Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"?

[GreenBean]

Conversion therapy (also known as reparative therapy) is a range of treatments that aim to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Such treatments have been criticized for being pseudo-scientific.
Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The major premise of conversion therapy advocates is that majority of homosexuals are NOT genetically pre-disposed but a learned behavior.

So if the gay community believes so strongly that there is a "I gotta be me" genetic coding that pre-disposes a person to homosexuality why are they so afraid?

So afraid that "conversion therapy aimed at turning gay kids straight will soon be illegal in California, with the state's governor declaring he hopes a new law will relegate such efforts "to the dustbin of quackery."
This bill bans non-scientific 'therapies' that have driven young people to depression and suicide," Brown tweeted. "These practices have no basis in science or medicine."
California governor OKs ban on gay conversion therapy, calling it 'quackery' - CNN.com

Why is there such angst about something that a gay MUST be?

I have NO doubt some "suicides" but HOW MANY ? Where are the facts Mr. Brown?

People are gay for two reasons:
1) they truly were born with a genetic pre-disposition to homosexuality
2) The behavior is learned.

Those are the ONLY two ways that a homosexual IS a homosexual.

I would like anyone to refute that.

As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.

Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior.

Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:

Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.

A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions" - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure

Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts, and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.

Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth.

So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"

It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated. If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.

Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality

NARTH is a religiously motivated, propagandist organization that has zero credibility in the world of psychology.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/queer-science

National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the Wiki:

Position of professional organizations on sexual orientation change efforts
Main article: Sexual orientation change efforts

In 2009 an American Psychological Association research summary[29] included the following statements:

The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.

SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] has been controversial due to tensions between the values held by some faith-based organizations, on the one hand, and those held by lesbian, gay and bisexual rights organizations and professional and scientific organizations, on the other.

There are no studies of adequate scientific rigor to conclude whether recent SOCE do work to change a person’s sexual orientation.

Some individuals and groups have promoted the idea of homosexuality as symptomatic of developmental defects or spiritual and moral failings and have argued that SOCE, including psychotherapy and religious efforts, could alter homosexual feelings and behaviors. Many of these individuals and groups appeared to be embedded within the larger context of conservative religious political movements that have supported the stigmatization of homosexuality on political or religious grounds.

No major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and most of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. These include the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American Counseling Association, National Association of Social Workers in the USA,[30] Royal College of Psychiatrists,[31] and Australian Psychological Society.[32]

The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.[31][33]

The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.

They simply took the arguments directed against the APA and surplanted NARTH in it's place - that entire article is one the most brazen and blatant pseudo- scientific shitfests i've ever seen vomitted onto this board

Nicholas Cummings, former President of the American Psychological Association and one of the people who led the movement to have homosexuality declassified as a mental illness speaking to an audience of fellow professionals in 2005, stated the profession of Mental Health, psychology, psychiatry is dominated by social-activist groups. Dr. Cummings stated that he has had a life long commitment to promoting diversity, and has been appalled to see activists commandeer organizations such as the APA to further their own social agenda.

As per Dr. Cummings, when the APA conducts research, they do so only "when they know what the outcome is going to be...only predictably favorable outcomes are permissible."
Beginning in the late 60s, homosexual activist groups began lobbying leading psychiatric organizations to lay the groundwork for the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder. Dr. Cummings in offering his proposal to declassify homosexuality as a Mental Disorder, stated

I made the resolution that being gay was not a mental illness, that it was characterological,.... I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research.

Dr. Rogers Wright, Cummings partner and co author of Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm stated that "psychology has been ultra-liberal" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association since they instituted a decision not to respond to their book in an effort to deny publicity for it. The APA actually banned the book and prohibited its members from reviewing or commenting on it. "So much for diversity and open-mindedness," Wright added.

American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays

 

[Inevitable]

GreenBean I realize you are new , but kindly familiarize with the use of quotes and quote boxes , you have them somewhat fouled up -I know what I said - you know what you said but - this is an open forum and others may be a tad confused.

Inevitable: I don't think anybody is going to be confused

GreenBean The problem is you don't Think - period.

