Why do the God-haters persist?

[PostmodernProph]

6 days is 6 fucking days, no ifs, ands or buts.

you and the Rev. Phelps agree.....

Why? 6 days doesn't mean 6 days? Feel a need to move the goalposts so that the fairy tales ring truer?

how can we move them while you and the Rev. Phelps keep pouring concrete.....

 

[BillyP]

you and the Rev. Phelps agree.....

Why? 6 days doesn't mean 6 days? Feel a need to move the goalposts so that the fairy tales ring truer?

how can we move them while you and the Rev. Phelps keep pouring concrete.....

Good. Don't forget it.

 

[sealybobo]

When Percival Lowell first set out to observe Mars he made details maps of canals as he perceived them through the best instruments available at the time.

Better instruments have shown Mars in greater detail ending speculations about canals.

In the same way your brain is an instrument apparently with a clouded lens or is out of focus distracted by your own brains limitations and inability to conceive of anything beyond the the things of the physical realm including time or existence without any need for doing, a necessity for the continuation of life in the physical realm..

The most likely truth is not that there is no God, but that you have yet to develop an instrument capable of perceiving him as he is.

Sorry wrong. Notice if you ask a bunch of smart people, you'll find more atheists than if you ask a bunch of poor dumb hicks. 99% of the poor dumb hicks all believe.

And I did believe at one time. Also, it's not that your brain is smart and can conceive of a god and mine can't. I'm hearing your stories and they all sound so fucking stupid. You aren't deep you are reaching.

And notice when god came and spoke to man? a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

Just because what 99% of people believe about God and the stories in the bible cannot possibly be literally true that does not preclude the existence of a superior being or realm of conscious existence that is not of this world.

Only after he purified his mind from all of the irrational superstitions and degrading practices that he was forced to believe and imitate since birth was Abraham able to perceive and interact with the living God.

And it may not be that God simply disappeared. The story of Abraham is a story of an atheist who speculated that if there was a God he must be a living being and could not be a statue made by human hands that has no life. Historically, people seem to have preferred darkness to light, superstitions and self important rituals and ceremonies to truth and reality. God didn't necessarily disappear as much as people get lost in the darkness and blindness of confusion as a consequence...


the greatest obstacle you face is your overinflated opinion of your own perceptions, reasoning ability, and conclusions which makes it impossible for you to consider something as unbelievable as that you see no proof of God because you have an inferior instrument covered in cobwebs of resentments and hostility through either choice or neglect..

Like all theists you are able to dismiss the 999 logical arguments why there is no god. Why/how is that possible? Because you want to believe or you can not imagine there is no god. Sorry to disappoint you but spoiler alert!! when you die, there is no god or heaven. We made that stuff up. Wishful thinking.

My dad is not an educated man. He doesn't know anything about science. He says, "there has to be a god". He doesn't buy into any organized religions even though we were raised christian/greek orthodox. He admits that he doesn't believe that people who don't believe in jesus will burn in hell. Lets just put it that way. He admits the bible was written by men. He gets all that. But still he says there must be a god. How could this world be so perfect. We need the cows, the chickens, air, the sun, water, blbblabla. He says there's no way all this happened on its own. There must be a god he says.

And when I explain to him sciences argument against his theory he says, "then science is stupid".

His reasons for belief are rooted in ignorance. There must be a god? Why must there be? That's not a sound reasonable rational or logical argument.

It doesn't seem to matter to theists that all of their arguments are bad ones.

 

[thanatos144]

Sorry wrong. Notice if you ask a bunch of smart people, you'll find more atheists than if you ask a bunch of poor dumb hicks. 99% of the poor dumb hicks all believe.

And I did believe at one time. Also, it's not that your brain is smart and can conceive of a god and mine can't. I'm hearing your stories and they all sound so fucking stupid. You aren't deep you are reaching.

And notice when god came and spoke to man? a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

Just because what 99% of people believe about God and the stories in the bible cannot possibly be literally true that does not preclude the existence of a superior being or realm of conscious existence that is not of this world.

Only after he purified his mind from all of the irrational superstitions and degrading practices that he was forced to believe and imitate since birth was Abraham able to perceive and interact with the living God.

