Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Flopper]

Unless you're willing to wage a race war on behalf of the whites, you will never keep the foreigners out.

Who wants to wage a race war. Limit immigration to those who'll make our country stronger. Not those who'll suck on Government benefits or work for substandard wages.

Check out post #3056 then get back to us with a valid argument.

anchor babies collect federal benefits and give that money to their illegal immigrant parent.

The money is just enough for the child born in the United States.

No, they live on it. Been doing it for decades. When one turns 18 they have another or their female child has one and continues the cycle. They pack a lot of people inside of a single house to do it but they do it.

The only actually dollars an undocumented family would receive do to a child that is a citizen is TANF which is temporary emergency funds and is a very small amount for a child. Food stamps for a child are barely enough for a child and certainly would not be enough to feed a family.

The claim that undocumented immigrant families are abnormal large is not so. The average household size of an american family 2.6 persons. The average size of an undocumented immigrant family 3.2. Undocumented immigrant families tend to be much smaller than one would expect because a large percent are migrants and they go where the jobs are. However, it is true that there are often several families sharing one home.

 

[westwall]

A breach within the Trump cult membership.......(RINO name-calling anyone???....LOL)


U.S. Rep. Will Hurd, a Texas Republican, says President Trump's border wall proposal is "a third-century solution to a 21st-century problem."

"Taking action for action’s sake rarely leads to positive results," he said in a news release. "Our leaders have the solemn obligation to know the proper steps to take before acting upon them."

Hurd represents the state's 23rd Congressional District, which includes parts of San Antonio and extends all the way to the state's western border. The district, one of the largest in the nation, includes hundreds of miles of the U.S. border with Mexico.

"I agree with [U.S. Homeland Security] Secretary John Kelly’s comments during his confirmation hearing that a wall does not solve our security problems," Hurd said. "In fact, building a wall from sea to shining sea would be the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border."

Seems to work for the Speaker herself though. This is the wall around her Napa estate. Hmmm, I didn't realize she was so immoral. Of course the wall itself is more for decoration, but the armed guards that are the real defense are quite adept I am sure.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

When you apply to come in and follow the protocol, you are involved in a legal procedure. When you walk in a caravan, and are going in not matter what, you are illegal. There are people in the legal process of entry. Cut the line next time at the movies, a restaurant, or grocery store, and advise us of the outcome. If the legal process is followed, we don’t need to spend money on people to enforce the rules and laws on people who break them. Whatever anyone’s opinion, the president wants to protect the security of the country and keep law enforcement safe doing it. Americans tax dollars, should mean Americans first. A wall, barrier or whatever you want to call it, is just part of this. Cameras, drones, computer systems, access roads, vehicles, and personnel to make it work are the rest of the process. Want a fence between your neighbors house, you are done. This isn’t anything like that. And the money he’s asking to be approved isn’t out of line. All those against this, have supported it in the past. They want to show him up, at the cost of keeping our country safe. Hypocrisy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I, for one, have NEVER thought that putting America under surveillance 24 / 7 / 365 is a good idea. For FIFTEEN YEARS, those in favor of the wall have denied that the Democrats were for it first. Now, they are admitting it.

What a difference a day makes. Benjamin Franklin once said something to the effect that those who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserved neither Liberty NOR Safety.

That is the very argument the build the wall supporters are conveying on this thread. So, unless they can conjure up some legitimate reason to maintain their stance, they are arguing against Liberty and they are the REAL problem in America.

Agree to disagree. We are not putting America on surveillance, just the borders. Obviously an issue of national security currently. No one is saying put cameras on your home or mine. But, go anywhere in our country and you have been recorded for posterity. This does actually solve a lot of crime throughout the country. If you think we have a lot of surveillance here, England for example is that much more. This is a done deal, and not going anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No need for the government to place microphones and cameras in people homes, too many are doing it themselves. All these digital assistance and wireless security systems opens up every one that uses them to in home surveillance.

.

They have a choice right now.

No shit, captain obvious.

.

And yet those you associate with would take away that right.

 

[dblack]

It's just getting old hearing each party justify shitty policies "because the other side". It's just like arguing with liberals about ACA. When they are forced to admit that ACA was a sellout to the insurance industry, they blame it on the Republicans - even though exactly no Republicans voted for it.

