Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Thinker101]

Si if these assholes have all the answers why isn’t the bordersecure? Do ya think?

Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.

Yet our border leaks like a sieve...go figure.

 

[bripat9643]

A breach within the Trump cult membership.......(RINO name-calling anyone???....LOL)


U.S. Rep. Will Hurd, a Texas Republican, says President Trump's border wall proposal is "a third-century solution to a 21st-century problem."

"Taking action for action’s sake rarely leads to positive results," he said in a news release. "Our leaders have the solemn obligation to know the proper steps to take before acting upon them."

Hurd represents the state's 23rd Congressional District, which includes parts of San Antonio and extends all the way to the state's western border. The district, one of the largest in the nation, includes hundreds of miles of the U.S. border with Mexico.

"I agree with [U.S. Homeland Security] Secretary John Kelly’s comments during his confirmation hearing that a wall does not solve our security problems," Hurd said. "In fact, building a wall from sea to shining sea would be the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border."

Wheels are a 5000 year old solution to a 21st Century problem.

This argument is stupid and has been shot down 10,000 times.

 

[bripat9643]

Si if these assholes have all the answers why isn’t the bordersecure? Do ya think?

Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.

What "fascist tactics?" You mean a wall?
Austria also has a more secure border because it has a wall/fence.

 

[dblack]

Can you stop whining about the left long enough to make a sane argument? No, you can't.

How can I? It's a left vs right issue.

It's just getting old hearing each party justify shitty policies "because the other side". It's just like arguing with liberals about ACA. When they are forced to admit that ACA was a sellout to the insurance industry, they blame it on the Republicans - even though exactly no Republicans voted for it.

Likewise, when your wall horseshit is shown to be nothing more than protectionist trade policy lathered up in fear mongering, you blame it on the left, or point out all the horrible things the left has done as if to justify the horrible things you want to do.

If we don't do something to bust up the stranglehold of the two-party system, your partisan pissing match is going to flush the whole country down the toilet.

Do you deny that this is mostly on partisan lines? If you can tell me that people in both parties feel differently, then show me that evidence. But thus far, I've yet to see a lefty in support of Trump or border security for that matter. Everybody on the left doesn't want the wall. Everybody on the right does. After all, the wall issue is what won Trump the presidency.

dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.

Both moderates.

Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!

 

[OKTexas]

I am struggling to understand your argument.

We elect representatives to carry out our will. When California opts to have Sanctuary Cities, I feel the people of California have spoken, don't you?

If the state of California cannot afford the people they bring in, then it becomes our business if the state of California is relying on federal funds to wine and dine their foreign guests. Then I'd have a dog in the fight. BTW, some of the things you presume may be the law where you live, but certainly not in every jurisdiction.

One of the most effective ploys by those attempting to vilify undocumented immigrants is to assert that those immigrants are stealing benefits from Americans. Donald Trump has deployed this falsehood over and over and has even promised a law to stop. The fact is there's already is law. In was passed in 1996.

Federal dollars for the following social services are expressed forbidden by federal law:

• Children’s Health Insurance (CHIP)
  
  
• Disability, aka Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
  
  
• Food stamps, aka The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
  
  
• Health insurance, aka insurance via the Affordable Care Act (ACA)
  
  
• Medicaid
  
  
• Medicare
  
  
• Social Security
  
  
• Welfare

Not only are undocumented immigrants barred from these benefits, legal immigrants are also barred for 7 years.

Depending on the state federal dollars can be used for the following under certain circumstances:

• Emergency medical care, including ER visits and Emergency Medicaid
  
  
• Schooling
  
  
• Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)

In spite of the facts, there are a constant stream of claims of billion and hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on illegal immigrants. States can of course fund programs that benefit undocumented immigrants but they can't use federal dollars.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren't Stealing Your Benefits | HuffPost

They're not forbidden for their anchor babies and yes the government reimburses hospitals about 4 billion a year to treat illegal aliens. And what do you think it costs the country for jails, prisons, schooling, property damage in auto accidents, courts (State, local and federal). Then you have property theft, identity theft, murder, kidnapping, assault, rape and various other crimes, none are free to their victims. And the lists go on and on, 100 billion a year is a conservative estimate.