And it may not be that God simply disappeared. The story of Abraham is a story of an atheist who speculated that if there was a God he must be a living being and could not be a statue made by human hands that has no life. Historically, people seem to have preferred darkness to light, superstitions and self important rituals and ceremonies to truth and reality. God didn't necessarily disappear as much as people get lost in the darkness and blindness of confusion as a consequence...


the greatest obstacle you face is your overinflated opinion of your own perceptions, reasoning ability, and conclusions which makes it impossible for you to consider something as unbelievable as that you see no proof of God because you have an inferior instrument covered in cobwebs of resentments and hostility through either choice or neglect..

Like all theists you are able to dismiss the 999 logical arguments why there is no god. Why/how is that possible? Because you want to believe or you can not imagine there is no god. Sorry to disappoint you but spoiler alert!! when you die, there is no god or heaven. We made that stuff up. Wishful thinking.

My dad is not an educated man. He doesn't know anything about science. He says, "there has to be a god". He doesn't buy into any organized religions even though we were raised christian/greek orthodox. He admits that he doesn't believe that people who don't believe in jesus will burn in hell. Lets just put it that way. He admits the bible was written by men. He gets all that. But still he says there must be a god. How could this world be so perfect. We need the cows, the chickens, air, the sun, water, blbblabla. He says there's no way all this happened on its own. There must be a god he says.

And when I explain to him sciences argument against his theory he says, "then science is stupid".

His reasons for belief are rooted in ignorance. There must be a god? Why must there be? That's not a sound reasonable rational or logical argument.

It doesn't seem to matter to theists that all of their arguments are bad ones.

The only ignorance i see today in this thread was yu hate full post. Saying you are right with nothing to back it up isnt intelligence

Tapatalk

 

[Steven_R]

Sorry wrong. Notice if you ask a bunch of smart people, you'll find more atheists than if you ask a bunch of poor dumb hicks. 99% of the poor dumb hicks all believe.

And I did believe at one time. Also, it's not that your brain is smart and can conceive of a god and mine can't. I'm hearing your stories and they all sound so fucking stupid. You aren't deep you are reaching.

And notice when god came and spoke to man? a few thousand years ago, this god suddenly decided to reveal itself to several people in the most primitive, illiterate and remote portions of humanity in a completely unverifiable way – and then simply disappeared.

Just because what 99% of people believe about God and the stories in the bible cannot possibly be literally true that does not preclude the existence of a superior being or realm of conscious existence that is not of this world.

Only after he purified his mind from all of the irrational superstitions and degrading practices that he was forced to believe and imitate since birth was Abraham able to perceive and interact with the living God.

And it may not be that God simply disappeared. The story of Abraham is a story of an atheist who speculated that if there was a God he must be a living being and could not be a statue made by human hands that has no life. Historically, people seem to have preferred darkness to light, superstitions and self important rituals and ceremonies to truth and reality. God didn't necessarily disappear as much as people get lost in the darkness and blindness of confusion as a consequence...


the greatest obstacle you face is your overinflated opinion of your own perceptions, reasoning ability, and conclusions which makes it impossible for you to consider something as unbelievable as that you see no proof of God because you have an inferior instrument covered in cobwebs of resentments and hostility through either choice or neglect..

Like all theists you are able to dismiss the 999 logical arguments why there is no god. Why/how is that possible? Because you want to believe or you can not imagine there is no god. Sorry to disappoint you but spoiler alert!! when you die, there is no god or heaven. We made that stuff up. Wishful thinking.

My dad is not an educated man. He doesn't know anything about science. He says, "there has to be a god". He doesn't buy into any organized religions even though we were raised christian/greek orthodox. He admits that he doesn't believe that people who don't believe in jesus will burn in hell. Lets just put it that way. He admits the bible was written by men. He gets all that. But still he says there must be a god. How could this world be so perfect. We need the cows, the chickens, air, the sun, water, blbblabla. He says there's no way all this happened on its own. There must be a god he says.

And when I explain to him sciences argument against his theory he says, "then science is stupid".

His reasons for belief are rooted in ignorance. There must be a god? Why must there be? That's not a sound reasonable rational or logical argument.

It doesn't seem to matter to theists that all of their arguments are bad ones.

For me personally, I've had to look at it from a slightly different perspective. My brother and dad are deeply religious and my mother and sister are Christians, but not churchgoers. I'm agnostic on the whole existence of deities, but dismiss the whole Jehovah/Jesus story out of hand as just mythology. I find a lot to take from Christianity (do unto others..., turn the other cheek, stuff like that), but I'm not a believer.

