Why judge anyone? Why can't beliefs about transgender identity be respected equally?

[emilynghiem]

That is interesting indeed.

You will not be able to get the majority you need, I think, but go for it.

Dear JakeStarkey
I don't think it takes a majority. I think it takes the right people to solve each problem most directly
and effectively. In each case, that's a minority.

Not in a democratic Republic when one of the groups are not interested in reconciliation.

Precisely JakeStarkey
If they don't want to reconcile, ie change their beliefs to accommodate the other,
then shouldn't both sides agree to SEPARATE to avoid imposing and forcing the conflict into a resolution process?

by First Amendment on free exercise of religion and not establishing laws regarding religion
Fourteenth Amendment on equal protection of the laws to all persons under state jurisdiction
Civil Rights principles of not discriminating on the basis of creed

by these three laws, where we have differences in belief,
govt should not be abused to impose one over another IN CASES WHERE PEOPLE CANNOT RECONCILE (or it's discrimination, and favoring one side's beliefs at the expense of the other)

Isn't that why liberals call for separation of church and state and freedom of choice
not to be punished because some other group has different beliefs that disagree with ours?

 

[healthmyths]

I hope so many dead bodies are found in restrooms that this asinine policy ends and saves many more lives. This started with transgendered whining. There's nothing wrong with it being open season on them.

What the hell did they ever do to you?

Actually I would have NO problem if the truly "TRANSGENDER" had their operation.
Any post-op no problem. Any Pre-op go to the restroom that works best with your equipment!
The real problem is NOT the TRANSGENDERS though. It is this policy of allowing sexual perverts to potentially stand naked in a high school girls shower leering at my granddaughter and her friends. This is where the policy is SICK! And NOT supported.
Simple test of any "MAN" going into a women's restroom... Check if they have the equipment as a man. Can not use restroom till equipment is removed. My goodness how many public facilities allow hand guns to be present? Same issue here. If you have the equipment then go to the appropriate bathroom. If not GET your trans-operation done!

 

[Freewill]

What is wrong with people having conflicting beliefs about transgender identity.
To some people it's internal, and not a choice.
To others it's about external appearance, a behavioral choice.
Why not treat both approaches as creeds, and weigh and respect them equally under law?
Is that really too much to ask?

If Hindus, Muslims and Vegans don't agree on not eating beef, pork or no meat at all;
does this require govt to pass a policy imposing one and excluding another? For matters of beliefs or creeds, what happened to govt generally staying out of conflicts and letting people work it out and decide for themselves how to exercise their beliefs without stepping on each other's boundaries.

Do we see Lutherans suing to force Catholics to open up their communions to everyone to avoid discrimination? The policy of letting institutions work out their own systems works in private; why can't bathroom policies be treated as personal. Sure, where public institutions are involved, nobody should be discriminated against, but that goes both ways; a policy that seeks to CORRECT an issue of discrimination can't impose a different one and be pushed as a solution.

If a couple is the only Vegan at a dinner is there anything wrong with preparing a meal differently for that couple, WITHOUT changing the whole menu for all the other guests so they are all treated the same?

Let's compare some other scenarios, tell me if you see the similarities or not:

When Muslims want to pray at work, they may request a special arrangement with their management to have a quiet place to pray 5 times a day.
Does this mean EVERYONE has to be subject to that? No. it's kept in private.
There is nothing shameful about being different, and doing something in a private
room or corner that nobody else has to ask for and do.

If Christians want to express or share their beliefs in ways that affect others, people have the right to say NO I don't feel comfortable. Don't impose that on me in public, keep it in private. This isn't considered discrimination but courtesy to understand other people may not take it the same way it is meant.

Some people don't get how is it imposing on Christians to ask them to keep their ways to themselves. But some of their belief is based on duty to share with others, and they feel excluded and a sense of loss at being denied what is natural to them as free expression and exercise. to others it is imposing and pushing religion in public.