Likewise, when your wall horseshit is shown to be nothing more than protectionist trade policy lathered up in fear mongering, you blame it on the left, or point out all the horrible things the left has done as if to justify the horrible things you want to do.

If we don't do something to bust up the stranglehold of the two-party system, your partisan pissing match is going to flush the whole country down the toilet.

Do you deny that this is mostly on partisan lines? If you can tell me that people in both parties feel differently, then show me that evidence. But thus far, I've yet to see a lefty in support of Trump or border security for that matter. Everybody on the left doesn't want the wall. Everybody on the right does. After all, the wall issue is what won Trump the presidency.

dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.

Both moderates.

Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!

That's why the build the wall guys only talk that skeet on the Internet. They don't have the balls to talk like that in public.

I was just kidding around. But seriously, I don't think I've ever been referred to as a moderate before.

 

[OKTexas]

Keep illegals from coming in without proper permission. We don’t need the rest. That’s better use of money. Less crime, less money spent to support non tax payers. And libs piss away more money for foreign aid, than is spent on legitimate tax paying citizens. The libs are just trying to block Don from keeping campaigning promises that will benefit our citizens and economy. They will give everything away for free, and raise taxes to pay for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Facts to substantiate this?

You are calling people "illegals" before they come here. So, you reject the notion of innocent until proven guilty?

When you apply to come in and follow the protocol, you are involved in a legal procedure. When you walk in a caravan, and are going in not matter what, you are illegal. There are people in the legal process of entry. Cut the line next time at the movies, a restaurant, or grocery store, and advise us of the outcome. If the legal process is followed, we don’t need to spend money on people to enforce the rules and laws on people who break them. Whatever anyone’s opinion, the president wants to protect the security of the country and keep law enforcement safe doing it. Americans tax dollars, should mean Americans first. A wall, barrier or whatever you want to call it, is just part of this. Cameras, drones, computer systems, access roads, vehicles, and personnel to make it work are the rest of the process. Want a fence between your neighbors house, you are done. This isn’t anything like that. And the money he’s asking to be approved isn’t out of line. All those against this, have supported it in the past. They want to show him up, at the cost of keeping our country safe. Hypocrisy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I, for one, have NEVER thought that putting America under surveillance 24 / 7 / 365 is a good idea. For FIFTEEN YEARS, those in favor of the wall have denied that the Democrats were for it first. Now, they are admitting it.

What a difference a day makes. Benjamin Franklin once said something to the effect that those who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserved neither Liberty NOR Safety.

That is the very argument the build the wall supporters are conveying on this thread. So, unless they can conjure up some legitimate reason to maintain their stance, they are arguing against Liberty and they are the REAL problem in America.

What a crock of shit, no one is trying to deny Americans their liberty. They are trying to secure our country to prevent the loss of lives, liberty and property.

.

ROTF, LMAO, ROTF. LMAO.

Your entire campaign is a direct assault on Liberty. Most of those on your side won't even answer the question of where we got our unalienable Rights from. If they cannot answer that, they sure as Hell don't know what Liberty is. Are you nucking futs or what!

Bull hockey, securing our borders doesn't effect the liberty of our citizens. Not securing it, on the other hand, is getting tens of thousands killed, the absolute denial of liberty. They've already seized enough fentanyl to kill everyone in this country. Accidental exposure to as little as 3 grains can kill a 250 pound man. Carfentanyl is even worse and they're finding more and more of it.

.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Do you deny that this is mostly on partisan lines? If you can tell me that people in both parties feel differently, then show me that evidence. But thus far, I've yet to see a lefty in support of Trump or border security for that matter. Everybody on the left doesn't want the wall. Everybody on the right does. After all, the wall issue is what won Trump the presidency.

dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.

Both moderates.

Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!

That's why the build the wall guys only talk that skeet on the Internet. They don't have the balls to talk like that in public.

I was just kidding around. But seriously, I don't think I've ever been referred to as a moderate before.

I find it hilarious that those referring to people like you and I as moderates and leftists are primarily using socialist arguments - as Ray does to support their position.

But, rest assured, many of them KNOW what they're doing. They support socialism and are at peace with it, but since they cannot defend their position they rely on the standard canard of socialist philosophy while calling others names.

