why is this a good plan?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

This is typical of what's wrong with the GOP, and why conservatism is the bane of the American Nation.

There is nothing 'wrong' with compromise; you don't represent a majority of Americans, a majority of Americans reject your 'principles,' and there's nothing in the Constitution, its case law, or Federal law that says republicans and conservatives will always get their way 100 percent of the time.

This may come as a shock to you, the consequence of your blind arrogance, but this country is made up of people who disagree with you, who don't want to have anything to do with your errant, wrongheaded 'principles,' for whom those 'principles' would place them at a disadvantage, subject them to discrimination, and undermine their quality of life.

Non-conservatives have just as much right as you to have a say in the direction of the Nation, to have their views, beliefs, principles and values given a full and fair hearing, and to live in an America free from discrimination, disadvantage, and the adverse consequences that conservative dogma manifests.

So, yes – you need to compromise with your fellow Americans, whose opinions, beliefs, views, and principles are just as valid as yours, just as important as yours, and merit being implemented in National public policy as yours.

 

[Andylusion]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

This is typical of what's wrong with the GOP, and why conservatism is the bane of the American Nation.

There is nothing 'wrong' with compromise; you don't represent a majority of Americans, a majority of Americans reject your 'principles,' and there's nothing in the Constitution, its case law, or Federal law that says republicans and conservatives will always get their way 100 percent of the time.

This may come as a shock to you, the consequence of your blind arrogance, but this country is made up of people who disagree with you, who don't want to have anything to do with your errant, wrongheaded 'principles,' for whom those 'principles' would place them at a disadvantage, subject them to discrimination, and undermine their quality of life.

Non-conservatives have just as much right as you to have a say in the direction of the Nation, to have their views, beliefs, principles and values given a full and fair hearing, and to live in an America free from discrimination, disadvantage, and the adverse consequences that conservative dogma manifests.

So, yes – you need to compromise with your fellow Americans, whose opinions, beliefs, views, and principles are just as valid as yours, just as important as yours, and merit being implemented in National public policy as yours.

If there is nothing wrong with compromise, then you should be the biggest supporter of Republicans. That's what they do all the time.

 

[Slyhunter]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

This is typical of what's wrong with the GOP, and why conservatism is the bane of the American Nation.

There is nothing 'wrong' with compromise; you don't represent a majority of Americans, a majority of Americans reject your 'principles,' and there's nothing in the Constitution, its case law, or Federal law that says republicans and conservatives will always get their way 100 percent of the time.

This may come as a shock to you, the consequence of your blind arrogance, but this country is made up of people who disagree with you, who don't want to have anything to do with your errant, wrongheaded 'principles,' for whom those 'principles' would place them at a disadvantage, subject them to discrimination, and undermine their quality of life.

Non-conservatives have just as much right as you to have a say in the direction of the Nation, to have their views, beliefs, principles and values given a full and fair hearing, and to live in an America free from discrimination, disadvantage, and the adverse consequences that conservative dogma manifests.

So, yes – you need to compromise with your fellow Americans, whose opinions, beliefs, views, and principles are just as valid as yours, just as important as yours, and merit being implemented in National public policy as yours.

Compromise does not mean Liberals get there way every single time.

Liberals idea of compromise is incrementalism, they get a little of what they want each time until they force their foot through the door and have the whole enchilada.

 

[Avatar4321]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

Answer me this: Was Ronald Reagan a great President because he was a conservative or because he knew how to lead?

Reagan was both. Trump is neither.

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question in the last thread you started. You didn't answer there...maybe you will answer here...

What I find strange about this is that you, Avatar4321, were all in for Romney. Another rich, politically moderate businessman.

The difference is, this one has conviction, whereas Romney was falling all over himself trying to explain that he wasn't what he so obviously was.

There are some positions that Trump holds that I am not particularly fond of. But at least the man tells me the truth about them.

So, which positions of Trumps do you, Avatar4321, find so terribly different from Romney's positions that you did support with gusto? And encouraged me to support?

why im not sold on trump​

The difference is Romney was far more conservative than Trump and he was a good man. Romney also had a lifetime fixing corrupt organizations.

Trump is not a good man. He doesn't have conviction. He isn't principles. He is a bully. And he is a freaking leftist. When did Romney donate to Hillary? When did Romney say he would have sex with his daughter if he could? Where did Romney state that a family member who is an extreme leftist would be an amazing supreme Court pick? Where did Romney declare bankruptcy multiple times in a business where people literally hand you money?

You guys whined about Romney because he supported the mandate and changed position. Trump still supports the mandate. He was supporting the dream act literally up until he began running. Literally Everything you complained about with Romney Trump has done worse.

