Why JFKs Roman Catholic faith is ns not the same as Romneys Mormanism

[Gadawg73]

Joe thinks owners do not work.
Now I know why the unions support Democrats. They have not a clue as to the real world.

 

[drippinhun]

I see so many Mormons serving alcohol and running the tables in Las Vegas. Yet, their religion says gambling and alcohol is evil and not to partake. But it's okay to plow non-Mormons with both? I have a real problem with that mindset.

 

[JoeB131]

You are about as dumb as a box of rocks.
You bring nothing to the table, contribute nothing as capital to the business, take no risk whatsoever, work a set number of hours each and every week, demand extra pay for a second over 40 hours a week, extort benefit packages, threaten-intimidate and assault any other worker that dare work when you won't and then want the same rights as the owners.
You already have all the damn rights the spoiled brats you are. No wonder you are bitching.

I think you need to take one of these.



I disagree that I bring nothing to the table. I keep a spreadsheet I call "HAIJBA" on file. (HOw Awesome is Joe B, Anway). It documents every saving and deal I have found for my current employer as a buyer. Some of them because I brought knowledge from previous jobs on how to do things better. Others because I just spotted oppurtunities by being observant or developing relationships with vendors. It's just a few dollars shy of $400K right now.

But the fact is, my employer could fire me tomorrow. Or move my job to Asia. That's what happens when you give up your rights as a worker and your government is on their side and not yours.

The problem with the "Fuck the workers, I can always find someone cheaper, and then fire him and find someone cheaper, still" mentality is that it is ultimately self destructive. No good wages, no consumer demand. No consumer demand, no jobs or business.

We enjoyed our greatest prosperity when the workforce had large union representation. Workers got good wages, employers made profits, and there was no way like the American way (at least if you were white.)

What's happened to us since? We've forgotten that Greed is a sin.

 

[JoeB131]

I see so many Mormons serving alcohol and running the tables in Las Vegas. Yet, their religion says gambling and alcohol is evil and not to partake. But it's okay to plow non-Mormons with both? I have a real problem with that mindset.

That does strike me as a bit hypocritical. I think the behavior is wrong, but I'll still make money off of it.

 

[drippinhun]

The problem with the "Fuck the workers, I can always find someone cheaper, and then fire him and find someone cheaper, still" mentality is that it is ultimately self destructive. No good wages, no consumer demand. No consumer demand, no jobs or business.

We enjoyed our greatest prosperity when the workforce had large union representation. Workers got good wages, employers made profits, and there was no way like the American way (at least if you were white.)

What's happened to us since? We've forgotten that Greed is a sin.

It is a fact that the economy has always performed best when there is the least amount of income disparity.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Thank heavens for the teachers, and even to an extent for the Kazes because they are at least involved if not quite comprehending the problem.

So I don't comprehend that we need to throw more money at the problem, which is the only solution Democrats can ever come up with. And when it doesn't work, you then say it's because we didn't throw enough money at the problem and we need to throw more. Without accountability, the only thing that raising teacher paychecks will accomplish is they will take home more money. You may have noticed that we can't exactly afford that right now without getting more for it. Maybe you didn't...

So the law of supply and demand doesn't work for teachers? You can't get better people into the profession if you pay more and treat them with greater respect and hold them in higher esteem?

Tell that to the people of Finland, South Korea, or Singapore. Those countries produce the best educated students.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thank heavens for the teachers, and even to an extent for the Kazes because they are at least involved if not quite comprehending the problem.

So I don't comprehend that we need to throw more money at the problem, which is the only solution Democrats can ever come up with. And when it doesn't work, you then say it's because we didn't throw enough money at the problem and we need to throw more. Without accountability, the only thing that raising teacher paychecks will accomplish is they will take home more money. You may have noticed that we can't exactly afford that right now without getting more for it. Maybe you didn't...

So the law of supply and demand doesn't work for teachers? You can't get better people into the profession if you pay more and treat them with greater respect and hold them in higher esteem?

Tell that to the people of Finland, South Korea, or Singapore. Those countries produce the best educated students.

Finland's teachers are unionized, SK and S's are not. The keys are committed parents.

Get to work, Kaz.

 

[Unkotare]

Well, uh, no, you said you are an owner. Not the same thing.

