Why do you need to carry a gun?

[Mike473]

The world is a dangerous place. Think of it as a personal insurance policy, kind of like Andy talked about in his office.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It certainly shows too. I don't know anything about Morocco, but just doing a quick search, here is what I found:

Gender violence
Violence against Moroccan women remains widespread and a largely taboo subject in the country, according to research data.

In 2009, a national survey reported that 62.8 percent of women had experienced physical, psychological, sexual or economic abuse.

Of the sample interviewed, 55 percent reported "conjugal" violence and 13.5 percent reported "familial" violence.

It also became a hot issue last August after a video was posted on the internet showing a young woman on a bus being sexually molested by a group of boys while the driver and passengers ignored her appeals for help.

This sent shockwaves throughout the country and intensified calls for more to be done in the kingdom.

According to AFP news agency, about 1,600 cases of rape were heard by Moroccan courts last year, twice as many as previous years.

Morocco criminalises violence against women and sexual harassment

So it seems, you have a country of defenseless women who are constantly being abused. Furthermore as the article points out, this "new law" to protect women doesn't include spousal rape or abuse. It's apparently perfectly legal.

Here, a woman (wife or otherwise) not only has legal protection against a male, she also has firearm protection. And in our country, the law states that a person (in this case a woman) has the legal right to use deadly force against an attacker she believes will cause her serious bodily injury or death. Perfectly legal.

Maybe when you go back to Morocco, take a few guns back with you for your sisters and female cousins. I'm sure it will help them sleep better at night, just as our American females can thanks to the Second Amendment.

Hahahahaha I knew you gonna try and Google your way to it. I lived there half of my life and i visit frequently and here is what someone who loves both America and Morocco can tell you:

I RATHER be a woman in Morocco than in the US.
A little Moroccan girl can play in the streets without being kidnapped, raped and later killed (super rare)
Moroccan girls as little as 7 walk to school on their own without the fear of being kidnapped, unlike here.
Moroccan women dont get kidnapped raped, killed and buried as often and frequent as the US.
We have more women in our parliament than US women in congress.
You come to any Moroccan neighborhood you disrespect a female your ass get kicked....unlike here everyone wants to get under her panties.
We give our seats to women in buses and other places, we carry heavy loads for them AMD so forth....we respect our moms unlike here they get called bitches and all sorta names....if you disrespect woman in the street that's a pass to get your ass kicked.
I can go on and on.

You can go on and on all you like, but this link states differently.

You give your bus seats to women, for what, so they can be raped by teens and nobody does anything?

Yes, you have less crimes in Morocco because you have a population less than California. The US has nearly ten times that population. As for representation, Morocco has 21% of women in their parliament and the US Congress has 23%, so you fail on that claim as well.

Moroccan women don't get kidnapped, raped and beaten by strangers, yet it apparently happens all the time by their husbands and that's okay. Nobody is "kicking their ass."

We talking ratio of crimes the size of population has nothing to do it.
Moroccans value human life more, hence they have less murders than the US by far.
And yes Moroccan parliament always had more representation of women in recent years than its counter part especially the GOP part of it.


Oh and speaking of marital rape in the US:

• re committed by husbands, common-law partners, or boyfriends.
• Twenty-nine percent of all sexual assaults of adult women were committed by husbands, common-law partners, or boyfriends.
• Nine percent of all reported rapes were committed by a husband or an ex-husband.
• Up to 30 percent of women asking for spousal support or maintenance in a divorce have reported at least one forced sexual assault by a partner.
• When there is domestic violence in a relationship, the risk of marital rape increases by 70 percent.
• Women with religious backgrounds were more likely to accept marital rape because of a fear of a spouse committing adultery or being cast as a sinner from a resulting divorce.

I see you provided no source. Good call on your part.

But even if your stats have any reliability, we sure as hell have better ones than your country. 63%?????

You see in the US, the public stands against true assaults and rapes of women. According to the article I posted, people in Morocco simply ignore it as if it doesn't happen.

And you say their prisons are just as humane as ours are in the US? Maybe you never met anybody who was in prison there:





These people talk about conditions of starving, no running water from mid morning to late afternoon, people sleeping on concrete floors, no medical care, just a real (as Trump would put it) shithole.

Jail is not suppose to be a vacation spot, for the violent criminals they should make it hard for them to not look forward to going back jail. Jail in the US is almost a reward and dont get me started on how the justice is system is fucked. The rich in most cases dont even go to jail, is made only for the poor.
And your stats are made up, I live in both countries the US is far more dangerous for women, girls, kids and men in general. 30000 deaths per year or so, that's worse than been in Syria or Iraq.
Trust me i love this country but guns availability fucked it up, plus entertainment, low morals, broken family system, selfishness, savage capitalism and so forth.
You as a foreigner if you go to Morocco and wonder in poor remote areas they will feed you and host is part of our culture....you'll find 1 member of the family can support 7 members of his family and so forth, we take care of our elderly people and we dont throw them in senior homes.....there is a huge cultural differences.

If it's such a wonderful place, move back. We won't miss you.

I get so perturbed by foreigners coming here and then telling us the faults of our country compared to theirs. Yet you came here, we don't go there. And there's a reason why millions of people are trying to get here as well.

Yes, guns and our Constitution are part of living in a free society. You have the freedom here to be anybody you wish. You can be poor if you want, middle-class if you want, and even wealthy if you want. We live in the greatest country in the world. Part of freedom is being able to defend yourself from bad people.

