Why do people hate Liberals?

[oreo]

The one thing about this board that most baffles me is the incredible depth of hatred and contempt for liberals.

The amount of comments from people suggesting all liberals are stupid, anti-patriotic, dumb...you name it. One even suggested liberals don't know what paragraphs are.

I don't get it. And I don't see anything the like the contempt expressed by liberals towards conservatives.

Firstly, the term "liberal" could be used to describe about half of the planet. Like "leftist", it's a fairly cliched catch-all adjective that have little real meaning. It's just too general to be much use.

Secondly, I've met extremely intelligent people from right across the political spectrum - and as many idiots. I've talked to brilliant facists, idiotic conservatives, intelligent communists and brain-dead centrists. I don't see a pattern there at all.

And lastly, why hate liberals when many of the most successful and celebrated administrations have been liberal ones? Were the governments if Clinton, Wilson, FDR, JFK and Truman really so much worse than conservative governments of similar eras?

Liberals have hijacked the democrat party. The democrat party today is not the JFK party of decades ago. Where honorable men didn't continually blame their predecessors. A time when Democrats of decades ago--would roll over in their graves if they witnessed the Occupy Wall Street people of today. A party that understood the basis of this country which stood on principles of economic growth--individual opportunity--and applauded the success of the individual--because they understood that this successful person worked hard to get to where they were in life--and were contributors to our nation--not a drag on it.

And what are we going to witness at the DNC convention. The endorsement of Gay marriage--and pounding the drum of "who's going to pay for someone else's birth control contraceptives."

This while we're suffering from 8.3% unemployment with real unemployment standing at 11% if you count those that no longer receive unemployment benefits. 46 million Americans on food stamps today--with 1 in 5 families living beneath the poverty level. 16 trillion in red ink--with another 5 trillion in interest that is going to be added to this tab in the next decade--literally bankrupting our children and grandchildren's future.

http://anotheridea.org/images/cartoons/200910/20091021.jpg
National debt: Washington's $5 trillion interest bill - Mar. 5, 2012

You kicked to the curb the most experienced candidate (Hillary Clinton) for an inexperienced "community organizer" (whatever that is.) One who continually threatens our most innovative--hardest working--risk taking people in this country with higher taxes--and when he's not doing that--he insults them with--"If you own a business--you didn't build that--someone else made that happen." They in return have tucked in like a turtle waiting for the threat to leave.

COMMENT FROM A DEMOCRAT CEO:

"I'm saying it bluntly, that this administration is the greatest wet blanket to business, progress and job creation in my lifetime. A lot of people don't want to say that. They'll say, 'Oh God, don't be attacking Obama.' Well, this is Obama's deal, and it's Obama that's responsible for this fear in America."

"The guy [Obama] keeps making speeches about redistribution, and maybe 'we ought to do something to businesses that don't invest or hold too much money.' We haven't heard that kind of talk except from pure socialists."

"Business is being hammered. The business community in this country is frightened to death of the weird political philosophy of the president of the United States. Until he's gone, everybody's going to be sitting on their thumbs."

Steve Wynn's Anti-Obama Rant - Is He Right? - CBS News

This is what Liberals have done to the democrat party and to this country.

"When you don't have a record to run on, you need to paint your opponent as someone people should run from"--Barack Obama

 

[Full-Auto]

Please name ONE liberal Republican today?

Both senators from Maine.....

Thats two////////// Do I win>???

 

[American_Jihad]

The one thing about this board that most baffles me is the incredible depth of hatred and contempt for liberals.

The amount of comments from people suggesting all liberals are stupid, anti-patriotic, dumb...you name it. One even suggested liberals don't know what paragraphs are.

I don't get it. And I don't see anything the like the contempt expressed by liberals towards conservatives.

Firstly, the term "liberal" could be used to describe about half of the planet. Like "leftist", it's a fairly cliched catch-all adjective that have little real meaning. It's just too general to be much use.

