Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus (November 2, 1883)
A bronze plaque with the words of the poem "The New Colossus" raised on it. The 1903 bronze plaque located in the Statue of Liberty's museum.

NPS
That was a fine sentiment in 1903...

The population of the US was then 76,000,000...

There was still plenty of land to be had...

There was a job for anyone who wanted one...

Today, however...

The population of the US is 330,000,000...

The land has all been parceled out...

We struggle to keep our own employed...

We struggle to provide educational and medical and social services for our own one-third of a billion souls...

Never mind 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens now present upon United States soil without our express prior consent...

Never mind the millions more invaders who will flood across our borders, should we be stupid enough to allow it...

That plaque represented a fine sentiment, in its time...

Unfortunately, it's time is over... those sentiments are no longer practical... best to hang-up a 'No Vacancy' sign.

Perhaps it's time to declare a two- or four-year moratorium on all immigration to the United States.
There is a 6 million job surplus now and that is likely to grow to 24 million in the next decade as the workforce shrinks do to baby boomers exiting the workforce and low birthrates. There is plenty of room for growth in America.

We should not open our borders nor should we seal them. We need more legal immigrants and we need workable immigration laws and policies.

Automation could kill 73 million U.S. jobs by 2030
Automation does kill jobs but it creates more jobs than it eliminates in most industries. A study by Deloitte found found 800,000 jobs were eliminated as the result of AI and other automation technologies. But get this: 3.5 million new jobs were created as well, and those jobs paid on average nearly $13,000 more per year than the ones that were lost.

A company might automate and eliminate thousands of factory floor workers but by doing so, they increase profitability making possible investments in new products and plants.
Vast numbers of Americans (myself included) see no reason to take a chance on there being enough jobs in future...

Best to eject the 11-12,000,000 invaders now, and de-incentivize the millions more who are considering crossing our borders...

Best to do it now, while there's a still a POTUS agreeable to such an approach, and a SCOTUS and other court appointees to firm it up.
 
It will be a wall in some places and a fence in others. It depends on the application of the area. Trump isn't an engineer.

Furthermore it's the Democrats stopping Trump from what he would like to spend, so put the blame where it really belongs.
Trump's campaign promise was a big beautiful wall covering the southern border which would stop illegal immigration from the south. Then the big beautiful wall covering the border became a 1000 mile wall. Then the big beautiful wall became a project to replace a 112 miles of reinforced fencing with a 216 mile slatted steel fence, increased electronic motoring, and aerial surveillance. This is beginning to sound a lot like the increased border security under Obama and Bush.

And that's Trump's fault or the Democrats?

Trump asked for 25 billion originally. HIs asking price now is 1/5 of that, and the Democrats are going to fight him tooth and nail for it. So now you blame less quality on Trump instead of them?

What is it with you on the left that never......ever want to assume responsibility for your actions? Now if the Democrats approved 25 billion and Trump didn't deliver, then you'd have a solid argument. But to say Trump failed us when it was actually the Democrats is an out and out lie.
Yes, it is Trump's fault. Don't you remember the Trump campaign rhetoric.

"I am the greatest deal maker this county has every seen."

“MY STYLE of deal-making is quite simple and straightforward. I aim very high, and then I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing to get what I’m after. And I always get what I want."

"When it comes to negotiations, democrats are a push over"

Well it seems the greatest deal maker that ever lived has met his match simply because he does not know how to deal with congress. In order to get any money for his wall he has to offer House democrats concessions on immigration and that's not going to be easy because almost anything he offers will cost far right votes.

House democrats shouldn't cave in. They have the votes and they have the public. Neither the wall nor Trump's government shutdown is popular. Cowing down to the school yard bully would cost them dearly.

So would the surrender of this country to foreigners. Trump has two choices: go with his instinct and give people what they elected him for, or give into polls Lord knows how badly manipulated.

If he chooses the latter, what we are looking at is the beginning of the end of the Great Experiment; the end our our country as we know it.
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.
Trump is unfit to hold office...

