why do conservatives care about other peoples abortions?

[AvgGuyIA]

Abortion is legal and yes it is controlling a female if you make it illegal, so get off your high horse

Then we control street thugs who murder. Same thing. I guess you support the carnage.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

History is on my side , if you can not figure out forcing a woman to carry a baby to term is slavery, you are as fucking stupid as democrats who think taxes is charity

A stupid argument. The consenting actions that result in pregnancy is a decision she makes so it's not slavery if she is forced to carry to term. Now another human live is a stake. You're a monster!

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Again why don't you mention The dad? It's slavery to force a woman to carry it to birth and you know it

That fucker had better get a job and support Junior and momma.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If you accept the "legality" that children can be killed for the sake of convenience then that makes you pretty damn guilty.

I think it is morally reprehensible that the state allows the murder of children for the sake of convenience and I don't accept that the filthy government has a right to allow it. The government gets away with it like they get away with a lot of other morally reprehensible things and I am powerless to stop it but I don't accept it.

1) I don't consider fetuses to be "children", and neither do most sensible people, at least not in the first trimester, when 96% of abortions are preformed.

2) The state merely acknowledged reality in 1973. The dirty little secret is that before Roe v. Wade, women had abortions and their doctors wrote something else down on the charts.

3) As much as you find something morally reprehensible, doesn't mean other people do. If people agreed with you that it was, you would have more of an argument.

1. most people do consider unborn humans as humans
2. abortion is murder, it was murder before roe v wade and its murder today
3. a society decides what it considers right and wrong, and it does it by majority vote. So lets put it to a vote, ok?

You are just all about following the leader aren't you? Letting society decide for you what "right" and "wrong" is, and acquiescently embracing the herd's collective subjective opinion by assuming that it equates to some objective truth.


​

in a word, yes. a society that does not operate on democratic principles is either a dictatorship or anarchy. All free democratic societies decide what is to be considered right and wrong based on majority opinion. Our constitution was ratified by majority vote of the states, all of our laws are put in place by majority vote, our representatives are selected by majority vote.

it amazes me that you liberals favor minority control over your lives.

Incorrect.

The United States is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy, whose citizens are subject solely to the rule of law, not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly.

Because we are a Constitutional Republic and not a democracy, citizens' civil rights are not subject to 'majority rule,' the majority is not authorized to determine who will or will not have his civil rights, where we are citizens of the United States first and foremost, and residents of our respective states subordinate to that – as one does not forfeit his civil rights merely as a consequence of his state of residence.

Consequently, the majority of a given state may not compel a woman to have a child against her will, for the state to seek to do so violates the woman's right to privacy and her protected liberty to make personal, private decisions absent unwarranted interference from the state.

What's sad and telling is that so many conservatives are ignorant of the fact that the United States is a Constitutional Republic and not a democracy, and that they wish to expand the size and authority of the state at the expense of individual liberty.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

History is on my side , if you can not figure out forcing a woman to carry a baby to term is slavery, you are as fucking stupid as democrats who think taxes is charity

A stupid argument. The consenting actions that result in pregnancy is a decision she makes so it's not slavery if she is forced to carry to term. Now another human live is a stake. You're a monster!

You advocate that the state be allowed to force a woman to have a child against her will yet you refer to someone else as a 'monster.'

 

[Wyatt earp]

You have a reading comprehension problem? Or didn't I write it simple enough? RW Wants the state to force a woman to term

 

[Talkie]

Why?

I could make the smart ass comment all you are doing is killing off 300,000 potential democrats a year, but I won't.

Why do you care? A right leaning supreme court said it was legal, so why care?

I don't.

It's not just conservatives. It is after all ending a life. Everyone should be uncomfortable with that. With all the forms of birth control why does it so often come to an abortion?

I don't know anyone who likes abortion. In a perfect world, there would be no need for it. We don't live in a perfect world.

We now live in a world where some states teach abstinence only. Which works great up until the person has sex. Studies show that kids who are taught abstinence only are more likely to have sex without any sort of birth control.

These same states have waged a war on Planned Parenthood and women's health clinics. Using abortion as an excuse to hate them and close them down. They're managed to close down a lot of those clinics to the point that there's only one in some states and very few in others.

Those same states didn't expand medicaid and join the exchange. So many women who would qualify for help to pay for insurance don't and remain without it.

When you close down the clinic that makes birth control available and cheap or free, women will get pregnant and some of those women will have abortions. In too many cases those clinics are the only option for women because they don't have insurance. Since they don't have insurance, they can't go to a doctor's office for a prescription for birth control.

It's well documented that abortion is 3% of Planned Parenthood's business. It's also well documented that most of what they do is PREVENT abortion by making reliable birth control available to women who can't afford it or even to go to a doctor's office. So since abortion is only 3% of what Planned Parenthood does, the real reason I can see for the anti freedom people to close the clinics is to prevent women from having reliable birth control.

