Why is jesus not a jew in churches?

[CMike]

These were some of the jewish heroes.

Jewish History 1090 - 1099

1096 Spring, CRUSADERS (France-Germany)

Over one quarter of the Jewish population of Germany and northern France were killed during the First Crusade (1095-1099), mostly during the months of April-June. It was estimated that in Germany, prior to the First Crusade, there were approximately 20,000 Jews. The period of time between Pessach and Shavuot (Passover and Pentecost) is also known as Sefirat Haomer which commemorates the death of Rabbi Akiva's pupils (2nd Century) and was considered a period of mourning. Since most of the massacres took place between these dates, new regulations of national mourning were added. This was also the period of time when the Unetaneh Tokef prayer for Yom Kippur was written by Amnon of Mayence.


1096 April 10, TRIER (Germany)

After being attacked by a mob and threatened with death, Bishop Egelbert offered to save all Jews who were willing to be baptized. Most Jews chose to drown themselves instead.

1096 May 3, EMICHO (Emico), COUNT OF LEININGEN (Germany)

On his way to join the Crusade led by Peter the Hermit, he attacked the synagogue at Speyer. The Jews defended themselves but were systematically slain. Until this time atrocities in Europe were sporadic. From here on in they became organized and frequent, and Jewish martyrdom began in earnest. (It should be remembered that the atrocities committed by the rampaging crusaders were not always supported by the local burghers and bishops. Furthermore, in many countries - especially the Slavic states - the local Christian community suffered from pillages as well. John, bishop of Speyer even called out his army after 11 Jews were killed in a riot, but he was an exception rather than the rule. Approximately 5,000 Jews were murdered in Germany in 1096.)


1096 May 18, WORMS MASSACRE (Germany)

The survivors hid in the Bishop's palace for one week, after which they were either murdered or forcibly baptized.

1096 May 25, WORMS (Germany)

Simcha bar Isaac Hakohen pretended to submit to baptism. As he entered the church he attacked the priest. He was "torn to bits" by the crowd.

1096 May 27, MAYENCE (Germany)

Count Emicho entered Mayence. Approximately 1200 Jews took refuge in the Episcopal Palace and, seeing no other escape from forced conversion, chose suicide using ritual slaughter knives. Each family head killed his wife and children, with the leaders killing themselves last. The idea of suicide, normally abhorrent, was considered acceptable or even preferable under these circumstances. One Jew by the name of Isaac, his two daughters and a friend called Uriah allowed themselves to be baptized. Within a few weeks Isaac, who was remorseful of his act, killed his daughters and burned his own house. He and Uriah went to the local synagogue, locked themselves in and burned it down. A large part of the city was destroyed.

 

[Ravi]

There were a lot of Rabbi Akivas as I said. It was irrelevant to the point which I was making which is the manner of how he died.

The jewish heros did defiantly proclaiming the greatness of G-D. Jesus died complaining to god. That it the point I was making.

You want a list of how christians treated the jews?

This is the point you made:

One of the most famous was a person called Rabbi Akiva. He was burned at the stake and the christians made sure it was a slow death.

The point I was making was the difference between how jewish heros died and how jesus died.

However, since you want to bring up christian atrocities here you go.

The Inquisition


In the beginning, the Inquisition dealt only with Christian heretics and did not interfere with the affairs of Jews. However, disputes about Maimonides’ books (which addressed the synthesis of Judaism and other cultures) provided a pretext for harassing Jews and, in 1242, the Inquisition condemned the Talmud and burned thousands of volumes..

In 1288, the first mass burning of Jews on the stake took place in France.

More than 13,000 Conversos were put on trial during the first 12 years of the Spanish Inquisition. Hoping to eliminate ties between the Jewish community and Conversos, the Jews of Spain were expelled in 1492..

The next phase of the Inquisition began around 1531, when Pope Leo X extended the Inquisition to Portugal. Thousands of Jews came to Portugal after the 1492 expulsion. A Spanish style Inquisition was constituted and tribunals were set up in Lisbon and other cities. Among the Jews who died at the hands of the Inquisition were well-known figures of the period such as Isaac de Castro Tartas, Antonio Serrao de Castro and Antonio Jose da Silva. The Inquisition never stopped in Spain and continued until the late 18th century.