But, I don't really want to hurt my family or take away something from them that they value.

So I thought about I and just leave the subject alone. I don't argue with them or tell them they are wrong or stupid or even that I don't believe. It simply isn't worth it to me to cause them to get upset over the whole issue. They don't bring it up or ask if I believe, and I don't bring it up. I still have Easter dinner with them, but don't go to church, I still say "bless you" and "merry Christmas" to them (and to people I see in the streets as well), I still enjoy several hymns (Eternal Father Strong To Save, Amazing Grace, and Angel Band are al particular favorites).

 

[BreezeWood]

It doesn't seem to matter to theists that all of their arguments are bad ones.

that may be, by the way seabo what made you into being ?

.

 

[hobelim]

I would think if you asked most people they would say they prefer light to darkness.

Sorry, no cobwebs, no resentment. I don't hate god because my kid died. I don't deny god exists because something bad happened. I simply was enlightened.

It is you who lacks reason. There isn't one argument for god that doesn't come with a fatal flaw. And you don't realize you believe because you are a scared and unevolved human who's been brainwashed to believe in fairy tales. Do you believe in Santa too?

Why are people christians? You act like other religions are selfish and christianity is not. The church wants your money and you want to go to heaven, not to mention you like the social gatherings at church. So it's like a fraternity that offers not only lifetime membership but eternal lifetime membership.

I am not a Christian and I do not belong to a church or any religion.

You, who claims to have been enlightened, have failed to perceive the truth about me who has been conversing openly with you and other people on a message board about what I do and don't believe, yet you were wrong in your perceptions, accused me of being a Christian, and then spewed resentments and hostility in my direction that you claim to not have.

Is it any wonder you have failed to perceive the truth about God?

I use to believe in god too. If it was the truth I'd still believe.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

I m sorry that you were hurt and disappointed to learn that what you were led to believe about God was not the truth. And I agree that one must seek evidence of truth independent of desires to know what really is, but maybe you should consider the possibility that the actual truth is that God exists independent of your desire to be right that he does not exist because your feelings were hurt when you learned that what were told to believe was false.

I once tried to believe in things that I was taught about God but couldn't believe because it couldn't possibly be true. I think it was about the same time that I lost my first teddy bear. Was a hard time but somehow I got over it.

As an enlightened seeker of truth you should already know that even if what 99% of the people believe about Gods, spirits, etc., is patently false that does not preclude the existence of a supreme being that exists independent of anyone's ability or inability to perceive him who is the ultimate source of all life and what is seen and unseen..

You have already proven that your brain needs a tune up if you thought that I was a church going Christian which tapped into unresolved feelings about the time you wasted being deceived.


you really need to get over it.

Forget about God, if you can't accurately perceive me, who was writing words that you can see with your own eyes, because you are still pissed off at Christians, you are not likely to accurately perceive that which can only be perceived through a pure mind.

 

[sealybobo]

I am not a Christian and I do not belong to a church or any religion.

You, who claims to have been enlightened, have failed to perceive the truth about me who has been conversing openly with you and other people on a message board about what I do and don't believe, yet you were wrong in your perceptions, accused me of being a Christian, and then spewed resentments and hostility in my direction that you claim to not have.

Is it any wonder you have failed to perceive the truth about God?

I use to believe in god too. If it was the truth I'd still believe.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

I m sorry that you were hurt and disappointed to learn that what you were led to believe about God was not the truth. And I agree that one must seek evidence of truth independent of desires to know what really is, but maybe you should consider the possibility that the actual truth is that God exists independent of your desire to be right that he does not exist because your feelings were hurt when you learned that what were told to believe was false.

I once tried to believe in things that I was taught about God but couldn't believe because it couldn't possibly be true. I think it was about the same time that I lost my first teddy bear. Was a hard time but somehow I got over it.

As an enlightened seeker of truth you should already know that even if what 99% of the people believe about Gods, spirits, etc., is patently false that does not preclude the existence of a supreme being that exists independent of anyone's ability or inability to perceive him who is the ultimate source of all life and what is seen and unseen..

You have already proven that your brain needs a tune up if you thought that I was a church going Christian which tapped into unresolved feelings about the time you wasted being deceived.


you really need to get over it.

Forget about God, if you can't accurately perceive me, who was writing words that you can see with your own eyes, because you are still pissed off at Christians, you are not likely to accurately perceive that which can only be perceived through a pure mind.