Oh I forgot border and interior law enforcement to round those suckers up, then it costs almost 12,000 each to deport them.

.

The first time I ever heard the allegation that the children of undocumented parents "cost" taxpayers, I went to the hospital and spoke to a woman quoted in the article used to prove the allegation.

The lady I spoke to was Paula Martin. Remember, I spoke to her in person, face to face. When presented with the article, she told me that the taxpayers do NOT reimburse the hospital for any INDIGENT patient. When those who hate the foreigners revised the story, they lied again. Instead of admitting this, the next time the right commented on it, they said:

"The Gwinnett (GA.) Hospital System expects more illegal immigrants will present themselves for urgent care this year and has established a $34 million reserve to cover its outlay."

The Social Contract - Illegal Aliens - The Health Cost Dimension

The $34 million dollar set aside is for INDIGENT patients, not undocumented foreigners. Do undocumented foreigners represent some of those? Yes, they do. But, there are people like the homeless and the downright lazy who avail themselves of this set aside. I have a worthless POS relative (by marriage) that is on the hook to that hospital for $54,000 right now.

So, how do the hospitals generate this $34 million dollars?

Most of the money is generated from uninsured people who pay for their services. And the bad part for those who don't like the undocumented, they pay into that amount as well. They do so because if they pay their income taxes via an Individual Tax Identification Number and keep their bills paid up, they are the first to be considered when amnesties roll around.

Additionally, the undocumented use the hospital for their primary care. And, as long as they pay on their bill, they can continue to use the hospital for routine services.

So, I know, for a fact, you're peddling a lie here. Why do you REALLY not want undocumented foreigners to come here?

Medicaid Helps Hospitals Pay For Illegal Immigrants’ Care

.

"The lion’s share goes to reimburse hospitals for delivering babies for women who show up in their emergency rooms, according to interviews with hospital officials and studies."

That is a direct quote from your article. Your point?

That's medical care for illegals.

.

 

[theHawk]

A breach within the Trump cult membership.......(RINO name-calling anyone???....LOL)


U.S. Rep. Will Hurd, a Texas Republican, says President Trump's border wall proposal is "a third-century solution to a 21st-century problem."

"Taking action for action’s sake rarely leads to positive results," he said in a news release. "Our leaders have the solemn obligation to know the proper steps to take before acting upon them."

Hurd represents the state's 23rd Congressional District, which includes parts of San Antonio and extends all the way to the state's western border. The district, one of the largest in the nation, includes hundreds of miles of the U.S. border with Mexico.

"I agree with [U.S. Homeland Security] Secretary John Kelly’s comments during his confirmation hearing that a wall does not solve our security problems," Hurd said. "In fact, building a wall from sea to shining sea would be the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border."

Wheels are a 5000 year old solution to a 21st Century problem.

This argument is stupid and has been shot down 10,000 times.

Invaders aren’t a 21st century problem, it’s a 5000+ BC problem and walls have worked great.

It’s funny how President Trump has brilliantly painted Dems into this corner. The Dems are so ass backwards on so many issues now. They literally argue that “walls don’t work” along with “males can be women”. It’s totally delusional and they look to normal Americans like they belong in an insane asylum.

 

[WillowTree]

Si if these assholes have all the answers why isn’t the bordersecure? Do ya think?

Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.

That’s why we have 20 million living here illegally? Because our borders are sew secure?

 

[Slyhunter]

Are foreigners chasing Americans down and forcing them to take drugs OR do Americans of their own free will and volition take the drugs?

You can't use something that isn't there. Given the fact most of our heroin comes across the southern border, it's only common sense to focus on that border to help stop the drugs. However a wall is not just for drugs. A wall is not just for illegals. A wall is there to help retard the activity of both.

Blaming the user who got hooked on drugs (because they are available) is like blaming the woman who got raped because she looked too good the way she dressed.

You say foreigners are taking "our jobs." How is that? Do you own a job that is in the private sector that a foreigner stole from you?