It's sad that all they have are meaningless platitudes and the talking points of socialists; they live in FEAR of having to participate in a real discussion and know, deep down, their position has flaws they don't want to address. So, instead of admitting the flaws, they make baseless accusations and allegations they would never say in person.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Facts to substantiate this?

You are calling people "illegals" before they come here. So, you reject the notion of innocent until proven guilty?

When you apply to come in and follow the protocol, you are involved in a legal procedure. When you walk in a caravan, and are going in not matter what, you are illegal. There are people in the legal process of entry. Cut the line next time at the movies, a restaurant, or grocery store, and advise us of the outcome. If the legal process is followed, we don’t need to spend money on people to enforce the rules and laws on people who break them. Whatever anyone’s opinion, the president wants to protect the security of the country and keep law enforcement safe doing it. Americans tax dollars, should mean Americans first. A wall, barrier or whatever you want to call it, is just part of this. Cameras, drones, computer systems, access roads, vehicles, and personnel to make it work are the rest of the process. Want a fence between your neighbors house, you are done. This isn’t anything like that. And the money he’s asking to be approved isn’t out of line. All those against this, have supported it in the past. They want to show him up, at the cost of keeping our country safe. Hypocrisy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I, for one, have NEVER thought that putting America under surveillance 24 / 7 / 365 is a good idea. For FIFTEEN YEARS, those in favor of the wall have denied that the Democrats were for it first. Now, they are admitting it.

What a difference a day makes. Benjamin Franklin once said something to the effect that those who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserved neither Liberty NOR Safety.

That is the very argument the build the wall supporters are conveying on this thread. So, unless they can conjure up some legitimate reason to maintain their stance, they are arguing against Liberty and they are the REAL problem in America.

What a crock of shit, no one is trying to deny Americans their liberty. They are trying to secure our country to prevent the loss of lives, liberty and property.

.

ROTF, LMAO, ROTF. LMAO.

Your entire campaign is a direct assault on Liberty. Most of those on your side won't even answer the question of where we got our unalienable Rights from. If they cannot answer that, they sure as Hell don't know what Liberty is. Are you nucking futs or what!

Bull hockey, securing our borders doesn't effect the liberty of our citizens. Not securing it, on the other hand, is getting tens of thousands killed, the absolute denial of liberty. They've already seized enough fentanyl to kill everyone in this country. Accidental exposure to as little as 3 grains can kill a 250 pound man. Carfentanyl is even worse and they're finding more and more of it.

.

Where do you get your unalienable Rights from?

And, again, one of those silly ass arguments that if you don't support a wall, you're against border security. You'd rather die and rot in Hell rather than to have an honest discussion about this, wouldn't you?

Your religion is the wall. Maybe, someday, the good Lord will give you four of them and keep society protected from people like you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nobody can take your job unless you owned it to begin with. So YOU are making a leftist argument.

I didn't say my job in particular, I'm talking about American jobs. Jobs created in this country belong to the people that live in this country. We may be a global economy, but we are not a global country. If an employer wants to hire foreigners, let that employer move to where the foreigners are. Many have done so already.

You have not proven that the current situation keeps wages lower. In FACT, wages are at an all time high and there are plenty of jobs.

For the time being, but that's not always the case, is it? This economy will die down at some point, and then we will be stuck with a bunch of foreigners here who will compete against Americans (who belong here) and then those Americans will end up on some social program. So indirectly, foreigners will be putting Americans on social programs. We simply don't need that. We have enough working capable people on those programs as it is.

The path you've chosen has guaranteed an end to our culture, our foundational principles (which you CLEARLY do not understand) and, consequently, an end to the white race.

No, we on the right are trying to preserve that. You are trying to turn our country into a third world nation. And if it's inevitable, then you are accelerating it tenfold.

There are two important questions that those who advocate for a border wall have never asked me. It would blow their entire case apart IF they had the ability to read the response. You're so wrapped up in parroting the border wall talking points, you will never think to ask questions.

The fact that you won't answer my questions proves, unequivocally, you realize that you're not in a good enough position to believe in the B.S. you promote here every day. You think they are trick questions.

What questions are that?

Where do you get your Rights from? Don't give me a laundry list, but tell me why you REALLY want a wall.

Don't give you a list but I should tell you why I want a wall?

Ray, I'm going to explain this to you one more time. This is not opinion; not left v. right. It's the way it is.

