Why is naturalism considered scientific and creationism is not ?

[Youwerecreated]

My claim is that your claim was wrong. Sugar is evidence. You are evidence.

Are you done lying?

Are you gonna admit your ignorance on the subject of genetics ?

I'll admit, I know a lot more than you on the subject.
I realize, that's a very low bar you set.

You are the one stuttering and falling back on your sugar argument not realizing how sugar got more complex.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Look there are sides that argue the earth is a closed system and some that argue it's an open system. but either way you have used a faulty argument to try and show an increase in complexity. I have told you all along that complexity comes from new genetic information and there is no evidence support an increase in complexity view.

Look there are sides that argue the earth is a closed system and some that argue it's an open system.

The only ones arguing that are really confused.

but either way you have used a faulty argument to try and show an increase in complexity.

Sugar isn't more complex? Please explain your "reasoning".

I have told you all along that complexity comes from new genetic information

You've said that's impossible, because of the 2nd Law.
So why is sugar possible but new genetic information impossible?

Really scientists are confused ? they even made arguments to support the view the earth is a closed system that I have not seen a rebuttal to.

You brought it up explain the increase in complexity in sugar ? why did you change the subject ?

The only way you can increase complexity is by manipulating the genes that does not happen naturally got it ?

Really scientists are confused ?

No, you are confused. Not scientists. Just you.

You brought it up explain the increase in complexity in sugar ?

What? You said the 2nd Law makes increased complexity impossible.
Were you lying or just confused?
Sugar is more complex, has more energy, than CO2 and H2O.
Get it?

The only way you can increase complexity is by manipulating the genes

Plants don't need gene manipulation to make sugar.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Faulty reasoning on your part. Is a senior citizen MORE COMPLEX than a 18 year old ?

No. What does that have to do with your faulty claim that nothing on Earth can get more complex, because the Earth is a closed system?

They are different stages of the cycle right ? so why is an 18 year old more complex than a fertilized egg ? they are different stages of life.

so why is an 18 year old more complex than a fertilized egg ?

Does an 18 year old have more bones, more internal organs?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you gonna admit your ignorance on the subject of genetics ?

I'll admit, I know a lot more than you on the subject.
I realize, that's a very low bar you set.

You are the one stuttering and falling back on your sugar argument not realizing how sugar got more complex.

Sugar got more complex because the plant used energy.
The same way you got more complex, though no smarter, than when you were an egg.

Despite your claim that the Earth is a closed system, therefore things cannot get more complex, because the 2nd Law told you so.

 

[daws101]

Why does that egg produce all of that ? No I have said this before the genetic data forces it's will on the matter, and eventually that egg becomes a fully formed human and eventually will face the 2nd law where it will wear out because of disorder and the level of entropy. This is why I stated if a system is gonna get more complex it has to do so early on during construction.

The blue print is produced during fertilization and then the construction is started and completed according to the blueprint.

Why does that egg produce all of that ?

Because living things can get more complex, despite your confusion about the 2nd Law.

This is why I stated if a system is gonna get more complex it has to do so early on during construction.

You stated more complexity is impossible. Don't lie.

If the genetic information was present all along and the organism is just going through the cycle,how is that getting more complex ? So an aging organism is getting more complex ?

hey slAPDICK
AN EGG CELL CHRYSALIS ET AL HAVE THE "POTENTIAL" FOR COMPLEXITY.
IF AND EGG OR ANYTHING WAS AS STRUCTURALLY COMPLEX AS IT'S MOTHER /HOST
BIRTH WOULD LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS :

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why does that egg produce all of that ?

Because living things can get more complex, despite your confusion about the 2nd Law.

This is why I stated if a system is gonna get more complex it has to do so early on during construction.

You stated more complexity is impossible. Don't lie.

If the genetic information was present all along and the organism is just going through the cycle,how is that getting more complex ? So an aging organism is getting more complex ?

hey slAPDICK
AN EGG CELL CHRYSALIS ET AL HAVE THE "POTENTIAL" FOR COMPLEXITY.
IF AND EGG OR ANYTHING WAS AS STRUCTURALLY COMPLEX AS IT'S MOTHER /HOST
BIRTH WOULD LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS :[ame=http://youtu.be/TCm_srXvB0c]Alien Chestbuster (with Meows) - YouTube[/ame]

Is that a Dalek popping out of the Doctor?

 

[daws101]

That is correct early on before the organism exists but that does not occur.

Try that again, in English.

Getting new and beneficial genetic information early on that leads to a new and beneficial trait that makes us better adapted. It rarely happens and this is a problem for the theory of evolution.