GreenBean You state you have no claim to prove - but you do - and apparently are unable to - see you're learning newby , in no time what so ever you'll be just another cynical clueless left wing asshole - completely confortable wit the art of deflecting.

Inevitable: Hyperbole is a logical fallacy.

GreenBean Sonny Boy - hiding behind $5 words that you heard your teacher use does not drive a point home

-------------------

GreenBean You state - "No I did not make any claim. I simply challenged yours." but you did make a few unsubtantiated claims such as the improper use of the word "Dysphoria"

Inevitable: Really the term "sexual disphoria" it means you are unwell with your sex. I adressed that claim, you just didn't like it.

NOW - GreenBean I presented factual evidence , you presented your opinion little boy - now go back and ask your teacher the difference between fact and opinion and see if the academia nut you took lessons from can give you some more $5 words to hide behind.

Inevitable:Yes, in those links there were no studies referenced. I read some claims but I saw no proof of them.

NOW - GreenBean Obviously you didn't read them, and you are once again practicing deflection - like your boyfriend Howey -why let facts get in the way of your Opinons ?


Inevitable: Lastly I don't buy that the Apa was taken over by homosexuals. That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. You have anything to prove that claim?

GreenBean Yup again and again it's been presented - but presenting proof to someone who refuses to back up his own opinions ,tries to present them as fact is an absolute waste of my time - I'm not your fucking errand boy ! You can'tbackupyour statements - so take a hike troll

You presented an extremely paranoid conspiracy theory. I need a little more than the word of the nutcase that came up with it to believe that crap. Sorry. You have nothing you presented nothing but fallacy. Now add some ad hominem.

If your paranoid delusions were really real you wouldn't need to call me a troll.

Prove your case, it should be able to stand on it's own.

okay faggot -but if you can't present anything other than your assinine opinons from here on in -then STFU !

Here's something from Dr. Nicholas Cummings, a former president of the APA and also the man who authored the motion back in 70s to have Homosexuality removed from the DSM ... [Or actually it wasn't completely removed - just reclassified as "Sexual Dysphoria Disorder" ]

Nicholas Cummings, former President of the American Psychological Association and one of the people who led the movement to have homosexuality declassified as a mental illness speaking to an audience of fellow professionals in 2005, stated the profession of Mental Health, psychology, psychiatry is dominated by social-activist groups. Dr. Cummings stated that he has had a life long commitment to promoting diversity, and has been appalled to see activists commandeer organizations such as the APA to further their own social agenda.

As per Dr. Cummings, when the APA conducts research, they do so only "when they know what the outcome is going to be...only predictably favorable outcomes are permissible."
Beginning in the late 60s, homosexual activist groups began lobbying leading psychiatric organizations to lay the groundwork for the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder. Dr. Cummings in offering his proposal to declassify homosexuality as a Mental Disorder, stated

I made the resolution that being gay was not a mental illness, that it was characterological,.... I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research.

Dr. Rogers Wright, Cummings partner and co author of Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm stated that "psychology has been ultra-liberal" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association since they instituted a decision not to respond to their book in an effort to deny publicity for it. The APA actually banned the book and prohibited its members from reviewing or commenting on it. "So much for diversity and open-mindedness," Wright added.

American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays

Even the US Congress , in one of its more sane movements Censured the APA in the case known as The Rind Controversy ... this may be the first time in US history that the legislative branch of the federal government has officially condemned and censured a scientific publication, unless the socio-fascists completely take over the Government - which is the direction we seem to be headed - it shant be the last .

In a related issue - In a letter to the APA, past and current presidents of the Society for the Scientific Study of Sex strongly objected to the APA’s politicized pseudo-science - , saying that it “cast a chill on all such research” and that in order to solve serious social problems, the search for accurate information must be protected from political considerations and pressures

Related Materials:
http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-017_politics_of_csa.htm

http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-018_uproar.htm

the tinfoil hat links you posted aren't credible.

 

[Inevitable]

As is generally the case the OP on this thread has strayed off in several different directions. The OP being Conversion therapy.

Conversion therapy, Ex Gay or reparative therapy is primarily promoted by the mental health organization, NARTH. NARTH teaches that homosexuality is abnormal, unnatural,undesirable and changeable sexual behavior.

