Why is naturalism considered scientific and creationism is not ?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Still drinking the bong water, I see.

I don't do recreational drugs ! still embarrassed ?

What other planets are similar to the conditions we find on Earth? I don't know of any, and I suspect that if there were, our astrophysicists would be jumping up and down with joy.

But YWC, admitting that your affliction is natural (i.e., not the product of drinking bong water) may not be to your advantage. Just sayin...

Some people, when they sober up, stop saying stupid things.

I guess he's stuck like that for life.

 

[daws101]

Really scientists are confused ? they even made arguments to support the view the earth is a closed system that I have not seen a rebuttal to.

You brought it up explain the increase in complexity in sugar ? why did you change the subject ?

The only way you can increase complexity is by manipulating the genes that does not happen naturally got it ?

Really scientists are confused ?

No, you are confused. Not scientists. Just you.

You brought it up explain the increase in complexity in sugar ?

What? You said the 2nd Law makes increased complexity impossible.
Were you lying or just confused?
Sugar is more complex, has more energy, than CO2 and H2O.
Get it?

The only way you can increase complexity is by manipulating the genes

Plants don't need gene manipulation to make sugar.

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

The Australian sugar industry has been suffering from low world sugar prices over the past decade, increasingly competitive world markets for sugar, and the recent strengthening of the Australian dollar. Keating, Antony, Brennan, and Wegener (2002) suggested that the industry will need to diversify into other forms of value-added products to regain former levels of profitability, since productivity gains of the order of 2-3% per year are needed just to meet the cost-price squeeze faced by Australian farmers. Although existing lines of research made sugarcane production more efficient, a step up to new levels of profitability is needed in the industry—and that will depend on creating and applying new knowledge. Due to the potential for new alternative uses for cane, such as supplying high-value niche markets with a variety of products, Hildebrand (2002) also emphasized the need for further analyses into product diversification as a way of increasing industry returns.

A new Cooperative Research Center (CRC for Sugar Industry Innovation through Biotechnology) was created in July 2003. This collaborative research joint venture seeks to make sugarcane production more profitable through cane improvement and industry diversification through the application of biotechnology.

AgBioForum 6(4): Genetically Modified Sugarcane: A Case for Alternate Products

he's not talking about cane sugar slapdick...

 

[daws101]

They are different stages of the cycle right ? so why is an 18 year old more complex than a fertilized egg ? they are different stages of life.

so why is an 18 year old more complex than a fertilized egg ?

Does an 18 year old have more bones, more internal organs?

Your argument has been destroyed.

it has? by who?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Really scientists are confused ?

No, you are confused. Not scientists. Just you.

You brought it up explain the increase in complexity in sugar ?

What? You said the 2nd Law makes increased complexity impossible.
Were you lying or just confused?
Sugar is more complex, has more energy, than CO2 and H2O.
Get it?

The only way you can increase complexity is by manipulating the genes

Plants don't need gene manipulation to make sugar.

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

The Australian sugar industry has been suffering from low world sugar prices over the past decade, increasingly competitive world markets for sugar, and the recent strengthening of the Australian dollar. Keating, Antony, Brennan, and Wegener (2002) suggested that the industry will need to diversify into other forms of value-added products to regain former levels of profitability, since productivity gains of the order of 2-3% per year are needed just to meet the cost-price squeeze faced by Australian farmers. Although existing lines of research made sugarcane production more efficient, a step up to new levels of profitability is needed in the industry—and that will depend on creating and applying new knowledge. Due to the potential for new alternative uses for cane, such as supplying high-value niche markets with a variety of products, Hildebrand (2002) also emphasized the need for further analyses into product diversification as a way of increasing industry returns.

A new Cooperative Research Center (CRC for Sugar Industry Innovation through Biotechnology) was created in July 2003. This collaborative research joint venture seeks to make sugarcane production more profitable through cane improvement and industry diversification through the application of biotechnology.

AgBioForum 6(4): Genetically Modified Sugarcane: A Case for Alternate Products

he's not talking about cane sugar slapdick...

Is he confusing complexity with productivity in that silly post?

 

[daws101]

Getting new and beneficial genetic information early on that leads to a new and beneficial trait that makes us better adapted. It rarely happens and this is a problem for the theory of evolution.