His wall is a stupid idea...

Nevertheless, even a broken clock is right twice a day...

Closing down the border and putting the hammer down on Illegal Aliens are a correct and effective approach...

Hell, declare a Federal-level State of Emergency along the whole friggin' southern border, which frees the military of posse comitatus restrictions.
 
The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus (November 2, 1883)
A bronze plaque with the words of the poem "The New Colossus" raised on it. The 1903 bronze plaque located in the Statue of Liberty's museum.

NPS
That was a fine sentiment in 1903...

The population of the US was then 76,000,000...

There was still plenty of land to be had...

There was a job for anyone who wanted one...

Today, however...

The population of the US is 330,000,000...

The land has all been parceled out...

We struggle to keep our own employed...

We struggle to provide educational and medical and social services for our own one-third of a billion souls...

Never mind 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens now present upon United States soil without our express prior consent...

Never mind the millions more invaders who will flood across our borders, should we be stupid enough to allow it...

That plaque represented a fine sentiment, in its time...

Unfortunately, it's time is over... those sentiments are no longer practical... best to hang-up a 'No Vacancy' sign.

Perhaps it's time to declare a two- or four-year moratorium on all immigration to the United States.
There is a 6 million job surplus now and that is likely to grow to 24 million in the next decade as the workforce shrinks do to baby boomers exiting the workforce and low birthrates. There is plenty of room for growth in America.

We should not open our borders nor should we seal them. We need more legal immigrants and we need workable immigration laws and policies.

Automation could kill 73 million U.S. jobs by 2030
Automation does kill jobs but it creates more jobs than it eliminates in most industries. A study by Deloitte found found 800,000 jobs were eliminated as the result of AI and other automation technologies. But get this: 3.5 million new jobs were created as well, and those jobs paid on average nearly $13,000 more per year than the ones that were lost.

A company might automate and eliminate thousands of factory floor workers but by doing so, they increase profitability making possible investments in new products and plants.

There is never a net increase in jobs because of automation. Automation company X employs 1000 workers. They make a robot that eliminates 500 jobs in a window manufacturing company. That means there is a net gain of 500 jobs except for the fact they don't make just one machine, they make hundreds or thousands. The cost is in the engineering of the product. After it's produced, it's merely a process of duplicating the first one which is much less expensive than creating the first one.

The next job eliminator is driverless cars. It will eventually wipeout cab drivers and Uber drivers all across the country. Will it create jobs to make these products? Yes it will, but it will eliminate more jobs than it created. They are doing the same with over the road tractor-trailers although that will take some years to perfect. But companies are already buying and using them.

How do I know all this? Because I've been working in industry for decades. I've seen our customers shrink in staff while increasing their product output. I seen the closure of businesses because they didn't make the same investments as their competitors.

Bottom line is this: Don't let this great economy fool you. It's not going to last forever and neither are the employee deficits we see today. Once you bring in all these low-skilled worker and that happens, there will be few jobs for Americans. Then it will be a wage competition between the foreigners and the natives which of course is a battle we will lose. Our standard of living is decreasing for blue collar workers much thanks to the foreigners that are here today, and I see no advantage in accelerating that.
 
It will be a wall in some places and a fence in others. It depends on the application of the area. Trump isn't an engineer.

Furthermore it's the Democrats stopping Trump from what he would like to spend, so put the blame where it really belongs.
Trump's campaign promise was a big beautiful wall covering the southern border which would stop illegal immigration from the south. Then the big beautiful wall covering the border became a 1000 mile wall. Then the big beautiful wall became a project to replace a 112 miles of reinforced fencing with a 216 mile slatted steel fence, increased electronic motoring, and aerial surveillance. This is beginning to sound a lot like the increased border security under Obama and Bush.

And that's Trump's fault or the Democrats?

Trump asked for 25 billion originally. HIs asking price now is 1/5 of that, and the Democrats are going to fight him tooth and nail for it. So now you blame less quality on Trump instead of them?