Here isn't something similar happening? Both sides have beliefs that impact the others.
Neither side is going to get their way without infringing on the sense of security of the others. So that is why Unisex restrooms or neutral / singlestalled facilities seem the best option which don't require EITHER side to change their views or change how they act.

The rest of the debate appears to be emotional attachment and personal meaning this issue has to different people.

Since it isn't scientifically proven what is going on with transgender identity, it's all personal beliefs and faith based. So why not respect those equally and impose none, and exclude none. Allow people freedom to work out their issues they are bringing to the table. And as for the restrooms, it seems unisex restrooms don't cause any conflict, so why not remain neutral? isn't that what govt policy should be ideally, totally neutral?

The emotional and personal factors involved here are what is really causing the debates to escalate beyond repair. The facts are simple that NOTHING is proven, so it's all faith based on both sides. The sooner we can accept that, and separate our personal stakes and meaning this has to us from the actual policies that are going to work or going to fail, the better we can take steps to avoid failure and to seek what is more effective.

I hope the hoopla and upset calms down, and people rise above the personal issues at stake to work out fair policies that respect all people and restore a sense of normal standards. Thanks for letting me share, and I hope you will also! Yours truly, Emily

Think of what you are asking.

What reason does a tranny have to use a women's room? There are not urinals in women's rooms. There is nothing special to accommodate men.

Now, you want people who would like not to have to worry about a MAN using a WOMEN'S room to conform to what you believe. And you do it without regard to what women might think. And worse you veil it in a cloak of religion. It is not religion it is common decency,

There is absolutely no reason a MAN whether dressed as a woman or not can't use the men's room. None zero ziltch.

And if they are at a sporting event they maybe glad they can.

 

[Freewill]

Government needs to keep their noses out of it and let the businesses and customers of those businesses decide if they want to shop there due to THEIR store policies..not the governments.

Don't like targets letting men use ladies changing rooms? Simple. Don't shop there. End of story. I don't like that policy...so no. I will take my business elsewhere. BUT...if the government forces it on ALL businesses, on cannot pick and choose which store to start shopping at because ALL are FORCED to the same policy.
This includes transgenders, too. THEY can go to a business that allows unisex restrooms and changing rooms but they should not be able to sue and FORCE them to accept it. It's all choice.

Or should be.

Do you argue the same way when a person refuses to bake a cake?

 

[GWV5903]

GWV5903 may think he grasps man's laws but clearly has forgotten that Jesus Christ brought the greatest gift of all, the Grace of Love.

I am well aware of what Christ did for me, I am also well aware that man can pervert the law to fit their wants...

You have no idea of what, where and when Christ worked through me...

My spiritual journey is mine, no one else's, that is something only I can experience with the Holy Spirit, you have no understanding of what that is or how I arrived here...

God judges morality and man but behavior.

You have no idea how anyone behaves other than yourself, all everyone has to do is ask for his forgiveness, not mine nor yours...

The thief is no different, the liar is no different, the adulterer is no different...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course I can, based on your comments, make some rational judgments.

Please do not counsel others until you have your life under control.

 

[Slyhunter]

People don't want their 8 year old girl to know what a dick looks like. What is so hard to understand about that.

 

[alpine]

What is wrong with people having conflicting beliefs about transgender identity.
To some people it's internal, and not a choice.
To others it's about external appearance, a behavioral choice.
Why not treat both approaches as creeds, and weigh and respect them equally under law?
Is that really too much to ask?

If Hindus, Muslims and Vegans don't agree on not eating beef, pork or no meat at all;
does this require govt to pass a policy imposing one and excluding another? For matters of beliefs or creeds, what happened to govt generally staying out of conflicts and letting people work it out and decide for themselves how to exercise their beliefs without stepping on each other's boundaries.