You don't even realize that you supported my point. The reason people don't want to be imprisoned in other countries is because it's not a cake walk like in the US. It's not the guns that are the problem, it's Democrats.

 

[McRocket]

Why does the average woman carry a gun? Penis envy.

Why does the average man carry a gun? Same reason.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You should read Sowell's book. He lays out very clear evidence that it was leftist brainwashing.

It was capitalists abandoning the inner cities
Blacks flocked to the cities for manufacturing jobs
Those jobs left
The low skilled workers were left without a means to support themselves or their families
Democrats provided food and housing support

Democrats get blamed for a plantation

Or they left for the same reason they did here.

When bussing was instituted, people with money moved out of the city and into the burbs or country. That left you with a city of people who couldn't afford to move; poorer people. That meant less and less tax revenue to the city, and they tried to recoup some of those losses on businesses. Then the businesses moved.

But Oh! Democrats put all those people on welfare! With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Capitalists moving the jobs out of the city put those people on welfare

No, the crime and low quality of workers moved those industries out of the cities.

If you could see my suburb 30 years ago and look at it today, you wouldn't even recognize the place. This was once a vibrant community known for it's great shopping experience, superior eduction, and safety. Home values always on the increase and a place most anybody would want to live. Then the blacks moved in.

Because of theft and robberies, most of our stores are closed down. Walmart couldn't even make it here. We went from one murder perhaps in every 15 years to three a year. The streets and sidewalks are filled with litter. The police no longer want to be proactive thanks to the Ferguson Effect. Half our stores are empty, and the ones that remained open are either daycare centers, nail salons, Dollar stores, or cell phone/ pager places.

Our property value is half of what it was over 20 years ago. Our city is barely out of the red, but upcoming costs have them worried. They cut city services to the bare minimum.

People can talk about the churches, the stores, the playgrounds, the industry, but what makes a neighborhood are the neighbors.

Cleveland suffered like the rest of the rust belt

Those vibrant communities in places like Detroit, Cleveland, Gary, Newark all depended on an industrial base

Once that industrial base was removed, decay set in.

No, not always. We had places around here with very little or no industry at all. But the people swarmed to an area where it was safe to live and take a walk on the street anytime day or night.

Yes, industry helps with the tax base, but industry also brings in the decay of a city by the people who are attracted to the businesses. HUD is certainly no help when their goal is to destroy nice places. They target areas for destruction and it quickly goes to hell, and I don't care how much industry you have there.

 

[XponentialChaos]

To be honest, I was wrong. I always thought it was illegal; maybe just in my state.

Sure, a vest and a gun would be dandy. But if only the choice of the two, I'm taking my gun. After all, putting on a vest takes a little time. I know. One of my students when I taught music at a music store used to take off all that crap before he could start his lesson. It took up half of his time.

A gun you just grab and stick it in your holster which takes a few seconds.

It's not illegal in your state. I looked it up.

It's not a choice between one or the other.

Here's a video of a guy putting on a bullet-proof vest. It takes him about 2 seconds to put the vest on.

So Ray From Cleveland , is two seconds too long to put on your bullet-proof vest???

If you're done giving me bullshit excuses ("It's illegal", "It takes too long to put on"), maybe you can actually address the question.

What's the REAL reason you don't wear a bullet-proof vest when you go out to pick up the mail? It's better to have one and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Right?

Perhaps some people do use one. I don't know. My mailbox is next to my side door by my driveway. I don't even step out of the house; just reach over and get the mail out.

Why do you choose not to wear a bullet-proof vest when you go to the store?

You carry your gun. You don't wear a bullet-proof vest. Why? It's better to have one and not need one, than to need one and not have one.

Just be honest. No bullshit excuses. It's not illegal and it doesn't take too long to put on.

I don't know how many times you leftists need a question answered to get it through your thick head. So once again: A bulletproof vest only offers some protection. They don't protect any of your limbs or head. If somebody is shooting at an unarmed person, they can continue shooting until dead. If you have a gun instead of a vest, you have a chance at chasing away an attacker and quite possibly kill him in the process.

We lose over 140 police officers a year in this country, and they don't just wear vests. They wear all kinds of safety/ bulletproof equipment as I explained earlier about that police officer that was a student of mine. Yet they get killed anyway. That's why you need a gun instead of a vest.

"If you have a gun instead of a vest..."
"That's why you need a gun instead of a vest."

You're going backwards, Ray. This was already explained to you in post #354. See for yourself.

I'm not comparing the usefulness of gun vs bullet-proof vest. Which of the following is more safe:

1) A gun and a bullet-proof vest.
2) A gun without a bullet-proof vest.

One can obviously use both. You're desperately trying to make this a CHOICE between the two, which is simply not the case.

 

[Issa]

Hahahahaha I knew you gonna try and Google your way to it. I lived there half of my life and i visit frequently and here is what someone who loves both America and Morocco can tell you:

I RATHER be a woman in Morocco than in the US.
A little Moroccan girl can play in the streets without being kidnapped, raped and later killed (super rare)
Moroccan girls as little as 7 walk to school on their own without the fear of being kidnapped, unlike here.
Moroccan women dont get kidnapped raped, killed and buried as often and frequent as the US.
We have more women in our parliament than US women in congress.
You come to any Moroccan neighborhood you disrespect a female your ass get kicked....unlike here everyone wants to get under her panties.
We give our seats to women in buses and other places, we carry heavy loads for them AMD so forth....we respect our moms unlike here they get called bitches and all sorta names....if you disrespect woman in the street that's a pass to get your ass kicked.
I can go on and on.