I just think the workers should have as many rights as the owners... I know that's a crazy concept and stuff, but there it is...

Yeah, yeah, comrade, you have spewed your Marxist bullshit more than enough already.

 

[Unkotare]

Tell that to the people of Finland, South Korea, or Singapore. Those countries produce the best educated students.

You lefties would NOT want South Korea's educational system. Neither do a lot of South Koreans, as they send their children to the US in droves to be educated.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The US Roman Catholic Church and theEpiscopals have been trying to merge for over a decade.

Virually no dif between the 2 faiths -

And? This equates to Romney's beliefs as an individual...?

My point is that JFKsfaith was a non-issue.

America was a Christian nation

Are you goingto tell me that Catholic is not Christian????

Mormons are Christians too. They believe in Jesus Christ, God and the Bible, just like all Christians. They believe one is saved through jesus just like all Christians.

 

[JoeB131]

And? This equates to Romney's beliefs as an individual...?

My point is that JFKsfaith was a non-issue.

America was a Christian nation

Are you goingto tell me that Catholic is not Christian????

Mormons are Christians too. They believe in Jesus Christ, God and the Bible, just like all Christians. They believe one is saved through jesus just like all Christians.

But they believe some additional things, too.

Like Jesus and Satan were brothers among many sons of God.

That God was Adam.

That they rule a planet called Kolob.

I mean, it's really 19th century Scientology...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Well, uh, no, you said you are an owner. Not the same thing.

I just think the workers should have as many rights as the owners... I know that's a crazy concept and stuff, but there it is...

Yeah, yeah, comrade, you have spewed your Marxist bullshit more than enough already.

Unkotare, based on his statement above, believes Jefferson would be a Marxist by his reasoning, for TJ believed government should not give special advantage to capital. A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicity. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address.

Or Abraham Lincoln. They hold that labor is prior to, and independent of, capital; that, in fact, capital is the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed; that labor can exist without capital, but that capital could never have existed without labor. Hence they hold that labor is the superior – greatly the superior – of capital. They do not deny that there is, and probably always will be, a relation between labor and capital. The error, as they hold, is in assuming that the whole labor of the world exists within that relation. From: Lincoln, Abraham. "Annual Address Before the Wisconsin State Agricultural Society, at Milwaukee, Wisconsin, September 30, 1859." The Complete Works of Abraham Lincoln, vol. 5. Eds. John G. Nicolay and John Hay. New York: Francis D. Tandy Company, 1894.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Tell that to the people of Finland, South Korea, or Singapore. Those countries produce the best educated students.

You lefties would NOT want South Korea's educational system. Neither do a lot of South Koreans, as they send their children to the US in droves to be educated.

You truly know not of what you talk. Go learn something before you talk again. I mean it, you have not a clue. What you have said here is absolutely worthless. You are not a thinking conservative, just a reactionary babble mouth.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

My point is that JFKsfaith was a non-issue.

America was a Christian nation

Are you goingto tell me that Catholic is not Christian????

Mormons are Christians too. They believe in Jesus Christ, God and the Bible, just like all Christians. They believe one is saved through jesus just like all Christians.

But they believe some additional things, too.

Like Jesus and Satan were brothers among many sons of God.

That God was Adam.

That they rule a planet called Kolob.

I mean, it's really 19th century Scientology...

Catholics believe that Jesus is the first Angel , and that Satan is a fallen Angel. Sounds like they are related to me. God never actually HAD a son born to him, Jesus was his first creation upon whom he gave immense power. That is why he is called the first.

Never heard anyone tell me a human was God. Adam was a human created by God.

Catholics and Protestants believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same. Even though Jesus repeatedly stated he was NOT God. That he was the SON of God.

Most Christians won't even use God's name.

 

[Unkotare]

Tell that to the people of Finland, South Korea, or Singapore. Those countries produce the best educated students.

You lefties would NOT want South Korea's educational system. Neither do a lot of South Koreans, as they send their children to the US in droves to be educated.

You truly know not of what you talk. Go learn something before you talk again. I mean it, you have not a clue. What you have said here is absolutely worthless. You are not a thinking conservative, just a reactionary babble mouth.

Actually, I know exactly what I'm talking about. Particularly regarding the comments you chose to quote above, I know more about it than you ever will if you live to be 150.