Complete data on conversion theapy is quite often withheld or suppressed. This makes the actual success rate of conversion therapy difficult to guage with any real degree of accuracy. However, several studies have revealed sufficient data which can be utilized to arrive at crude estimate of the conversion success rate:

Studies on conversion therapy for unwanted homosexual attractions yield varying success rates, ranging from 30%-70%, these rates are no different than success rates for other therapeutic practices - However the other therapeutic practices, such as substance abuse and assorted phobias and fetishes are not politically incorrect - criticizing the Gay Agenda and lifestyle is.

A key word in the preceding statement is "unwanted homosexual attractions" - as is the case with other therapeutic practices - treating somebody who doesn't want to be treated and believes they are confortable with their malady is statistically doomed to failure

Being politically charged , politically correct science [Bad Science] will frequently totally disregard the facts, and the agenda of he who shouts the loudest wins.

Socio-Fascists are currently blatantly promoting homosexuality, it is surmised as part of Big Brothers concerted effort to expedite the disintegration of the family structure and reduce the surplus population/ curtail population growth.

So Why is the gay community afraid of "conversion therapy"

It is an admission that their sexual dysphoria -homosexuality is abnormal and something which needs to be treated. If there is no disease , there should not be a need for a cure .
The succes of Conversion Therapy, is the failure of the Gay Agenda - it flies in the face of their ideological agenda and propaganda.

Conversion Therapy is far from the voo-doo quackery preached by the politically correct socio-fascists and useful idiots - it is a viable and effective method of treating a psychologiocally degenerative disease - Homosexuality

NARTH is a religiously motivated, propagandist organization that has zero credibility in the world of psychology.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/queer-science

National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the Wiki:

They simply took the arguments directed against the APA and surplanted NARTH in it's place - that entire article is one the most brazen and blatant pseudo- scientific shitfests i've ever seen vomitted onto this board

Nicholas Cummings, former President of the American Psychological Association and one of the people who led the movement to have homosexuality declassified as a mental illness speaking to an audience of fellow professionals in 2005, stated the profession of Mental Health, psychology, psychiatry is dominated by social-activist groups. Dr. Cummings stated that he has had a life long commitment to promoting diversity, and has been appalled to see activists commandeer organizations such as the APA to further their own social agenda.

As per Dr. Cummings, when the APA conducts research, they do so only "when they know what the outcome is going to be...only predictably favorable outcomes are permissible."
Beginning in the late 60s, homosexual activist groups began lobbying leading psychiatric organizations to lay the groundwork for the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder. Dr. Cummings in offering his proposal to declassify homosexuality as a Mental Disorder, stated

I made the resolution that being gay was not a mental illness, that it was characterological,.... I also said with that, that the APA, if it passes this resolution, will also vote to continue research that demonstrates whatever the research demonstrates. Unbiased, open research.

Dr. Rogers Wright, Cummings partner and co author of Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm stated that "psychology has been ultra-liberal" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association since they instituted a decision not to respond to their book in an effort to deny publicity for it. The APA actually banned the book and prohibited its members from reviewing or commenting on it. "So much for diversity and open-mindedness," Wright added.

American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays

Narth isn't credible. They can't list any real pathology related to homosexuality.

 

[GreenBean]

You presented an extremely paranoid conspiracy theory. I need a little more than the word of the nutcase that came up with it to believe that crap. Sorry. You have nothing you presented nothing but fallacy. Now add some ad hominem.

If your paranoid delusions were really real you wouldn't need to call me a troll.

Prove your case, it should be able to stand on it's own.

okay faggot -but if you can't present anything other than your assinine opinons from here on in -then STFU !

Here's something from Dr. Nicholas Cummings, a former president of the APA and also the man who authored the motion back in 70s to have Homosexuality removed from the DSM ... [Or actually it wasn't completely removed - just reclassified as "Sexual Dysphoria Disorder" ]

Nicholas Cummings, former President of the American Psychological Association and one of the people who led the movement to have homosexuality declassified as a mental illness speaking to an audience of fellow professionals in 2005, stated the profession of Mental Health, psychology, psychiatry is dominated by social-activist groups. Dr. Cummings stated that he has had a life long commitment to promoting diversity, and has been appalled to see activists commandeer organizations such as the APA to further their own social agenda.