Do we see Lutherans suing to force Catholics to open up their communions to everyone to avoid discrimination? The policy of letting institutions work out their own systems works in private; why can't bathroom policies be treated as personal. Sure, where public institutions are involved, nobody should be discriminated against, but that goes both ways; a policy that seeks to CORRECT an issue of discrimination can't impose a different one and be pushed as a solution.

If a couple is the only Vegan at a dinner is there anything wrong with preparing a meal differently for that couple, WITHOUT changing the whole menu for all the other guests so they are all treated the same?

Let's compare some other scenarios, tell me if you see the similarities or not:

When Muslims want to pray at work, they may request a special arrangement with their management to have a quiet place to pray 5 times a day.
Does this mean EVERYONE has to be subject to that? No. it's kept in private.
There is nothing shameful about being different, and doing something in a private
room or corner that nobody else has to ask for and do.

If Christians want to express or share their beliefs in ways that affect others, people have the right to say NO I don't feel comfortable. Don't impose that on me in public, keep it in private. This isn't considered discrimination but courtesy to understand other people may not take it the same way it is meant.

Some people don't get how is it imposing on Christians to ask them to keep their ways to themselves. But some of their belief is based on duty to share with others, and they feel excluded and a sense of loss at being denied what is natural to them as free expression and exercise. to others it is imposing and pushing religion in public.

Here isn't something similar happening? Both sides have beliefs that impact the others.
Neither side is going to get their way without infringing on the sense of security of the others. So that is why Unisex restrooms or neutral / singlestalled facilities seem the best option which don't require EITHER side to change their views or change how they act.

The rest of the debate appears to be emotional attachment and personal meaning this issue has to different people.

Since it isn't scientifically proven what is going on with transgender identity, it's all personal beliefs and faith based. So why not respect those equally and impose none, and exclude none. Allow people freedom to work out their issues they are bringing to the table. And as for the restrooms, it seems unisex restrooms don't cause any conflict, so why not remain neutral? isn't that what govt policy should be ideally, totally neutral?

The emotional and personal factors involved here are what is really causing the debates to escalate beyond repair. The facts are simple that NOTHING is proven, so it's all faith based on both sides. The sooner we can accept that, and separate our personal stakes and meaning this has to us from the actual policies that are going to work or going to fail, the better we can take steps to avoid failure and to seek what is more effective.

I hope the hoopla and upset calms down, and people rise above the personal issues at stake to work out fair policies that respect all people and restore a sense of normal standards. Thanks for letting me share, and I hope you will also! Yours truly, Emily

Why respect a mental illness?

So we shouldn't respect you?

 

[Indeependent]

Why can't we be intimate with canine cadavers?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Go ahead.

 

[emilynghiem]

And this is an example of the ignorance and stupidity common to most on the right, and the propensity of most on the right to lie.
In this case the idiotic lie that those transgender try to ‘force’ anything on anyone.

Dear C_Clayton_Jones
One side keeps forcing the idea that all such cases are unnatural, sick and can and should change.
One side keeps forcing the idea that no such cases are a choice, it can't be helped or changed.

Where is the understanding that SOME cases are unnatural some are not.
SOME cases can be changed, and some cannot?

That's the truth -- there are all types of cases out there, and they can't be assumed to be all the same!
So that's why both sides take offense, when the other pushes ONE theory thinking that applies to all.

1. they are both faith based, because neither side is proven
2. neither assumption applies to all cases, because some are exceptions and fall under the other type
3. so they both are right in their COMPLAINTS of being discriminated against by the other,
but they are both WRONG where they force their views on each other and are equally guilty of what they complain of!

 

[GWV5903]

Of course I can, based on your comments, make some rational judgments.

Flaky, you have no idea how to make rational decisions, much less judgments, LMAO...

Please do not counsel others until you have your life under control.

They need to get another fortune teller in your circus, your abilities are non existent...

Learn to keep your head out of the elephants ass...

 

[G.T.]

