump did or didn't say had nothing to do with it.

 

[colfax_m]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work. That’s why.

It’s really very simple.

You choose to believe science that suits your agenda and ignore science that doesn’t. It really is that simple.

Not at all. When the best evidence unanimously points to it not working, it's time to move on.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Did he hate Trump so much he wanted people to die? Is he just a cold blooded killer? Is he just an ignorant boob? Could he make more money by pushing something else? Personally, i think its all of the above but i want to hear from all of you.

All of the above.