What is it with you on the left that never......ever want to assume responsibility for your actions? Now if the Democrats approved 25 billion and Trump didn't deliver, then you'd have a solid argument. But to say Trump failed us when it was actually the Democrats is an out and out lie.
Yes, it is Trump's fault. Don't you remember the Trump campaign rhetoric.

"I am the greatest deal maker this county has every seen."

“MY STYLE of deal-making is quite simple and straightforward. I aim very high, and then I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing to get what I’m after. And I always get what I want."

"When it comes to negotiations, democrats are a push over"

Well it seems the greatest deal maker that ever lived has met his match simply because he does not know how to deal with congress. In order to get any money for his wall he has to offer House democrats concessions on immigration and that's not going to be easy because almost anything he offers will cost far right votes.

House democrats shouldn't cave in. They have the votes and they have the public. Neither the wall nor Trump's government shutdown is popular. Cowing down to the school yard bully would cost them dearly.

So would the surrender of this country to foreigners. Trump has two choices: go with his instinct and give people what they elected him for, or give into polls Lord knows how badly manipulated.

If he chooses the latter, what we are looking at is the beginning of the end of the Great Experiment; the end our our country as we know it.
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.

Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
 
The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus (November 2, 1883)
A bronze plaque with the words of the poem "The New Colossus" raised on it. The 1903 bronze plaque located in the Statue of Liberty's museum.

NPS
That was a fine sentiment in 1903...

The population of the US was then 76,000,000...

There was still plenty of land to be had...

There was a job for anyone who wanted one...

Today, however...

The population of the US is 330,000,000...

The land has all been parceled out...

We struggle to keep our own employed...

We struggle to provide educational and medical and social services for our own one-third of a billion souls...

Never mind 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens now present upon United States soil without our express prior consent...

Never mind the millions more invaders who will flood across our borders, should we be stupid enough to allow it...

That plaque represented a fine sentiment, in its time...

Unfortunately, it's time is over... those sentiments are no longer practical... best to hang-up a 'No Vacancy' sign.

Perhaps it's time to declare a two- or four-year moratorium on all immigration to the United States.
There is a 6 million job surplus now and that is likely to grow to 24 million in the next decade as the workforce shrinks do to baby boomers exiting the workforce and low birthrates. There is plenty of room for growth in America.

We should not open our borders nor should we seal them. We need more legal immigrants and we need workable immigration laws and policies.

Automation could kill 73 million U.S. jobs by 2030
Automation does kill jobs but it creates more jobs than it eliminates in most industries. A study by Deloitte found found 800,000 jobs were eliminated as the result of AI and other automation technologies. But get this: 3.5 million new jobs were created as well, and those jobs paid on average nearly $13,000 more per year than the ones that were lost.

A company might automate and eliminate thousands of factory floor workers but by doing so, they increase profitability making possible investments in new products and plants.
Vast numbers of Americans (myself included) see no reason to take a chance on there being enough jobs in future...

Best to eject the 11-12,000,000 invaders now, and de-incentivize the millions more who are considering crossing our borders...

Best to do it now, while there's a still a POTUS agreeable to such an approach, and a SCOTUS and other court appointees to firm it up.
What you don't seem to understand is the increase in the size of the workforce without immigrant labor is less than the number of jobs being created. So without immigrants we have a growing shortage of workers. If we don't have the workers, the jobs go out of the country and with it economic expansion.

This trend will continue throughout most of this century due to baby boomers leaving the workforce, earlier retirements and a falling birth rate. This trend also creates another serious problem. How are we going to finance the additional cost of Medicare and Social Security with an aging population without a lot more younger workers paying taxes?
 
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That was a fine sentiment in 1903...

The population of the US was then 76,000,000...

There was still plenty of land to be had...

There was a job for anyone who wanted one...

Today, however...

The population of the US is 330,000,000...

The land has all been parceled out...

We struggle to keep our own employed...

We struggle to provide educational and medical and social services for our own one-third of a billion souls...