Having a "belief" regarding transgenders at all is ALREADYJUDGING THEM.

So, useless thread.

 

[Czernobog]

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course I can, based on your comments, make some rational judgments.

Flaky, you have no idea how to make rational decisions, much less judgments, LMAO...

Please do not counsel others until you have your life under control.

They need to get another fortune teller in your circus, your abilities are non existent...Learn to keep your head out of the elephants ass...

GWV pretends to be rational and has difficulty being counseled.

 

[Slyhunter]

The law can't be written just for those in this picture, it has to be a black and white law which would allow men who prey on women to use the law to accommodate their needs.

 

[Czernobog]

The law can't be written just for those in this picture, it has to be a black and white law which would allow men who prey on women to use the law to accommodate their needs.

Except it is entirely about those in the picture. Those in the picture have been using the bathrooms with which they identify for years, and no one even noticed until some social conservative thought this would make a good new excuse to attack people who are different, since the whole "gay marriage" thing kinda blew up in their faces, and they lost that fight.

 

[emilynghiem]

Having a "belief" regarding transgenders at all is ALREADYJUDGING THEM.

So, useless thread.

Dear G.T. I'm saying the beliefs are on BOTH sides, because NEITHER side
has proven their positions scientifically. Where it's a private matter, what business
does anyone have going in, case by case, and medically proving WHICH ones are
mentally ill, which are caused by abuse, which are natural and healthy for the person,
which are pedophile or criminal predatory addiction and a danger to the public, etc.

But that's the standard govt requires on arguments if they are going to be secular and public
policy, not private and faith-based.
G.T. this is to protect BOTH sides from each other to
RECOGNIZE the arguments are FAITH BASED.

Nobody has proven what causes or changes orientation and transgender identity.
All faith based, G.T. So why not invoke the law to protect both sides equally,
keep the conflicts of beliefs in private, and not abuse govt to attack or defend either side?
How is that helping the issue of bullying to reward and encourage more bullying behavior?
Sorry G.T. but I don't condone this sidetaking over issues of BELIEF that should remain
FREE CHOICE. the same that is true about Christianity and people's beliefs about that,
should be respected for homosexuality and transgender identity and people's beliefs about that.

Either prove it scientifically where there is AGREEMENT so the public agrees on policy,
or keep it in private. Agree on neutral, single stalled, and unisex facilities and work
the rest out in private so people have free choice whether to change their beliefs on either side!
Now that's showing respect for civil liberties, religious freedom and NOT discriminating by creed.

Thanks G.T. I know you are trying to be fair, as you have always pushed with me. You likely have as much trouble
understanding the beliefs on the right, as the people on the right understand the beliefs on the left.
both are painted in the mainstream as wrong by the other, and it's hard to see through the layers of paint to see the true colors underneath;
it's more than just black and white but a lot more depth to the spectrum, broad range of pixels if we go into details.
We are really missing the bigger picture if we don't dig deep enough to understand where each other is really coming from.
I hope more of that "comes out" in the process.

 

[GWV5903]

Of course I can, based on your comments, make some rational judgments.

Flaky, you have no idea how to make rational decisions, much less judgments, LMAO...

Please do not counsel others until you have your life under control.

They need to get another fortune teller in your circus, your abilities are non existent...Learn to keep your head out of the elephants ass...

GWV pretends to be rational and has difficulty being counseled.

View attachment 75948

It's good to see you confirm you're clueless, now can you sit up and beg?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course I can, based on your comments, make some rational judgments.

Flaky, you have no idea how to make rational decisions, much less judgments, LMAO...

Please do not counsel others until you have your life under control.

They need to get another fortune teller in your circus, your abilities are non existent...Learn to keep your head out of the elephants ass...

GWV pretends to be rational and has difficulty being counseled.

View attachment 75948

It's good to see you confirm you're clueless, now can you sit up and beg?

Get over yourself, because you are going to have to get over this.