Why JFKs Roman Catholic faith is ns not the same as Romneys Mormanism

[JoeB131]

Joe worships at the altar of union shop states.
Where from cradle to grave a job is guaranteed at a wage double what the market demands, full benefits and full retirement.

I am always curious why you guys think that a CEO or investor should get a 8 or 9 figure salary but you begrudge a working man a fair wage with benefits?

According to the Right it's class envy to say anything negative about the super-rich,

but oddly, the Right can't shut up about teachers making a decent wage.

Actually, teacher's unions actually make the anti-union argument because the situation becomes so extreme- where you can't fire someone no matter how grossly inept they are at their job. Like the NYC teacher who has been on paid administrative leave for 14 years after molesting a student because he can't be fired. And he's pulling down close to six figures. they are the other extreme.

Why can't there be a happy medium, where working folks get a good wage for doing a good job, but employers (and the people who want to do good work, which really is most people) have the ability to get rid of incompetant, lazy, or disruptive employees without a papal edict.

So in some ways, unions have dug themselves into the hole where anti-worker guys like Gadawg can shoot off their mouths and get some sympathy from working folks. Even if they'd screw all working folks given the oppurtunity.

 

[JoeB131]

Birds of a feather flock together.
Wait and see. You will see few if any SBC preachers come out against Romney for being a Mormon.
The Obama factor is that strong. They hate a negro in the White House more than a Mormon.
Book it. I live here.

Oh, few of them will publically come out and say it.

Actually, I think the oppossite will happen. Obama will win states that McCain took last time because the Evangelicals and Baptists will stay home, vote third party or even go for Obama.

I see Obama taking Arkansas, Missouri and maybe Texas.

 

[Gadawg73]

Birds of a feather flock together.
Wait and see. You will see few if any SBC preachers come out against Romney for being a Mormon.
The Obama factor is that strong. They hate a negro in the White House more than a Mormon.
Book it. I live here.

Oh, few of them will publically come out and say it.

Actually, I think the oppossite will happen. Obama will win states that McCain took last time because the Evangelicals and Baptists will stay home, vote third party or even go for Obama.

I see Obama taking Arkansas, Missouri and maybe Texas.

Repeat, they want the Negro gone and will hold their nose and vote for anyone.
Believe me.

 

[JoeB131]

Birds of a feather flock together.
Wait and see. You will see few if any SBC preachers come out against Romney for being a Mormon.
The Obama factor is that strong. They hate a negro in the White House more than a Mormon.
Book it. I live here.

Oh, few of them will publically come out and say it.

Actually, I think the oppossite will happen. Obama will win states that McCain took last time because the Evangelicals and Baptists will stay home, vote third party or even go for Obama.

I see Obama taking Arkansas, Missouri and maybe Texas.

Repeat, they want the Negro gone and will hold their nose and vote for anyone.
Believe me.

Repeat- It isn't that big of a deal to most people.

Obama only missed taking Missouri by 4000 votes last time. Can't see him losing that many votes to Romney, and I see a lot of those Baptists who hated Mormons staying home. So Flip Missouri.

Texas- Obama came up 900,000 short- But Hispanics have grown and Romney had demagouged the Hispanic issue, for Pete's Sake. Combine Evangelical reluctance and the fact Rick Perry will be running the GOP effort down there, and things could get amusing.

Mark my words. Not only will Romney lose, he will lose bigger than McCain did.

Arkansas I'm taking a leap, but Arkansas is actually a Democratic State.

Just saying, his lack of appeal to Southerners is a weakness, because any GOP guy who has to fight for the South is already a loser.

 

[Gadawg73]

I am always curious why you guys think that a CEO or investor should get a 8 or 9 figure salary but you begrudge a working man a fair wage with benefits?

According to the Right it's class envy to say anything negative about the super-rich,

but oddly, the Right can't shut up about teachers making a decent wage.

Actually, teacher's unions actually make the anti-union argument because the situation becomes so extreme- where you can't fire someone no matter how grossly inept they are at their job. Like the NYC teacher who has been on paid administrative leave for 14 years after molesting a student because he can't be fired. And he's pulling down close to six figures. they are the other extreme.

Why can't there be a happy medium, where working folks get a good wage for doing a good job, but employers (and the people who want to do good work, which really is most people) have the ability to get rid of incompetant, lazy, or disruptive employees without a papal edict.

So in some ways, unions have dug themselves into the hole where anti-worker guys like Gadawg can shoot off their mouths and get some sympathy from working folks. Even if they'd screw all working folks given the oppurtunity.