We see it in their personhood legislation. It makes some forms of birth control illegal. We see conservatives having a total conniption fit that the ACA covers birth control. One conservative business went to court to have the right to deny their employees some forms of birth control.

If a person was honestly against abortion they would want to do anything and everything to prevent unplanned pregnancies. They should be applauding the ACA for making birth control free to women. They should be arguing for the pill to be without a required prescription and available over the counter. They should be on the front lines of making sure all women and men had reliable birth control.

Yet they do the exact opposite.

Best post I have seen on this topic to date. I agree with everything you stated. I am a life long supporter of Planned Parenthood for exactly the reasons you said. And for women's health. Very sensible and logical.

 

[JoeB131]

how about the right to life of the unborn child? Who is looking out for his or her rights? Was the woman forced to have unprotected sex? is she not responsible for her own actions?

Fetuses aren't children. They have no rights.

 

[JoeB131]

Abortion is legal and yes it is controlling a female if you make it illegal, so get off your high horse

Then we control street thugs who murder. Same thing. I guess you support the carnage.

And how would you do that? Would you throw women in jail for having abortions? Because even when abortions were against the law, that was never done.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

DANA7360 SAID:

“I don't know anyone who likes abortion. In a perfect world, there would be no need for it. We don't live in a perfect world.”

Exactly.

No one 'likes' or 'supports' abortion, the conflict concerns how to end the practice, where there are those who seek to end abortion that does not comport with the Constitution and its case law, violating the protected liberty of a woman to decide for herself.

The goal to end abortion should be to render it unnecessary for a woman to make such a decision, not where she's compelled to give birth against her will.

 

[Wry Catcher]

but it's ok for liberals to care (poke their noses) into our Second amendment rights.

believe me, I don't think many care if you liberals abort your offspring. you're the ones who has to live it....best of luck with that

Stephanie

Let them grow up and THEN shoot them, huh?

That's our StoopidStuff for you.

huh?????????????? more [email protected]

Actually, some aren't allowed to grow up - there is a country where a mad man shot and killed a classroom of 5 and 6 year old children. Hard to believe, nothing has been done to prevent another such horrific even though a terrorist organization has decided arming teachers and administrators and taking away the rights of those with mental health issues is the answer.

what rights do those with mental health issues have? the right to murder?
They should have the right to treatment and society should have the right to have them put where they cannot harm others.
you idiots would rather see a classroom of 8 year olds shot than have a teacher shoot a would-be murderer who happened to be mentally ill.

You are a master of the illogical.

The mentally ill have the same rights as do all citizens, and they SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO TREATMENT. Are you willing to pay for the diagnosis and long term humane treatment of the mentally ill? If so you might not be a callous conservative. If you don't, you sure as hell aren't a liberal or a Christian.

"you idiots"? Well, I admit only a callous person would rather see a classroom of children slaughtered rather than allow any infringement to their right to gun ownership. Some are idiots, many are simply assholes who only think of themselves. It goes with their creed: "I got mine, fuck the rest of you!".

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

History is on my side , if you can not figure out forcing a woman to carry a baby to term is slavery, you are as fucking stupid as democrats who think taxes is charity

how about the right to life of the unborn child? Who is looking out for his or her rights? Was the woman forced to have unprotected sex? is she not responsible for her own actions?

Prior to birth, the embryo/fetus has no 'rights':

'[T]the unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in the whole sense." Id., at 162. Accordingly, an abortion is not "the termination of life entitled to Fourteenth Amendment protection."'

Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey 505 U.S. 833 1992

Moreover, the issue is not whether a woman is responsible for her own actions; rather, the issue concerns the extent of the state's authority to infringe upon a woman's right to privacy, where compelling her to have a child against her will violates that protected liberty.

 

[Redfish]

how about the right to life of the unborn child? Who is looking out for his or her rights? Was the woman forced to have unprotected sex? is she not responsible for her own actions?

Fetuses aren't children. They have no rights.

well, thats the central issue isn't it? When does a fetus become a human being? at conception, at 20 weeks, at birth?

But if, as you say, a fetus is not a child, why is someone who murders a pregnant woman charged with two counts of murder?

 

[Redfish]

History is on my side , if you can not figure out forcing a woman to carry a baby to term is slavery, you are as fucking stupid as democrats who think taxes is charity

how about the right to life of the unborn child? Who is looking out for his or her rights? Was the woman forced to have unprotected sex? is she not responsible for her own actions?

Prior to birth, the embryo/fetus has no 'rights':

'[T]the unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in the whole sense." Id., at 162. Accordingly, an abortion is not "the termination of life entitled to Fourteenth Amendment protection."'

Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey 505 U.S. 833 1992

Moreover, the issue is not whether a woman is responsible for her own actions; rather, the issue concerns the extent of the state's authority to infringe upon a woman's right to privacy, where compelling her to have a child against her will violates that protected liberty.

same question for you. Why is a person who murders a pregnant woman charged with two counts of murder?

as to your "compelling to carry to term" argument, how about the rights of the unborn child to have a life? Who speaks for him or her?