I don't care if you belong to an organized religion or if you just believe in a generic god, you still have no proof. So until you do, I guess you can continue to believe your fairy tale and I will continue to believe you are fos.

And what is with this "sorry you got your feelings hurt"? I only focus on christianity because it is the main religion in the USA. All the other organized religions are bullshit too. Now how do you suppose Muslims & Jews "hurt my feelings"? They didn't. What I don't like is the lies they tell. And you may think its ok to tell this lie. You may think this is the one good lie that should be told. I don't. I think it is unnecessary and religious people are stupid. You want proof? Look at how bad our government is. Why do we put up with it? I'll tell you why. Because the people in charge have divided us with bullshit wedge issues. What are those issues? God, gays and guns.

I bet the mega rich people that rule/own/run America know this too. I bet they tell themselves that the masses can be manipulated/controlled as long as they are dumb enough to believe something like religion with zero proof.

 

[sealybobo]

It doesn't seem to matter to theists that all of their arguments are bad ones.

that may be, by the way seabo what made you into being ?

.

My parents?

And if something had to make me, if something had to make the universe, what made god? You can't have that argument both ways. If something MUST have created all this, something must have created god. And who or what created the thing that created god? Get the point?

 

[sealybobo]

Just because what 99% of people believe about God and the stories in the bible cannot possibly be literally true that does not preclude the existence of a superior being or realm of conscious existence that is not of this world.

Only after he purified his mind from all of the irrational superstitions and degrading practices that he was forced to believe and imitate since birth was Abraham able to perceive and interact with the living God.

And it may not be that God simply disappeared. The story of Abraham is a story of an atheist who speculated that if there was a God he must be a living being and could not be a statue made by human hands that has no life. Historically, people seem to have preferred darkness to light, superstitions and self important rituals and ceremonies to truth and reality. God didn't necessarily disappear as much as people get lost in the darkness and blindness of confusion as a consequence...


the greatest obstacle you face is your overinflated opinion of your own perceptions, reasoning ability, and conclusions which makes it impossible for you to consider something as unbelievable as that you see no proof of God because you have an inferior instrument covered in cobwebs of resentments and hostility through either choice or neglect..

Like all theists you are able to dismiss the 999 logical arguments why there is no god. Why/how is that possible? Because you want to believe or you can not imagine there is no god. Sorry to disappoint you but spoiler alert!! when you die, there is no god or heaven. We made that stuff up. Wishful thinking.

My dad is not an educated man. He doesn't know anything about science. He says, "there has to be a god". He doesn't buy into any organized religions even though we were raised christian/greek orthodox. He admits that he doesn't believe that people who don't believe in jesus will burn in hell. Lets just put it that way. He admits the bible was written by men. He gets all that. But still he says there must be a god. How could this world be so perfect. We need the cows, the chickens, air, the sun, water, blbblabla. He says there's no way all this happened on its own. There must be a god he says.

And when I explain to him sciences argument against his theory he says, "then science is stupid".

His reasons for belief are rooted in ignorance. There must be a god? Why must there be? That's not a sound reasonable rational or logical argument.

It doesn't seem to matter to theists that all of their arguments are bad ones.

For me personally, I've had to look at it from a slightly different perspective. My brother and dad are deeply religious and my mother and sister are Christians, but not churchgoers. I'm agnostic on the whole existence of deities, but dismiss the whole Jehovah/Jesus story out of hand as just mythology. I find a lot to take from Christianity (do unto others..., turn the other cheek, stuff like that), but I'm not a believer.

But, I don't really want to hurt my family or take away something from them that they value.

So I thought about I and just leave the subject alone. I don't argue with them or tell them they are wrong or stupid or even that I don't believe. It simply isn't worth it to me to cause them to get upset over the whole issue. They don't bring it up or ask if I believe, and I don't bring it up. I still have Easter dinner with them, but don't go to church, I still say "bless you" and "merry Christmas" to them (and to people I see in the streets as well), I still enjoy several hymns (Eternal Father Strong To Save, Amazing Grace, and Angel Band are al particular favorites).

I too am very selective about who I discuss this with in real life. It's why I come to USMB to talk about it.

But, consider that just because something is perceived as having good consequences if it is true, does not actually make it true.

The fact that religiously free societies with a proportionally large number of atheists are generally more peaceful than otherwise is evidence this perception is incorrect.