BULLSHIT...Evolutionary Genetics

First published Fri Jan 14, 2005

Evolutionary genetics is the broad field of studies that resulted from the integration of genetics and Darwinian evolution, called the ‘modern synthesis’ (Huxley 1942), achieved through the theoretical works of R. A. Fisher, S. Wright, and J. B. S. Haldane and the conceptual works and influential writings of J. Huxley, T. Dobzhansky, and H.J. Muller. This field attempts to account for evolution in terms of changes in gene and genotype frequencies within populations and the processes that convert the variation with populations into more or less permanent variation between species. In this view, four evolutionary forces (mutation, random genetic drift, natural selection, and gene flow) acting within and among populations cause micro-evolutionary change and these processes are sufficient to account for macro-evolutionary patterns, which arise in the longer term from the collective action of these forces. That is, given very long periods of time, the micro-evolutionary forces will eventually give rise to the macro-evolutionary patterns that characterize the higher taxonomic groups. Thus, the central challenge of Evolutionary Genetics is to describe how the evolutionary forces shape the patterns of biodiversity observed in nature.

The force of mutation is the ultimate source of new genetic variation within populations. Although most mutations are neutral with no effect on fitness or harmful, some mutations have a small, positive effect on fitness and these variants are the raw materials for gradualistic adaptive evolution. Within finite populations, random genetic drift and natural selection affect the mutational variation. Natural selection is the only evolutionary force which can produce adaptation, the fit between organism and environment, or conserve genetic states over very long periods of time in the face of the dispersive forces of mutation and drift. The force of migration or gene flow has effects on genetic variation that are the opposite of those caused by random genetic drift. Migration limits the genetic divergence of populations and so impedes the process of speciation. The effect of each of these evolutionary forces on genetic variation within and among populations has been developed in great detail in the mathematical theory of population genetics founded on the seminal works of Fisher, Wright, and Haldane.

Among the evolutionary forces, natural selection has long been privileged in evolutionary studies because of its crucial role in adaptation. Ecological genetics is the study of evolutionary processes, especially adaptation by natural selection, in an ecological context in order to account for phenotypic patterns observed in nature. Where population genetics tends toward a branch of applied mathematics founded on Mendelian axioms, often with minimal contact with data, ecological genetics is grounded in the reciprocal interaction between mathematical theory and empirical observations from field and laboratory.
Evolutionary Genetics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Is this for 8th graders lol

your childish retort certainly is ..
the material is college and grad school.

 

[Hollie]

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

You said the Earth is a closed system, therefore the 2nd Law proves things can't get more complex on Earth.
Clearly you were incorrect.

No, clearly things of complexity were created on a planet that looked similar to other planets in our solar system.

Yes the earth is a closed system so the 2nd law does not apply to just the Isolated system.

That's true. Things of complexity were created on a planet by magic.

"Magic" has always been a convenient answer for natural events that were not understood.

 

[Youwerecreated]

BULLSHIT...Evolutionary Genetics

First published Fri Jan 14, 2005

Evolutionary genetics is the broad field of studies that resulted from the integration of genetics and Darwinian evolution, called the ‘modern synthesis’ (Huxley 1942), achieved through the theoretical works of R. A. Fisher, S. Wright, and J. B. S. Haldane and the conceptual works and influential writings of J. Huxley, T. Dobzhansky, and H.J. Muller. This field attempts to account for evolution in terms of changes in gene and genotype frequencies within populations and the processes that convert the variation with populations into more or less permanent variation between species. In this view, four evolutionary forces (mutation, random genetic drift, natural selection, and gene flow) acting within and among populations cause micro-evolutionary change and these processes are sufficient to account for macro-evolutionary patterns, which arise in the longer term from the collective action of these forces. That is, given very long periods of time, the micro-evolutionary forces will eventually give rise to the macro-evolutionary patterns that characterize the higher taxonomic groups. Thus, the central challenge of Evolutionary Genetics is to describe how the evolutionary forces shape the patterns of biodiversity observed in nature.