As per Dr. Cummings, when the APA conducts research, they do so only "when they know what the outcome is going to be...only predictably favorable outcomes are permissible."
Beginning in the late 60s, homosexual activist groups began lobbying leading psychiatric organizations to lay the groundwork for the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder. Dr. Cummings in offering his proposal to declassify homosexuality as a Mental Disorder, stated



Dr. Rogers Wright, Cummings partner and co author of Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm stated that "psychology has been ultra-liberal" Wright described the difficulties he has encountered with the American Psychological Association since they instituted a decision not to respond to their book in an effort to deny publicity for it. The APA actually banned the book and prohibited its members from reviewing or commenting on it. "So much for diversity and open-mindedness," Wright added.

American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays

Even the US Congress , in one of its more sane movements Censured the APA in the case known as The Rind Controversy ... this may be the first time in US history that the legislative branch of the federal government has officially condemned and censured a scientific publication, unless the socio-fascists completely take over the Government - which is the direction we seem to be headed - it shant be the last .

In a related issue - In a letter to the APA, past and current presidents of the Society for the Scientific Study of Sex strongly objected to the APA’s politicized pseudo-science - , saying that it “cast a chill on all such research” and that in order to solve serious social problems, the search for accurate information must be protected from political considerations and pressures

Related Materials:
http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-017_politics_of_csa.htm

http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-018_uproar.htm

the tinfoil hat links you posted aren't credible.

STFU - You have no argument -the information from the IPCE site is peer reviewed , the info regarding the congressionial censure is verifiable news -if you had half a brain you'd simply google "Rind Controversy" THe APA Article is mirrored in similar format on multiple sites - if you had half a brain you could simply google Nicholas Cummings.

Get the penis pipe ouuta your mouth jerk off - and I do apologize for the comment in my previous post about your academia nut teacher - I was wrong you are definitely not college material , and certainly not worth my wasting any more time off C YA

 

[Inevitable]

okay faggot -but if you can't present anything other than your assinine opinons from here on in -then STFU !

Here's something from Dr. Nicholas Cummings, a former president of the APA and also the man who authored the motion back in 70s to have Homosexuality removed from the DSM ... [Or actually it wasn't completely removed - just reclassified as "Sexual Dysphoria Disorder" ]



Even the US Congress , in one of its more sane movements Censured the APA in the case known as The Rind Controversy ... this may be the first time in US history that the legislative branch of the federal government has officially condemned and censured a scientific publication, unless the socio-fascists completely take over the Government - which is the direction we seem to be headed - it shant be the last .

In a related issue - In a letter to the APA, past and current presidents of the Society for the Scientific Study of Sex strongly objected to the APA’s politicized pseudo-science - , saying that it “cast a chill on all such research” and that in order to solve serious social problems, the search for accurate information must be protected from political considerations and pressures

Related Materials:
http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-017_politics_of_csa.htm

http://www.ipce.info/ipceweb/Library/00-018_uproar.htm

the tinfoil hat links you posted aren't credible.

STFU - You have no argument -the information from the IPCE site is peer reviewed , the info regarding the congressionial censure is verifiable news -if you had half a brain you'd simply google "Rind Controversy" THe APA Article is mirrored in similar format on multiple sites - if you had helf a brain you could simply google Nicholas Cummings.

It doesn't prove men from mars or what ever you have convinced yourself has taken over the APA really has.

Get the penis pipe ouuta your mouth jerk off - and I do apologize for the comment in my previous post about your academia nut teacher - I was wrong you are definitely not college material , and certainly not worth my wasting any more time off C YA

All you have is childish insults? I guess when you don't have anythingto back up your delusions and get called out on them that is what you have to fall back on

You are utterly obsessed with this, look at your signature. Why "us homosexuality such abig deal to you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) like a hot knife through butter.

Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.

 

[Inevitable]

Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.

Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.

I have ran into that assclown on other forums that he was subsequently removed from.

I just enjoy beating the argument.

 

[GreenBean]

Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.

Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.

Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable, is because you make everybody else look so smart

Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect

 

[emilynghiem]

Sorry CCJ
But I know of too many teenagers kicked out of houses, on the streets, ending up in prostitution or drugs to survive, because they didn't get support to deal with these issues!

Why don't you talk to the parents of a 12 year old who shot himself dead, over a mix of gay issues, bullying at school, and his divorced parents that overwhelmed him.

This young man was WELL LOVED, had lots of support of friends and his parents who adored and accepted him, and it still wasn't enough when he lost his will to live.

Leaving young people "alone" is not enough! Heck, I know full grown adults who can't cope with multiple issues and need connection to counsel through so they don't lose it.

Yes, you are. California and New Jersey said you can't make kids go to this harmful "therapy"...adults are free to fuck themselves up if they choose to.

But kids CAN be "counseled" on how to feel good about themselves despite being attracted to the same sex? That is the point.

And this is an example of the ignorance associated with the myth of “conversion therapy"; gay minors don’t need to be ‘counseled’ to ‘feel good’ about being gay, as if it were some sort of ‘disability.’

Given love, support, and guidance by their parents, young gay persons are perfecting capable of being happy as gay individuals and grow to be happy, well adjusted gay adults, secure and confident in who they are.

Indeed, if there’s any need for gay minors to receive counseling, it’s as a consequence of being subjected to the ignorance and hate of those hostile to gay Americans, where gay young people are being told the lie that there’s ‘something wrong’ with them and they need ‘therapy,’ when in fact there is not, that in fact they are just as normal and just as healthy as heterosexual young people.

The best thing that can be done to ‘help’ young gay persons is the simply leave them alone.

 

[Inevitable]

Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable, is because you make everybody else look so smart

Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect

I got ignored by somebody that can't argue with me.

It's okay greenbean take your ball and go home.

If I failed at making an argument why would you be putting me on ignore?

You just can't prove that men from mars have taken over the APA or whatever cockimamie paranoid conspiracy theory you cooked up in your little nugget. And you got so mad you want to ignore me. Aww...

All good though, basically it's a win when I get somebody to ignore me.

 

[Howey]

NOW - GreenBean I presented factual evidence

lol...no you didn't. You presented the insane ramblings of an insane kook who's been discredited by the profession. Why has he claimed to have converted thousands of gays and has yet to name one name?

This guy has about as much credibility as Marcus "Sugar Daddy" Bachmann or your tiny dick.







Meanwhile, he and his boyfriend George Rekers were recently outed in a gay

VIDEO: Rachel Maddow Spotlights Rekers? Hypocrisy and Harm to Youths | Truth Wins Out

and George Rekers Resigns From Anti-Gay Group In Wake Of 'Rentboy' Scandal (VIDEO: 'Rentboy' Speaks Out)

Prominent anti-gay activist George Rekers, who was caught last week returning from a 10-day trip to Europe with a male escort he found on Rentboy.com, has terminated his association with a major anti-gay group.

Rekers has resigned from the board of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, or NARTH, "to allow myself the time necessary to fight the false media reports that have been made against me," the retired professor said in a statement.

Once again, Rekers declined to dispute specific elements of the Miami New Times' coverage, choosing instead to contradict its obvious implications. "With the assistance of a defamation attorney, I will fight these false reports because I have not engaged in any homosexual behavior whatsoever," he said. "I am not gay and never have been."

NARTH, which advocates "therapy" to convert gays and fights scientific research suggesting that such treatment is ludicrous, attached a statement to Rekers' resignation asserting that his apparent hypocrisy does not reflect on their work. A NARTH spokesman told TPM that the extent of the organization's involvement in the Rentboy scandal is to tell Rekers "if he is innocent he needs to get a good lawyer."

There's your proof. All your so-called therapists just want to see boys strip naked and suck their dicks.

 

[emilynghiem]

Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.

Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.

[MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]

To Greenbean's credit, he does know there is denial on the left, and unresolved conflicts over the homosexual issue. He may not be diplomatic but self-defeating in trying to point out the problems, and go into personal attacks that don't help at all. But he knows something is wrong with this picture, and I agree with him on that point. Too bad he goes into sabotage mode, because whatever point he could make is lost in the gunfire.