BULLSHIT...Evolutionary Genetics

First published Fri Jan 14, 2005

Evolutionary genetics is the broad field of studies that resulted from the integration of genetics and Darwinian evolution, called the ‘modern synthesis’ (Huxley 1942), achieved through the theoretical works of R. A. Fisher, S. Wright, and J. B. S. Haldane and the conceptual works and influential writings of J. Huxley, T. Dobzhansky, and H.J. Muller. This field attempts to account for evolution in terms of changes in gene and genotype frequencies within populations and the processes that convert the variation with populations into more or less permanent variation between species. In this view, four evolutionary forces (mutation, random genetic drift, natural selection, and gene flow) acting within and among populations cause micro-evolutionary change and these processes are sufficient to account for macro-evolutionary patterns, which arise in the longer term from the collective action of these forces. That is, given very long periods of time, the micro-evolutionary forces will eventually give rise to the macro-evolutionary patterns that characterize the higher taxonomic groups. Thus, the central challenge of Evolutionary Genetics is to describe how the evolutionary forces shape the patterns of biodiversity observed in nature.

The force of mutation is the ultimate source of new genetic variation within populations. Although most mutations are neutral with no effect on fitness or harmful, some mutations have a small, positive effect on fitness and these variants are the raw materials for gradualistic adaptive evolution. Within finite populations, random genetic drift and natural selection affect the mutational variation. Natural selection is the only evolutionary force which can produce adaptation, the fit between organism and environment, or conserve genetic states over very long periods of time in the face of the dispersive forces of mutation and drift. The force of migration or gene flow has effects on genetic variation that are the opposite of those caused by random genetic drift. Migration limits the genetic divergence of populations and so impedes the process of speciation. The effect of each of these evolutionary forces on genetic variation within and among populations has been developed in great detail in the mathematical theory of population genetics founded on the seminal works of Fisher, Wright, and Haldane.

Among the evolutionary forces, natural selection has long been privileged in evolutionary studies because of its crucial role in adaptation. Ecological genetics is the study of evolutionary processes, especially adaptation by natural selection, in an ecological context in order to account for phenotypic patterns observed in nature. Where population genetics tends toward a branch of applied mathematics founded on Mendelian axioms, often with minimal contact with data, ecological genetics is grounded in the reciprocal interaction between mathematical theory and empirical observations from field and laboratory.
Evolutionary Genetics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

[daws101]

Oh dang it's finally sinking in.

IF by sinking in that you are talking out your ass ,then yes it is..
if you mean coming around to your fucking nonsense then no..

 

[daws101]

If the genetic information was present all along and the organism is just going through the cycle,how is that getting more complex ? So an aging organism is getting more complex ?

hey slAPDICK
AN EGG CELL CHRYSALIS ET AL HAVE THE "POTENTIAL" FOR COMPLEXITY.
IF AND EGG OR ANYTHING WAS AS STRUCTURALLY COMPLEX AS IT'S MOTHER /HOST
BIRTH WOULD LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS :[ame=http://youtu.be/TCm_srXvB0c]Alien Chestbuster (with Meows) - YouTube[/ame]

Is that a Dalek popping out of the Doctor?

exterminate!

 

[Youwerecreated]

Look there are sides that argue the earth is a closed system and some that argue it's an open system.

The only ones arguing that are really confused.

but either way you have used a faulty argument to try and show an increase in complexity.

Sugar isn't more complex? Please explain your "reasoning".

I have told you all along that complexity comes from new genetic information

You've said that's impossible, because of the 2nd Law.
So why is sugar possible but new genetic information impossible?

Really scientists are confused ? they even made arguments to support the view the earth is a closed system that I have not seen a rebuttal to.

You brought it up explain the increase in complexity in sugar ? why did you change the subject ?

The only way you can increase complexity is by manipulating the genes that does not happen naturally got it ?

Really scientists are confused ?

No, you are confused. Not scientists. Just you.

You brought it up explain the increase in complexity in sugar ?

What? You said the 2nd Law makes increased complexity impossible.
Were you lying or just confused?
Sugar is more complex, has more energy, than CO2 and H2O.
Get it?

The only way you can increase complexity is by manipulating the genes

Plants don't need gene manipulation to make sugar.

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

The Australian sugar industry has been suffering from low world sugar prices over the past decade, increasingly competitive world markets for sugar, and the recent strengthening of the Australian dollar. Keating, Antony, Brennan, and Wegener (2002) suggested that the industry will need to diversify into other forms of value-added products to regain former levels of profitability, since productivity gains of the order of 2-3% per year are needed just to meet the cost-price squeeze faced by Australian farmers. Although existing lines of research made sugarcane production more efficient, a step up to new levels of profitability is needed in the industry—and that will depend on creating and applying new knowledge. Due to the potential for new alternative uses for cane, such as supplying high-value niche markets with a variety of products, Hildebrand (2002) also emphasized the need for further analyses into product diversification as a way of increasing industry returns.

A new Cooperative Research Center (CRC for Sugar Industry Innovation through Biotechnology) was created in July 2003. This collaborative research joint venture seeks to make sugarcane production more profitable through cane improvement and industry diversification through the application of biotechnology.

AgBioForum 6(4): Genetically Modified Sugarcane: A Case for Alternate Products

 

[Youwerecreated]

No. What does that have to do with your faulty claim that nothing on Earth can get more complex, because the Earth is a closed system?