By the second half of the 18th century, the Inquisition abated, due to the spread of enlightened ideas and lack of resources. The last auto de fe in Portugal took place on October 27, 1765. Not until 1808, during the brief reign of Joseph Bonaparte, was the Inquisition abolished in Spain. An estimated 31,912 heretics were burned at the stake, 17,659 were burned in effigy and 291,450 made reconciliations in the Spanish Inquisition. In Portugal, about 40,000 cases were tried, although only 1,800 were burned, the rest made penance.The Inquisition was not limited to Europe; it also spread to Spanish and Portugese colonies in the New World and Asia. Many Jews and Conversos fled from Portugal and Spain to the New World seeking greater security and economic opportunities. Branches of the Portugese Inquisition were set up in Goa and Brazil. Spanish tribunals and auto de fes were set up in Mexico, the Philippine Islands, Guatemala, Peru, New Granada and the Canary Islands. By the late 18th century, most of these were dissolved.

Just admit you were wrong, jeesh!

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Jews are not just a religion
does a Jew cease to be a Jew if they become atheist?

Sure, you could talk about culture or tradition. I was responding only to the religious aspect of it. If a Jew becomes an atheist or another mutually exclusive religion, they are by definition no longer religiously Jewish.

so, you think it changes their genetics because they change religions?

are there any atheist Jews?
agnostic?

but they would still be ethnically Jewish
so a Christian Jew would be someone ethnically Jewish and a Christian

I don't know how I can possibly make this point any more clear. I am NOT speaking of culture or tradition, and it's ridiculous to refer to jews genetically. As I mentioned in my previous post: I am responding ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of the Jewish identification. With respect ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of that identification, there can be no "Christian Jew" religiously. The two terms, RELIGIOUSLY, are mutually exclusive.

Someone can certainly be raised culturally Jewish, convert to Christianity, and still take part in Jewish customs. Relinquishing religious Judaism doesn't prevent someone from making latkes suddenly. But it's still ridiculous to define or identifyany religion today as their genetics.

Are you stating that the majority of the first Christians were NOT from Jewish background?.

No.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Sure, you could talk about culture or tradition. I was responding only to the religious aspect of it. If a Jew becomes an atheist or another mutually exclusive religion, they are by definition no longer religiously Jewish.

but they would still be ethnically Jewish
so a Christian Jew would be someone ethnically Jewish and a Christian

I don't know how I can possibly make this point any more clear. I am NOT speaking of culture or tradition, and it's ridiculous to refer to jews genetically. As I mentioned in my previous post: I am responding ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of the Jewish identification. With respect ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of that identification, there can be no "Christian Jew" religiously. The two terms, RELIGIOUSLY, are mutually exclusive.

Someone can certainly be raised culturally Jewish, convert to Christianity, and still take part in Jewish customs. Relinquishing religious Judaism doesn't prevent someone from making latkes suddenly. But it's still ridiculous to define or identifyany religion today as their genetics.

Are you stating that the majority of the first Christians were NOT from Jewish background?.

No.

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

 

[Foxfyre]

but they would still be ethnically Jewish
so a Christian Jew would be someone ethnically Jewish and a Christian

I don't know how I can possibly make this point any more clear. I am NOT speaking of culture or tradition, and it's ridiculous to refer to jews genetically. As I mentioned in my previous post: I am responding ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of the Jewish identification. With respect ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of that identification, there can be no "Christian Jew" religiously. The two terms, RELIGIOUSLY, are mutually exclusive.

Someone can certainly be raised culturally Jewish, convert to Christianity, and still take part in Jewish customs. Relinquishing religious Judaism doesn't prevent someone from making latkes suddenly. But it's still ridiculous to define or identifyany religion today as their genetics.

Are you stating that the majority of the first Christians were NOT from Jewish background?.

No.

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

Both share so many beliefs as to be almost indistinguishable in some areas even to the Jewish Law to which many Christians also subscribe, though I can't figure out how one can feel saved by grace while feeling bound to the Law. But the most basic difference is that the religious Jew still awaits the Messiah while the Christian believes He has already come. Same Messiah. Different perceptions.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

I've already gone over the practices part, and how it has nothing to do with the point being made. The RELIGIOUS beliefs of the two religions however are mutually exclusive. One religion believes their deity is comprised of a trinity, including a prominent human figure representing one part of that trinity and the messiah. The other does not. 3 parts to the a deity is mutually exclusive to a single inseparable part, just as believing a messiah has already come is mutually exclusive to believing a messiah has NOT already come.