How could I be anti worker Joe?
I am going to work NOW.
I R a worker.
While all your union buddies get Monday off as a paid Holiday I GO TO WORK.
I, unlike the union cry babies, do not seek sympathy.
Explain how I am not a worker Joe. Back it up.
This ought to be rich.

 

[Gadawg73]

Oh, few of them will publically come out and say it.

Actually, I think the oppossite will happen. Obama will win states that McCain took last time because the Evangelicals and Baptists will stay home, vote third party or even go for Obama.

I see Obama taking Arkansas, Missouri and maybe Texas.

Repeat, they want the Negro gone and will hold their nose and vote for anyone.
Believe me.

Repeat- It isn't that big of a deal to most people.

Obama only missed taking Missouri by 4000 votes last time. Can't see him losing that many votes to Romney, and I see a lot of those Baptists who hated Mormons staying home. So Flip Missouri.

Texas- Obama came up 900,000 short- But Hispanics have grown and Romney had demagouged the Hispanic issue, for Pete's Sake. Combine Evangelical reluctance and the fact Rick Perry will be running the GOP effort down there, and things could get amusing.

Mark my words. Not only will Romney lose, he will lose bigger than McCain did.

Arkansas I'm taking a leap, but Arkansas is actually a Democratic State.

Just saying, his lack of appeal to Southerners is a weakness, because any GOP guy who has to fight for the South is already a loser.

You make a good point with Missouri as I believe they are neck and nedk there with the movement going to Obama.
Texas, no.
They fuck their sisters in Arkansas and they are not even religous so who knows.

 

[JoeB131]

How could I be anti worker Joe?
I am going to work NOW.
I R a worker.
While all your union buddies get Monday off as a paid Holiday I GO TO WORK.
I, unlike the union cry babies, do not seek sympathy.
Explain how I am not a worker Joe. Back it up.
This ought to be rich.

Well, I wouldn't want to keep you from your all important job of snooping into other people's business...

But it seems to me that you are angry that workers got together and negotiated better terms for themselves. Oh, the shock and horror of it all.

I mean, I suppose you miss the good old days of child labor and people toiling in workhouses. I frankly have no desire to go back there, and no desire to vote for someone like Romney who wants to take us there.

 

[kaz]

Approx one third of US citizens in 1960 were Catholics.

All religions have whacky views. It cracks me up when you all compete that "their" views are screwier. The basic principles make sense, but then they all have to go into all the dogma where they start saying all these specific and irrelevant things about God and that's when they lose it. I don't know who's pony you have in the race, maybe it's Catholic. But if you're rating the whacky, you have one.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I am always curious why you guys think that a CEO or investor should get a 8 or 9 figure salary but you begrudge a working man a fair wage with benefits?

According to the Right it's class envy to say anything negative about the super-rich,

but oddly, the Right can't shut up about teachers making a decent wage.

Actually, teacher's unions actually make the anti-union argument because the situation becomes so extreme- where you can't fire someone no matter how grossly inept they are at their job. Like the NYC teacher who has been on paid administrative leave for 14 years after molesting a student because he can't be fired. And he's pulling down close to six figures. they are the other extreme.

Why can't there be a happy medium, where working folks get a good wage for doing a good job, but employers (and the people who want to do good work, which really is most people) have the ability to get rid of incompetant, lazy, or disruptive employees without a papal edict.

So in some ways, unions have dug themselves into the hole where anti-worker guys like Gadawg can shoot off their mouths and get some sympathy from working folks. Even if they'd screw all working folks given the oppurtunity.

The teacher's unions wouldn't have to exist if teachers were paid good salaries with good benefits without having to fight for every nickel.

 

[JoeB131]

You make a good point with Missouri as I believe they are neck and nedk there with the movement going to Obama.
Texas, no.
They fuck their sisters in Arkansas and they are not even religous so who knows.

Clinton carried it twice and Gore was neck and neck there with Bush in 2000.

It was blowout for McCain.

The thing about Texas is that by 2020, demographers expect it to become a blue state. Mostly because of Hispanics. WHich means after that, it will be practically impossible for the GOP to ever win the electoral college.

But the worrisome thing overall should be the lack of enthusiasm, that voter participation in the GOP primaries has barely increased in either Iowa or NH since 2008, nor did Romney really greatly improve his performance. Shocking given the president's unpopularity, and that there is no contest on their side. There should be a lot of people crossing over, and there aren't.