Secondly, I've met extremely intelligent people from right across the political spectrum - and as many idiots. I've talked to brilliant facists, idiotic conservatives, intelligent communists and brain-dead centrists. I don't see a pattern there at all.

And lastly, why hate liberals when many of the most successful and celebrated administrations have been liberal ones? Were the governments if Clinton, Wilson, FDR, JFK and Truman really so much worse than conservative governments of similar eras?

Liberals have hijacked the democrat party. The democrat party today is not the JFK party of decades ago. Where honorable men didn't continually blame their predecessors. A time when Democrats of decades ago--would roll over in their graves if they witnessed the Occupy Wall Street people of today. A party that understood the basis of this country which stood on principles of economic growth--individual opportunity--and applauded the success of the individual--because they understood that this successful person worked hard to get to where they were in life--and were contributors to our nation--not a drag on it.

And what are we going to witness at the DNC convention. The endorsement of Gay marriage--and pounding the drum of "who's going to pay for someone else's birth control contraceptives."

This while we're suffering from 8.3% unemployment with real unemployment standing at 11% if you count those that no longer receive unemployment benefits. 46 million Americans on food stamps today--with 1 in 5 families living beneath the poverty level. 16 trillion in red ink--with another 5 trillion in interest that is going to be added to this tab in the next decade--literally bankrupting our children and grandchildren's future.

http://anotheridea.org/images/cartoons/200910/20091021.jpg
National debt: Washington's $5 trillion interest bill - Mar. 5, 2012

You kicked to the curb the most experienced candidate (Hillary Clinton) for an inexperienced "community organizer" (whatever that is.) One who continually threatens our most innovative--hardest working--risk taking people in this country with higher taxes--and when he's not doing that--he insults them with--"If you own a business--you didn't build that--someone else made that happen." They in return have tucked in like a turtle waiting for the threat to leave.

COMMENT FROM A DEMOCRAT CEO:

"I'm saying it bluntly, that this administration is the greatest wet blanket to business, progress and job creation in my lifetime. A lot of people don't want to say that. They'll say, 'Oh God, don't be attacking Obama.' Well, this is Obama's deal, and it's Obama that's responsible for this fear in America."

"The guy [Obama] keeps making speeches about redistribution, and maybe 'we ought to do something to businesses that don't invest or hold too much money.' We haven't heard that kind of talk except from pure socialists."

"Business is being hammered. The business community in this country is frightened to death of the weird political philosophy of the president of the United States. Until he's gone, everybody's going to be sitting on their thumbs."

Steve Wynn's Anti-Obama Rant - Is He Right? - CBS News

This is what Liberals have done to the democrat party and to this country.

"When you don't have a record to run on, you need to paint your opponent as someone people should run from"--Barack Obama

"The democrat party today is not the JFK party of decades ago"

You got that right, now they say >> What can my country do for me, where's my free stuff...

 

[oreo]

The one thing about this board that most baffles me is the incredible depth of hatred and contempt for liberals.




Liberals have hijacked the democrat party. The democrat party today is not the JFK party of decades ago. Where honorable men didn't continually blame their predecessors. A time when Democrats of decades ago--would roll over in their graves if they witnessed the Occupy Wall Street people of today. A party that understood the basis of this country which stood on principles of economic growth--individual opportunity--and applauded the success of the individual--because they understood that this successful person worked hard to get to where they were in life--and were contributors to our nation--not a drag on it.

And what are we going to witness at the DNC convention. The endorsement of Gay marriage--and pounding the drum of "who's going to pay for someone else's birth control contraceptives."

This while we're suffering from 8.3% unemployment with real unemployment standing at 11% if you count those that no longer receive unemployment benefits. 46 million Americans on food stamps today--with 1 in 5 families living beneath the poverty level. 16 trillion in red ink--with another 5 trillion in interest that is going to be added to this tab in the next decade--literally bankrupting our children and grandchildren's future.

http://anotheridea.org/images/cartoons/200910/20091021.jpg
National debt: Washington's $5 trillion interest bill - Mar. 5, 2012

You kicked to the curb the most experienced candidate (Hillary Clinton) for an inexperienced "community organizer" (whatever that is.) One who continually threatens our most innovative--hardest working--risk taking people in this country with higher taxes--and when he's not doing that--he insults them with--"If you own a business--you didn't build that--someone else made that happen." They in return have tucked in like a turtle waiting for the threat to leave.