 

[drippinhun]

Mormons are Christians too. They believe in Jesus Christ, God and the Bible, just like all Christians. They believe one is saved through jesus just like all Christians.

I found this former Mormon's statement on another website. I believe it addresses some of the apprehensions others might have about this "religion" -

OK I feel like I gotta post on this topic because I probably have the most experience on this topic on this board.

You see, I am an ex-mormon and for a short time I used to actually believe that crap (when I was young and naive).

For those of you who don't know the story, I'll try to paraphrase it for you but I gotta keep it short because it's really messed up and I've been through that phase and it wasn't pretty. Well here's the story, children's fable, whatever.

Joseph Smith (the main "dude" and prophet and actually founder of the religion) in the 1800's supposedly had God and Jesus appear to him in some forest in NY or Illinois (I forget which). Basically noone was with him so it makes it easy to tell. Before he started polygamy and stealing of other members wives (another "vision" of course), the pre-church history of Joseph involves him being thrown in jail for selling a "gold finding device" but like lots of things these records have been covered up by the church....but I digress.

In the vision, God (yeah the same old testament Jehovah, yaweh, tribal "jealous" war-god that told people to kill their sons to "test" their faith) told Joseph all the religions were wrong and to start his own. Visions told him where to find some buried gold plates in Illinois and so he found them, and some other church founder was given a "gift" for being able to read them through some device (u can't make this stuff up)...and this was an Alternate History of South America. Of course, the "plates" were never found and there's some BS story where god "took them up" or something.

OK, I have read this crap cover to cover in my youth. Bottom Line: The Book of Mormon is a chronicle of how people came from Israel or thereabouts on some boat god made them make (noah again) and one of the brothers became "evil" and so god made his skin dark...so you get Lamanites (evil dark skinned indians...just like everyone knew indians were evil in the 1800s). It then goes on to chronicle CONSTANT wars, condoned by god, between the GOOD GUYS and the BAD GUYS ad nauseum... As soon as the good guys get a little bit bad....they get their ASSES KICKED by their enemies. This is the message, lovely as it is, and I dare any mormon to say otherwise, if they do, they are ignoring their subconscious....hell, they are ignoring the text. Well after all these constant wars there is only one good guy left, (white of course) and because all his "brethren" (vomit) were bad guys they got wiped by the dark skinned heathen. Well this one guy of course was instructed to bury the plates which were the diaries of his people.

Just like the bible (which mormons also believe in, along with things like "baptism for the dead"..wearing "temple undergarments" and using them to identify the "good" mormons who gave 10% (the critical thing here) ...there is ZERO archaeological or historical evidence for these claims. Another thing on the undergarments, I lived in Utah and I heard from people in the know that if you got these on (not sure how they are visible)...you have a shoe in at most any important job interview in the state.

Some facts before I get sick from pondering the stupidity of organized religion and the sheer horror of imagining people believing this story.

1. Mormons did NOT allow blacks into the church until around the 1970s, when (you guessed it) some church leader had a vision from god telling him to do so. In fact, there are official writings (hushed up somewhat) that state that god marked Cain (the evil one) by making him black.

2. Yes they practiced polygamy and yes some (not officially condoned) still do today, in fact Joseph made some early followers give them his wife and daughters because "god" told him to do so.

3. I don't know about other "christian" religions, but I grew up mormon for a short while until I managed to free myself...but bottom line is, if you aint a baptised and 10% giving mormon you ain't going to heaven. That's a law. And the ones who get to be in the worst depths of hell (sorta like living in utah) are the ones like me who rejected the faith. I'm happily looking forward, "my friends are gonna be there too" Bon Scott.

4. OK not a fact but an amazing experience of mine: at one "sunday service" there was a death announcement followed by a speech. Not much was said about the giving, loving nature of the deceased, but only one form of giving was paramount...a relative said that the deceased requested to give a full back-log of their 10% $$, and wanted to repent for not having ponied up recently, before they died. The family was in tears about this, going on and on (as were other subsequent speakers) that now they are assured a spot in heaven. I learned nothing about the personality of the person.