I can't help but notice you refused to explain why we should vote for someone who is promising to do exactly the things we are supposedly upset about. It's incredibly ironic that we could have the biggest rino as a nominee in decades because the party is annoyed with rinos.

 

[Avatar4321]

Trump will build a wall and deport the illegals, put an end to jobs and corporations fleeing the U.S., and bring jobs back. All the Democrats are offering are higher taxes, more regulations, amnesty for illegals and more illegals, and more jobs and corporations fleeing the U.S. The contrast is vivid.

And yet he hires illegals, brags about the work they do for him and was promoting amnesty until right before he entered the campaign

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm almost to the point of not even voting anymore at least in Presidential elections. It's to the point now where it's the same assholes just with a different letter next to their name if my choice this year is Trump or Hillary I'm 95 percent sure I will be staying home on Election Day.

So, if you don't get your way, you're taking your ball and going home?

What if the Rubio won, and the 35% of die-hard Trump supporters made that decision?

Think he could win?

Last I checked there was no law, rule, or regulation that stated people had to vote for a candidate they did not like support or believe in same would apply to Trump supporters. For most of my adult I have had to choose between the lesser of two evils when voting for President im sick of doing that if I think both choices being put foreword suck and would be a disaster as President I will excerise my right to say no thank you to both.

I'm half tempted to vote for myself in the general, not because I want the job but because I want to vote for someone I can actually trust

 

[Avatar4321]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

Well, suck it up. You won't get what you want. Mommy and Daddy can't make this one right for their little boy.

You do realize that you are the one who will suffer the most when Trump is done using you right?

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm almost to the point of not even voting anymore at least in Presidential elections. It's to the point now where it's the same assholes just with a different letter next to their name if my choice this year is Trump or Hillary I'm 95 percent sure I will be staying home on Election Day.

Not voting has allowed progressive criminals to infest USA.gov.

Ponder that!

Sounds like progressive criminals win whether we vote for them or stay home. Which is why nominating them in both parties is stupid

 

[Missourian]

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question in the last thread you started. You didn't answer there...maybe you will answer here...

What I find strange about this is that you, Avatar4321, were all in for Romney. Another rich, politically moderate businessman.

The difference is, this one has conviction, whereas Romney was falling all over himself trying to explain that he wasn't what he so obviously was.

There are some positions that Trump holds that I am not particularly fond of. But at least the man tells me the truth about them.

So, which positions of Trumps do you, Avatar4321, find so terribly different from Romney's positions that you did support with gusto? And encouraged me to support?

why im not sold on trump​

The difference is Romney was far more conservative than Trump and he was a good man. Romney also had a lifetime fixing corrupt organizations.

Trump is not a good man. He doesn't have conviction. He isn't principles. He is a bully. And he is a freaking leftist. When did Romney donate to Hillary? When did Romney say he would have sex with his daughter if he could? Where did Romney state that a family member who is an extreme leftist would be an amazing supreme Court pick? Where did Romney declare bankruptcy multiple times in a business where people literally hand you money?

You guys whined about Romney because he supported the mandate and changed position. Trump still supports the mandate. He was supporting the dream act literally up until he began running. Literally Everything you complained about with Romney Trump has done worse.

I can't help but notice you refused to explain why we should vote for someone who is promising to do exactly the things we are supposedly upset about. It's incredibly ironic that we could have the biggest rino as a nominee in decades because the party is annoyed with rinos.

Translation...your plea for conservatism is bullshit. When it was a moderate Mormon running, all was well. Now that it is a more moderate non-Mormon...the world is coming to an end.

Duly noted.

 

[candycorn]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

"Anger" is a fallacy. There are no more angry voters than normal. The only difference is that some of them are white this time because they have been told they are under attack. Some of the dolts believe it.

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm almost to the point of not even voting anymore at least in Presidential elections. It's to the point now where it's the same assholes just with a different letter next to their name if my choice this year is Trump or Hillary I'm 95 percent sure I will be staying home on Election Day.

Except..

One more Kagan on the SCOTUS and this nation is over.

And when Trump nominates a judge like his liberal sister whom he said would make an amazing justice, what then?

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question in the last thread you started. You didn't answer there...maybe you will answer here...

What I find strange about this is that you, Avatar4321, were all in for Romney. Another rich, politically moderate businessman.

The difference is, this one has conviction, whereas Romney was falling all over himself trying to explain that he wasn't what he so obviously was.

There are some positions that Trump holds that I am not particularly fond of. But at least the man tells me the truth about them.

So, which positions of Trumps do you, Avatar4321, find so terribly different from Romney's positions that you did support with gusto? And encouraged me to support?

why im not sold on trump​

The difference is Romney was far more conservative than Trump and he was a good man. Romney also had a lifetime fixing corrupt organizations.