You can go on and on all you like, but this link states differently.

You give your bus seats to women, for what, so they can be raped by teens and nobody does anything?

Yes, you have less crimes in Morocco because you have a population less than California. The US has nearly ten times that population. As for representation, Morocco has 21% of women in their parliament and the US Congress has 23%, so you fail on that claim as well.

Moroccan women don't get kidnapped, raped and beaten by strangers, yet it apparently happens all the time by their husbands and that's okay. Nobody is "kicking their ass."

We talking ratio of crimes the size of population has nothing to do it.
Moroccans value human life more, hence they have less murders than the US by far.
And yes Moroccan parliament always had more representation of women in recent years than its counter part especially the GOP part of it.


Oh and speaking of marital rape in the US:

• re committed by husbands, common-law partners, or boyfriends.
• Twenty-nine percent of all sexual assaults of adult women were committed by husbands, common-law partners, or boyfriends.
• Nine percent of all reported rapes were committed by a husband or an ex-husband.
• Up to 30 percent of women asking for spousal support or maintenance in a divorce have reported at least one forced sexual assault by a partner.
• When there is domestic violence in a relationship, the risk of marital rape increases by 70 percent.
• Women with religious backgrounds were more likely to accept marital rape because of a fear of a spouse committing adultery or being cast as a sinner from a resulting divorce.

I see you provided no source. Good call on your part.

But even if your stats have any reliability, we sure as hell have better ones than your country. 63%?????

You see in the US, the public stands against true assaults and rapes of women. According to the article I posted, people in Morocco simply ignore it as if it doesn't happen.

And you say their prisons are just as humane as ours are in the US? Maybe you never met anybody who was in prison there:





These people talk about conditions of starving, no running water from mid morning to late afternoon, people sleeping on concrete floors, no medical care, just a real (as Trump would put it) shithole.

Jail is not suppose to be a vacation spot, for the violent criminals they should make it hard for them to not look forward to going back jail. Jail in the US is almost a reward and dont get me started on how the justice is system is fucked. The rich in most cases dont even go to jail, is made only for the poor.
And your stats are made up, I live in both countries the US is far more dangerous for women, girls, kids and men in general. 30000 deaths per year or so, that's worse than been in Syria or Iraq.
Trust me i love this country but guns availability fucked it up, plus entertainment, low morals, broken family system, selfishness, savage capitalism and so forth.
You as a foreigner if you go to Morocco and wonder in poor remote areas they will feed you and host is part of our culture....you'll find 1 member of the family can support 7 members of his family and so forth, we take care of our elderly people and we dont throw them in senior homes.....there is a huge cultural differences.

If it's such a wonderful place, move back. We won't miss you.

I get so perturbed by foreigners coming here and then telling us the faults of our country compared to theirs. Yet you came here, we don't go there. And there's a reason why millions of people are trying to get here as well.

Yes, guns and our Constitution are part of living in a free society. You have the freedom here to be anybody you wish. You can be poor if you want, middle-class if you want, and even wealthy if you want. We live in the greatest country in the world. Part of freedom is being able to defend yourself from bad people.

You don't even realize that you supported my point. The reason people don't want to be imprisoned in other countries is because it's not a cake walk like in the US. It's not the guns that are the problem, it's Democrats.

I told you I love and live both countries. Yes millions come to the US 5o make a good living, business, school and else....but if wants points our the flaws he has to go out? What kind of logic is that ?
The constitution is outdated and needs to be updated.
And if an amendment is causing thousands of deaths and and thousands of long lasting injuries , maybe and just maybe it needs revisiting?

As I said you are numb to the violence because you grow up in it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can go on and on all you like, but this link states differently.

You give your bus seats to women, for what, so they can be raped by teens and nobody does anything?

Yes, you have less crimes in Morocco because you have a population less than California. The US has nearly ten times that population. As for representation, Morocco has 21% of women in their parliament and the US Congress has 23%, so you fail on that claim as well.

Moroccan women don't get kidnapped, raped and beaten by strangers, yet it apparently happens all the time by their husbands and that's okay. Nobody is "kicking their ass."

We talking ratio of crimes the size of population has nothing to do it.
Moroccans value human life more, hence they have less murders than the US by far.
And yes Moroccan parliament always had more representation of women in recent years than its counter part especially the GOP part of it.


Oh and speaking of marital rape in the US:

• re committed by husbands, common-law partners, or boyfriends.
• Twenty-nine percent of all sexual assaults of adult women were committed by husbands, common-law partners, or boyfriends.
• Nine percent of all reported rapes were committed by a husband or an ex-husband.
• Up to 30 percent of women asking for spousal support or maintenance in a divorce have reported at least one forced sexual assault by a partner.
• When there is domestic violence in a relationship, the risk of marital rape increases by 70 percent.
• Women with religious backgrounds were more likely to accept marital rape because of a fear of a spouse committing adultery or being cast as a sinner from a resulting divorce.

I see you provided no source. Good call on your part.

But even if your stats have any reliability, we sure as hell have better ones than your country. 63%?????

You see in the US, the public stands against true assaults and rapes of women. According to the article I posted, people in Morocco simply ignore it as if it doesn't happen.

And you say their prisons are just as humane as ours are in the US? Maybe you never met anybody who was in prison there:





These people talk about conditions of starving, no running water from mid morning to late afternoon, people sleeping on concrete floors, no medical care, just a real (as Trump would put it) shithole.