When you advocate that jobs belong to the Americans, you just made a left wing / SOCIALIST argument.

Socialism - noun "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

what is socialism definition - Bing

We're DONE with that. YOU are the socialist because that is what you are advocating. Period.

I agree that we have to look into the future regarding jobs and that is the greatest weakness of what you're proposing. You are not looking five or ten years down the road.

My questions are simple: Where do you get your unalienable Rights from and give me the REAL reason you want a wall around America.

We've already been through that and I gave you several reason. You are asking me to repeat myself which I'm not going to waste time on.

Inalienable rights are something you are born with. Those are rights that cannot be taken away from you or given to you. You have a right to believe in any religion you like even if you're in a country that doesn't allow you to practice it. You have a right to decide on which food you eat unless in a situation where there are few if any choices. You have the right to love somebody or something.

Happy?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.

Both moderates.

Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!

That's why the build the wall guys only talk that skeet on the Internet. They don't have the balls to talk like that in public.

I was just kidding around. But seriously, I don't think I've ever been referred to as a moderate before.

I find it hilarious that those referring to people like you and I as moderates and leftists are primarily using socialist arguments - as Ray does to support their position.

But, rest assured, many of them KNOW what they're doing. They support socialism and are at peace with it, but since they cannot defend their position they rely on the standard canard of socialist philosophy while calling others names.

It's sad that all they have are meaningless platitudes and the talking points of socialists; they live in FEAR of having to participate in a real discussion and know, deep down, their position has flaws they don't want to address. So, instead of admitting the flaws, they make baseless accusations and allegations they would never say in person.

Obviously you don't know what Socialism is. Keeping people out of the country is not socialism, it's protection of the citizens.

 

[OKTexas]

They're not forbidden for their anchor babies and yes the government reimburses hospitals about 4 billion a year to treat illegal aliens. And what do you think it costs the country for jails, prisons, schooling, property damage in auto accidents, courts (State, local and federal). Then you have property theft, identity theft, murder, kidnapping, assault, rape and various other crimes, none are free to their victims. And the lists go on and on, 100 billion a year is a conservative estimate.

Oh I forgot border and interior law enforcement to round those suckers up, then it costs almost 12,000 each to deport them.

.

The first time I ever heard the allegation that the children of undocumented parents "cost" taxpayers, I went to the hospital and spoke to a woman quoted in the article used to prove the allegation.

The lady I spoke to was Paula Martin. Remember, I spoke to her in person, face to face. When presented with the article, she told me that the taxpayers do NOT reimburse the hospital for any INDIGENT patient. When those who hate the foreigners revised the story, they lied again. Instead of admitting this, the next time the right commented on it, they said:

"The Gwinnett (GA.) Hospital System expects more illegal immigrants will present themselves for urgent care this year and has established a $34 million reserve to cover its outlay."

The Social Contract - Illegal Aliens - The Health Cost Dimension

The $34 million dollar set aside is for INDIGENT patients, not undocumented foreigners. Do undocumented foreigners represent some of those? Yes, they do. But, there are people like the homeless and the downright lazy who avail themselves of this set aside. I have a worthless POS relative (by marriage) that is on the hook to that hospital for $54,000 right now.

So, how do the hospitals generate this $34 million dollars?

Most of the money is generated from uninsured people who pay for their services. And the bad part for those who don't like the undocumented, they pay into that amount as well. They do so because if they pay their income taxes via an Individual Tax Identification Number and keep their bills paid up, they are the first to be considered when amnesties roll around.

Additionally, the undocumented use the hospital for their primary care. And, as long as they pay on their bill, they can continue to use the hospital for routine services.

So, I know, for a fact, you're peddling a lie here. Why do you REALLY not want undocumented foreigners to come here?

Medicaid Helps Hospitals Pay For Illegal Immigrants’ Care

.

"The lion’s share goes to reimburse hospitals for delivering babies for women who show up in their emergency rooms, according to interviews with hospital officials and studies."

That is a direct quote from your article. Your point?

That's medical care for illegals.

.

The medical care is provided to the biological host of a baby. So, level with me here, would you support abortion for those people instead?

No I would support shipping her ass out of the country before she drops a kid. And refusing entry to any pregnant woman.

.

.