They are different stages of the cycle right ? so why is an 18 year old more complex than a fertilized egg ? they are different stages of life.

so why is an 18 year old more complex than a fertilized egg ?

Does an 18 year old have more bones, more internal organs?

Your argument has been destroyed.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I'll admit, I know a lot more than you on the subject.
I realize, that's a very low bar you set.

You are the one stuttering and falling back on your sugar argument not realizing how sugar got more complex.

Sugar got more complex because the plant used energy.
The same way you got more complex, though no smarter, than when you were an egg.

Despite your claim that the Earth is a closed system, therefore things cannot get more complex, because the 2nd Law told you so.

Wrong it has always been getting sun and it got more complex due to gene manipulation,Through selective breeding or biotechnology.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Try that again, in English.

Getting new and beneficial genetic information early on that leads to a new and beneficial trait that makes us better adapted. It rarely happens and this is a problem for the theory of evolution.

BULLSHIT...Evolutionary Genetics

First published Fri Jan 14, 2005

Evolutionary genetics is the broad field of studies that resulted from the integration of genetics and Darwinian evolution, called the ‘modern synthesis’ (Huxley 1942), achieved through the theoretical works of R. A. Fisher, S. Wright, and J. B. S. Haldane and the conceptual works and influential writings of J. Huxley, T. Dobzhansky, and H.J. Muller. This field attempts to account for evolution in terms of changes in gene and genotype frequencies within populations and the processes that convert the variation with populations into more or less permanent variation between species. In this view, four evolutionary forces (mutation, random genetic drift, natural selection, and gene flow) acting within and among populations cause micro-evolutionary change and these processes are sufficient to account for macro-evolutionary patterns, which arise in the longer term from the collective action of these forces. That is, given very long periods of time, the micro-evolutionary forces will eventually give rise to the macro-evolutionary patterns that characterize the higher taxonomic groups. Thus, the central challenge of Evolutionary Genetics is to describe how the evolutionary forces shape the patterns of biodiversity observed in nature.

The force of mutation is the ultimate source of new genetic variation within populations. Although most mutations are neutral with no effect on fitness or harmful, some mutations have a small, positive effect on fitness and these variants are the raw materials for gradualistic adaptive evolution. Within finite populations, random genetic drift and natural selection affect the mutational variation. Natural selection is the only evolutionary force which can produce adaptation, the fit between organism and environment, or conserve genetic states over very long periods of time in the face of the dispersive forces of mutation and drift. The force of migration or gene flow has effects on genetic variation that are the opposite of those caused by random genetic drift. Migration limits the genetic divergence of populations and so impedes the process of speciation. The effect of each of these evolutionary forces on genetic variation within and among populations has been developed in great detail in the mathematical theory of population genetics founded on the seminal works of Fisher, Wright, and Haldane.

Among the evolutionary forces, natural selection has long been privileged in evolutionary studies because of its crucial role in adaptation. Ecological genetics is the study of evolutionary processes, especially adaptation by natural selection, in an ecological context in order to account for phenotypic patterns observed in nature. Where population genetics tends toward a branch of applied mathematics founded on Mendelian axioms, often with minimal contact with data, ecological genetics is grounded in the reciprocal interaction between mathematical theory and empirical observations from field and laboratory.
Evolutionary Genetics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Is this for 8th graders lol

 

[Youwerecreated]

Oh dang it's finally sinking in.

IF by sinking in that you are talking out your ass ,then yes it is..
if you mean coming around to your fucking nonsense then no..

Are you starved for attention.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

You said the Earth is a closed system, therefore the 2nd Law proves things can't get more complex on Earth.
Clearly you were incorrect.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

You said the Earth is a closed system, therefore the 2nd Law proves things can't get more complex on Earth.
Clearly you were incorrect.

No, clearly things of complexity were created on a planet that looked similar to other planets in our solar system.

Yes the earth is a closed system so the 2nd law does not apply to just the Isolated system.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

You said the Earth is a closed system, therefore the 2nd Law proves things can't get more complex on Earth.
Clearly you were incorrect.

No, clearly things of complexity were created on a planet that looked similar to other planet in our solar system.

Still drinking the bong water, I see.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

You said the Earth is a closed system, therefore the 2nd Law proves things can't get more complex on Earth.
Clearly you were incorrect.

No, clearly things of complexity were created on a planet that looked similar to other planet in our solar system.

Still drinking the bong water, I see.

I don't do recreational drugs ! still embarrassed ?

 

[orogenicman]

No, clearly things of complexity were created on a planet that looked similar to other planet in our solar system.

Still drinking the bong water, I see.

I don't do recreational drugs ! still embarrassed ?

What other planets are similar to the conditions we find on Earth? I don't know of any, and I suspect that if there were, our astrophysicists would be jumping up and down with joy.

But YWC, admitting that your affliction is natural (i.e., not the product of drinking bong water) may not be to your advantage. Just sayin...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No, clearly things of complexity were created on a planet that looked similar to other planet in our solar system.

Still drinking the bong water, I see.

I don't do recreational drugs ! still embarrassed ?

Yes, your ignorance is embarrassing.