Our highways are polluted with foreign drivers. They are terrible at their job and can't even read the English signs on the road. In the meantime, as long as employers can hire these people for next to nothing, it brings down wages for American drivers which means less will look into that field of work.

Are you saying that the jobs created in the private sector belong to the public, and if so, is that not a socialist argument? Do we not own that which we create?

Jobs created in America are for the American people--not the entire world. Just like jobs created in Italy are for Italian people, or jobs created in Indonesia are for Indonesians.

Finally, if foreigners are sending money back across the southern border, how much of it comes back as foreigners buy goods and services from Americans? I'm sure you must have some facts to figure out a Cost / Benefits Analysis on this.

You don't know where they are buying their goods from once that money makes it to the other side of the border.

As for jobs, wages are rising, new jobs are opening every day and if you want to work, you need to apply for the jobs. Even in YOUR profession there is a pressing need for more people in your industry. That situation took place without a wall. Were you aware of that?

I'm very aware of that. However supply and demand comes into play. If there is more demand than supply, the price goes up. If there is more supply than demand, the price goes down. If you satisfy the demand, the price remains steady.

Wages are going up because (at least for now) we have more demand than supply. Left up to people like you, the supply would be satisfied and Americans would not see wage increases. Then, when it turns around and we have more supply than demand because we let all these people here, wages decrease for Americans and all others.

Most heroin that comes over the southern border is hidden in vehicles comming through ports of entry. Smaller amounts are carried in on foot some walking through ports of entry and some crossing over walls and fences. Cartels send the shipments across the border as oppose to using planes and boats because it's easy and and cheap. If we close off the border they will bring it in using other routes. The profits are so huge, there is no way you can seriously reduce the flow by stopping it in route. Just one cargo container will hold enough uncut heroin to supply US demand for a year.

And Yes, the user is responsible for his habit. Most heroin users get hooked not because drug dealers force their product on them. They search out dealers looking a higher high or a replacement for other drugs.

You only know about the ones getting caught. You have no idea how those who are getting away with it are doing it. They don't publicize their efforts.

 

[OKTexas]

I've said enough to prove you're nothing but a long winded troll and only took 3 short posts.

.

As usual, you like to play mind games, prove nothing and make accusations that sound more like projection. I don't speak cryptic and if you see a troll, it's the one you see in your mirror.

Do you have anything relevant to say about this subject OR are you just trying to prove that nobody can out - troll you?

Maybe you should have an adult explain my responses to your ridiculous rants. A constitutional amendment to give congress the power over immigration, indeed. ROFLMFAO

.

That criticism was a blatant lie. Do you have ANY capacity for the truth?

Really?

What Amendment changed that?

.

You delight in spewing swill and not being able to back it up. You should laugh at yourself for pretending you're smarter than all the other posters on this board.

I didn't ask that dumb ass question regarding congress right to control immigration, YOU DID.

.

 

[OKTexas]

Facts to substantiate this?

You are calling people "illegals" before they come here. So, you reject the notion of innocent until proven guilty?

When you apply to come in and follow the protocol, you are involved in a legal procedure. When you walk in a caravan, and are going in not matter what, you are illegal. There are people in the legal process of entry. Cut the line next time at the movies, a restaurant, or grocery store, and advise us of the outcome. If the legal process is followed, we don’t need to spend money on people to enforce the rules and laws on people who break them. Whatever anyone’s opinion, the president wants to protect the security of the country and keep law enforcement safe doing it. Americans tax dollars, should mean Americans first. A wall, barrier or whatever you want to call it, is just part of this. Cameras, drones, computer systems, access roads, vehicles, and personnel to make it work are the rest of the process. Want a fence between your neighbors house, you are done. This isn’t anything like that. And the money he’s asking to be approved isn’t out of line. All those against this, have supported it in the past. They want to show him up, at the cost of keeping our country safe. Hypocrisy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I, for one, have NEVER thought that putting America under surveillance 24 / 7 / 365 is a good idea. For FIFTEEN YEARS, those in favor of the wall have denied that the Democrats were for it first. Now, they are admitting it.

What a difference a day makes. Benjamin Franklin once said something to the effect that those who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserved neither Liberty NOR Safety.