Jail is not suppose to be a vacation spot, for the violent criminals they should make it hard for them to not look forward to going back jail. Jail in the US is almost a reward and dont get me started on how the justice is system is fucked. The rich in most cases dont even go to jail, is made only for the poor.
And your stats are made up, I live in both countries the US is far more dangerous for women, girls, kids and men in general. 30000 deaths per year or so, that's worse than been in Syria or Iraq.
Trust me i love this country but guns availability fucked it up, plus entertainment, low morals, broken family system, selfishness, savage capitalism and so forth.
You as a foreigner if you go to Morocco and wonder in poor remote areas they will feed you and host is part of our culture....you'll find 1 member of the family can support 7 members of his family and so forth, we take care of our elderly people and we dont throw them in senior homes.....there is a huge cultural differences.

If it's such a wonderful place, move back. We won't miss you.

I get so perturbed by foreigners coming here and then telling us the faults of our country compared to theirs. Yet you came here, we don't go there. And there's a reason why millions of people are trying to get here as well.

Yes, guns and our Constitution are part of living in a free society. You have the freedom here to be anybody you wish. You can be poor if you want, middle-class if you want, and even wealthy if you want. We live in the greatest country in the world. Part of freedom is being able to defend yourself from bad people.

You don't even realize that you supported my point. The reason people don't want to be imprisoned in other countries is because it's not a cake walk like in the US. It's not the guns that are the problem, it's Democrats.

I told you I love and live both countries. Yes millions come to the US 5o make a good living, business, school and else....but if wants points our the flaws he has to go out? What kind of logic is that ?
The constitution is outdated and needs to be updated.
And if an amendment is causing thousands of deaths and and thousands of long lasting injuries , maybe and just maybe it needs revisiting?

As I said you are numb to the violence because you grow up in it.

No, I didn't grow up in it. In fact growing up, it was the most peaceful area to be a kid. Outside of police officers, I never seen a gun until I became an adult. Nobody in our neighborhood owned one.

Our Constitution is fine, it's the people that want to constantly change it that's the problem. I take umbrage when people come here and then complain. So yes, that's my attitude. If you don't like it here, you simply leave. It's bad enough when our own people complain about our government systems yet alone visitors of foreigners. It's like somebody going to a restaurant and always complaining about the food they serve, but they keep coming back. If you don't like the food we serve, go to another restaurant where you think it's better.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's not illegal in your state. I looked it up.

It's not a choice between one or the other.

Here's a video of a guy putting on a bullet-proof vest. It takes him about 2 seconds to put the vest on.

So Ray From Cleveland , is two seconds too long to put on your bullet-proof vest???

If you're done giving me bullshit excuses ("It's illegal", "It takes too long to put on"), maybe you can actually address the question.

What's the REAL reason you don't wear a bullet-proof vest when you go out to pick up the mail? It's better to have one and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Right?

Perhaps some people do use one. I don't know. My mailbox is next to my side door by my driveway. I don't even step out of the house; just reach over and get the mail out.

Why do you choose not to wear a bullet-proof vest when you go to the store?

You carry your gun. You don't wear a bullet-proof vest. Why? It's better to have one and not need one, than to need one and not have one.

Just be honest. No bullshit excuses. It's not illegal and it doesn't take too long to put on.

I don't know how many times you leftists need a question answered to get it through your thick head. So once again: A bulletproof vest only offers some protection. They don't protect any of your limbs or head. If somebody is shooting at an unarmed person, they can continue shooting until dead. If you have a gun instead of a vest, you have a chance at chasing away an attacker and quite possibly kill him in the process.

We lose over 140 police officers a year in this country, and they don't just wear vests. They wear all kinds of safety/ bulletproof equipment as I explained earlier about that police officer that was a student of mine. Yet they get killed anyway. That's why you need a gun instead of a vest.

"If you have a gun instead of a vest..."
"That's why you need a gun instead of a vest."

You're going backwards, Ray. This was already explained to you in post #354. See for yourself.

I'm not comparing the usefulness of gun vs bullet-proof vest. Which of the following is more safe:

1) A gun and a bullet-proof vest.
2) A gun without a bullet-proof vest.

One can obviously use both. You're desperately trying to make this a CHOICE between the two, which is simply not the case.

Sure, a gun and a vest would be the best combination, but who wants to put on a vest just to get the mail. At times I carry my gun when doing yard work. If somebody shoots at me from the street, I can shoot back. With a vest on, all I can do is try to find a tree to hide behind.

Plus a vest is not practical in warm weather. It's bulky and needs to be covered. I can put my gun in my back holster and nobody would see the thing.

What would be better than a vest and a gun? A tank would be nice too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get one.

 

[XponentialChaos]

So Ray From Cleveland , is two seconds too long to put on your bullet-proof vest???

If you're done giving me bullshit excuses ("It's illegal", "It takes too long to put on"), maybe you can actually address the question.

What's the REAL reason you don't wear a bullet-proof vest when you go out to pick up the mail? It's better to have one and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Right?

Perhaps some people do use one. I don't know. My mailbox is next to my side door by my driveway. I don't even step out of the house; just reach over and get the mail out.

Why do you choose not to wear a bullet-proof vest when you go to the store?

You carry your gun. You don't wear a bullet-proof vest. Why? It's better to have one and not need one, than to need one and not have one.

Just be honest. No bullshit excuses. It's not illegal and it doesn't take too long to put on.