The force of mutation is the ultimate source of new genetic variation within populations. Although most mutations are neutral with no effect on fitness or harmful, some mutations have a small, positive effect on fitness and these variants are the raw materials for gradualistic adaptive evolution. Within finite populations, random genetic drift and natural selection affect the mutational variation. Natural selection is the only evolutionary force which can produce adaptation, the fit between organism and environment, or conserve genetic states over very long periods of time in the face of the dispersive forces of mutation and drift. The force of migration or gene flow has effects on genetic variation that are the opposite of those caused by random genetic drift. Migration limits the genetic divergence of populations and so impedes the process of speciation. The effect of each of these evolutionary forces on genetic variation within and among populations has been developed in great detail in the mathematical theory of population genetics founded on the seminal works of Fisher, Wright, and Haldane.

Among the evolutionary forces, natural selection has long been privileged in evolutionary studies because of its crucial role in adaptation. Ecological genetics is the study of evolutionary processes, especially adaptation by natural selection, in an ecological context in order to account for phenotypic patterns observed in nature. Where population genetics tends toward a branch of applied mathematics founded on Mendelian axioms, often with minimal contact with data, ecological genetics is grounded in the reciprocal interaction between mathematical theory and empirical observations from field and laboratory.
Evolutionary Genetics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Is this for 8th graders lol

your childish retort certainly is ..
the material is college and grad school.

Just because it has the name of Stanford attached to it

 

[Youwerecreated]

Still drinking the bong water, I see.

I don't do recreational drugs ! still embarrassed ?

What other planets are similar to the conditions we find on Earth? I don't know of any, and I suspect that if there were, our astrophysicists would be jumping up and down with joy.

But YWC, admitting that your affliction is natural (i.e., not the product of drinking bong water) may not be to your advantage. Just sayin...

Because earth was once without form and water,that is why this planet is unique.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Really scientists are confused ?

No, you are confused. Not scientists. Just you.

You brought it up explain the increase in complexity in sugar ?

What? You said the 2nd Law makes increased complexity impossible.
Were you lying or just confused?
Sugar is more complex, has more energy, than CO2 and H2O.
Get it?

The only way you can increase complexity is by manipulating the genes

Plants don't need gene manipulation to make sugar.

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

The Australian sugar industry has been suffering from low world sugar prices over the past decade, increasingly competitive world markets for sugar, and the recent strengthening of the Australian dollar. Keating, Antony, Brennan, and Wegener (2002) suggested that the industry will need to diversify into other forms of value-added products to regain former levels of profitability, since productivity gains of the order of 2-3% per year are needed just to meet the cost-price squeeze faced by Australian farmers. Although existing lines of research made sugarcane production more efficient, a step up to new levels of profitability is needed in the industry—and that will depend on creating and applying new knowledge. Due to the potential for new alternative uses for cane, such as supplying high-value niche markets with a variety of products, Hildebrand (2002) also emphasized the need for further analyses into product diversification as a way of increasing industry returns.

A new Cooperative Research Center (CRC for Sugar Industry Innovation through Biotechnology) was created in July 2003. This collaborative research joint venture seeks to make sugarcane production more profitable through cane improvement and industry diversification through the application of biotechnology.

AgBioForum 6(4): Genetically Modified Sugarcane: A Case for Alternate Products

he's not talking about cane sugar slapdick...

Then explain to me what kind of sugar he is speaking of ? and how it gained in complexity.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

The Australian sugar industry has been suffering from low world sugar prices over the past decade, increasingly competitive world markets for sugar, and the recent strengthening of the Australian dollar. Keating, Antony, Brennan, and Wegener (2002) suggested that the industry will need to diversify into other forms of value-added products to regain former levels of profitability, since productivity gains of the order of 2-3% per year are needed just to meet the cost-price squeeze faced by Australian farmers. Although existing lines of research made sugarcane production more efficient, a step up to new levels of profitability is needed in the industry—and that will depend on creating and applying new knowledge. Due to the potential for new alternative uses for cane, such as supplying high-value niche markets with a variety of products, Hildebrand (2002) also emphasized the need for further analyses into product diversification as a way of increasing industry returns.

A new Cooperative Research Center (CRC for Sugar Industry Innovation through Biotechnology) was created in July 2003. This collaborative research joint venture seeks to make sugarcane production more profitable through cane improvement and industry diversification through the application of biotechnology.

AgBioForum 6(4): Genetically Modified Sugarcane: A Case for Alternate Products

he's not talking about cane sugar slapdick...

Is he confusing complexity with productivity in that silly post?