That is the very argument the build the wall supporters are conveying on this thread. So, unless they can conjure up some legitimate reason to maintain their stance, they are arguing against Liberty and they are the REAL problem in America.

Agree to disagree. We are not putting America on surveillance, just the borders. Obviously an issue of national security currently. No one is saying put cameras on your home or mine. But, go anywhere in our country and you have been recorded for posterity. This does actually solve a lot of crime throughout the country. If you think we have a lot of surveillance here, England for example is that much more. This is a done deal, and not going anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No need for the government to place microphones and cameras in people homes, too many are doing it themselves. All these digital assistance and wireless security systems opens up every one that uses them to in home surveillance.

.

Never mentioned someone’s home, or said I agreed with that. I would never have those stupid devices in my house. Just talking about the border, and stating that they exist more than we are aware.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually you did bring up someone's home, that's why I commented on it.

No one is saying put cameras on your home or mine.

.

 

[OKTexas]

Facts to substantiate this?

You are calling people "illegals" before they come here. So, you reject the notion of innocent until proven guilty?

When you apply to come in and follow the protocol, you are involved in a legal procedure. When you walk in a caravan, and are going in not matter what, you are illegal. There are people in the legal process of entry. Cut the line next time at the movies, a restaurant, or grocery store, and advise us of the outcome. If the legal process is followed, we don’t need to spend money on people to enforce the rules and laws on people who break them. Whatever anyone’s opinion, the president wants to protect the security of the country and keep law enforcement safe doing it. Americans tax dollars, should mean Americans first. A wall, barrier or whatever you want to call it, is just part of this. Cameras, drones, computer systems, access roads, vehicles, and personnel to make it work are the rest of the process. Want a fence between your neighbors house, you are done. This isn’t anything like that. And the money he’s asking to be approved isn’t out of line. All those against this, have supported it in the past. They want to show him up, at the cost of keeping our country safe. Hypocrisy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I, for one, have NEVER thought that putting America under surveillance 24 / 7 / 365 is a good idea. For FIFTEEN YEARS, those in favor of the wall have denied that the Democrats were for it first. Now, they are admitting it.

What a difference a day makes. Benjamin Franklin once said something to the effect that those who would give up essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety deserved neither Liberty NOR Safety.

That is the very argument the build the wall supporters are conveying on this thread. So, unless they can conjure up some legitimate reason to maintain their stance, they are arguing against Liberty and they are the REAL problem in America.

Agree to disagree. We are not putting America on surveillance, just the borders. Obviously an issue of national security currently. No one is saying put cameras on your home or mine. But, go anywhere in our country and you have been recorded for posterity. This does actually solve a lot of crime throughout the country. If you think we have a lot of surveillance here, England for example is that much more. This is a done deal, and not going anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No need for the government to place microphones and cameras in people homes, too many are doing it themselves. All these digital assistance and wireless security systems opens up every one that uses them to in home surveillance.

.

They have a choice right now.

No shit, captain obvious.

.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Can you stop whining about the left long enough to make a sane argument? No, you can't.

How can I? It's a left vs right issue.

It's just getting old hearing each party justify shitty policies "because the other side". It's just like arguing with liberals about ACA. When they are forced to admit that ACA was a sellout to the insurance industry, they blame it on the Republicans - even though exactly no Republicans voted for it.

Likewise, when your wall horseshit is shown to be nothing more than protectionist trade policy lathered up in fear mongering, you blame it on the left, or point out all the horrible things the left has done as if to justify the horrible things you want to do.

If we don't do something to bust up the stranglehold of the two-party system, your partisan pissing match is going to flush the whole country down the toilet.

Do you deny that this is mostly on partisan lines? If you can tell me that people in both parties feel differently, then show me that evidence. But thus far, I've yet to see a lefty in support of Trump or border security for that matter. Everybody on the left doesn't want the wall. Everybody on the right does. After all, the wall issue is what won Trump the presidency.

dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.

Both moderates.

You are once again intellectually dishonest or ignorant.

 

[Flopper]

The subtext of the wall issue is the legal walls we've already put up to limit legal immigration. They are the problem. And, as is usually the case with bad law, such limits require a police state, complete with walled borders and spot id checks, to implement.

