Why is jesus not a jew in churches?

[DiveCon]

i already know you think you are infallible and no amount of proof would change you
you are one of the most arrogant assholes on this board

 

[Ropey]

I wish to be clear as well. I understand the trinity. Just because I don't believe in it does not mean that it is not correct. None of this truly matters anyway. The Jews believe what they do, the Christians believe what they do and so do all other faiths.

True? Doesn't even apply in a belief system or there would be no need for faith. There is only one Lord in Monotheism. The beginning and the end. But this is so in all monotheism. All books are arguable, and there is NO proof one way or the other.

I believe one thing. Whomever we pray to, there is only one G-d for answering. Whatever we as humans choose to call the Lord. There is no right or wrong in who has the true G-od or even if there truly is one. Just belief and faith. Regardless of the book we hold.

That's just my personal belief.

Certainly no reason for becoming angry one way or the other. It's beyond us and meant to be so. So we search...

 

[ABikerSailor]

i already know you think you are infallible and no amount of proof would change you
you are one of the most arrogant assholes on this board

But when I'm right.......I'm right...........

 

[Ropey]

i already know you think you are infallible and no amount of proof would change you
you are one of the most arrogant assholes on this board

But when I'm right.......I'm right...........

So, you've never thought yourself right, and found out you were wrong?

Those who toot their own horns usually make a spiritless sound.

 

[Foxfyre]

I wish to be clear as well. I understand the trinity. Just because I don't believe in it does not mean that it is not correct. None of this truly matters anyway. The Jews believe what they do, the Christians believe what they do and so do all other faiths.

True? Doesn't even apply in a belief system or there would be no need for faith. There is only one Lord in Monotheism. The beginning and the end. But this is so in all monotheism. All books are arguable, and there is NO proof one way or the other.

I believe one thing. Whomever we pray to, there is only one G-d for answering. Whatever we as humans choose to call the Lord. There is no right or wrong in who has the true G-od or even if there truly is one. Just belief and faith. Regardless of the book we hold.

That's just my personal belief.

Certainly no reason for becoming angry one way or the other. It's beyond us and meant to be so. So we search...

Thank you for this. I think G-D or God, be we Christian or of Jewish faith or something else, would not be pleased to think we were quarreling and casting insults at each other as we all seek deeper truths and meanings. I have come to the conclusion that we all have pieces of the truth, none of us have at all, and we're all going to be really surprised one day when we get the real deal explained to us.

Meanwhile, I love JudeoChristian history, have never become bored learning as much as I can about it, and even on a sometimes contemptuous thread such as this, I continue to learn, especially from the thoughtful ones who provide food for further contemplation.

 

[Ropey]

This is why we must build our own tower of Babel. It was not to be given to us as a gift. We must work for it and if it works....

My Rabbi told me, when I was quite young, that we are, none of us Human Beings. He said, rather, we are human becomings.

You're very welcome. The beauty of acceptance is that I can walk away from the negative waves of another and leave them in it. I admit to sometimes pushing them in and laughing at them because I am human. So, when I take a dunking, that's fine as well.

I wish to be clear as well. I understand the trinity. Just because I don't believe in it does not mean that it is not correct. None of this truly matters anyway. The Jews believe what they do, the Christians believe what they do and so do all other faiths.

True? Doesn't even apply in a belief system or there would be no need for faith. There is only one Lord in Monotheism. The beginning and the end. But this is so in all monotheism. All books are arguable, and there is NO proof one way or the other.

I believe one thing. Whomever we pray to, there is only one G-d for answering. Whatever we as humans choose to call the Lord. There is no right or wrong in who has the true G-od or even if there truly is one. Just belief and faith. Regardless of the book we hold.

That's just my personal belief.

Certainly no reason for becoming angry one way or the other. It's beyond us and meant to be so. So we search...

Thank you for this. I think G-D or God, be we Christian or of Jewish faith or something else, would not be pleased to think we were quarreling and casting insults at each other as we all seek deeper truths and meanings. I have come to the conclusion that we all have pieces of the truth, none of us have at all, and we're all going to be really surprised one day when we get the real deal explained to us.

Meanwhile, I love JudeoChristian history, have never become bored learning as much as I can about it, and even on a sometimes contemptuous thread such as this, I continue to learn, especially from the thoughtful ones who provide food for further contemplation.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why on earth would we need to build our own Tower of Babel?

 

[Ropey]

Why on earth would we need to build our own Tower of Babel?

Metaphorically.

Edit:

Damn, you had to make me go and picture it din't ya???

 

[Newby]

Mike, no one is saying that Jews weren't persecuted
but you made a claim about that Rabbi that was totally false, i looked up the man and found proof, then you tried to claim it was another Rabbi
THAT is totally dishonest

No it wasn't, it was a story that I read some time ago. It wasn't based on the specific individual.