What sugar are you speaking of ? how does it gain in complexity ?

 

[Hollie]

I don't do recreational drugs ! still embarrassed ?

What other planets are similar to the conditions we find on Earth? I don't know of any, and I suspect that if there were, our astrophysicists would be jumping up and down with joy.

But YWC, admitting that your affliction is natural (i.e., not the product of drinking bong water) may not be to your advantage. Just sayin...

Because earth was once without form and water,that is why this planet is unique.

Appeals to magic.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So what's your point concerning sugar ?

The Australian sugar industry has been suffering from low world sugar prices over the past decade, increasingly competitive world markets for sugar, and the recent strengthening of the Australian dollar. Keating, Antony, Brennan, and Wegener (2002) suggested that the industry will need to diversify into other forms of value-added products to regain former levels of profitability, since productivity gains of the order of 2-3% per year are needed just to meet the cost-price squeeze faced by Australian farmers. Although existing lines of research made sugarcane production more efficient, a step up to new levels of profitability is needed in the industry—and that will depend on creating and applying new knowledge. Due to the potential for new alternative uses for cane, such as supplying high-value niche markets with a variety of products, Hildebrand (2002) also emphasized the need for further analyses into product diversification as a way of increasing industry returns.

A new Cooperative Research Center (CRC for Sugar Industry Innovation through Biotechnology) was created in July 2003. This collaborative research joint venture seeks to make sugarcane production more profitable through cane improvement and industry diversification through the application of biotechnology.

AgBioForum 6(4): Genetically Modified Sugarcane: A Case for Alternate Products

he's not talking about cane sugar slapdick...

Is he confusing complexity with productivity in that silly post?

So increasing productivity through genetic engineering is not increasing complexity ? if there is a new function,trait,mechanism produced your side would consider that evolution and an increase in complexity.

 

[Youwerecreated]

What other planets are similar to the conditions we find on Earth? I don't know of any, and I suspect that if there were, our astrophysicists would be jumping up and down with joy.

But YWC, admitting that your affliction is natural (i.e., not the product of drinking bong water) may not be to your advantage. Just sayin...

Because earth was once without form and water,that is why this planet is unique.

Appeals to magic.

It does not cause you to pause that the sun and moon are conveniently located? That all the matter and ingredients needed for life once again found their way to earth ? All that water found it's way to earth. Then conveniently we have a water cycle that waters the earth.

I don't appeal to magic, your side does.

 

[Hollie]

Because earth was once without form and water,that is why this planet is unique.

Appeals to magic.

It does not cause you to pause that the sun and moon are conveniently located? That all the matter and ingredients needed for life once again found their way to earth ? All that water found it's way to earth. Then conveniently we have a water cycle that waters the earth.

I don't appeal to magic, your side does.

I actually think it's wonderful that men in robes wearing long, flowing beards snapped their eternal digits and magically created all of existence.

Too bad this must have been their first try. There is so much they got horribly wrong, I'm waiting for gods more competent than yours to come along and get it right.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Appeals to magic.

It does not cause you to pause that the sun and moon are conveniently located? That all the matter and ingredients needed for life once again found their way to earth ? All that water found it's way to earth. Then conveniently we have a water cycle that waters the earth.

I don't appeal to magic, your side does.

I actually think it's wonderful that men in robes wearing long, flowing beards snapped their eternal digits and magically created all of existence.

Too bad this must have been their first try. There is so much they got horribly wrong, I'm waiting for gods more competent than yours to come along and get it right.

I take it back you appeal to imagination.

 

[Hollie]

It does not cause you to pause that the sun and moon are conveniently located? That all the matter and ingredients needed for life once again found their way to earth ? All that water found it's way to earth. Then conveniently we have a water cycle that waters the earth.

I don't appeal to magic, your side does.

I actually think it's wonderful that men in robes wearing long, flowing beards snapped their eternal digits and magically created all of existence.

Too bad this must have been their first try. There is so much they got horribly wrong, I'm waiting for gods more competent than yours to come along and get it right.

I take it back you appeal to imagination.

It's not surprising to see you backpedaling on earlier comments.

It's your side who has invented gods in your own image. It's not at all uncommon. You can try this at home - take a look at the historical gods invented by different cultures and civilizations. Those gods were so often a reflection of the cultures and civilizations which created them.