Before the 2006 border fence act, migrants climbed over existing fencing. After the 2006 fence act they either used a 12 foot ladder to go over the fence, walked around the fence or paid a trucker a 100 bucks to hide in the back of the truck. The only difference with the Trump wall is migrant will need a 20 foot ladder and the trucker will charge $150.

Those who don't have $150 will be kept out.

Let me see if you can be the first on this thread:

How come you want people from south of the border to be kept out?

Because they'll take jobs for substandard wages, construction, UBER, Taxi, etc and make it hard for Americans to get a living wage. And because they bear anchor babies, collect welfare and will bankrupt our government or force us to get rid of welfare so even Americans who need it don't get it.

The primary reason undocumented immigrants accept substandard wages is because they are undocumented. Document them and the problem goes away.

Undocumented immigrants are not eligible for most federal social programs, Social Security, disability, food stamps, unemployment, Medicaid, Medicare, ACA healthcare subsidies, and welfare.

They are eligible for federal education dollars, emergency Medicaid medical care, and supplemental food assistance for pregnant mothers and infants. Emergency Medicaid is less than 1% of the Medicaid budget and supplemental food assistant for pregnant mothers and infants is less than 3% of the SNAP budget. Federal education dollars spent on undocumented immigrant children is an unknown factor because schools don't report immigration status of children. However, the number of undocumented immigrants in public school make up less than 3% of enrollment.

 

[22lcidw]

A breach within the Trump cult membership.......(RINO name-calling anyone???....LOL)


U.S. Rep. Will Hurd, a Texas Republican, says President Trump's border wall proposal is "a third-century solution to a 21st-century problem."

"Taking action for action’s sake rarely leads to positive results," he said in a news release. "Our leaders have the solemn obligation to know the proper steps to take before acting upon them."

Hurd represents the state's 23rd Congressional District, which includes parts of San Antonio and extends all the way to the state's western border. The district, one of the largest in the nation, includes hundreds of miles of the U.S. border with Mexico.

"I agree with [U.S. Homeland Security] Secretary John Kelly’s comments during his confirmation hearing that a wall does not solve our security problems," Hurd said. "In fact, building a wall from sea to shining sea would be the most expensive and least effective way to secure the border."

Wars work well also. Lots of pain and suffering but a solution to a problem. I am not a keyboard warrior. The western hemisphere has had peace for to long. Mother nature tends to get involved when stupidity rules the minds of men. Most of the people in our nation would chitt their pants if their checks stop being sent and medical is reduced to rationing. Many abuse others because they are empowered are in fiefdoms of the same. Watching law enforcement not going to the BLM riots to help their brothers was incredible. I am talking the inept, incompetent, sadistic, power hungry variety. Not the good ones. Fiefdoms are all over. In different ways and we all can be in more than one. Anyway the swamp is a fiefdom. And anyone whose child has been affected by drugs as an example can tell people like you to go to hell.

 

[whitehall]

"A 21st century problem"?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Nobody can take your job unless you owned it to begin with. So YOU are making a leftist argument.

I didn't say my job in particular, I'm talking about American jobs. Jobs created in this country belong to the people that live in this country. We may be a global economy, but we are not a global country. If an employer wants to hire foreigners, let that employer move to where the foreigners are. Many have done so already.

You have not proven that the current situation keeps wages lower. In FACT, wages are at an all time high and there are plenty of jobs.

For the time being, but that's not always the case, is it? This economy will die down at some point, and then we will be stuck with a bunch of foreigners here who will compete against Americans (who belong here) and then those Americans will end up on some social program. So indirectly, foreigners will be putting Americans on social programs. We simply don't need that. We have enough working capable people on those programs as it is.

The path you've chosen has guaranteed an end to our culture, our foundational principles (which you CLEARLY do not understand) and, consequently, an end to the white race.

No, we on the right are trying to preserve that. You are trying to turn our country into a third world nation. And if it's inevitable, then you are accelerating it tenfold.

There are two important questions that those who advocate for a border wall have never asked me. It would blow their entire case apart IF they had the ability to read the response. You're so wrapped up in parroting the border wall talking points, you will never think to ask questions.