My point was that the jewish heroes went out proclaiming how great G-D is, jesus complained to god.

There were a ton of Rabbi Akivas. In Christianity there are a lot of Maries, in judaism there are a lot of Akivas, I didn't think I had to talk about the specific person.

I am not doing that much research about someone who was incidental to my point.

You lied, and not only that you have no integrity either.

So, Mike, when the Messiah does finally come, as you must believe he will, will he be God in the flesh? If so, how does that differ from Jesus Christ?

 

[Newby]

Jews believe that G-d is one and indivisible. Christians believe that G-d is a triparte, a piece of pie that is cut in three but retaining the oneness as it is still one pie.It is the major singular belief of monotheism. Jews do not cut our lord into pieces.

Shema Yisrael -- "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One" -- is perhaps the most famous of all Jewish sayings. It is the most integral to who we are.

That's why Jews can not be Christians, and Christians can not be Jews. They can be Jewish by race, but not a Jew which is considered by race and belief AND practice. There is a big difference between a Jew and being Jewish. A Jew can become a Christian, but when they do, they lose their contact to the Jewish G-d as a practicing Jew.
.
.
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What will the Messiah be when he comes then?

 

[Newby]

Wrong. Ever heard of HaShem, Adonai, Elokim, or the 4 Letter Name?

Our names. Not the Lord's given name.

Each name shows a different attribute of G-D when it's used.
Judaism 101: The Name of G-d

You mean like God in the flesh, and God in the spirit?

 

[jillian]

Jews believe that G-d is one and indivisible. Christians believe that G-d is a triparte, a piece of pie that is cut in three but retaining the oneness as it is still one pie.It is the major singular belief of monotheism. Jews do not cut our lord into pieces.

Shema Yisrael -- "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One" -- is perhaps the most famous of all Jewish sayings. It is the most integral to who we are.

That's why Jews can not be Christians, and Christians can not be Jews. They can be Jewish by race, but not a Jew which is considered by race and belief AND practice. There is a big difference between a Jew and being Jewish. A Jew can become a Christian, but when they do, they lose their contact to the Jewish G-d as a practicing Jew.
.
.

What will the Messiah be when he comes then?

He won't be G-d. There is only one G-d. The messiah will be what he was always supposed to be... a messianic king of the line of david who will bring 1,000 years of peace.

 

[jillian]

Our names. Not the Lord's given name.

Each name shows a different attribute of G-D when it's used.
Judaism 101: The Name of G-d

You mean like God in the flesh, and God in the spirit?

No. You can't assign your own belief system to someone else's belief.

There is only G-d, regardless of the names he goes by, the true one being unknowable.

Kabbalah believes the attributes of G-d are these (known as sephirot)....

The ten Sefirot are:
1. Keter Elyon, or just Keter - the "supreme crown" of God
2. Hokmah - the "wisdom" of God
3. Binah - the "intelligence" of God
4. Gedullah or Hesed - the "greatness" or "love" of God
5. Gevurah or Din - the "power" or "judgment" of God
6. Rahamim or Tifaret - the "compassion" or "beauty" of God
7. Netzah - the "lasting endurance" of God
8. Hod - the "majesty" of God
9. Tzaddik or Yesod Olam or just Yesod - the "righteous one" or "foundation of the world"
10. Malkut - the "kingdom" of God, usually described in the Zohar as the Keneset Israel, or the Shekhinah, the indwelling divinity of the community of Israel. [Gershom Scholem, Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism, p.213; and Kabbalah, p.106]

Kabbalistic Theology - the Ten Sefirot

 

[Newby]

Each name shows a different attribute of G-D when it's used.
Judaism 101: The Name of G-d

You mean like God in the flesh, and God in the spirit?

No. You can't assign your own belief system to someone else's belief.

There is only G-d, regardless of the names he goes by, the true one being unknowable.

Kabbalah believes the attributes of G-d are these (known as sephirot)....

The ten Sefirot are:
1. Keter Elyon, or just Keter - the "supreme crown" of God
2. Hokmah - the "wisdom" of God
3. Binah - the "intelligence" of God
4. Gedullah or Hesed - the "greatness" or "love" of God
5. Gevurah or Din - the "power" or "judgment" of God
6. Rahamim or Tifaret - the "compassion" or "beauty" of God
7. Netzah - the "lasting endurance" of God
8. Hod - the "majesty" of God
9. Tzaddik or Yesod Olam or just Yesod - the "righteous one" or "foundation of the world"
10. Malkut - the "kingdom" of God, usually described in the Zohar as the Keneset Israel, or the Shekhinah, the indwelling divinity of the community of Israel. [Gershom Scholem, Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism, p.213; and Kabbalah, p.106]

Kabbalistic Theology - the Ten Sefirot

But Christians believe there is only one God as well, regardless of the name He goes by.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

I've already gone over the practices part, and how it has nothing to do with the point being made. The RELIGIOUS beliefs of the two religions however are mutually exclusive. One religion believes their deity is comprised of a trinity, including a prominent human figure representing one part of that trinity and the messiah. The other does not. 3 parts to the a deity is mutually exclusive to a single inseparable part, just as believing a messiah has already come is mutually exclusive to believing a messiah has NOT already come.