COMMENT FROM A DEMOCRAT CEO:


Steve Wynn's Anti-Obama Rant - Is He Right? - CBS News

This is what Liberals have done to the democrat party and to this country.

"When you don't have a record to run on, you need to paint your opponent as someone people should run from"--Barack Obama

"The democrat party today is not the JFK party of decades ago"

You got that right, now they say >> What can my country do for me, where's my free stuff...

Liberals today--would have crucified JFK for saying that. That filthy RICH son-of-a-bitch had the nerve to tell me to get off my ass and do something for my country.

 

[MarcATL]

I have the utmost respect for the Office of the Presidency but that does not prevent me from criticizing the man that occupies that Office.

I criticize him too, just like I did with the last President. But when some people deliberately make things up, just to criticize him about, that's a red flag for something else going on.

Think about it for a second, what can a President, any President, do within his first 10 days in office, that is significant enough to criticize? In contrast, it took me about a year and a half, before I started criticizing Bush policies.

This just goes to show that they never had anything of substance to criticize Obama on, they started off on the day of his inauguration with a secret meeting on how to break Obama. They never planned on doing anything for the country, not under Obama's watch...only to obstruct and destroy Obama. And they wonder why he's so popular as if the American people can't see through that partisan BS.

*SMH*

 

[Sactowndog]

I don't hate Liberals for thinking they can run my life better then I can. I hate them for trying to do it. All the rest of you can cay you don't hate liberals, but I hate anyone who uses guns and force to coerce me, and that's exactly what the left are doing.

Come on Kaz, the Republicans are no better in this regard. God forbid your a pregnant women or a gay then they are much worse.

Actually from a philosophical point, you could argue the oppression of social conservatives are worse then liberals because while liberals want to own your wallet, social conservatives want to own your body.

However, first, as the tea party has once again shown, social conservatives are not the Republican party, they are a sect of it. Fiscal conservatism woke and re-energized the party, not abortion.

And second, morality laws are harder to implement, easier to ignore and easier to overturn. The affect of liberals eliminating economic freedom has a far, far greater impact on our actual liberty.

I'm not a philosophical libertarian, I'm a pragmatic one. I support that policy which maximizes liberty.

Fundamentally I don't think you and I are that far apart. I suspect if we sat down and had a beer we would reach similar conclusions.

Major differences I see:
1) I am strongly opposed to capital gain tax reductions as I think they are counter-productive in a flat world

2) I think anyone who says they want a market based health care system either doesn't understand economics or has thought about it. I see a market based system of healthcare everyday in animal medicine. In that model animals die because owners chose not to spend the money. That is what happens in a market based model.

3) I think countries can be captured by strong native industries and it is in the countries interest, pro choice and pro liberty to fund and support research that leads to the destruction of those entrenched industries before another country does it to us.

 

[kaz]

Come on Kaz, the Republicans are no better in this regard. God forbid your a pregnant women or a gay then they are much worse.

Actually from a philosophical point, you could argue the oppression of social conservatives are worse then liberals because while liberals want to own your wallet, social conservatives want to own your body.

However, first, as the tea party has once again shown, social conservatives are not the Republican party, they are a sect of it. Fiscal conservatism woke and re-energized the party, not abortion.

And second, morality laws are harder to implement, easier to ignore and easier to overturn. The affect of liberals eliminating economic freedom has a far, far greater impact on our actual liberty.

I'm not a philosophical libertarian, I'm a pragmatic one. I support that policy which maximizes liberty.

About two thirds of the TPM are Teavangelicals.