I lived in Utah for a few years, and I don't know if any of you are sensitive to this, but there is a wavelength to the air when you live among fascists. There's about 2 black people in the state and they are always planning on getting the heck out next month. A good example: the only hardcore mormon next-door neighbor I had, the little couple would come over and bang on my door, not say anything just bang on it whenever I had more than 3 friends over and was listening to music, or playing music. I'm NOT talking anywhere near loud volumes. One time I went to the store (not to buy beer, you can't) and came back to find pissed-off petty tyrant little cops at my door. They proceeded to handcuff me and take me to jail "disturbing the peace". Neighbors came out that I didn't know and one of them supported me, saying they had problems with the same mormon neighbors in the past, calling them names, it was a scene. But it was a blessing in disguise, you see, once the tyrants show their faces, intelligent people start questioning reality.

OK I'm done, that's all I can stomach right now.

 

[JoeB131]

Catholics believe that Jesus is the first Angel , and that Satan is a fallen Angel. Sounds like they are related to me. God never actually HAD a son born to him, Jesus was his first creation upon whom he gave immense power. That is why he is called the first.

Never heard anyone tell me a human was God. Adam was a human created by God.

Catholics and Protestants believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same. Even though Jesus repeatedly stated he was NOT God. That he was the SON of God.

Most Christians won't even use God's name.

Actually, that's not what Catholics believe at all... what they do believe is equally absurd, tho.

 

[JoeB131]

Mormons are Christians too. They believe in Jesus Christ, God and the Bible, just like all Christians. They believe one is saved through jesus just like all Christians.

I found this former Mormon's statement on another website. I believe it addresses some of the apprehensions others might have about this "religion" -

OK I feel like I gotta post on this topic because I probably have the most experience on this topic on this board.

You see, I am an ex-mormon and for a short time I used to actually believe that crap (when I was young and naive).

For those of you who don't know the story, I'll try to paraphrase it for you but I gotta keep it short because it's really messed up and I've been through that phase and it wasn't pretty. Well here's the story, children's fable, whatever.

Joseph Smith (the main "dude" and prophet and actually founder of the religion) in the 1800's supposedly had God and Jesus appear to him in some forest in NY or Illinois (I forget which). Basically noone was with him so it makes it easy to tell. Before he started polygamy and stealing of other members wives (another "vision" of course), the pre-church history of Joseph involves him being thrown in jail for selling a "gold finding device" but like lots of things these records have been covered up by the church....but I digress.

In the vision, God (yeah the same old testament Jehovah, yaweh, tribal "jealous" war-god that told people to kill their sons to "test" their faith) told Joseph all the religions were wrong and to start his own. Visions told him where to find some buried gold plates in Illinois and so he found them, and some other church founder was given a "gift" for being able to read them through some device (u can't make this stuff up)...and this was an Alternate History of South America. Of course, the "plates" were never found and there's some BS story where god "took them up" or something.

OK, I have read this crap cover to cover in my youth. Bottom Line: The Book of Mormon is a chronicle of how people came from Israel or thereabouts on some boat god made them make (noah again) and one of the brothers became "evil" and so god made his skin dark...so you get Lamanites (evil dark skinned indians...just like everyone knew indians were evil in the 1800s). It then goes on to chronicle CONSTANT wars, condoned by god, between the GOOD GUYS and the BAD GUYS ad nauseum... As soon as the good guys get a little bit bad....they get their ASSES KICKED by their enemies. This is the message, lovely as it is, and I dare any mormon to say otherwise, if they do, they are ignoring their subconscious....hell, they are ignoring the text. Well after all these constant wars there is only one good guy left, (white of course) and because all his "brethren" (vomit) were bad guys they got wiped by the dark skinned heathen. Well this one guy of course was instructed to bury the plates which were the diaries of his people.

Just like the bible (which mormons also believe in, along with things like "baptism for the dead"..wearing "temple undergarments" and using them to identify the "good" mormons who gave 10% (the critical thing here) ...there is ZERO archaeological or historical evidence for these claims. Another thing on the undergarments, I lived in Utah and I heard from people in the know that if you got these on (not sure how they are visible)...you have a shoe in at most any important job interview in the state.

Some facts before I get sick from pondering the stupidity of organized religion and the sheer horror of imagining people believing this story.

1. Mormons did NOT allow blacks into the church until around the 1970s, when (you guessed it) some church leader had a vision from god telling him to do so. In fact, there are official writings (hushed up somewhat) that state that god marked Cain (the evil one) by making him black.