Well, I'm so glad that you've decided for the Jews what is and isn't important in their religion, and what does and doesn't constitute "practicing the Jewish religion", because I'm sure they wouldn't have been capable of working that out for themselves without your help. You should really sit down and compose a memo to all those misguided Jewish Christians out there, informing them that they're not really Jews any more.

Imagine all those silly people in the world, thinking that religion is a personal, individual choice, rather than a rigid, standardized policy settled by other people for them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Jews believe that G-d is one and indivisible. Christians believe that G-d is a triparte, a piece of pie that is cut in three but retaining the oneness as it is still one pie.

It is the major singular belief of monotheism. Jews do not cut our lord into pieces.

Shema Yisrael -- "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One" -- is perhaps the most famous of all Jewish sayings. It is the most integral to who we are.

That's why Jews can not be Christians, and Christians can not be Jews. They can be Jewish by race, but not a Jew which is considered by race and belief AND practice. There is a big difference between a Jew and being Jewish. A Jew can become a Christian, but when they do, they lose their contact to the Jewish G-d as a practicing Jew.

I have met Jews for Christ. They are not Jews for Christ. They are Jewish people who have converted their belief of Judaism into Christianity. They are Jewish people for Christ. They practice Christianity, not Judaism.

Christianity and rabbinic Judaism emerged as rival claimants to continuity with Israel after the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD. Since Christians have long held political power over them, Jews’ opposition to Christian claims about Jesus are not only theological (a denial that Jesus is the messiah) but essential to Jewish identity and survival. That’s why Jews tend to be more tolerant of other Jews who dabble in, say, Buddhist thought and practice than of those who move toward Christianity. Harris-Shapiro underscores a basic Jewish concern with Christian evangelizing of Jews "The problem with proselytization is [that] the already-small Jewish community is shrinking. There is real fear of our disappearance."

Clicky

I wish them the best. In the fullness of time we shall see what we shall see. Until then, it is all belief.

Jew = Race and Belief
Jewish = Of the Jewish Race and by extension practicing their Belief
Judaisim = the Belief of the Jewish people

My view, at any rate.

I don't know how I can possibly make this point any more clear. I am NOT speaking of culture or tradition, and it's ridiculous to refer to jews genetically. As I mentioned in my previous post: I am responding ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of the Jewish identification. With respect ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of that identification, there can be no "Christian Jew" religiously. The two terms, RELIGIOUSLY, are mutually exclusive.

Someone can certainly be raised culturally Jewish, convert to Christianity, and still take part in Jewish customs. Relinquishing religious Judaism doesn't prevent someone from making latkes suddenly. But it's still ridiculous to define or identifyany religion today as their genetics.





No.

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

I would love to know when it was that Trinitarianism became standardized across all Christian denominations, and where I was when it happened, because I don't seem to have gotten the official memo on the subject. Exactly who decided that this was the case?

 

[editec]

Some of you people speak about the details of Christianity as though all Christians were on the same page about their religion.

They're most definitely not.

The "Trinity" is a perfect example of that.

Not every Christian believes in that.

Hell there are branches of Christianty that don't believe Jesus was devine, too.

Of course the RC chruch did its best to create and impose their dogma on the rest of Christendom but they failed to end the debates.

 

[jillian]

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

That is an interesting question. But it seems to me that Christianity is in itself based on the acceptance of Jesus as messiah. That would be anathema to the following of Judaism. The only religion I know of which is consistent with pretty much every other is Buddism.

 

[AllieBaba]

Some of you people speak about the details of Christianity as though all Christians were on the same page about their religion.

They're most definitely not.

The "Trinity" is a perfect example of that.

Not every Christian believes in that.

Hell there are branches of Christianty that don't believe Jesus was devine, too.

Of course the RC chruch did its best to create and impose their dogma on the rest of Christendom but they failed to end the debates.

The branches of Christianity that don't believe in the divinity of Christ are by definition, NOT Christian.

 

[Foxfyre]

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

That is an interesting question. But it seems to me that Christianity is in itself based on the acceptance of Jesus as messiah. That would be anathema to the following of Judaism. The only religion I know of which is consistent with pretty much every other is Buddism.

There are sects with differences in teachings and beliefs even within Buddhism, however. I think you can't have people widely separated and from diverse cultures without that happening. That is why I say I think we all have understanding of truth and we all have it wrong here and there and that is why I won't fight with anybody re religious beliefs. The history and liturgies are very interesting to me and I love to explore different concepts, but life is simply to short to nitpick to the extreme or insult or get angry with people who believe differently.