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” – Steven Weinberg

 

[hobelim]

I use to believe in god too. If it was the truth I'd still believe.

There is a truth and reality independent of our desires. Faith simply reinforces your belief in what you would like to be true, rather than what really is.

In order to better under understand this reality and discover the truth we must look for evidence outside ourselves.

Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.

I m sorry that you were hurt and disappointed to learn that what you were led to believe about God was not the truth. And I agree that one must seek evidence of truth independent of desires to know what really is, but maybe you should consider the possibility that the actual truth is that God exists independent of your desire to be right that he does not exist because your feelings were hurt when you learned that what were told to believe was false.

I once tried to believe in things that I was taught about God but couldn't believe because it couldn't possibly be true. I think it was about the same time that I lost my first teddy bear. Was a hard time but somehow I got over it.

As an enlightened seeker of truth you should already know that even if what 99% of the people believe about Gods, spirits, etc., is patently false that does not preclude the existence of a supreme being that exists independent of anyone's ability or inability to perceive him who is the ultimate source of all life and what is seen and unseen..

You have already proven that your brain needs a tune up if you thought that I was a church going Christian which tapped into unresolved feelings about the time you wasted being deceived.


you really need to get over it.

Forget about God, if you can't accurately perceive me, who was writing words that you can see with your own eyes, because you are still pissed off at Christians, you are not likely to accurately perceive that which can only be perceived through a pure mind.

I don't care if you belong to an organized religion or if you just believe in a generic god, you still have no proof. So until you do, I guess you can continue to believe your fairy tale and I will continue to believe you are fos.

How can you assert that I have no proof of God if you do not know or care what I believe and know about God?

If you don't know or care what I believe about God then the only thing that is false is your claim of there being no proof.

Maybe I am a pantheist who believes that the universe is God? Are you suggesting there is no proof for the universe? What if I believed that God was life itself, a creative force? Is there no proof for life?




You seem to be emotionally driven and immature and completely oblivious to the extent to which your past hurts cloud and distort your perceptions of yourself and your conclusions based on the absence of clear thinking and understanding free from the emotional quagmire of past resentments.

Free your mind.

You may not be living behind bars but the condition of the prison you have made for yourself is far more deplorable than any dungeon ever mentioned in a fairy tale.


I see people like you declare that there is no God because you see no proof but because your mind has become defiled and contaminated by bitterness you can't see, even yourself.

 

[BillyP]

I m sorry that you were hurt and disappointed to learn that what you were led to believe about God was not the truth. And I agree that one must seek evidence of truth independent of desires to know what really is, but maybe you should consider the possibility that the actual truth is that God exists independent of your desire to be right that he does not exist because your feelings were hurt when you learned that what were told to believe was false.

I once tried to believe in things that I was taught about God but couldn't believe because it couldn't possibly be true. I think it was about the same time that I lost my first teddy bear. Was a hard time but somehow I got over it.

As an enlightened seeker of truth you should already know that even if what 99% of the people believe about Gods, spirits, etc., is patently false that does not preclude the existence of a supreme being that exists independent of anyone's ability or inability to perceive him who is the ultimate source of all life and what is seen and unseen..

You have already proven that your brain needs a tune up if you thought that I was a church going Christian which tapped into unresolved feelings about the time you wasted being deceived.


you really need to get over it.

Forget about God, if you can't accurately perceive me, who was writing words that you can see with your own eyes, because you are still pissed off at Christians, you are not likely to accurately perceive that which can only be perceived through a pure mind.

I don't care if you belong to an organized religion or if you just believe in a generic god, you still have no proof. So until you do, I guess you can continue to believe your fairy tale and I will continue to believe you are fos.

How can you assert that I have no proof of God if you do not know or care what I believe and know about God?

If you don't know or care what I believe about God then the only thing that is false is your claim of there being no proof.

Maybe I am a pantheist who believes that the universe is God? Are you suggesting there is no proof for the universe? What if I believed that God was life itself, a creative force? Is there no proof for life?




You seem to be emotionally driven and immature and completely oblivious to the extent to which your past hurts cloud and distort your perceptions of yourself and your conclusions based on the absence of clear thinking and understanding free from the emotional quagmire of past resentments.

Free your mind.

You may not be living behind bars but the condition of the prison you have made for yourself is far more deplorable than any dungeon ever mentioned in a fairy tale.