I compare that to 1980 (which is what we are trying to emulate) where there was real excitement about Reagan and the contest overall. They even invented a phrase for it. "Reagan Democrats". People like those in my SW Side Chicago neighborhood who traditionally voted Democratic, but were looking at Reagan.

Word I have yet to hear uttered - "Romney Democrat".

 

[NYcarbineer]

I've been watching 'The Borgias'. We should be very very very afraid of the Catholics.

 

[kaz]

Mark my words. Not only will Romney lose, he will lose bigger than McCain did

Politically, Romney is in a far better position then McCain because McCain was saddled with Bush and Obama is saddled with himself. It should be a bloodbath.

Now once Romney's nominated, the Left will start attacking him full throttle for being a Mormon because they're flaming hypocrites who only care about winning at any cost. And the whacked out bigoted extreme arm of Christianity will do the same. It'll work to a degree, but there aren't enough insecure hate filled little weaselly bigots like you to overcome Obama having to run on his record. Sorry, charlie. You just can't see that through your blind hatred.

 

[JoeB131]

The teacher's unions wouldn't have to exist if teachers were paid good salaries with good benefits without having to fight for every nickel.

You know what, my mom was an art teacher at a Catholic School for 14 years (before the cancer got her). She didn't belong to a union. She didn't get great benefits. She was a teacher because she was dedicated. People told me years later that they became professional artists because of things my mom taught them. Of course, my dad was a union guy and got those things.

My problem with public sector unions is that unlike private sector unions, (who are just arguing over the owners over a fair division of the fruits of the labors), they are demanding from US what the terms of their employment should be. We have already set those terms in elections. This is the standard of performance we expect. We expect our kids to be able to read after you've been working on them for 14 years. That's not an unreasonable performance expectation.

Except to a teacher's union.

We also expect that if a teacher molests a child, he should be fired that day. That's a reasonable expectation.

Except to a teacher's union.

 

[JoeB131]

Mark my words. Not only will Romney lose, he will lose bigger than McCain did

Politically, Romney is in a far better position then McCain because McCain was saddled with Bush and Obama is saddled with himself. It should be a bloodbath.

Now once Romney's nominated, the Left will start attacking him full throttle for being a Mormon because they're flaming hypocrites who only care about winning at any cost. And the whacked out bigoted extreme arm of Christianity will do the same. It'll work to a degree, but there aren't enough insecure hate filled little weaselly bigots like you to overcome Obama having to run on his record. Sorry, charlie. You just can't see that through your blind hatred.

Polls show that more Americans blame Bush for this recession than Obama. And Obama's approval rating is hovering around 46%. Just at the margin to get re-elected.

Romney is in a worse position than McCain because McCain was a war hero respected by both sides, a man who won praise for decades of service to his country. Romney is a guy who got rich screwing working people when nearly every working person has been screwed.

It isn't just the whacked out extreme of Christianity that will have issues with Romney's Mormonism. A recent poll showed that 26% of Americans don't think Mormons are Christians and another 22% "aren't sure". (Incidently, of my many complaints with Mormonism, I've never doubted that they were "Christians".) And again, that's before the MSM gets to busy work of pointing out the amusing and bizarre things that are in Mormon theology.

 

[JoeB131]

Approx one third of US citizens in 1960 were Catholics.

All religions have whacky views. It cracks me up when you all compete that "their" views are screwier. The basic principles make sense, but then they all have to go into all the dogma where they start saying all these specific and irrelevant things about God and that's when they lose it. I don't know who's pony you have in the race, maybe it's Catholic. But if you're rating the whacky, you have one.

Quite the contrary. I'm an atheist who walked away from Catholicism for a bunch of reasons in the 1980's, and I find it all a little whacky.

But Mormonism is in its own little category, because the fraud is so obvious. Catholicism is the cumulation of thousands of years of collective beliefs. Mormonism is a fraud, perpetrated by one man- Joseph Smith. There was not a Pope who got up one day and said, "I'm going to make up a bunch of stuff to fool stupid people". But that's Smith's story in a nutshell.

 

[kaz]

Romney is in a worse position than McCain because McCain was a war hero respected by both sides, a man who won praise for decades of service to his country. Romney is a guy who got rich screwing working people when nearly every working person has been screwed.