Yep, social conservatives started a movement that we need to stop focusing on social issues and cut government spending. Gotcha.

Your problem is you only have social conservative talking points from the DNC, so when you have to debate anything else, you have to declare them social conservatives or you're just lost.

 

[kaz]

Fundamentally I don't think you and I are that far apart. I suspect if we sat down and had a beer we would reach similar conclusions.

I agree, I like beer too. The rest not so much.

Major differences I see:
1) I am strongly opposed to capital gain tax reductions as I think they are counter-productive in a flat world

Capital gains are double taxation with corporate tax, high rates drive inefficient economic investing because they prevent people from moving money to more promising stocks and they are pure job killers. And they don't raise revenue because while they raise more money from sales of stocks, the amount of sales plummet. Other then that, you have a point.

2) I think anyone who says they want a market based health care system either doesn't understand economics or has thought about it. I see a market based system of healthcare everyday in animal medicine. In that model animals die because owners chose not to spend the money. That is what happens in a market based model.

Economics in medicine won't work because people won't bankrupt themselves for animals, so... Hmm, didn't follow the rest.

Obamacare is taking an industry that was being smothering under government and fixing it by strangling them.

3) I think countries can be captured by strong native industries and it is in the countries interest, pro choice and pro liberty to fund and support research that leads to the destruction of those entrenched industries before another country does it to us.

Countries do that by freeing their industry from government so they do it efficiently. Politicians make political decisions. Like in the military where they can't close bases, can't move bases and they get weapon systems they don't want for pure political reasons. Sure, that's how we'll build an industrial giant in this country. Actually the more government keeps getting involved the worse it gets. But that's only if you believe crap like facts and data and stuff like that...

 

[Sactowndog]

Fundamentally I don't think you and I are that far apart. I suspect if we sat down and had a beer we would reach similar conclusions.

I agree, I like beer too. The rest not so much.

Major differences I see:
1) I am strongly opposed to capital gain tax reductions as I think they are counter-productive in a flat world

Capital gains are double taxation with corporate tax, high rates drive inefficient economic investing because they prevent people from moving money to more promising stocks and they are pure job killers. And they don't raise revenue because while they raise more money from sales of stocks, the amount of sales plummet. Other then that, you have a point.

Capital gains taxes are only double taxation if you have corporate income tax which in my view should be eliminated. Corporations are not immortal people.

The capital gains tax reductions are completely anti-libertarian because in today's world they create free loaders on the system. The initial theory is you provide a lower tax in exchange for investment that creates jobs. But that theory now fails in global markets where investors can and do routinely invest in one country and live in another. With no capital gains rate the investor is free loading off the system because he isn't paying taxes and isn't generating US jobs. It is a much better and more libertarian model to set capital gains at the income tax rate and eliminate corporate income tax. In that model you reward investors no matter where they live.

My problem with today's Republican libertarians is the are adamately against providing the poor a free ride but are quite fine with doing so for the wealthy or corporations.

 

[Sactowndog]

Fundamentally I don't think you and I are that far apart. I suspect if we sat down and had a beer we would reach similar conclusions.

I agree, I like beer too. The rest not so much.

2) I think anyone who says they want a market based health care system either doesn't understand economics or has thought about it. I see a market based system of healthcare everyday in animal medicine. In that model animals die because owners chose not to spend the money. That is what happens in a market based model.

Economics in medicine won't work because people won't bankrupt themselves for animals, so... Hmm, didn't follow the rest.

Obamacare is taking an industry that was being smothering under government and fixing it by strangling them.

Have you taken a Macroeconomics course? Demand curves require people to exit the market at any given price point. That happens in animal medicine all the time. If fluffy's surgery is 2000 and I decide I can't or don't want to pay 2000 fluffy dies. That is market based health care.

We don't do that with humans which means we have a flat demand curve that doesn't move based on price for much of medicine. As a result, with no demand curve to constrain prices we have double digit price inflation in health care and we spend 1.8 times the next most expensive country on a per capita basis.