Never mind 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens now present upon United States soil without our express prior consent...

Never mind the millions more invaders who will flood across our borders, should we be stupid enough to allow it...

That plaque represented a fine sentiment, in its time...

Unfortunately, it's time is over... those sentiments are no longer practical... best to hang-up a 'No Vacancy' sign.

Perhaps it's time to declare a two- or four-year moratorium on all immigration to the United States.
There is a 6 million job surplus now and that is likely to grow to 24 million in the next decade as the workforce shrinks do to baby boomers exiting the workforce and low birthrates. There is plenty of room for growth in America.

We should not open our borders nor should we seal them. We need more legal immigrants and we need workable immigration laws and policies.

Automation could kill 73 million U.S. jobs by 2030
Automation does kill jobs but it creates more jobs than it eliminates in most industries. A study by Deloitte found found 800,000 jobs were eliminated as the result of AI and other automation technologies. But get this: 3.5 million new jobs were created as well, and those jobs paid on average nearly $13,000 more per year than the ones that were lost.

A company might automate and eliminate thousands of factory floor workers but by doing so, they increase profitability making possible investments in new products and plants.
Vast numbers of Americans (myself included) see no reason to take a chance on there being enough jobs in future...

Best to eject the 11-12,000,000 invaders now, and de-incentivize the millions more who are considering crossing our borders...

Best to do it now, while there's a still a POTUS agreeable to such an approach, and a SCOTUS and other court appointees to firm it up.
What you don't seem to understand is the increase in the size of the workforce without immigrant labor is less than the number of jobs being created. So without immigrants we have a growing shortage of workers. If we don't have the workers, the jobs go out of the country and with it economic expansion.

This trend will continue throughout most of this century due to baby boomers leaving the workforce, earlier retirements and a falling birth rate.
Then we bring in legal immigrants after every American who wants a job has a job that pays a living wage.
 
Tourists that wouldn't want to go home to their native paradise. Something like that? :lol:
why not? Capitalism works. They could make money here and go home when there is a decent exchange rate. They could "set up shop" back home. With our current, lousy right wing management, they are stuck in the US and merely increase their risk leaving and returning.
The door is currently closed on beaners. At least until we have a fresh batch of new lawns to mow.
you merely have an inferior argument. that is all.
Door is still closed on tamale chuggers.
you need a superior argument.
No I don’t, the door is already closed.
 
You must be jealous of white people that they can create great countries, and you short brown people can't create anything but shitholes.
they were already created. it must be your turn or whitey would not get so much of the blame.
They were created by our ancestors. Your ancestors build the shitholes you all want to get away from. Now go suck an enchilada.
Is Daniel Hispanic?
Yes, he admitted to trying to bring up the rest of his family.
You ever Yodle on your mountains?
Do you ever mistake a female beaner’s pussy for a hairy taco?
 
Trump's campaign promise was a big beautiful wall covering the southern border which would stop illegal immigration from the south. Then the big beautiful wall covering the border became a 1000 mile wall. Then the big beautiful wall became a project to replace a 112 miles of reinforced fencing with a 216 mile slatted steel fence, increased electronic motoring, and aerial surveillance. This is beginning to sound a lot like the increased border security under Obama and Bush.

And that's Trump's fault or the Democrats?

Trump asked for 25 billion originally. HIs asking price now is 1/5 of that, and the Democrats are going to fight him tooth and nail for it. So now you blame less quality on Trump instead of them?

What is it with you on the left that never......ever want to assume responsibility for your actions? Now if the Democrats approved 25 billion and Trump didn't deliver, then you'd have a solid argument. But to say Trump failed us when it was actually the Democrats is an out and out lie.
Yes, it is Trump's fault. Don't you remember the Trump campaign rhetoric.

"I am the greatest deal maker this county has every seen."

“MY STYLE of deal-making is quite simple and straightforward. I aim very high, and then I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing to get what I’m after. And I always get what I want."