 

[Ropey]

Jews believe that G-d is one and indivisible. Christians believe that G-d is a triparte, a piece of pie that is cut in three but retaining the oneness as it is still one pie.

It is the major singular belief of monotheism. Jews do not cut our lord into pieces.

Shema Yisrael -- "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One" -- is perhaps the most famous of all Jewish sayings. It is the most integral to who we are.

That's why Jews can not be Christians, and Christians can not be Jews. They can be Jewish by race, but not a Jew which is considered by race and belief AND practice. There is a big difference between a Jew and being Jewish. A Jew can become a Christian, but when they do, they lose their contact to the Jewish G-d as a practicing Jew.

I have met Jews for Christ. They are not Jews for Christ. They are Jewish people who have converted their belief of Judaism into Christianity. They are Jewish people for Christ. They practice Christianity, not Judaism.

Christianity and rabbinic Judaism emerged as rival claimants to continuity with Israel after the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD. Since Christians have long held political power over them, Jews’ opposition to Christian claims about Jesus are not only theological (a denial that Jesus is the messiah) but essential to Jewish identity and survival. That’s why Jews tend to be more tolerant of other Jews who dabble in, say, Buddhist thought and practice than of those who move toward Christianity. Harris-Shapiro underscores a basic Jewish concern with Christian evangelizing of Jews "The problem with proselytization is [that] the already-small Jewish community is shrinking. There is real fear of our disappearance."

Clicky

I wish them the best. In the fullness of time we shall see what we shall see. Until then, it is all belief.

Jew = Race and Belief
Jewish = Of the Jewish Race and by extension practicing their Belief
Judaisim = the Belief of the Jewish people

My view, at any rate.

but they would still be ethnically Jewish
so a Christian Jew would be someone ethnically Jewish and a Christian

I don't know how I can possibly make this point any more clear. I am NOT speaking of culture or tradition, and it's ridiculous to refer to jews genetically. As I mentioned in my previous post: I am responding ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of the Jewish identification. With respect ONLY TO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT of that identification, there can be no "Christian Jew" religiously. The two terms, RELIGIOUSLY, are mutually exclusive.

Someone can certainly be raised culturally Jewish, convert to Christianity, and still take part in Jewish customs. Relinquishing religious Judaism doesn't prevent someone from making latkes suddenly. But it's still ridiculous to define or identifyany religion today as their genetics.

Are you stating that the majority of the first Christians were NOT from Jewish background?.

No.

And exactly what is it about Judaism and Chritianity that you think is so mutually exclusive that one cannot observe the religious practices, and even beliefs, of both?

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, the bit I know about Judaic theology, no, they don't cut God into 3 pieces.

However, they DO recognize that He's got several names.

And none of them is Yeshua.

 

[Ropey]

You know, the bit I know about Judaic theology, no, they don't cut God into 3 pieces.

However, they DO recognize that He's got several names.

And none of them is Yeshua.

Our G-d has no name. G-d said, "I am that I am" when Moses asked him who he was.

It is our only connection to a name that we have from our Lord. All his given names for familiarity are given by man, not our Lord.

Clicky

Hebrew Bible

The word Ehyeh is used a total of 43 places in the Hebrew Bible, where it is usually translated as "I will be" -- as is the case for its first occurrence, in Genesis 26:3—or "I shall be," as is the case for its final occurrence in Zechariah 8:8. It stems from the Hebrew conception of monotheism that God exists by himself, the uncreated Creator who does not depend on anything or anyone; therefore I am who I am. Some scholars[who?] state the Tetragrammaton itself derives from the same verbal root, but others counter that it may simply sound similar as intended by God, such as Psalm 119 and the Hebrew words "shoqed" (watching) and "shaqed" (almond branch) found in Jeremiah 1:11-12.

Intertestamental Judaism

In the Hellenistic Greek literature of the Jewish Diaspora the phrase "Ehyeh asher ehyeh" was rendered in Greek "ego eimi ho on", "I am the BEING".