As for you Jake
just because you have no experience, concept or background knowledge on
"spiritual healing" as applied to sexual abuse and behavior related to it,
does NOT mean "you know nothing and you are worthless"

You assume this about "conversion therapy" because you don't know the difference.
That is no reason to judge you, it's not your fault you don't have access to knowledge
like others do.

Greenbean has had experiences and knowledge that give him a different understanding.

Jake if you dismiss others as "worthless" just because you don't relate to our information,
then others do that to you. And they miss YOUR points because they shoot you down.

Is this what you want?
How do you expect to share YOUR points and information
if you dismiss other messengers with THEIR points "you deem worthless"

Do you really expect to succeed in communicating and CORRECTING
misinformation this way? By messengers competing to shoot each other down?

I don't agree when Greenbean does this, and don't think you need to resort to it either.

You have plenty of capability of researching and expressing points EFFECTIVELY
without resorting to games of blind denial and rejection to try to one-up anyone else.

I think you could win your arguments on content and principles,
not playing these same games that defeat the purpose. I thought the point was correction.
Are you sure you can't do better than this?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.

Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.

Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable, is because you make everybody else look so smart

Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect

Greenbean Snow has posted opinion and calls that fact.

He has added absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.

When you have evidence, bring it.

Otherwise, you are going to keep getting hammered.

 

[emilynghiem]

American Psychological Association. Owned by the Gays
Narth isn't credible. They can't list any real pathology related to homosexuality.

1. Any "pathological condition" that could be found with homosexuality
can also be found with heterosexuality, ie regardless of orientation. these affect people in general, although homosexual behavior has been singled out as a more visible target.

If homosexual attraction is caused by "karma" so are other forms of sexual attraction caused by "karma" that affect heterosexual populations as well (more so due to numbers alone)

Look at Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky -- how do you know THAT relationship or attraction wasn't caused by similar karma that makes homosexual partners or "soul mates" attracted to each other?

Spiritual healing addresses ANY karma or conditions that is "unnatural" and a person wants to be freed from.

It is independent of gender or orientation. The same methods also heal a lot of other conditions, both physical or mental, so it's not just about sexual relationships.

Anything caused or related to "unnatural karma" any "unresolved/unforgiven" conflicts or abuses from the past, can be healed if these issues are identified, forgiven and healed.

Heterosexual people also suffer from sexual abuse, addiction, etc.
The same recovery and healing methods that apply to heterosexuals also apply to homosexuals.

==============

2. For resources, I recommend Francis MacNutt
* Healing (on the process of natural healing and distinctions between the different levels it is applied)
* Homosexuality Can it be Healed
where again he makes a distinction between approaches, instead of trying to judge all cases the same

 

[Inevitable]

Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.

Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.

[MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]

To Greenbean's credit, he does know there is denial on the left, and unresolved conflicts over the homosexual issue. He may not be diplomatic but self-defeating in trying to point out the problems, and go into personal attacks that don't help at all. But he knows something is wrong with this picture, and I agree with him on that point. Too bad he goes into sabotage mode, because whatever point he could make is lost in the gunfire.

As for you Jake
just because you have no experience, concept or background knowledge on
"spiritual healing" as applied to sexual abuse and behavior related to it,
does NOT mean "you know nothing and you are worthless"

You assume this about "conversion therapy" because you don't know the difference.
That is no reason to judge you, it's not your fault you don't have access to knowledge
like others do.

Greenbean has had experiences and knowledge that give him a different understanding.

Jake if you dismiss others as "worthless" just because you don't relate to our information,
then others do that to you. And they miss YOUR points because they shoot you down.

Is this what you want?
How do you expect to share YOUR points and information
if you dismiss other messengers with THEIR points "you deem worthless"

Do you really expect to succeed in communicating and CORRECTING
misinformation this way? By messengers competing to shoot each other down?

I don't agree when Greenbean does this, and don't think you need to resort to it either.

You have plenty of capability of researching and expressing points EFFECTIVELY
without resorting to games of blind denial and rejection to try to one-up anyone else.

I think you could win your arguments on content and principles,
not playing these same games that defeat the purpose. I thought the point was correction.
Are you sure you can't do better than this?