"When it comes to negotiations, democrats are a push over"

Well it seems the greatest deal maker that ever lived has met his match simply because he does not know how to deal with congress. In order to get any money for his wall he has to offer House democrats concessions on immigration and that's not going to be easy because almost anything he offers will cost far right votes.

House democrats shouldn't cave in. They have the votes and they have the public. Neither the wall nor Trump's government shutdown is popular. Cowing down to the school yard bully would cost them dearly.

So would the surrender of this country to foreigners. Trump has two choices: go with his instinct and give people what they elected him for, or give into polls Lord knows how badly manipulated.

If he chooses the latter, what we are looking at is the beginning of the end of the Great Experiment; the end our our country as we know it.
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.

Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
I didn't say Trump was going to halt all immigration. He said he might shutdown the border if he can't get his wall. If he shutdowns down the border, the Senate would join the House in a resolution to nullify his EO. That would probably also end the shutdown. Most Senate Republican are facing reelection in 2020 and they certain would not support a presidential action that caused serious problems for tens of million of Americans, not to mention the financial repercussions.
 
And that's Trump's fault or the Democrats?

Trump asked for 25 billion originally. HIs asking price now is 1/5 of that, and the Democrats are going to fight him tooth and nail for it. So now you blame less quality on Trump instead of them?

What is it with you on the left that never......ever want to assume responsibility for your actions? Now if the Democrats approved 25 billion and Trump didn't deliver, then you'd have a solid argument. But to say Trump failed us when it was actually the Democrats is an out and out lie.
Yes, it is Trump's fault. Don't you remember the Trump campaign rhetoric.

"I am the greatest deal maker this county has every seen."

“MY STYLE of deal-making is quite simple and straightforward. I aim very high, and then I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing to get what I’m after. And I always get what I want."

"When it comes to negotiations, democrats are a push over"

Well it seems the greatest deal maker that ever lived has met his match simply because he does not know how to deal with congress. In order to get any money for his wall he has to offer House democrats concessions on immigration and that's not going to be easy because almost anything he offers will cost far right votes.

House democrats shouldn't cave in. They have the votes and they have the public. Neither the wall nor Trump's government shutdown is popular. Cowing down to the school yard bully would cost them dearly.

So would the surrender of this country to foreigners. Trump has two choices: go with his instinct and give people what they elected him for, or give into polls Lord knows how badly manipulated.

If he chooses the latter, what we are looking at is the beginning of the end of the Great Experiment; the end our our country as we know it.
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.

Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
I didn't say Trump was going to halt all immigration. He said he might shutdown the border if he can't get his wall. If he shutdowns down the border, the Senate would join the House in a resolution to nullify his EO. That would probably also end the shutdown. Most Senate Republican are facing reelection in 2020 and they certain would not support a presidential action that caused serious problems for tens of million of Americans, not to mention the financial repercussions.

Ban-Of-Muslims-And-Others-Already-U.S.-Law-8-U.S.-Code-1182.jpg
 
That was a fine sentiment in 1903...

The population of the US was then 76,000,000...

There was still plenty of land to be had...

There was a job for anyone who wanted one...

Today, however...

The population of the US is 330,000,000...

The land has all been parceled out...

We struggle to keep our own employed...

We struggle to provide educational and medical and social services for our own one-third of a billion souls...

Never mind 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens now present upon United States soil without our express prior consent...

Never mind the millions more invaders who will flood across our borders, should we be stupid enough to allow it...

That plaque represented a fine sentiment, in its time...

Unfortunately, it's time is over... those sentiments are no longer practical... best to hang-up a 'No Vacancy' sign.

Perhaps it's time to declare a two- or four-year moratorium on all immigration to the United States.
There is a 6 million job surplus now and that is likely to grow to 24 million in the next decade as the workforce shrinks do to baby boomers exiting the workforce and low birthrates. There is plenty of room for growth in America.

We should not open our borders nor should we seal them. We need more legal immigrants and we need workable immigration laws and policies.