* Septuagint Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I am HE WHO IS (ho on): and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, HE WHO IS (ho on) hath sent me unto you.[1]
* Philo : And God said, "At first say unto them, 'I am (ego eimi) THE BEING,'(ho on, nominative of ontos) that, when they have learnt that there is a difference between THE BEING (ontos, genitive of ho on) and that-that-is-not (me ontos), they may be further taught that there is no name whatever that can properly be assigned to Me (ep' emou kuriologeitai), to whom (oi) only (monoi) belongs (prosesti) the existence (to einai). (Philo Life Of Moses Vol.1 :75)[2][3]
* ho On, "He who is" (Philo, Life of Moses I 75)
* to On, "the Being who is" (Philo, Life of Moses II 67),
* tou Ontos, "of Him that is" (II 99)
* tou Ontos, "of the Self-Existent" (II 132)
* to On, "the Self-Existent" (II 161)[4]

This usage is also found in the New Testament:

* Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, the BEING (ho on), and THE WAS (ho en), and THE IS TO COME (ho erchomenos), the Almighty (ho pantokrator).[5]
* Rev 4:8 holy, Lord God Almighty, the WAS (ho en), and the BEING (ho on), and the IS TO COME (ho erchomenos).

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, the bit I know about Judaic theology, no, they don't cut God into 3 pieces.

However, they DO recognize that He's got several names.

And none of them is Yeshua.

Our G-d has no name. G-d said, "I am that I am" when Moses asked him who he was.

It is our only connection to a name that we have from our Lord. All his given names for familiarity are given by man, not our Lord.

Wrong. Ever heard of HaShem, Adonai, Elokim, or the 4 Letter Name?

 

[Ropey]

Wrong. Ever heard of HaShem, Adonai, Elokim, or the 4 Letter Name?

Our names. Not the Lord's given name.

 

[CMike]

He didn't pray to himself. He prayed as a fully human being to God the Father who was still spirit, not flesh. Again, perhaps it can't be fully understood without the Holy Spirit as the Apostle Paul taught. I don't know. I understand and believe. I can appreciate why that is difficult for someone like Cmike to do.

There are more than 360 'Old Testament' references that Christians believe point to Jesus as the Messiah and yet he wasn't anything like what they were expecting which is why nobody recognized him as the Messiah at first. Even those specially called twelve men who were with him constantly for the three years of his ministry did not recognize him for most of that time. Most Christians now understand that there is a God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit though all Christians are not 100% agreed about exactly what that means.

Someone likened the three personas of God to water, ice, steam--all the same stuff but different in substance.

There is no reference to jesus in any way in the Torah, except for the perversion by christians who wish to create ones.


"Hear O'Israel The Lord Is Our G-D, The Lord is One."

It doesn't say one in separate parts. It says one. ONE. ONE! ONE! ONE

 

[CMike]

BTW Hi Jen T

 

[CMike]

Wrong. Ever heard of HaShem, Adonai, Elokim, or the 4 Letter Name?

Our names. Not the Lord's given name.

Each name shows a different attribute of G-D when it's used.

Judaism 101: The Name of G-d

 

[CMike]

He didn't pray to himself. He prayed as a fully human being to God the Father who was still spirit, not flesh. Again, perhaps it can't be fully understood without the Holy Spirit as the Apostle Paul taught. I don't know. I understand and believe. I can appreciate why that is difficult for someone like Cmike to do..

I have no problem understanding it.

 

[Ropey]

Wrong. Ever heard of HaShem, Adonai, Elokim, or the 4 Letter Name?

Our names. Not the Lord's given name.

Each name shows a different attribute of G-D when it's used.

Judaism 101: The Name of G-d

Yes, but still our names to understand our Lord better. It would seem that the Lord was clear that he has no need of defining names.

As the first and the last needs no name. Only those in between have needs of names and familiarity.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Wrong. Ever heard of HaShem, Adonai, Elokim, or the 4 Letter Name?

Our names. Not the Lord's given name.

Really? They're written in the Torah, which was supposed to be written by God and given to Moshe on Sinai.

 

[DiveCon]

Wrong. Ever heard of HaShem, Adonai, Elokim, or the 4 Letter Name?