 

[Redfish]

but it's ok for liberals to care (poke their noses) into our Second amendment rights.

believe me, I don't think many care if you liberals abort your offspring. you're the ones who has to live it....best of luck with that

Stephanie

Let them grow up and THEN shoot them, huh?

That's our StoopidStuff for you.

huh?????????????? more [email protected]

Actually, some aren't allowed to grow up - there is a country where a mad man shot and killed a classroom of 5 and 6 year old children. Hard to believe, nothing has been done to prevent another such horrific even though a terrorist organization has decided arming teachers and administrators and taking away the rights of those with mental health issues is the answer.

what rights do those with mental health issues have? the right to murder?
They should have the right to treatment and society should have the right to have them put where they cannot harm others.
you idiots would rather see a classroom of 8 year olds shot than have a teacher shoot a would-be murderer who happened to be mentally ill.

You are a master of the illogical.

The mentally ill have the same rights as do all citizens, and they SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO TREATMENT. Are you willing to pay for the diagnosis and long term humane treatment of the mentally ill? If so you might not be a callous conservative. If you don't, you sure as hell aren't a liberal or a Christian.

"you idiots"? Well, I admit only a callous person would rather see a classroom of children slaughtered rather than allow any infringement to their right to gun ownership. Some are idiots, many are simply assholes who only think of themselves. It goes with their creed: "I got mine, fuck the rest of you!".

you are correct about one thing. I am the master of this debate because I have destroyed the arguments of those of you who condone murdering the unborn. I do so with logic, reason, and common sense.

But lets take your argument a step further. Lets say a woman delivers a child that she doesn't want. Using your "logic" she should be permitted to kill that child rather than have to deal with something she does not want to deal with, right?

 

[JoeB131]

well, thats the central issue isn't it? When does a fetus become a human being? at conception, at 20 weeks, at birth?

That's an easy one. It's a baby when the mother decides she wants it.

If she wants it, "I'm having a baby in March!"

If she doesn't want it, "I've got to go to the doctor and take care of that thing on Tuesday."

Easy. Peasy.

But if, as you say, a fetus is not a child, why is someone who murders a pregnant woman charged with two counts of murder?

Because it's a retarded law no one has challenged.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Luddly Neddite I understand The bedroom thing, but please elaborate more in how you feel conservatives want to contol peoples lives? Because I always think it is the liberals

First, I don't think its Conservatives, with an upper case C. Its rabid fundie RWs who want invasive laws controlling women's bodies via birth control and abortion, as well as marriage equality.

There are surely liberals who want to make abortion, bc, gay marriage illegal but I don't know of any. No, its the right that wants invasive laws based on religion aka sharia law.

The ACA seems pretty invasive to me.

Liberals are hypocrites. They say they don't want government telling them what to do and then they support Obamacare , gun control and other measures that control people's lives. Nobody who opposes abortion is controlling somebody's life anymore than if they were opposing random street murder. Murder is illegal and that is a human being thrown in a slop bucket. We have an obligation to stop murder if we can.

Ignorant nonsense.

Liberals correctly understand that although inalienable, our rights are not absolute, and subject to reasonable restrictions by government (see, e.g., DC v Heller (2008)).

The ACA is Constitutional, it doesn't 'force' anyone to do anything. There are gun control measures that are likewise Constitutional, and in no way 'violate' the Second Amendment rights of Americans.

Many conservatives, on the other hand, willfully exhibit contempt for the Constitution and its case law by enacting measures that clearly violate a woman's right to privacy, or a same-sex couple's right to access marriage law.

Privacy right's jurisdiction has been the law of the land for nearly 50 years, yet republican and conservative state lawmakers time and again introduce or enact measures repugnant to the Constitution, only to have those measures appropriately struck down by the courts because they are in fact un-Constitutional.

It's conservatives who, for the most part, exhibit contempt for the civil liberties of Americans, and seek to increase the size and authority of government.

 

[Zoom-boing]

how about the right to life of the unborn child? Who is looking out for his or her rights? Was the woman forced to have unprotected sex? is she not responsible for her own actions?

Fetuses aren't children. They have no rights.

well, thats the central issue isn't it? When does a fetus become a human being? at conception, at 20 weeks, at birth?

But if, as you say, a fetus is not a child, why is someone who murders a pregnant woman charged with two counts of murder?

Pro-choice people are under the delusion that if the unborn is wanted, then it is a human being; if the unborn is not wanted it is nothing more than a blob of cells to be disposed of. Retarded on the highest level.

Oh, I see JoeB posted that very thing.

 

[Zoom-boing]

When a woman has an abortion, what part of her body is no longer there?

 

[JoeB131]

When a woman has an abortion, what part of her body is no longer there?

The part that was keeping her from completing college or getting a promotion at her job.