Automation could kill 73 million U.S. jobs by 2030
Automation does kill jobs but it creates more jobs than it eliminates in most industries. A study by Deloitte found found 800,000 jobs were eliminated as the result of AI and other automation technologies. But get this: 3.5 million new jobs were created as well, and those jobs paid on average nearly $13,000 more per year than the ones that were lost.

A company might automate and eliminate thousands of factory floor workers but by doing so, they increase profitability making possible investments in new products and plants.
Vast numbers of Americans (myself included) see no reason to take a chance on there being enough jobs in future...

Best to eject the 11-12,000,000 invaders now, and de-incentivize the millions more who are considering crossing our borders...

Best to do it now, while there's a still a POTUS agreeable to such an approach, and a SCOTUS and other court appointees to firm it up.
What you don't seem to understand is the increase in the size of the workforce without immigrant labor is less than the number of jobs being created. So without immigrants we have a growing shortage of workers. If we don't have the workers, the jobs go out of the country and with it economic expansion.

This trend will continue throughout most of this century due to baby boomers leaving the workforce, earlier retirements and a falling birth rate. This trend also creates another serious problem. How are we going to finance the additional cost of Medicare and Social Security with an aging population without a lot more younger workers paying taxes?

As per the article I posted, automation will easily offset baby boomers retiring. Businesses will not move because the cost is so great. They would opt to offer more money to AMERICANS to attract workers to their place of business. In the long run it would be cheaper to pay higher wages to Americans than it would be to move and have to export their products back to the US.

The business world is not the same as it was before Trump. Businesses used to have to struggle with the combination of high taxation and employee costs. Now that their taxes are lower, it gives them more room to increase wages whereas before, the cost of both would make it more inviting to move out of the country.

The only thing that could F this all up is Democrats getting in charge of the federal government again--not just the House.
 
And that's Trump's fault or the Democrats?

Trump asked for 25 billion originally. HIs asking price now is 1/5 of that, and the Democrats are going to fight him tooth and nail for it. So now you blame less quality on Trump instead of them?

What is it with you on the left that never......ever want to assume responsibility for your actions? Now if the Democrats approved 25 billion and Trump didn't deliver, then you'd have a solid argument. But to say Trump failed us when it was actually the Democrats is an out and out lie.
Yes, it is Trump's fault. Don't you remember the Trump campaign rhetoric.

"I am the greatest deal maker this county has every seen."

“MY STYLE of deal-making is quite simple and straightforward. I aim very high, and then I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing to get what I’m after. And I always get what I want."

"When it comes to negotiations, democrats are a push over"

Well it seems the greatest deal maker that ever lived has met his match simply because he does not know how to deal with congress. In order to get any money for his wall he has to offer House democrats concessions on immigration and that's not going to be easy because almost anything he offers will cost far right votes.

House democrats shouldn't cave in. They have the votes and they have the public. Neither the wall nor Trump's government shutdown is popular. Cowing down to the school yard bully would cost them dearly.

So would the surrender of this country to foreigners. Trump has two choices: go with his instinct and give people what they elected him for, or give into polls Lord knows how badly manipulated.

If he chooses the latter, what we are looking at is the beginning of the end of the Great Experiment; the end our our country as we know it.
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.

Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
I didn't say Trump was going to halt all immigration. He said he might shutdown the border if he can't get his wall. If he shutdowns down the border, the Senate would join the House in a resolution to nullify his EO. That would probably also end the shutdown. Most Senate Republican are facing reelection in 2020 and they certain would not support a presidential action that caused serious problems for tens of million of Americans, not to mention the financial repercussions.
Trump would have to sign any such resolution, so what are the odds of that becoming law?
 
Yes, it is Trump's fault. Don't you remember the Trump campaign rhetoric.

"I am the greatest deal maker this county has every seen."

“MY STYLE of deal-making is quite simple and straightforward. I aim very high, and then I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing to get what I’m after. And I always get what I want."