The fact that you won't answer my questions proves, unequivocally, you realize that you're not in a good enough position to believe in the B.S. you promote here every day. You think they are trick questions.

What questions are that?

Where do you get your Rights from? Don't give me a laundry list, but tell me why you REALLY want a wall.

Don't give you a list but I should tell you why I want a wall?

Ray, I'm going to explain this to you one more time. This is not opinion; not left v. right. It's the way it is.

When you advocate that jobs belong to the Americans, you just made a left wing / SOCIALIST argument.

Socialism - noun "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

what is socialism definition - Bing

We're DONE with that. YOU are the socialist because that is what you are advocating. Period.

I agree that we have to look into the future regarding jobs and that is the greatest weakness of what you're proposing. You are not looking five or ten years down the road.

My questions are simple: Where do you get your unalienable Rights from and give me the REAL reason you want a wall around America.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Are foreigners chasing Americans down and forcing them to take drugs OR do Americans of their own free will and volition take the drugs?

You can't use something that isn't there. Given the fact most of our heroin comes across the southern border, it's only common sense to focus on that border to help stop the drugs. However a wall is not just for drugs. A wall is not just for illegals. A wall is there to help retard the activity of both.

Blaming the user who got hooked on drugs (because they are available) is like blaming the woman who got raped because she looked too good the way she dressed.

You say foreigners are taking "our jobs." How is that? Do you own a job that is in the private sector that a foreigner stole from you?

Our highways are polluted with foreign drivers. They are terrible at their job and can't even read the English signs on the road. In the meantime, as long as employers can hire these people for next to nothing, it brings down wages for American drivers which means less will look into that field of work.

Are you saying that the jobs created in the private sector belong to the public, and if so, is that not a socialist argument? Do we not own that which we create?

Jobs created in America are for the American people--not the entire world. Just like jobs created in Italy are for Italian people, or jobs created in Indonesia are for Indonesians.

Finally, if foreigners are sending money back across the southern border, how much of it comes back as foreigners buy goods and services from Americans? I'm sure you must have some facts to figure out a Cost / Benefits Analysis on this.

You don't know where they are buying their goods from once that money makes it to the other side of the border.

As for jobs, wages are rising, new jobs are opening every day and if you want to work, you need to apply for the jobs. Even in YOUR profession there is a pressing need for more people in your industry. That situation took place without a wall. Were you aware of that?

I'm very aware of that. However supply and demand comes into play. If there is more demand than supply, the price goes up. If there is more supply than demand, the price goes down. If you satisfy the demand, the price remains steady.

Wages are going up because (at least for now) we have more demand than supply. Left up to people like you, the supply would be satisfied and Americans would not see wage increases. Then, when it turns around and we have more supply than demand because we let all these people here, wages decrease for Americans and all others.

Most heroin that comes over the southern border is hidden in vehicles comming through ports of entry. Smaller amounts are carried in on foot some walking through ports of entry and some crossing over walls and fences. Cartels send the shipments across the border as oppose to using planes and boats because it's easy and and cheap. If we close off the border they will bring it in using other routes. The profits are so huge, there is no way you can seriously reduce the flow by stopping it in route. Just one cargo container will hold enough uncut heroin to supply US demand for a year.

And Yes, the user is responsible for his habit. Most heroin users get hooked not because drug dealers force their product on them. They search out dealers looking a higher high or a replacement for other drugs.

Don't forget - most drug users were created by their parents and the U.S. government.

 

[leftwinger]

For $5B-$25B i will take the risk of looking old-fashioned. Remember waste under obama?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

How can I? It's a left vs right issue.

It's just getting old hearing each party justify shitty policies "because the other side". It's just like arguing with liberals about ACA. When they are forced to admit that ACA was a sellout to the insurance industry, they blame it on the Republicans - even though exactly no Republicans voted for it.

Likewise, when your wall horseshit is shown to be nothing more than protectionist trade policy lathered up in fear mongering, you blame it on the left, or point out all the horrible things the left has done as if to justify the horrible things you want to do.