I see people like you declare that there is no God because you see no proof but because your mind has become defiled and contaminated by bitterness you can't see, even yourself.

Ok, here's your chance, show us your proof of god.

 

[sealybobo]

I m sorry that you were hurt and disappointed to learn that what you were led to believe about God was not the truth. And I agree that one must seek evidence of truth independent of desires to know what really is, but maybe you should consider the possibility that the actual truth is that God exists independent of your desire to be right that he does not exist because your feelings were hurt when you learned that what were told to believe was false.

I once tried to believe in things that I was taught about God but couldn't believe because it couldn't possibly be true. I think it was about the same time that I lost my first teddy bear. Was a hard time but somehow I got over it.

As an enlightened seeker of truth you should already know that even if what 99% of the people believe about Gods, spirits, etc., is patently false that does not preclude the existence of a supreme being that exists independent of anyone's ability or inability to perceive him who is the ultimate source of all life and what is seen and unseen..

You have already proven that your brain needs a tune up if you thought that I was a church going Christian which tapped into unresolved feelings about the time you wasted being deceived.


you really need to get over it.

Forget about God, if you can't accurately perceive me, who was writing words that you can see with your own eyes, because you are still pissed off at Christians, you are not likely to accurately perceive that which can only be perceived through a pure mind.

I don't care if you belong to an organized religion or if you just believe in a generic god, you still have no proof. So until you do, I guess you can continue to believe your fairy tale and I will continue to believe you are fos.

How can you assert that I have no proof of God if you do not know or care what I believe and know about God?

If you don't know or care what I believe about God then the only thing that is false is your claim of there being no proof.

Maybe I am a pantheist who believes that the universe is God? Are you suggesting there is no proof for the universe? What if I believed that God was life itself, a creative force? Is there no proof for life?


You seem to be emotionally driven and immature and completely oblivious to the extent to which your past hurts cloud and distort your perceptions of yourself and your conclusions based on the absence of clear thinking and understanding free from the emotional quagmire of past resentments.

Free your mind.

You may not be living behind bars but the condition of the prison you have made for yourself is far more deplorable than any dungeon ever mentioned in a fairy tale.


I see people like you declare that there is no God because you see no proof but because your mind has become defiled and contaminated by bitterness you can't see, even yourself.

Let me work backwards and comment on your thoughts.

1. Typical theist argument that I/we must be angry or evil if we don't believe. My reply? Fuck you.

2. My history and knowledge that I have picked up along the way no doubt led me to atheism. Probably because too many of you theists are complete assholes.

3. A pantheist? More like a pain in the ass. And no fair! You theists need to agree on one truth about god and all stick to it. I'm sick of having to change my arguments because excuse the fuck out of me you're a catholic? Oh no you're a protestant? Oh a Mormon? Oh a Muslim or Jew? Or people like you and boss who believe in god but not organized religion. I wouldn't believe it that adults believe in god if I weren't one of you just a few months ago. I have woken up and think the rest of the world needs to now. I'm like a person who just finds christ and goes around asking people if they know where they are going when they die, only I tell people that there going no where. LOL.

And notice me and another poster said we don't tell our love ones that they believe a lie. It'd be too much for some of them to take. They can't discuss this topic without getting defensive and emotional. But, I am hoping one day this lie isn't passed on to the next generation. It is unnecessary and does not produce good citizens. It produces stupid sheeple who are easily manipulated.

4. If you have proof of a god, show it. I'm assuming you're just like every other theist and you have nothing. Why do I assume that? Because there is no argument for a god that doesn't have some kind of fatal flaw.

5. It is you theists who aren't happy. You are afraid of death. Why? Better to appreciate the time you have here on earth and if your life sucks, don't wait for heaven, make your life here on earth heaven.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life’s meaning. We long for a Parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.” – Carl Sagan

When I became convinced that the universe was natural, that all the ghosts and gods were myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles turned to dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space.

I was free to think. Free to express my thoughts, free to live in my own ideal. Free to live for myself and those I loved. Free to use all my faculties, all my senses. Free to spread imagination’s wings, free to investigate, to guess, and dream and hope. Free to judge and determine for myself. Free to reject all ignorant and cruel creeds, all the inspired books that savages have produced, and the barbarous legends of the past. Free from sanctified mistakes and “holy” lies. Free from the fear of eternal pain, free from the winged monsters of the night. Free from devils, ghosts and gods. For the first time I was free.