Trump is not a good man. He doesn't have conviction. He isn't principles. He is a bully. And he is a freaking leftist. When did Romney donate to Hillary? When did Romney say he would have sex with his daughter if he could? Where did Romney state that a family member who is an extreme leftist would be an amazing supreme Court pick? Where did Romney declare bankruptcy multiple times in a business where people literally hand you money?

You guys whined about Romney because he supported the mandate and changed position. Trump still supports the mandate. He was supporting the dream act literally up until he began running. Literally Everything you complained about with Romney Trump has done worse.

I can't help but notice you refused to explain why we should vote for someone who is promising to do exactly the things we are supposedly upset about. It's incredibly ironic that we could have the biggest rino as a nominee in decades because the party is annoyed with rinos.

Translation...your plea for conservatism is bullshit. When it was a Mormon running, all was well.

Duly noted.

You suck at translating.

Romney is far more conservative than Trump will ever be.

But then I guess you like rinos. You always seem to support them

 

[Avatar4321]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

This is typical of what's wrong with the GOP, and why conservatism is the bane of the American Nation.

There is nothing 'wrong' with compromise; you don't represent a majority of Americans, a majority of Americans reject your 'principles,' and there's nothing in the Constitution, its case law, or Federal law that says republicans and conservatives will always get their way 100 percent of the time.

This may come as a shock to you, the consequence of your blind arrogance, but this country is made up of people who disagree with you, who don't want to have anything to do with your errant, wrongheaded 'principles,' for whom those 'principles' would place them at a disadvantage, subject them to discrimination, and undermine their quality of life.

Non-conservatives have just as much right as you to have a say in the direction of the Nation, to have their views, beliefs, principles and values given a full and fair hearing, and to live in an America free from discrimination, disadvantage, and the adverse consequences that conservative dogma manifests.

So, yes – you need to compromise with your fellow Americans, whose opinions, beliefs, views, and principles are just as valid as yours, just as important as yours, and merit being implemented in National public policy as yours.

compromise is bad when it results in oppression. But then you've never been big on liberty so I understand why you don't like the constitution or limited government.

 

[Missourian]

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question in the last thread you started. You didn't answer there...maybe you will answer here...

What I find strange about this is that you, Avatar4321, were all in for Romney. Another rich, politically moderate businessman.

The difference is, this one has conviction, whereas Romney was falling all over himself trying to explain that he wasn't what he so obviously was.

There are some positions that Trump holds that I am not particularly fond of. But at least the man tells me the truth about them.

So, which positions of Trumps do you, Avatar4321, find so terribly different from Romney's positions that you did support with gusto? And encouraged me to support?

why im not sold on trump​

The difference is Romney was far more conservative than Trump and he was a good man. Romney also had a lifetime fixing corrupt organizations.

Trump is not a good man. He doesn't have conviction. He isn't principles. He is a bully. And he is a freaking leftist. When did Romney donate to Hillary? When did Romney say he would have sex with his daughter if he could? Where did Romney state that a family member who is an extreme leftist would be an amazing supreme Court pick? Where did Romney declare bankruptcy multiple times in a business where people literally hand you money?

You guys whined about Romney because he supported the mandate and changed position. Trump still supports the mandate. He was supporting the dream act literally up until he began running. Literally Everything you complained about with Romney Trump has done worse.

I can't help but notice you refused to explain why we should vote for someone who is promising to do exactly the things we are supposedly upset about. It's incredibly ironic that we could have the biggest rino as a nominee in decades because the party is annoyed with rinos.

Translation...your plea for conservatism is bullshit. When it was a Mormon running, all was well.

Duly noted.

Romney is far more conservative than Trump will ever be.

If you actually believe that statement, you are completely disconnected from reality .

 

[candycorn]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

This has been my question about conservative support for Trump all along - for so long I've been hearing how Republicans should not cooperate with Democrats, and then a guy who promises to do exactly that runs away with the nomination.

From what I'm being told, people who support Trump have indeed consciously changed their priorities from down-the-line conservative values to a bull in the china shop who will at least get SOME things they want via give and take.

Obviously they have to be pretty goddamned frustrated to change like that, but I can see them thinking that SOME victories would be better than NO victories.
.

What do you think of the theory that maybe he's like Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco or Alex Rodriguez? You have this guy on your team whose a total nutjob, the other players don't like him, he could care less about the team's traditions, standards, or customs. He doesn't run out grounders to short or arrive for BP on time and constantly criticizes other players and the management. But he can destroy the baseball when he comes up to bat. And because of that, you look the other way on his caustic behavior in all other endeavors?