Funny. You don't get the Tea Party and get how many people's disenchantment with the Republican party is over their lack of fiscal conservatism do you? We all sat on our hands over McCain even though we personally respected him. Bush was a horrible spender and McCain only promised MOS. Romney's not a home run for us for sure. But we were so burned out with W's spending and now we're burned out over Obama's.

It isn't just the whacked out extreme of Christianity that will have issues with Romney's Mormonism

I know, I said the left does too. He's a Republican, so the party of tolerance won't be. But they want him to be nominated because like you they are full of blind hatred.

I've never doubted that they were "Christians".

Yet you've repeatedly stated you would never vote for one. Which demonstrates again the first point, that you don't get fiscal conservatism. A true fiscal conservative wouldn't give a rat's ass if he's Clint Eastwood or Pee Wee Herman. It's about reducing the choke hold the government has on our economy and our lives. For you it's about what he thinks when he goes to church.

But even the extreme Christian whackos are going to have to vote for a Marxist to vote against him, and a whole lot of you aren't going to do that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The teacher's unions wouldn't have to exist if teachers were paid good salaries with good benefits without having to fight for every nickel.

You know what, my mom was an art teacher at a Catholic School for 14 years (before the cancer got her). She didn't belong to a union. She didn't get great benefits. She was a teacher because she was dedicated. People told me years later that they became professional artists because of things my mom taught them. Of course, my dad was a union guy and got those things.

My problem with public sector unions is that unlike private sector unions, (who are just arguing over the owners over a fair division of the fruits of the labors), they are demanding from US what the terms of their employment should be. We have already set those terms in elections. This is the standard of performance we expect. We expect our kids to be able to read after you've been working on them for 14 years. That's not an unreasonable performance expectation.

Except to a teacher's union.

We also expect that if a teacher molests a child, he should be fired that day. That's a reasonable expectation.

Except to a teacher's union.

Teachers are underpaid/under-compensated in America by every reasonable measure, whether it be by their own education, by the importance and value of their work, etc., etc.

If you don't value educators, you don't value education. If you don't value education, then don't complain when the nations who do kick your ass in the global economy.

 

[kaz]

Teachers are underpaid/under-compensated in America by every reasonable measure, whether it be by their own education, by the importance and value of their work, etc., etc.

If you don't value educators, you don't value education. If you don't value education, then don't complain when the nations who do kick your ass in the global economy.

By far, the biggest problem with our educational system is that there is zero accountability for bad government teachers. Yeah, there are good ones. But they have to chose to be good. If you don't know that, you either don't have children in government schools or you're just a dogmite who will subjugate any fact to your political views.

 

[JoeB131]

Teachers are underpaid/under-compensated in America by every reasonable measure, whether it be by their own education, by the importance and value of their work, etc., etc.

If you don't value educators, you don't value education. If you don't value education, then don't complain when the nations who do kick your ass in the global economy.

That works on the assumption that we aren't paying teachers well compared to the rest of the world. That's simply not true. Only 4 nations are paying their teachers marginally more than we do on average.

After 15 Years > Primary Teacher Salary statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

Most pay their teachers less.

No, the problem is that the unions have made mediocrity the standard in education...

 

[JoeB131]

Romney is in a worse position than McCain because McCain was a war hero respected by both sides, a man who won praise for decades of service to his country. Romney is a guy who got rich screwing working people when nearly every working person has been screwed.

Funny. You don't get the Tea Party and get how many people's disenchantment with the Republican party is over their lack of fiscal conservatism do you? We all sat on our hands over McCain even though we personally respected him. Bush was a horrible spender and McCain only promised MOS. Romney's not a home run for us for sure. But we were so burned out with W's spending and now we're burned out over Obama's.

It isn't just the whacked out extreme of Christianity that will have issues with Romney's Mormonism

I know, I said the left does too. He's a Republican, so the party of tolerance won't be. But they want him to be nominated because like you they are full of blind hatred.

I've never doubted that they were "Christians".

Yet you've repeatedly stated you would never vote for one. Which demonstrates again the first point, that you don't get fiscal conservatism. A true fiscal conservative wouldn't give a rat's ass if he's Clint Eastwood or Pee Wee Herman. It's about reducing the choke hold the government has on our economy and our lives. For you it's about what he thinks when he goes to church.

But even the extreme Christian whackos are going to have to vote for a Marxist to vote against him, and a whole lot of you aren't going to do that.

Please don't mistake me for some Tea Partier who only wants to shrink government. I consider the man's character to be important as well.

If that were my primary issue, I'd still vote against Romney. As governor, he created the biggest liability in the state's history.