Obamacare is not perfect and not the system I would chose but returning to the old model is far worse unless we are willing to stop free loading and let the who can't or won't pay exit the market via death.

 

[Sactowndog]

Fundamentally I don't think you and I are that far apart. I suspect if we sat down and had a beer we would reach similar conclusions.

I agree, I like beer too. The rest not so much.

3) I think countries can be captured by strong native industries and it is in the countries interest, pro choice and pro liberty to fund and support research that leads to the destruction of those entrenched industries before another country does it to us.

Countries do that by freeing their industry from government so they do it efficiently. Politicians make political decisions. Like in the military where they can't close bases, can't move bases and they get weapon systems they don't want for pure political reasons. Sure, that's how we'll build an industrial giant in this country. Actually the more government keeps getting involved the worse it gets. But that's only if you believe crap like facts and data and stuff like that...

Having worked in Congress and in a major fortune 500 firm if you only worry about freeing industry from government then you only fear loss of liberty on the left. I also fear freeing government from industry which is equally a risk. We have seen as many facist states as communist states over the years.

Your like the vigilant soldier who only watches in one direction only to get blind sided and killed from an attack coming from the other direction. We are no longer an Agrarian society. If you value your liberty you had better guard against both and right now the danger from the right is far greater.

 

[Billo_Really]

Capital gains taxes are only double taxation if you have corporate income tax which in my view should be eliminated.

From what I understand, it depends on how you file your corporation.

Whether you file as a Type-S corporation, or a Type-C corporation.

Corporations are not immortal people.

Corporations aren't people at all. They are an entity that exists only on paper.

I'll believe corporations are people the day Texas executes one.

The capital gains tax reductions are completely anti-libertarian because in today's world they create free loaders on the system. The initial theory is you provide a lower tax in exchange for investment that creates jobs. But that theory now fails in global markets where investors can and do routinely invest in one country and live in another. With no capital gains rate the investor is free loading off the system because he isn't paying taxes and isn't generating US jobs. It is a much better and more libertarian model to set capital gains at the income tax rate and eliminate corporate income tax. In that model you reward investors no matter where they live.

Capital gains and stock dividends make up the majority of their yearly income. I think it's about 54%. And it's just disgusting seeing them pay 15% tax on that shit, when I'm stuck paying 25% on mine.

My problem with today's Republican libertarians is the are adamately against providing the poor a free ride but are quite fine with doing so for the wealthy or corporations.

Re-distribution of wealth is a reality. Unfortunately, it's going up, not down.

 

[kaz]

The capital gains tax reductions are completely anti-libertarian

Tax cuts are "completely anti-libertarian?" Thanks for explaining my views to me.

Hmm...I'm against a tax cut. I'm against a tax cut. I'm trying, but nope, I'm not getting it...

When we do eliminate the corporate tax, then we can talk about the gains rate. But a better solution is the fair tax, which is very libertarian even if the head up their ass Libertarians are against it.

 

[kaz]

Having worked in Congress and in a major fortune 500 firm if you only worry about freeing industry from government then you only fear loss of liberty on the left. I also fear freeing government from industry which is equally a risk. We have seen as many facist states as communist states over the years

Having spent my career in GE Management (11 years) and Management Consulting (9 years) doing strategy work for Fortune 500 companies, before going entrepreneurial and owning my own businesses (3), only government can corrupt free markets because they are the only entity with guns and the power to implement unilateral rules and shut down competition by force. When companies lobby government, it is still government that's corrupting the market, and your solution of the problem of companies lobbying government being to make government stronger is ... let's go with ... counterintuitive ...

 

[kaz]

it's just disgusting seeing them pay 15% tax on that shit, when I'm stuck paying 25% on mine.

Let's see, corporate tax + 15% > 25% easily.

And is 25% your effective rate or your marginal rate?