I don't know how many times you leftists need a question answered to get it through your thick head. So once again: A bulletproof vest only offers some protection. They don't protect any of your limbs or head. If somebody is shooting at an unarmed person, they can continue shooting until dead. If you have a gun instead of a vest, you have a chance at chasing away an attacker and quite possibly kill him in the process.

We lose over 140 police officers a year in this country, and they don't just wear vests. They wear all kinds of safety/ bulletproof equipment as I explained earlier about that police officer that was a student of mine. Yet they get killed anyway. That's why you need a gun instead of a vest.

"If you have a gun instead of a vest..."
"That's why you need a gun instead of a vest."

You're going backwards, Ray. This was already explained to you in post #354. See for yourself.

I'm not comparing the usefulness of gun vs bullet-proof vest. Which of the following is more safe:

1) A gun and a bullet-proof vest.
2) A gun without a bullet-proof vest.

One can obviously use both. You're desperately trying to make this a CHOICE between the two, which is simply not the case.

Sure, a gun and a vest would be the best combination, but who wants to put on a vest just to get the mail. At times I carry my gun when doing yard work. If somebody shoots at me from the street, I can shoot back. With a vest on, all I can do is try to find a tree to hide behind.

Plus a vest is not practical in warm weather. It's bulky and needs to be covered. I can put my gun in my back holster and nobody would see the thing.

What would be better than a vest and a gun? A tank would be nice too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get one.

"who wants to put on a vest just to get the mail."

It's better to have one and not need it, than to need it and not have it. The OP carries a gun while going to check the mail, so why not wear a bullet-proof vest too?

"If somebody shoots at me from the street, I can shoot back. With a vest on, all I can do is try to find a tree to hide behind."

In the above quote, you're once again making this sound like a choice between the gun and the vest. If you have a gun AND a vest, you can afford to be hit while also shooting back. Once again, the option of having BOTH is better than just having a gun.

"Plus a vest is not practical in warm weather."

Then do you intend to wear a bullet-proof vest during the winter?

"A tank would be nice too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get one."

It's illegal to own an operational tank. A bullet-proof vest can be legally owned.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Perhaps some people do use one. I don't know. My mailbox is next to my side door by my driveway. I don't even step out of the house; just reach over and get the mail out.

Why do you choose not to wear a bullet-proof vest when you go to the store?

You carry your gun. You don't wear a bullet-proof vest. Why? It's better to have one and not need one, than to need one and not have one.

Just be honest. No bullshit excuses. It's not illegal and it doesn't take too long to put on.

I don't know how many times you leftists need a question answered to get it through your thick head. So once again: A bulletproof vest only offers some protection. They don't protect any of your limbs or head. If somebody is shooting at an unarmed person, they can continue shooting until dead. If you have a gun instead of a vest, you have a chance at chasing away an attacker and quite possibly kill him in the process.

We lose over 140 police officers a year in this country, and they don't just wear vests. They wear all kinds of safety/ bulletproof equipment as I explained earlier about that police officer that was a student of mine. Yet they get killed anyway. That's why you need a gun instead of a vest.

"If you have a gun instead of a vest..."
"That's why you need a gun instead of a vest."

You're going backwards, Ray. This was already explained to you in post #354. See for yourself.

I'm not comparing the usefulness of gun vs bullet-proof vest. Which of the following is more safe:

1) A gun and a bullet-proof vest.
2) A gun without a bullet-proof vest.

One can obviously use both. You're desperately trying to make this a CHOICE between the two, which is simply not the case.

Sure, a gun and a vest would be the best combination, but who wants to put on a vest just to get the mail. At times I carry my gun when doing yard work. If somebody shoots at me from the street, I can shoot back. With a vest on, all I can do is try to find a tree to hide behind.

Plus a vest is not practical in warm weather. It's bulky and needs to be covered. I can put my gun in my back holster and nobody would see the thing.

What would be better than a vest and a gun? A tank would be nice too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get one.

"who wants to put on a vest just to get the mail."

It's better to have one and not need it, than to need it and not have it. The OP carries a gun while going to check the mail, so why not wear a bullet-proof vest too?

"If somebody shoots at me from the street, I can shoot back. With a vest on, all I can do is try to find a tree to hide behind."

In the above quote, you're once again making this sound like a choice between the gun and the vest. If you have a gun AND a vest, you can afford to be hit while also shooting back. Once again, the option of having BOTH is better than just having a gun.

"Plus a vest is not practical in warm weather."

Then do you intend to wear a bullet-proof vest during the winter?

"A tank would be nice too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get one."

It's illegal to own an operational tank. A bullet-proof vest can be legally owned.

How I protect myself is my choice, and I choose a firearm. I don't see why you have a problem with that. Vests are over 200 bucks and I'm not going to wear the bulky thing anyway. The only time I have to clean my gun is after I use it. I don't need to be cleaning a vest.

You spent ten posts trying to make a point, and I have yet to understand what that point is.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Why do you choose not to wear a bullet-proof vest when you go to the store?

You carry your gun. You don't wear a bullet-proof vest. Why? It's better to have one and not need one, than to need one and not have one w

Just be honest. No bullshit excuses. It's not illegal and it doesn't take too long to put on.

I don't know how many times you leftists need a question answered to get it through your thick head. So once again: A bulletproof vest only offers some protection. They don't protect any of your limbs or head. If somebody is shooting at an unarmed person, they can continue shooting until dead. If you have a gun instead of a vest, you have a chance at chasing away an attacker and quite possibly kill him in the process.