If we don't do something to bust up the stranglehold of the two-party system, your partisan pissing match is going to flush the whole country down the toilet.

Do you deny that this is mostly on partisan lines? If you can tell me that people in both parties feel differently, then show me that evidence. But thus far, I've yet to see a lefty in support of Trump or border security for that matter. Everybody on the left doesn't want the wall. Everybody on the right does. After all, the wall issue is what won Trump the presidency.

dblack and I are evidence that you are wrong.

Both moderates.

Are you calling me a moderate?!?! Them's fightin' words!

That's why the build the wall guys only talk that skeet on the Internet. They don't have the balls to talk like that in public.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

One of the most effective ploys by those attempting to vilify undocumented immigrants is to assert that those immigrants are stealing benefits from Americans. Donald Trump has deployed this falsehood over and over and has even promised a law to stop. The fact is there's already is law. In was passed in 1996.

Federal dollars for the following social services are expressed forbidden by federal law:

• Children’s Health Insurance (CHIP)
  
  
• Disability, aka Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
  
  
• Food stamps, aka The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
  
  
• Health insurance, aka insurance via the Affordable Care Act (ACA)
  
  
• Medicaid
  
  
• Medicare
  
  
• Social Security
  
  
• Welfare

Not only are undocumented immigrants barred from these benefits, legal immigrants are also barred for 7 years.

Depending on the state federal dollars can be used for the following under certain circumstances:

• Emergency medical care, including ER visits and Emergency Medicaid
  
  
• Schooling
  
  
• Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)

In spite of the facts, there are a constant stream of claims of billion and hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on illegal immigrants. States can of course fund programs that benefit undocumented immigrants but they can't use federal dollars.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren't Stealing Your Benefits | HuffPost

They're not forbidden for their anchor babies and yes the government reimburses hospitals about 4 billion a year to treat illegal aliens. And what do you think it costs the country for jails, prisons, schooling, property damage in auto accidents, courts (State, local and federal). Then you have property theft, identity theft, murder, kidnapping, assault, rape and various other crimes, none are free to their victims. And the lists go on and on, 100 billion a year is a conservative estimate.

Oh I forgot border and interior law enforcement to round those suckers up, then it costs almost 12,000 each to deport them.

.

The first time I ever heard the allegation that the children of undocumented parents "cost" taxpayers, I went to the hospital and spoke to a woman quoted in the article used to prove the allegation.

The lady I spoke to was Paula Martin. Remember, I spoke to her in person, face to face. When presented with the article, she told me that the taxpayers do NOT reimburse the hospital for any INDIGENT patient. When those who hate the foreigners revised the story, they lied again. Instead of admitting this, the next time the right commented on it, they said:

"The Gwinnett (GA.) Hospital System expects more illegal immigrants will present themselves for urgent care this year and has established a $34 million reserve to cover its outlay."

The Social Contract - Illegal Aliens - The Health Cost Dimension

The $34 million dollar set aside is for INDIGENT patients, not undocumented foreigners. Do undocumented foreigners represent some of those? Yes, they do. But, there are people like the homeless and the downright lazy who avail themselves of this set aside. I have a worthless POS relative (by marriage) that is on the hook to that hospital for $54,000 right now.

So, how do the hospitals generate this $34 million dollars?

Most of the money is generated from uninsured people who pay for their services. And the bad part for those who don't like the undocumented, they pay into that amount as well. They do so because if they pay their income taxes via an Individual Tax Identification Number and keep their bills paid up, they are the first to be considered when amnesties roll around.

Additionally, the undocumented use the hospital for their primary care. And, as long as they pay on their bill, they can continue to use the hospital for routine services.

So, I know, for a fact, you're peddling a lie here. Why do you REALLY not want undocumented foreigners to come here?

Medicaid Helps Hospitals Pay For Illegal Immigrants’ Care

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"The lion’s share goes to reimburse hospitals for delivering babies for women who show up in their emergency rooms, according to interviews with hospital officials and studies."

That is a direct quote from your article. Your point?

That's medical care for illegals.

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The medical care is provided to the biological host of a baby. So, level with me here, would you support abortion for those people instead?