Our names. Not the Lord's given name.

Really? They're written in the Torah, which was supposed to be written by God and given to Moshe on Sinai.

what???
you are confusing the 10 commandments and the torah
Moses wrote the Pentateuch(first 5 books of the Old Testament)

 

[ABikerSailor]

Our names. Not the Lord's given name.

Really? They're written in the Torah, which was supposed to be written by God and given to Moshe on Sinai.

what???
you are confusing the 10 commandments and the torah
Moses wrote the Pentateuch(first 5 books of the Old Testament)

That's the Torah you pinhead.

The term Torah (Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "Instruction"), also known as the Pentateuch (Greek: Πεντάτευχος from πεντα- penta- [five] and τεῦχος teuchos [tool, vessel, book]),[1] refers to the Five Books of Moses—the entirety of Judaism's founding legal and ethical religious texts.[2][3] A "Sefer Torah" (סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה, "book of Torah") or Torah scroll is a copy of the Torah written on parchment in a formal, traditional manner by a specially trained scribe under strict requirements.

The Torah is the first of three parts of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), the founding religious document of Judaism,[4] and is divided into five books, whose names in English are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, in reference to their themes (their Hebrew names, Bereshit, בראשית, Shmot שמות, Vayikra ויקרא, Bamidbar במדבר, and Dvarim דברים, are derived from the wording of their initial verses). The Torah contains a variety of literary genres, including allegory, historical narrative, poetry, genealogy, and the exposition of various types of law. According to rabbinic tradition, the Torah contains the 613 mitzvot (מצוות, "commandments"), which are divided into 365 restrictions and 248 positive commands.[5] In rabbinic literature, the word "Torah" denotes both the written text, "Torah Shebichtav" (תורה שבכתב, "Torah that is written"), as well as an oral tradition, "Torah Shebe'al Peh" (תורה שבעל פה, "Torah that is oral"). The oral portion consists of the "traditional interpretations and amplifications handed down by word of mouth from generation to generation," now embodied in the Talmud and Midrash.[6]

According to Jewish tradition the Torah was revealed to Moses in 1312 BCE at Mount Sinai;[7]

When Moshe (Moses) went up on Sinai for 40 days and nights, it was revealed to him by God, which means basically that he dictated it.

Try again.

 

[DiveCon]

Really? They're written in the Torah, which was supposed to be written by God and given to Moshe on Sinai.

what???
you are confusing the 10 commandments and the torah
Moses wrote the Pentateuch(first 5 books of the Old Testament)

That's the Torah you pinhead.

The term Torah (Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "Instruction"), also known as the Pentateuch (Greek: Πεντάτευχος from πεντα- penta- [five] and τεῦχος teuchos [tool, vessel, book]),[1] refers to the Five Books of Moses—the entirety of Judaism's founding legal and ethical religious texts.[2][3] A "Sefer Torah" (סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה, "book of Torah") or Torah scroll is a copy of the Torah written on parchment in a formal, traditional manner by a specially trained scribe under strict requirements.

The Torah is the first of three parts of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), the founding religious document of Judaism,[4] and is divided into five books, whose names in English are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, in reference to their themes (their Hebrew names, Bereshit, בראשית, Shmot שמות, Vayikra ויקרא, Bamidbar במדבר, and Dvarim דברים, are derived from the wording of their initial verses). The Torah contains a variety of literary genres, including allegory, historical narrative, poetry, genealogy, and the exposition of various types of law. According to rabbinic tradition, the Torah contains the 613 mitzvot (מצוות, "commandments"), which are divided into 365 restrictions and 248 positive commands.[5] In rabbinic literature, the word "Torah" denotes both the written text, "Torah Shebichtav" (תורה שבכתב, "Torah that is written"), as well as an oral tradition, "Torah Shebe'al Peh" (תורה שבעל פה, "Torah that is oral"). The oral portion consists of the "traditional interpretations and amplifications handed down by word of mouth from generation to generation," now embodied in the Talmud and Midrash.[6]

According to Jewish tradition the Torah was revealed to Moses in 1312 BCE at Mount Sinai;[7]

When Moshe (Moses) went up on Sinai for 40 days and nights, it was revealed to him by God, which means basically that he dictated it.

Try again.

uh no
but do continue