"When it comes to negotiations, democrats are a push over"

Well it seems the greatest deal maker that ever lived has met his match simply because he does not know how to deal with congress. In order to get any money for his wall he has to offer House democrats concessions on immigration and that's not going to be easy because almost anything he offers will cost far right votes.

House democrats shouldn't cave in. They have the votes and they have the public. Neither the wall nor Trump's government shutdown is popular. Cowing down to the school yard bully would cost them dearly.

So would the surrender of this country to foreigners. Trump has two choices: go with his instinct and give people what they elected him for, or give into polls Lord knows how badly manipulated.

If he chooses the latter, what we are looking at is the beginning of the end of the Great Experiment; the end our our country as we know it.
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.

Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
I didn't say Trump was going to halt all immigration. He said he might shutdown the border if he can't get his wall. If he shutdowns down the border, the Senate would join the House in a resolution to nullify his EO. That would probably also end the shutdown. Most Senate Republican are facing reelection in 2020 and they certain would not support a presidential action that caused serious problems for tens of million of Americans, not to mention the financial repercussions.

View attachment 238332
Since congress created the law, congress can pass a resolution to override it. Congress can block any action of the president that is not specifically granted in the constitution.
 
So would the surrender of this country to foreigners. Trump has two choices: go with his instinct and give people what they elected him for, or give into polls Lord knows how badly manipulated.

If he chooses the latter, what we are looking at is the beginning of the end of the Great Experiment; the end our our country as we know it.
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.

Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
I didn't say Trump was going to halt all immigration. He said he might shutdown the border if he can't get his wall. If he shutdowns down the border, the Senate would join the House in a resolution to nullify his EO. That would probably also end the shutdown. Most Senate Republican are facing reelection in 2020 and they certain would not support a presidential action that caused serious problems for tens of million of Americans, not to mention the financial repercussions.

View attachment 238332
Since congress created the law, congress can pass a resolution to override it. Congress can block any action of the president that is not specifically granted in the constitution.
Congress can pass nothing into law without the President's signature. What part of that don't you get?
 
So would the surrender of this country to foreigners. Trump has two choices: go with his instinct and give people what they elected him for, or give into polls Lord knows how badly manipulated.

If he chooses the latter, what we are looking at is the beginning of the end of the Great Experiment; the end our our country as we know it.
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.

Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
I didn't say Trump was going to halt all immigration. He said he might shutdown the border if he can't get his wall. If he shutdowns down the border, the Senate would join the House in a resolution to nullify his EO. That would probably also end the shutdown. Most Senate Republican are facing reelection in 2020 and they certain would not support a presidential action that caused serious problems for tens of million of Americans, not to mention the financial repercussions.

View attachment 238332
Since congress created the law, congress can pass a resolution to override it. Congress can block any action of the president that is not specifically granted in the constitution.

No they cannot. The House and SENATE passed that law and only the House and Senate can rescind it with the Presidents signature. The House has no authority to block anything; only the Supreme Court can if somebody challenges it's constitutionally, and good luck with that one.

Until that time, the President has the sole authority to not only close the border, but to stop any foreigners from entering our country.
 
So would the surrender of this country to foreigners. Trump has two choices: go with his instinct and give people what they elected him for, or give into polls Lord knows how badly manipulated.

If he chooses the latter, what we are looking at is the beginning of the end of the Great Experiment; the end our our country as we know it.
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.

Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
I didn't say Trump was going to halt all immigration. He said he might shutdown the border if he can't get his wall. If he shutdowns down the border, the Senate would join the House in a resolution to nullify his EO. That would probably also end the shutdown. Most Senate Republican are facing reelection in 2020 and they certain would not support a presidential action that caused serious problems for tens of million of Americans, not to mention the financial repercussions.

View attachment 238332
Since congress created the law, congress can pass a resolution to override it. Congress can block any action of the president that is not specifically granted in the constitution.

Unless you're referring to overriding president's veto, can you point to Article where Congress has that power?
 
Trump voters may have voted for Trump because he promised to build a wall and reduce illegal immigration but they didn't elect him shutdown legal immigration.