Isn't it great that western portrayals of the hey-Zeus are of a very tall, Caucasian looking guy?

Making the gods in our own image. Don't you find it convenient (and a bit more conceited),to worship a long-haired hippie in sandals vs. a chubby Buddha?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I actually think it's wonderful that men in robes wearing long, flowing beards snapped their eternal digits and magically created all of existence.

Too bad this must have been their first try. There is so much they got horribly wrong, I'm waiting for gods more competent than yours to come along and get it right.

I take it back you appeal to imagination.

It's not surprising to see you backpedaling on earlier comments.

It's your side who has invented gods in your own image. It's not at all uncommon. You can try this at home - take a look at the historical gods invented by different cultures and civilizations. Those gods were so often a reflection of the cultures and civilizations which created them.

Isn't it great that western portrayals of the hey-Zeus are of a very tall, Caucasian looking guy?

Making the gods in our own image. Don't you find it convenient (and a bit more conceited),to worship a long-haired hippie in sandals vs. a chubby Buddha?

Sorry but YAHWEH has been around since mans beginning and before all other false gods that were an invention. Who said Jesus had long hair ?

Once again you do not know what you are talking about.



1 Corinthians 11:14-15

Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering

Judges 16:17

And he told her all his heart, and said to her, “A razor has never come upon my head, for I have been a Nazirite to God from my mother's womb. If my head is shaved, then my strength will leave me, and I shall become weak and be like any other man.”

 

[Hollie]

I take it back you appeal to imagination.

It's not surprising to see you backpedaling on earlier comments.

It's your side who has invented gods in your own image. It's not at all uncommon. You can try this at home - take a look at the historical gods invented by different cultures and civilizations. Those gods were so often a reflection of the cultures and civilizations which created them.

Isn't it great that western portrayals of the hey-Zeus are of a very tall, Caucasian looking guy?

Making the gods in our own image. Don't you find it convenient (and a bit more conceited),to worship a long-haired hippie in sandals vs. a chubby Buddha?

Sorry but YAHWEH has been around since mans beginning and before all other false gods that were an invention. Who said Jesus had long hair ?

Once again you do not know what you are talking about.

1 Corinthians 11:14

Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,

1 Corinthians 11:14-15

Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering

Judges 16:17

And he told her all his heart, and said to her, “A razor has never come upon my head, for I have been a Nazirite to God from my mother's womb. If my head is shaved, then my strength will leave me, and I shall become weak and be like any other man.”

As usual, you waver, waffle and sidestep. Thumping your bibles will not help you cover your tracks. The various, unknown authors of the bibles were simply describing their cultural norms.

Why do you think Western conceptions of the hey-Zeus depict an individual with physical features very Western-like and utterly unlike someone of midde Eastern ancestry?

The fact is, there were many gods and many inventions of supernatural agents prior to the invention of your gods. Most of those earlier religions are now gone as many gods have been replaced by a few, one stop shopping gods of convenience.

How interesting that had you been born in the east, you would be on this board, thumping a completely book of completely different gods.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

he's not talking about cane sugar slapdick...

Is he confusing complexity with productivity in that silly post?

What sugar are you speaking of ? how does it gain in complexity ?

Photosynthesis. Plants take CO2 and H2O and with the energy from sunlight, produce sugar.

Sugar is more complex than CO2 and H2O. Get it?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Is he confusing complexity with productivity in that silly post?

What sugar are you speaking of ? how does it gain in complexity ?

Photosynthesis. Plants take CO2 and H2O and with the energy from sunlight, produce sugar.

Sugar is more complex than CO2 and H2O. Get it?

This argument is worse than the one I thought you were making.

This is just part of the carbon cycle. The carbon cycle would not exist without Photosynthesis but Photosynthesis is only responsible for building part of the carbon cycle.Photosynthesis is responsible for processing oxygen as well.

Photosynthetic cells found in green plants, during the cycle of photosynthesis, these cells use C02 and the suns energy to make the sugar molecules and 02 you have went on about. These sugar molecules are used to produce molecules through a photosynthetic cell, such as glucose.


Just one part of many in a cycle. You seem to use a natural cycle for the basis of your argument for increasing complexity which is nonsense. What produced these cells ? and started the cycle ?