2. Yes they practiced polygamy and yes some (not officially condoned) still do today, in fact Joseph made some early followers give them his wife and daughters because "god" told him to do so.

3. I don't know about other "christian" religions, but I grew up mormon for a short while until I managed to free myself...but bottom line is, if you aint a baptised and 10% giving mormon you ain't going to heaven. That's a law. And the ones who get to be in the worst depths of hell (sorta like living in utah) are the ones like me who rejected the faith. I'm happily looking forward, "my friends are gonna be there too" Bon Scott.

4. OK not a fact but an amazing experience of mine: at one "sunday service" there was a death announcement followed by a speech. Not much was said about the giving, loving nature of the deceased, but only one form of giving was paramount...a relative said that the deceased requested to give a full back-log of their 10% $$, and wanted to repent for not having ponied up recently, before they died. The family was in tears about this, going on and on (as were other subsequent speakers) that now they are assured a spot in heaven. I learned nothing about the personality of the person.

I lived in Utah for a few years, and I don't know if any of you are sensitive to this, but there is a wavelength to the air when you live among fascists. There's about 2 black people in the state and they are always planning on getting the heck out next month. A good example: the only hardcore mormon next-door neighbor I had, the little couple would come over and bang on my door, not say anything just bang on it whenever I had more than 3 friends over and was listening to music, or playing music. I'm NOT talking anywhere near loud volumes. One time I went to the store (not to buy beer, you can't) and came back to find pissed-off petty tyrant little cops at my door. They proceeded to handcuff me and take me to jail "disturbing the peace". Neighbors came out that I didn't know and one of them supported me, saying they had problems with the same mormon neighbors in the past, calling them names, it was a scene. But it was a blessing in disguise, you see, once the tyrants show their faces, intelligent people start questioning reality.

OK I'm done, that's all I can stomach right now.

Mostly correct. Except that the incidents that the writer says happened in IL actually occured in New York. (Smith's visions, finding the Golden Plates.)

So, yeah, I'm always amazed by people like Snarky who think the GOP is too religious, and wants toput these nuts in charge.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You lefties would NOT want South Korea's educational system. Neither do a lot of South Koreans, as they send their children to the US in droves to be educated.

You truly know not of what you talk. Go learn something before you talk again. I mean it, you have not a clue. What you have said here is absolutely worthless. You are not a thinking conservative, just a reactionary babble mouth.

Actually, I know exactly what I'm talking about. Particularly regarding the comments you chose to quote above, I know more about it than you ever will if you live to be 150.

No, you don't. I was involved with the SK school system to an extent when stationed in Korea. What a great school system. I have studied Finland's somewhat, and I am impressed.

It is obvious that you simply react, you don't think, you simply blather, Unkotare.

 

[Gadawg73]

You are about as dumb as a box of rocks.
You bring nothing to the table, contribute nothing as capital to the business, take no risk whatsoever, work a set number of hours each and every week, demand extra pay for a second over 40 hours a week, extort benefit packages, threaten-intimidate and assault any other worker that dare work when you won't and then want the same rights as the owners.
You already have all the damn rights the spoiled brats you are. No wonder you are bitching.

I think you need to take one of these.



I disagree that I bring nothing to the table. I keep a spreadsheet I call "HAIJBA" on file. (HOw Awesome is Joe B, Anway). It documents every saving and deal I have found for my current employer as a buyer. Some of them because I brought knowledge from previous jobs on how to do things better. Others because I just spotted oppurtunities by being observant or developing relationships with vendors. It's just a few dollars shy of $400K right now.

But the fact is, my employer could fire me tomorrow. Or move my job to Asia. That's what happens when you give up your rights as a worker and your government is on their side and not yours.

The problem with the "Fuck the workers, I can always find someone cheaper, and then fire him and find someone cheaper, still" mentality is that it is ultimately self destructive. No good wages, no consumer demand. No consumer demand, no jobs or business.

We enjoyed our greatest prosperity when the workforce had large union representation. Workers got good wages, employers made profits, and there was no way like the American way (at least if you were white.)

What's happened to us since? We've forgotten that Greed is a sin.

And you don't get paid anything for all of your good HAJIBA deeds.
Your employer is so bad he forces you to work for free and no one else will hire you.