I wonthe argument on content.

Jake was just letting me know somebody saw it.

 

[emilynghiem]

Greenbean Snow has posted opinion and calls that fact.

He has added absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.

When you have evidence, bring it.

Otherwise, you are going to keep getting hammered.

I will agree he can obviously be worse than you,
and I expect more of you for that reason.

You also posted the presumption that "all conversion therapy"
was worthless and had nothing to offer.

So you took your opinion, based on not having any knowledge or experience
in the different TYPES of therapy out there, and posted this as if it were FACT.

So you make leaps, I do, everyone does.

If you make this leap, then Greenbean and I who have different sources of information
that tell us otherwise, will challenge you and seek to correct you on that point.

We are not anymore "worthless" than you are because you make leaps also,
and post opinions as facts if you truly believe that to be true. I can't fault
you for that, but do urge you to correct it when it happens, as I try to also.

If you and I want Greenbean NOT to post opinions as facts,
we should be careful not to do this either. And correct ourselves when we do.
(Three people caught me imposing biases on the legalization issue,
and I had to check myself on that, and realized it affected my response to other cases not directly related.
Everyone is going to have biases, holes in our range of knowledge and experience, that limit our perception and affect our opinions.)

I apologize if I come across that way when I do this,
I am willing to promote and support formal research into the spiritual healing therapy
I have found to be effective and natural, and causing no harm or risk to anyone,
as it works by free choice alongside medical and mental professional treatment.

I don't expect ANYONE to believe this without medical/scientific proof,
as the first natural response is "there is NO way this can be true."
So of course formal research studies "that can be replicated" are required
before any of this can be accepted or integrated as public knowledge.

Sources for setting up research:
* Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil, where he observed this method applied to healing two severely schizophrenic patients otherwise deemed incureable until this method worked to restore their normal minds and will from obsessive "demonic" addictions
* Francis MacNutt, HEALING (also author of "Homosexuality Can it be healed")
both authors appealed to support medical research to understand this process of healing as natural so more people can benefit and, in the case of Peck's patients, more lives can be saved by earlier
intervention (one of the patients made it to full recovery, the other died of complications from disease and medical conditions because she abused her body too long instead of getting the right help in time)

Peck's first response to his friend's arguments that demons and deliverance were real was that these were DELUSIONS and had NO PLACE in science or medicine.
Upon observation, as a scientist seeking to debunk his friend's challenge, Peck changed his mind and urged formal medical research and development in this field as necessary for treating certain cases.
He knew he could not prove the spiritual source or process of the phenomena he witnessed; but he could quantify the symptoms, stages/changes, and resulting normalized state BEFORE and AFTER treatment, just like any other procedure that is supposed to cure an ill condition. So he advocated that that part of the process could be developed as a valid method of diagnosis and treatment.

 

[GreenBean]

Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.

Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.

[MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION]

To Greenbean's credit, he does know there is denial on the left, and unresolved conflicts over the homosexual issue. He may not be diplomatic but self-defeating in trying to point out the problems, and go into personal attacks that don't help at all. But he knows something is wrong with this picture, and I agree with him on that point. Too bad he goes into sabotage mode, because whatever point he could make is lost in the gunfire.

As for you Jake
just because you have no experience, concept or background knowledge on
"spiritual healing" as applied to sexual abuse and behavior related to it,
does NOT mean "you know nothing and you are worthless"

You assume this about "conversion therapy" because you don't know the difference.
That is no reason to judge you, it's not your fault you don't have access to knowledge
like others do.

Greenbean has had experiences and knowledge that give him a different understanding.

Jake if you dismiss others as "worthless" just because you don't relate to our information,
then others do that to you. And they miss YOUR points because they shoot you down.

Is this what you want?
How do you expect to share YOUR points and information
if you dismiss other messengers with THEIR points "you deem worthless"

Do you really expect to succeed in communicating and CORRECTING
misinformation this way? By messengers competing to shoot each other down?

I don't agree when Greenbean does this, and don't think you need to resort to it either.

You have plenty of capability of researching and expressing points EFFECTIVELY
without resorting to games of blind denial and rejection to try to one-up anyone else.