We lose over 140 police officers a year in this country, and they don't just wear vests. They wear all kinds of safety/ bulletproof equipment as I explained earlier about that police officer that was a student of mine. Yet they get killed anyway. That's why you need a gun instead of a vest.

"If you have a gun instead of a vest..."
"That's why you need a gun instead of a vest."

You're going backwards, Ray. This was already explained to you in post #354. See for yourself.

I'm not comparing the usefulness of gun vs bullet-proof vest. Which of the following is more safe:

1) A gun and a bullet-proof vest.
2) A gun without a bullet-proof vest.

One can obviously use both. You're desperately trying to make this a CHOICE between the two, which is simply not the case.

Sure, a gun and a vest would be the best combination, but who wants to put on a vest just to get the mail. At times I carry my gun when doing yard work. If somebody shoots at me from the street, I can shoot back. With a vest on, all I can do is try to find a tree to hide behind.

Plus a vest is not practical in warm weather. It's bulky and needs to be covered. I can put my gun in my back holster and nobody would see the thing.

What would be better than a vest and a gun? A tank would be nice too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get one.

"who wants to put on a vest just to get the mail."

It's better to have one and not need it, than to need it and not have it. The OP carries a gun while going to check the mail, so why not wear a bullet-proof vest too?

"If somebody shoots at me from the street, I can shoot back. With a vest on, all I can do is try to find a tree to hide behind."

In the above quote, you're once again making this sound like a choice between the gun and the vest. If you have a gun AND a vest, you can afford to be hit while also shooting back. Once again, the option of having BOTH is better than just having a gun.

"Plus a vest is not practical in warm weather."

Then do you intend to wear a bullet-proof vest during the winter?

"A tank would be nice too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get one."

It's illegal to own an operational tank. A bullet-proof vest can be legally owned.

How I protect myself is my choice, and I choose a firearm. I don't see why you have a problem with that. Vests are over 200 bucks and I'm not going to wear the bulky thing anyway. The only time I have to clean my gun is after I use it. I don't need to be cleaning a vest.

You spent ten posts trying to make a point, and I have yet to understand what that point is.

It's not my fault you can't honestly answer a simple question.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you've spent more than $200 on guns. Why are you unwilling to spend money on a bullet-proof vest? Why are you unwilling to wear one when we already agreed that they're better for your protection?

Oh so now cleaning is an issue? Here's an informative video on how to throw it in the washing machine. Doesn't seem too complicated to me, Ray. Too difficult for you?



Here is a list of stupid excuses that you have come up with:

- It's illegal. (It isn't)
- It takes too long to put on. (It takes 2 seconds to put on. I showed you a video)
- A gun works better than a vest. (It isn't a choice between the two. You can have both)
- A gun works better than a vest. (You made the same stupid argument twice.)
- A vest is not practical in warm weather. (Yet you won't wear one in cold weather?)
- Tanks are better for self defense. (But they are illegal)
- They cost money. (If self-defense is so important, then why not spend money on both guns and a bullet-proof vest?)
- They need to be washed. (Looks pretty easy to me. You just throw it in the washing machine.)

The bottom line: Why don't you wear a bullet-proof vest if self-defense is that important to you? You're coming up with all kinds of stupid excuses for taking less precautions to defend yourself. I don't think self-defense is as high a priority as you claim it to be.

 

[rightwinger]

Let’s see..

I’m leaving the house
Somebody may piss me off today, I had better bring my gun

 

[Issa]

We talking ratio of crimes the size of population has nothing to do it.
Moroccans value human life more, hence they have less murders than the US by far.
And yes Moroccan parliament always had more representation of women in recent years than its counter part especially the GOP part of it.


Oh and speaking of marital rape in the US:

• re committed by husbands, common-law partners, or boyfriends.
• Twenty-nine percent of all sexual assaults of adult women were committed by husbands, common-law partners, or boyfriends.
• Nine percent of all reported rapes were committed by a husband or an ex-husband.
• Up to 30 percent of women asking for spousal support or maintenance in a divorce have reported at least one forced sexual assault by a partner.
• When there is domestic violence in a relationship, the risk of marital rape increases by 70 percent.
• Women with religious backgrounds were more likely to accept marital rape because of a fear of a spouse committing adultery or being cast as a sinner from a resulting divorce.

I see you provided no source. Good call on your part.

But even if your stats have any reliability, we sure as hell have better ones than your country. 63%?????

You see in the US, the public stands against true assaults and rapes of women. According to the article I posted, people in Morocco simply ignore it as if it doesn't happen.

And you say their prisons are just as humane as ours are in the US? Maybe you never met anybody who was in prison there:





These people talk about conditions of starving, no running water from mid morning to late afternoon, people sleeping on concrete floors, no medical care, just a real (as Trump would put it) shithole.

Jail is not suppose to be a vacation spot, for the violent criminals they should make it hard for them to not look forward to going back jail. Jail in the US is almost a reward and dont get me started on how the justice is system is fucked. The rich in most cases dont even go to jail, is made only for the poor.
And your stats are made up, I live in both countries the US is far more dangerous for women, girls, kids and men in general. 30000 deaths per year or so, that's worse than been in Syria or Iraq.
Trust me i love this country but guns availability fucked it up, plus entertainment, low morals, broken family system, selfishness, savage capitalism and so forth.
You as a foreigner if you go to Morocco and wonder in poor remote areas they will feed you and host is part of our culture....you'll find 1 member of the family can support 7 members of his family and so forth, we take care of our elderly people and we dont throw them in senior homes.....there is a huge cultural differences.