Trump has threaten to close US borders if he doesn't get his wall. Hopefully he will do this. His people would certainly advise against this but as we know, Trump listens to no one.

Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
I didn't say Trump was going to halt all immigration. He said he might shutdown the border if he can't get his wall. If he shutdowns down the border, the Senate would join the House in a resolution to nullify his EO. That would probably also end the shutdown. Most Senate Republican are facing reelection in 2020 and they certain would not support a presidential action that caused serious problems for tens of million of Americans, not to mention the financial repercussions.

View attachment 238332
Since congress created the law, congress can pass a resolution to override it. Congress can block any action of the president that is not specifically granted in the constitution.
Congress can pass nothing into law without the President's signature. What part of that don't you get?
That's actually not true.

Take a civics class
 
Trump never said anything about halting all immigration although I think that would be great. His stance was to stop further illegal immigration from taking place slowing down the drug flow, the criminals, the murderers and possibly terrorists which Homeland Security already confirmed are crossing or trying to cross that border.

Correct, Trump relies on instinct and common sense than polls. He doesn't care about reelection either. He has better things to do in life than run this country and battle with the Democrats trying to destroy it. The one thing I can agree with you on is I hope he shuts down the border.
I didn't say Trump was going to halt all immigration. He said he might shutdown the border if he can't get his wall. If he shutdowns down the border, the Senate would join the House in a resolution to nullify his EO. That would probably also end the shutdown. Most Senate Republican are facing reelection in 2020 and they certain would not support a presidential action that caused serious problems for tens of million of Americans, not to mention the financial repercussions.

View attachment 238332
Since congress created the law, congress can pass a resolution to override it. Congress can block any action of the president that is not specifically granted in the constitution.
Congress can pass nothing into law without the President's signature. What part of that don't you get?
That's actually not true.

Take a civics class
They need a 2/3 vote to override his veto, and we all know they haven't got that.
 
The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus (November 2, 1883)
A bronze plaque with the words of the poem "The New Colossus" raised on it. The 1903 bronze plaque located in the Statue of Liberty's museum.

NPS
That was a fine sentiment in 1903...

The population of the US was then 76,000,000...

There was still plenty of land to be had...

There was a job for anyone who wanted one...

Today, however...

The population of the US is 330,000,000...

The land has all been parceled out...

We struggle to keep our own employed...

We struggle to provide educational and medical and social services for our own one-third of a billion souls...

Never mind 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens now present upon United States soil without our express prior consent...

Never mind the millions more invaders who will flood across our borders, should we be stupid enough to allow it...

That plaque represented a fine sentiment, in its time...

Unfortunately, it's time is over... those sentiments are no longer practical... best to hang-up a 'No Vacancy' sign.

Perhaps it's time to declare a two- or four-year moratorium on all immigration to the United States.
There is a 6 million job surplus now and that is likely to grow to 24 million in the next decade as the workforce shrinks do to baby boomers exiting the workforce and low birthrates. There is plenty of room for growth in America.

We should not open our borders nor should we seal them. We need more legal immigrants and we need workable immigration laws and policies.

Automation could kill 73 million U.S. jobs by 2030
Automation does kill jobs but it creates more jobs than it eliminates in most industries. A study by Deloitte found found 800,000 jobs were eliminated as the result of AI and other automation technologies. But get this: 3.5 million new jobs were created as well, and those jobs paid on average nearly $13,000 more per year than the ones that were lost.

A company might automate and eliminate thousands of factory floor workers but by doing so, they increase profitability making possible investments in new products and plants.
Vast numbers of Americans (myself included) see no reason to take a chance on there being enough jobs in future...

Best to eject the 11-12,000,000 invaders now, and de-incentivize the millions more who are considering crossing our borders...

Best to do it now, while there's a still a POTUS agreeable to such an approach, and a SCOTUS and other court appointees to firm it up.
Deporting 11-12 million people is simply not possible.''


One needs only to look at the Holocaust to understand that
 

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