 

[OKTexas]

I, for one, have NEVER thought that putting America under surveillance 24 / 7 / 365 is a good idea. For FIFTEEN YEARS, those in favor of the wall have denied that the Democrats were for it first. Now, they are admitting it.

What a difference a day makes. Benjamin Franklin once said something to the effect that those who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserved neither Liberty NOR Safety.

That is the very argument the build the wall supporters are conveying on this thread. So, unless they can conjure up some legitimate reason to maintain their stance, they are arguing against Liberty and they are the REAL problem in America.

Agree to disagree. We are not putting America on surveillance, just the borders. Obviously an issue of national security currently. No one is saying put cameras on your home or mine. But, go anywhere in our country and you have been recorded for posterity. This does actually solve a lot of crime throughout the country. If you think we have a lot of surveillance here, England for example is that much more. This is a done deal, and not going anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No need for the government to place microphones and cameras in people homes, too many are doing it themselves. All these digital assistance and wireless security systems opens up every one that uses them to in home surveillance.

.

They have a choice right now.

No shit, captain obvious.

.

And yet those you associate with would take away that right.

Me thinks you need to elaborate on that one.

.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How can I? It's a left vs right issue.

It's just getting old hearing each party justify shitty policies "because the other side". It's just like arguing with liberals about ACA. When they are forced to admit that ACA was a sellout to the insurance industry, they blame it on the Republicans - even though exactly no Republicans voted for it.

Likewise, when your wall horseshit is shown to be nothing more than protectionist trade policy lathered up in fear mongering, you blame it on the left, or point out all the horrible things the left has done as if to justify the horrible things you want to do.

If we don't do something to bust up the stranglehold of the two-party system, your partisan pissing match is going to flush the whole country down the toilet.

Do you deny that this is mostly on partisan lines? If you can tell me that people in both parties feel differently, then show me that evidence. But thus far, I've yet to see a lefty in support of Trump or border security for that matter. Everybody on the left doesn't want the wall. Everybody on the right does. After all, the wall issue is what won Trump the presidency.

dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.

Both moderates.

Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!

If you claim to be on the right and take leftist positions, yes, you are a moderate. It's why Michael Medved lost his show on Salem Communications this week. He was a moderate and the company didn't like his views.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Walls work. China built a wall thousands of years ago and they still have no Mexicans.

No, no Mexicans but they didn't post enough No Mongul signs and the Monguls just went around it.

 

[nat4900]

It’s funny how President Trump has brilliantly painted Dems into this corner.

GREAT analogy......lol

 

[dblack]

If you claim to be on the right and take leftist positions, yes, you are a moderate.

I guess I'm in the clear then.

 

[nat4900]

That’s why we have 20 million living here illegally? Because our borders are sew secure?

Here you fucking ignorant turd

Visa Overstays Outnumber Illegal Border Crossings...

 

[bripat9643]

That’s why we have 20 million living here illegally? Because our borders are sew secure?

Here you fucking ignorant turd

Visa Overstays Outnumber Illegal Border Crossings...

Center for Migration Studies - an open borders propaganda organ.

 

[HappyJoy]

A breach within the Trump cult membership.......(RINO name-calling anyone???....LOL)


U.S. Rep. Will Hurd, a Texas Republican, says President Trump's border wall proposal is "a third-century solution to a 21st-century problem."

"Taking action for action’s sake rarely leads to positive results," he said in a news release. "Our leaders have the solemn obligation to know the proper steps to take before acting upon them."

Hurd represents the state's 23rd Congressional District, which includes parts of San Antonio and extends all the way to the state's western border. The district, one of the largest in the nation, includes hundreds of miles of the U.S. border with Mexico.

"I agree with [U.S. Homeland Security] Secretary John Kelly’s comments during his confirmation hearing that a wall does not solve our security problems," Hurd said. "In fact, building a wall from sea to shining sea would be the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border."

Seems to work for the Speaker herself though. This is the wall around her Napa estate. Hmmm, I didn't realize she was so immoral. Of course the wall itself is more for decoration, but the armed guards that are the real defense are quite adept I am sure.

You want a 3 ft wall?

 

[dblack]

Walls work. China built a wall thousands of years ago and they still have no Mexicans.

For Trumpsters, this is referred to as "reasoning".

 

[bripat9643]

Walls work. China built a wall thousands of years ago and they still have no Mexicans.

For Trumpsters, this is referred to as "reasoning".