If it's such a wonderful place, move back. We won't miss you.

I get so perturbed by foreigners coming here and then telling us the faults of our country compared to theirs. Yet you came here, we don't go there. And there's a reason why millions of people are trying to get here as well.

Yes, guns and our Constitution are part of living in a free society. You have the freedom here to be anybody you wish. You can be poor if you want, middle-class if you want, and even wealthy if you want. We live in the greatest country in the world. Part of freedom is being able to defend yourself from bad people.

You don't even realize that you supported my point. The reason people don't want to be imprisoned in other countries is because it's not a cake walk like in the US. It's not the guns that are the problem, it's Democrats.

I told you I love and live both countries. Yes millions come to the US 5o make a good living, business, school and else....but if wants points our the flaws he has to go out? What kind of logic is that ?
The constitution is outdated and needs to be updated.
And if an amendment is causing thousands of deaths and and thousands of long lasting injuries , maybe and just maybe it needs revisiting?

As I said you are numb to the violence because you grow up in it.

No, I didn't grow up in it. In fact growing up, it was the most peaceful area to be a kid. Outside of police officers, I never seen a gun until I became an adult. Nobody in our neighborhood owned one.

Our Constitution is fine, it's the people that want to constantly change it that's the problem. I take umbrage when people come here and then complain. So yes, that's my attitude. If you don't like it here, you simply leave. It's bad enough when our own people complain about our government systems yet alone visitors of foreigners. It's like somebody going to a restaurant and always complaining about the food they serve, but they keep coming back. If you don't like the food we serve, go to another restaurant where you think it's better.

I can only talk about myself on that one...do I love the US? Yes absolutely. it has so many good things but also so many bad things.
And dont forget America it is what it is because of immigrants what they brought with them. Throughout the years.
I grow up in a gun free country, when I moved here I saw a gun violence epedemic..so to me the availability of guns contribute to big time in the gun violence is simple as that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Let’s see..

I’m leaving the house
Somebody may piss me off today, I had better bring my gun

Yep, that's why armed citizens carry guns, in case somebody pisses them off.

But you know, we were talking about Americans defending themselves, and your claim was it seldom ever happens because it's not reported where you live. Since this happened just last night (and it happens all the time here in the Cleveland area) I thought it would be a good time to post it.

Little Caesars employee fires back at suspect during armed robbery attempt

Gee, do you think the customer just pissed the worker off or something?

 

[XponentialChaos]

Let’s see..

I’m leaving the house
Somebody may piss me off today, I had better bring my gun

Yep, that's why armed citizens carry guns, in case somebody pisses them off.

But you know, we were talking about Americans defending themselves, and your claim was it seldom ever happens because it's not reported where you live. Since this happened just last night (and it happens all the time here in the Cleveland area) I thought it would be a good time to post it.

Little Caesars employee fires back at suspect during armed robbery attempt

Gee, do you think the customer just pissed the worker off or something?

"After an initial investigation, we’re told it looks like the suspect shot the victim and the victim returned fire, but the investigation into the incident continues."

Gun fire being exchanged. That sounds dangerous.

Yet you choose not to wear a bullet-proof vest. Why?

 

[rightwinger]

Let’s see..

I’m leaving the house
Somebody may piss me off today, I had better bring my gun

Yep, that's why armed citizens carry guns, in case somebody pisses them off.

But you know, we were talking about Americans defending themselves, and your claim was it seldom ever happens because it's not reported where you live. Since this happened just last night (and it happens all the time here in the Cleveland area) I thought it would be a good time to post it.

Little Caesars employee fires back at suspect during armed robbery attempt

Gee, do you think the customer just pissed the worker off or something?

Cherry picking
Guns caused 33,000 unnecessary deaths last year

Show me 33,000 Little Caesar employees to the rescue

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I see you provided no source. Good call on your part.

But even if your stats have any reliability, we sure as hell have better ones than your country. 63%?????

You see in the US, the public stands against true assaults and rapes of women. According to the article I posted, people in Morocco simply ignore it as if it doesn't happen.

And you say their prisons are just as humane as ours are in the US? Maybe you never met anybody who was in prison there:





These people talk about conditions of starving, no running water from mid morning to late afternoon, people sleeping on concrete floors, no medical care, just a real (as Trump would put it) shithole.

Jail is not suppose to be a vacation spot, for the violent criminals they should make it hard for them to not look forward to going back jail. Jail in the US is almost a reward and dont get me started on how the justice is system is fucked. The rich in most cases dont even go to jail, is made only for the poor.
And your stats are made up, I live in both countries the US is far more dangerous for women, girls, kids and men in general. 30000 deaths per year or so, that's worse than been in Syria or Iraq.
Trust me i love this country but guns availability fucked it up, plus entertainment, low morals, broken family system, selfishness, savage capitalism and so forth.
You as a foreigner if you go to Morocco and wonder in poor remote areas they will feed you and host is part of our culture....you'll find 1 member of the family can support 7 members of his family and so forth, we take care of our elderly people and we dont throw them in senior homes.....there is a huge cultural differences.

If it's such a wonderful place, move back. We won't miss you.

I get so perturbed by foreigners coming here and then telling us the faults of our country compared to theirs. Yet you came here, we don't go there. And there's a reason why millions of people are trying to get here as well.