There were no prohibited places in all of the realm of thought. No error, no space where fancy could not spread her painted wings. No chains for my limbs. No lashes for my back. No flames for my flesh. No Master’s frown or threat, no following in another’s steps. No need to bow or cringe or crawl, or utter lying words. I was free; I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

My heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heros, the thinkers who gave their lives for liberty of hand and brain, for the freedom of labor and thought to those who fell on the fierce fields of war. To those who died in dungeons, bound in chains, to those by fire consumed, to all the wise, the good, the brave of every land whose thoughts and deeds have given freedom to the sons of men. And then, I vowed to grasp the torch that they held, and hold it high, That light might conquer darkness still.

-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833-1899)

 

[sealybobo]

I don't care if you belong to an organized religion or if you just believe in a generic god, you still have no proof. So until you do, I guess you can continue to believe your fairy tale and I will continue to believe you are fos.

How can you assert that I have no proof of God if you do not know or care what I believe and know about God?

If you don't know or care what I believe about God then the only thing that is false is your claim of there being no proof.

Maybe I am a pantheist who believes that the universe is God? Are you suggesting there is no proof for the universe? What if I believed that God was life itself, a creative force? Is there no proof for life?




You seem to be emotionally driven and immature and completely oblivious to the extent to which your past hurts cloud and distort your perceptions of yourself and your conclusions based on the absence of clear thinking and understanding free from the emotional quagmire of past resentments.

Free your mind.

You may not be living behind bars but the condition of the prison you have made for yourself is far more deplorable than any dungeon ever mentioned in a fairy tale.


I see people like you declare that there is no God because you see no proof but because your mind has become defiled and contaminated by bitterness you can't see, even yourself.

Ok, here's your chance, show us your proof of god.

I took a long time to reply to that guy and I would have thought if he had proof he would have replied to you by now. Don't hold your breath.

 

[hobelim]

I don't care if you belong to an organized religion or if you just believe in a generic god, you still have no proof. So until you do, I guess you can continue to believe your fairy tale and I will continue to believe you are fos.

How can you assert that I have no proof of God if you do not know or care what I believe and know about God?

If you don't know or care what I believe about God then the only thing that is false is your claim of there being no proof.

Maybe I am a pantheist who believes that the universe is God? Are you suggesting there is no proof for the universe? What if I believed that God was life itself, a creative force? Is there no proof for life?




You seem to be emotionally driven and immature and completely oblivious to the extent to which your past hurts cloud and distort your perceptions of yourself and your conclusions based on the absence of clear thinking and understanding free from the emotional quagmire of past resentments.

Free your mind.

You may not be living behind bars but the condition of the prison you have made for yourself is far more deplorable than any dungeon ever mentioned in a fairy tale.


I see people like you declare that there is no God because you see no proof but because your mind has become defiled and contaminated by bitterness you can't see, even yourself.

Ok, here's your chance, show us your proof of god.

God is not a genie in a bottle or circus animal that will appear to you at my bidding.

God will not descend from heaven because someone in hell says that they refuse to believe unless he comes out of hiding and kisses their ass.

Its never going to happen.

Unless you purify your own mind and become refined you will never see proof of God even if someone rose from the dead and was standing there right in front of you, eating fish.

The more you cleanse your mind from that which causes your mind to stumble in thought and perception the more you will understand and be capable of perceiving. whether your eyes are opened and you see God or not will depend on whether you have the strength and courage to face yourself.


The best I can do is show you the way to purify your mind.

do it and you will see God.


You can start by learning your A, B, C's...

 

[Boss]

The big bang happened 13 billion years ago. There is a such thing as 14 billion years ago, no?

We don't know if the Big Bang happened, it is a theory. Whenever the universe began is when time began because time is a dimension of the universe. Before the universe existed there is no evidence time existed or could have existed.

You've provided no evidence either. No good evidence anyways.

Well, what is "good" evidence? We can go through this again, "evidence" is subject to individual evaluation. Two people can view "evidence" as valid, invalid, good, bad, ugly... there is no rule that says all "evidence" is equal. You've made your mind up there is no God, so no amount of evidence will ever be good enough for you. It's like the OJ jurors... they made their mind up OJ was innocent, and the "evidence" simply didn't matter.