I honestly think it is that at this point...nothing else threads all the needles. I mean, he's not a conservative, not much of a Christian actually saying "it's more fun" to fight, and his plans are garbage from both a constitutional and a fiscal standpoint.... The only thing that he has is the presumptive GOP nomination and the thought that he will be a formidable opponent to HRC. Thats it.

 

[AVG-JOE]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

I feel ya, Bro'. I crossed that line between the 2 Bush II terms.

What a long strange trip it's been, eh?

 

[LoneLaugher]

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question in the last thread you started. You didn't answer there...maybe you will answer here...

What I find strange about this is that you, Avatar4321, were all in for Romney. Another rich, politically moderate businessman.

The difference is, this one has conviction, whereas Romney was falling all over himself trying to explain that he wasn't what he so obviously was.

There are some positions that Trump holds that I am not particularly fond of. But at least the man tells me the truth about them.

So, which positions of Trumps do you, Avatar4321, find so terribly different from Romney's positions that you did support with gusto? And encouraged me to support?

why im not sold on trump​

The difference is Romney was far more conservative than Trump and he was a good man. Romney also had a lifetime fixing corrupt organizations.

Trump is not a good man. He doesn't have conviction. He isn't principles. He is a bully. And he is a freaking leftist. When did Romney donate to Hillary? When did Romney say he would have sex with his daughter if he could? Where did Romney state that a family member who is an extreme leftist would be an amazing supreme Court pick? Where did Romney declare bankruptcy multiple times in a business where people literally hand you money?

You guys whined about Romney because he supported the mandate and changed position. Trump still supports the mandate. He was supporting the dream act literally up until he began running. Literally Everything you complained about with Romney Trump has done worse.

I can't help but notice you refused to explain why we should vote for someone who is promising to do exactly the things we are supposedly upset about. It's incredibly ironic that we could have the biggest rino as a nominee in decades because the party is annoyed with rinos.

Translation...your plea for conservatism is bullshit. When it was a moderate Mormon running, all was well. Now that it is a more moderate non-Mormon...the world is coming to an end.

Duly noted.

But....Trump LOVES the Mormons. They are great, great people. And they love Trump.

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question in the last thread you started. You didn't answer there...maybe you will answer here...

What I find strange about this is that you, Avatar4321, were all in for Romney. Another rich, politically moderate businessman.

The difference is, this one has conviction, whereas Romney was falling all over himself trying to explain that he wasn't what he so obviously was.

There are some positions that Trump holds that I am not particularly fond of. But at least the man tells me the truth about them.

So, which positions of Trumps do you, Avatar4321, find so terribly different from Romney's positions that you did support with gusto? And encouraged me to support?

why im not sold on trump​

The difference is Romney was far more conservative than Trump and he was a good man. Romney also had a lifetime fixing corrupt organizations.

Trump is not a good man. He doesn't have conviction. He isn't principles. He is a bully. And he is a freaking leftist. When did Romney donate to Hillary? When did Romney say he would have sex with his daughter if he could? Where did Romney state that a family member who is an extreme leftist would be an amazing supreme Court pick? Where did Romney declare bankruptcy multiple times in a business where people literally hand you money?

You guys whined about Romney because he supported the mandate and changed position. Trump still supports the mandate. He was supporting the dream act literally up until he began running. Literally Everything you complained about with Romney Trump has done worse.

I can't help but notice you refused to explain why we should vote for someone who is promising to do exactly the things we are supposedly upset about. It's incredibly ironic that we could have the biggest rino as a nominee in decades because the party is annoyed with rinos.

Translation...your plea for conservatism is bullshit. When it was a moderate Mormon running, all was well. Now that it is a more moderate non-Mormon...the world is coming to an end.

Duly noted.

BTW I can't help but note you've admitted Trump is less conservative than Romney.

I'd be opposing Harry Reid for the very same reasons. But we all know the reason you didn't like Romney wasn't because he is a moderate as you are voting for far more moderate candidate this time and adit it. In fact you always support moderate candidates.

 

[candycorn]

We are angry with the GOP establishment because they promise us they will fight for our principles and then when they get to Washington they betray us and compromise with democrats.

So to show them we are going to nominate Donald trump who is promising to go to Washington and make deals with democrats and expect a radically different outcome

Meanwhile we could have the man the establishment absolutely hates because he actually went to Washington and kept his promises.

It seems to me that we don't really care about the conservative principles we've been saying we believe it. and if this is true I don't want to be a conservative. I want to be free, not put up a bully who promises to do the same things we are angry about.

Answer me this: Was Ronald Reagan a great President because he was a conservative or because he knew how to lead?

He wrote billions in bad checks and was compared favorably to what came before him (an impeachment, a bumbling Gerald Ford, and Carter who was ill suited to be President). Reagan was a gentleman who was classy and understood the job. Trump is neither.