 

[Billo_Really]

Having spent my career in GE Management (11 years) and Management Consulting (9 years) doing strategy work for Fortune 500 companies, before going entrepreneurial and owning my own businesses (3), only government can corrupt free markets because they are the only entity with guns and the power to implement unilateral rules and shut down competition by force. When companies lobby government, it is still government that's corrupting the market, and your solution of the problem of companies lobbying government being to make government stronger is ... let's go with ... counterintuitive ...

The problem with that is when companies "become" the government. Did you know, there are more Blackwater security forces in Iraq, than there are US troops? Are you aware of all the intelligence agencies that have sprung up since 9/11? Or that we have privatized our prison system? Which explains why we have more people locked up than any country in history.

It's no secret we lost manufacturing jobs overseas. But we've also lost many that remained here. Did you know that 100% of the manufacturing of military helmuts is done with prison labor?

The people in government are puppets for the corporate oligarchy. Government might have the guns, but the multi-nationals tell them where to point.

 

[Sactowndog]

The capital gains tax reductions are completely anti-libertarian

Tax cuts are "completely anti-libertarian?" Thanks for explaining my views to me.

Hmm...I'm against a tax cut. I'm against a tax cut. I'm trying, but nope, I'm not getting it...

When we do eliminate the corporate tax, then we can talk about the gains rate. But a better solution is the fair tax, which is very libertarian even if the head up their ass Libertarians are against it.

The essence of libertarianism is being against those who generate a free ride by lobbying the government. Providing zero capital gains tax to an investor who is investing and creating jobs in China is the definition of a free ride. If you can't see that than you aren't a libertarian you're a right wing wealthy apologist like the rest of them. Which is fine we have lots of them in our country.

 

[Billo_Really]

Let's see, corporate tax + 15% > 25% easily.

And is 25% your effective rate or your marginal rate?

Actually, it's closer to 30%. That's the amount of money that comes out of my paycheck that I don't get.

And I don't want to see anyone paying less than me.

 

[kaz]

Having spent my career in GE Management (11 years) and Management Consulting (9 years) doing strategy work for Fortune 500 companies, before going entrepreneurial and owning my own businesses (3), only government can corrupt free markets because they are the only entity with guns and the power to implement unilateral rules and shut down competition by force. When companies lobby government, it is still government that's corrupting the market, and your solution of the problem of companies lobbying government being to make government stronger is ... let's go with ... counterintuitive ...

The problem with that is when companies "become" the government. Did you know, there are more Blackwater security forces in Iraq, than there are US troops? Are you aware of all the intelligence agencies that have sprung up since 9/11? Or that we have privatized our prison system? Which explains why we have more people locked up than any country in history.

It's no secret we lost manufacturing jobs overseas. But we've also lost many that remained here. Did you know that 100% of the manufacturing of military helmuts is done with prison labor?

The people in government are puppets for the corporate oligarchy. Government might have the guns, but the multi-nationals tell them where to point.

Ironic you lecture me with a point I addressed in the post you quoted.

 

[kaz]

The capital gains tax reductions are completely anti-libertarian

Tax cuts are "completely anti-libertarian?" Thanks for explaining my views to me.

Hmm...I'm against a tax cut. I'm against a tax cut. I'm trying, but nope, I'm not getting it...

When we do eliminate the corporate tax, then we can talk about the gains rate. But a better solution is the fair tax, which is very libertarian even if the head up their ass Libertarians are against it.

The essence of libertarianism is being against those who generate a free ride by lobbying the government. Providing zero capital gains tax to an investor who is investing and creating jobs in China is the definition of a free ride. If you can't see that than you aren't a libertarian you're a right wing wealthy apologist like the rest of them. Which is fine we have lots of them in our country.

Again, I like being lectured by a non-libertarian about what I believe. And with points that neither I nor any other libertarian believe.

You said: "The essence of libertarianism is being against those who generate a free ride by lobbying the government."

Actually: The essence of libertarianism is limiting government. What you are describing is mutually assured destruction. Well the dragon ate my kid, we have to feed his kid to the dragon to make it ... fair! No, we have to slay the dragon.