But the thing is, I am not trying to present evidence to prove God exists. I'm just presenting evidence to refute your misconceptions regarding science and what you CLAIM that science has proven.

Sorry boss, you believe in god because you want there to be a god. Wishful thinking.

I don't know how many times I need to address this to get it through your thick head, but I believe in God because I communicate with God daily and God answers my prayers. If that didn't happen, I probably wouldn't be able to believe in God. It's way more than "faith" for me, I realize a lot of people simply have "faith" in what they believe... like YOU for instance.

 

[hobelim]

How can you assert that I have no proof of God if you do not know or care what I believe and know about God?

If you don't know or care what I believe about God then the only thing that is false is your claim of there being no proof.

Maybe I am a pantheist who believes that the universe is God? Are you suggesting there is no proof for the universe? What if I believed that God was life itself, a creative force? Is there no proof for life?




You seem to be emotionally driven and immature and completely oblivious to the extent to which your past hurts cloud and distort your perceptions of yourself and your conclusions based on the absence of clear thinking and understanding free from the emotional quagmire of past resentments.

Free your mind.

You may not be living behind bars but the condition of the prison you have made for yourself is far more deplorable than any dungeon ever mentioned in a fairy tale.


I see people like you declare that there is no God because you see no proof but because your mind has become defiled and contaminated by bitterness you can't see, even yourself.

Ok, here's your chance, show us your proof of god.

I took a long time to reply to that guy and I would have thought if he had proof he would have replied to you by now. Don't hold your breath.

Like I said, "You seem to be emotionally driven and immature"


thanks for the confirmation....

 

[Boss]

Silly boob argues the most rational position is to say "we don't know" yet he continually refutes that position by insisting that he knows there is no God. He further tries to argue that science is 99.999% sure there is no God, which is fascinating, given he hasn't provided ANY scientific evidence to support that claim.

Nevertheless, he insists there is no good reason for man to worship something greater than self. This is just some made up invention of the mind that we created to cope with fears and we'd be better off without it. Again, he offers nothing in the way of evidence to support this opinion and expects folks to just take it at face value. His examples are himself and his atheist 'buddies' who are doing just fine not believing in any Gods.

I'm going to contradict his point here, it's far better for man to believe in something greater than self for two very important and fundamental reasons. The first is inspiration. You see, when humans have faith in something greater than self, it enables them to become inspired to accomplish things they would otherwise not be able to do. A person who can only believe in their personal capabilities may find a challenge too daunting, impossible from their perspective, and they will simply resign themselves to accepting that it's not meant to be. Whereas, a person who has an inner faith of a power greater than self, will gain strength of will, perseverance, determination beyond their own capabilities. Through the strength of this faith they are able to accomplish the otherwise impossible.

The second reason is accountability. A person who believes they have no soul is not accountable to anything, including the rest of humanity. Anything can be justified, morality can simply be self-defined and rationalized as the individual sees fit. If there is no tangible consequence to their actions, the actions become based on personal desire and nothing more. This means you are honest when you want to be, you keep your promises when you feel like it, you can't ever really be trusted. In essence, you become your own God.

Can people get by without believing in God? Sure! They've been doing this for all of human existence, just like humans have always been spiritual. The really neat thing about the Bible is, it's full of such examples, and tells the story of those who have attempted to walk the path in darkness rather than light. In fact, the counter-forces of spiritual energy are almost as strong as spiritual energy itself.

 

[PostmodernProph]

1. Typical theist argument that I/we must be angry or evil if we don't believe. My reply? Fuck you.

I wonder why they think you're angry...

 

[BreezeWood]

It doesn't seem to matter to theists that all of their arguments are bad ones.

that may be, by the way seabo what made you into being ?

.

My parents?

And if something had to make me, if something had to make the universe, what made god? You can't have that argument both ways. If something MUST have created all this, something must have created god. And who or what created the thing that created god? Get the point?

the above time line is from some other subject matter - what made God would incidentally and necessarily not be any different than what God made. be happy with what already exists.


the universe the laws of physics, nature and the origin of life do all exist both together physically and metaphysically.

physiology and the metaphysical Spirit reside together called an individual with and without beneficial results, there is the likelihood then that one might exist if only temporarily without the other and or eventually will become a necessity as one, physiology is destined to perish - were it determined from where one came there is a reasonable degree of probability of returning to that origin when the time arrives and an answer to the past has been fulfilled.

seabo, you can not disprove your existence.

.