Yes, guns and our Constitution are part of living in a free society. You have the freedom here to be anybody you wish. You can be poor if you want, middle-class if you want, and even wealthy if you want. We live in the greatest country in the world. Part of freedom is being able to defend yourself from bad people.

You don't even realize that you supported my point. The reason people don't want to be imprisoned in other countries is because it's not a cake walk like in the US. It's not the guns that are the problem, it's Democrats.

I told you I love and live both countries. Yes millions come to the US 5o make a good living, business, school and else....but if wants points our the flaws he has to go out? What kind of logic is that ?
The constitution is outdated and needs to be updated.
And if an amendment is causing thousands of deaths and and thousands of long lasting injuries , maybe and just maybe it needs revisiting?

As I said you are numb to the violence because you grow up in it.

No, I didn't grow up in it. In fact growing up, it was the most peaceful area to be a kid. Outside of police officers, I never seen a gun until I became an adult. Nobody in our neighborhood owned one.

Our Constitution is fine, it's the people that want to constantly change it that's the problem. I take umbrage when people come here and then complain. So yes, that's my attitude. If you don't like it here, you simply leave. It's bad enough when our own people complain about our government systems yet alone visitors of foreigners. It's like somebody going to a restaurant and always complaining about the food they serve, but they keep coming back. If you don't like the food we serve, go to another restaurant where you think it's better.

I can only talk about myself on that one...do I love the US? Yes absolutely. it has so many good things but also so many bad things.
And dont forget America it is what it is because of immigrants what they brought with them. Throughout the years.
I grow up in a gun free country, when I moved here I saw a gun violence epedemic..so to me the availability of guns contribute to big time in the gun violence is simple as that.

Then I think if it's one thing you should learn about this country, that is it has it's good points and bad just like every other country. Apparently you moved here because we have more good in this country than yours.

Our society works the way it does because of all the freedoms we have, and yes, including the right to use deadly force for self-defense. Guns do way more good things for our society than bad. But it's like the internet. It's how you use it. Most people will use the internet for good or great things. Others will use it to lure children into sex or learn how to make deadly bombs. But removing the internet from all people will not stop the problem or make things better for society. Bad people will still find a way to make bombs, or find different ways to seduce children or set people up for robbery.

As I pointed out earlier, crime and gun crimes went on the decrease starting in the early 90's. It's proportional to more states adopting CCW programs and creating laws that protect the shooter. It didn't stop and reverse itself until the Ferguson Effect kicked in. If not for that, I'd be willing to bet it would continue the decline.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Let’s see..

I’m leaving the house
Somebody may piss me off today, I had better bring my gun

Yep, that's why armed citizens carry guns, in case somebody pisses them off.

But you know, we were talking about Americans defending themselves, and your claim was it seldom ever happens because it's not reported where you live. Since this happened just last night (and it happens all the time here in the Cleveland area) I thought it would be a good time to post it.

Little Caesars employee fires back at suspect during armed robbery attempt

Gee, do you think the customer just pissed the worker off or something?

Cherry picking
Guns caused 33,000 unnecessary deaths last year

Show me 33,000 Little Caesar employees to the rescue

Talk about cherry picking.

33,636 deaths due to "injury by firearms" (10.6 deaths per 100,000 persons).[7] These deaths included 21,175 suicides,[7] 11,208 homicides,[8]505 deaths due to accidental or negligent discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms use with "undetermined intent".[7] The ownership and control of guns are among the most widely debated issues in the country.

Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia

So most of the gun deaths are self inflicted; suicide. Homicides are deaths that may be legal or illegal. If a police officer shoots an armed suspect and kills him, that's considered a homicide. If this pizza shop worker killed the suspect, that would be considered homicide.

So try to inflate the numbers all you like. One of us will just insert truth into your claims.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Let’s see..

I’m leaving the house
Somebody may piss me off today, I had better bring my gun

Yep, that's why armed citizens carry guns, in case somebody pisses them off.

But you know, we were talking about Americans defending themselves, and your claim was it seldom ever happens because it's not reported where you live. Since this happened just last night (and it happens all the time here in the Cleveland area) I thought it would be a good time to post it.

Little Caesars employee fires back at suspect during armed robbery attempt

Gee, do you think the customer just pissed the worker off or something?

"After an initial investigation, we’re told it looks like the suspect shot the victim and the victim returned fire, but the investigation into the incident continues."

Gun fire being exchanged. That sounds dangerous.

Yet you choose not to wear a bullet-proof vest. Why?

It is dangerous. That's why the worker had a gun. Good thing he did too, otherwise he may be dead today.

 

[progressive hunter]

Let’s see..

I’m leaving the house
Somebody may piss me off today, I had better bring my gun

Yep, that's why armed citizens carry guns, in case somebody pisses them off.

But you know, we were talking about Americans defending themselves, and your claim was it seldom ever happens because it's not reported where you live. Since this happened just last night (and it happens all the time here in the Cleveland area) I thought it would be a good time to post it.

Little Caesars employee fires back at suspect during armed robbery attempt

Gee, do you think the customer just pissed the worker off or something?

Cherry picking
Guns caused 33,000 unnecessary deaths last year

Show me 33,000 Little Caesar employees to the rescue

Another study estimates there are 1,029,615 DGUs per year “for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere” excluding “military service, police work, or work as a security guard,” (within the range of the National Academies’ paper), yielding an estimate of 162,000 cases per year where someone “almost certainly would have been killed” if they “had not used a gun for protection.”

Any Study Of 'Gun Violence' Should Include How Guns Save Lives