I think you could win your arguments on content and principles,
not playing these same games that defeat the purpose. I thought the point was correction.
Are you sure you can't do better than this?

To Greenbean's credit, he does know there is denial on the left, and unresolved conflicts over the homosexual issue

Emily , you are such a "gentile" person , who tried to see the good in everybody - I can't be that charitable

Do you really expect to succeed in communicating and CORRECTING
misinformation this way? By messengers competing to shoot each other down?

I don't agree when Greenbean does this, and don't think you need to resort to it either.

If you'll notice when inevitable first showed up - I treated him with the utmost respect -because he initially presented himself in an eloquent and respectable manner . As the conversation progressed however , and he continued to deflect on issue after issue on which he was asked to present info. to back up his opinions - he refused and continued to deflect.

Now I do notice another poster put upsome sort of rebutttal for him - as he was incapable of doing this himself, which I will address later tonight perhaps - [as the real world beckons and detracts from my interent rambles]

And so far as his statemment that he has encountered me on other threads - quite possible - I've been kicked off alot of them - not so much for my vicous style, as for my Politically incorrect Opinions and I wear it like a Badge of Honor .

Freedom is the Right to tell people what they do not want to hear [Orwell] and to smack them up the side their heads while you're at it [GreeBean]

 

[GreenBean]

Greenbean Snow knows nothing, as Inevitable just went through GB's defensive conspiracies (in lieu of objective evidence) apart like a hot knife through butter.

Hetero-fascism will not die for some in America, but the fascists' children are rebuking that hatred in their lives.

Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable, is because you make everybody else look so smart

Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect

Greenbean Snow has posted opinion and calls that fact.

He has added absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.

When you have evidence, bring it.

Otherwise, you are going to keep getting hammered.

Where was I hammerred Jack Ass ? Not in the realm of reality or factual evidence - drive by comments prove nothing.

 

[Inevitable]

1. Any "pathological condition" that could be found with homosexuality
can also be found with heterosexuality, ie regardless of orientation. these affect people in general, although homosexual behavior has been singled out as a more visible target.

That would mean that the pathological condition isn'tat all related to orientation.

If homosexual attraction is caused by "karma" so are other forms of sexual attraction caused by "karma" that affect heterosexual populations as well (more so due to numbers alone)

Look at Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky -- how do you know THAT relationship or attraction wasn't caused by similar karma that makes homosexual partners or "soul mates" attracted to each other?

Spiritual healing addresses ANY karma or conditions that is "unnatural" and a person wants to be freed from.

It is independent of gender or orientation. The same methods also heal a lot of other conditions, both physical or mental, so it's not just about sexual relationships.

Anything caused or related to "unnatural karma" any "unresolved/unforgiven" conflicts or abuses from the past, can be healed if these issues are identified, forgiven and healed.

Karma? Sorry, that ship doesn't sail.

Heterosexual people also suffer from sexual abuse, addiction, etc.
The same recovery and healing methods that apply to heterosexuals also apply to homosexuals.

For people recovering from sexual abuse yes. That hasn't anything to dowith homosexuality.

==============

2. For resources, I recommend Francis MacNutt
* Healing (on the process of natural healing and distinctions between the different levels it is applied)
* Homosexuality Can it be Healed
where again he makes a distinction between approaches, instead of trying to judge all cases the same

No thanks. And your last statement is a complete lie. He obviously judges of he thinks it needs to be healed.

 

[Inevitable]

Starkey Starkey full of shit and malarkey - the only reason I don't add you to my ignore list, as I just did with inevitable, is because you make everybody else look so smart

Greenbean "snow" whatever the fuck that is suppossed to mean - lmfao posts fact after fact that you penis puffers can't refute so you simply deflect

Greenbean Snow has posted opinion and calls that fact.

He has added absolutely nothing of worth to the discussion.

When you have evidence, bring it.

Otherwise, you are going to keep getting hammered.

Where was I hammerred Jack Ass ? Not in the realm of reality or factual evidence - drive by comments prove nothing.

You failed to prove your conspiracy theory, you put me on ignorebecause I call it what it is. Seems you were devastatingly hammered.