Why Republican's Position is so Weak

[TemplarKormac]

Personal responsibility in this case would involve breaking the law, in this case the ACA. I'll gladly pay a fine instead of being held to the fire by a disastrous healthcare law.

Good. Pay your fine because you don't want to accept personal responsibility for buying health care. And when you get sick the rest of us will have to pay your bills for you.

So don't lecture me on personal responsibility if you fail to accept yours. That makes you a complete hypocrite.

.

WTF?
MANY people already pay OUT OF POCKET for their health care so they aren't BEHOLDEN to insurance companies OR this FASCIST FEDERAL GOVERNMENT which has no RIGHT to tell us what we should OR shouldn't HAVE or else BE FINED..
What damn country do we live in

A tyrannical one, at the moment.

 

[hazlnut]

1. They have no alternative - They say "Obamacare is awful, terrible, bad bad bad!!" yet they have no alternative system ready, they suggest we go back to the status quo which we all know is awful and terribly expensive.

2. They have no unified voice - John Boehner says "yes" to the CR bill without ACA in it back in june, then he turns around and puts ACA into the bill. The mainstream Repubs want to go one way, the tea party wants to go another. How far Ted Cruz is willing to go differs from how far John Mccain wants to go.

3. They have nothing to offer - Like it or not, Obama is in the white house and there are 54 democratic senators in the Senate Chamber. The GOP needs their okay to shut it down, how do they get that okay? what do they give up for that yes vote?? They have ~NOTHING~. Funding the government or raising the debt limit are not things to be "offered" they're part of doing your job as a congressman.

4. The law is going forward anyway - Obstruction for the past 3 years didn't stop it, Shutting down the government didn't stop it. It will not be stopped, it's coming like it or not. Once the technical issues are dealt with it will continue powering along, and there isn't any catastrophic events happening so the "ACA Boogeyman" is becoming a very hard sell.

5. The law has been through enough - Passing congress, getting president's approval, verified by the supreme court, Obama re-elected in 2012...how much more do they want? The law hasn't even been fully implemented so just saying "it's going to be terrible" isn't a good selling point.

6. and finally...Polls - Every poll puts the blame on Republicans, even the best case polls puts them behind "but not by all that much!" and usually it's because of wording that they get "close" to being tied. The public is against them. It's a tremendously difficult image to sell and they aren't selling it. Over the course of the shutdown the polling numbers have only gotten worse and most likely will continue to degrade, which is probably what lead Boehner to finally accept the temp raise in the debt limit, which I see as the beginning of the end.

In conclusion...the Republicans are basically running on tea party steam and hot air to keep this crusade going, and it will only last as long as the moderate republicans want it to. It's an indefensible spot to be in, one that is damaging their party and accomplishing nothing and going nowhere. The public sees this, the democrats see this, Obama sees this, even moderate GOPers see this....It. isn't. working. They're standing on a very weak podium, and the cracks are showing up everywhere.

Brilliant Post and I love your quote!!

The Tyrant with term limits -- Fox New retardation with term limits.

 

[Stephanie]

Good. Pay your fine because you don't want to accept personal responsibility for buying health care. And when you get sick the rest of us will have to pay your bills for you.

So don't lecture me on personal responsibility if you fail to accept yours. That makes you a complete hypocrite.

.

WTF?
MANY people already pay OUT OF POCKET for their health care so they aren't BEHOLDEN to insurance companies OR this FASCIST FEDERAL GOVERNMENT which has no RIGHT to tell us what we should OR shouldn't HAVE or else BE FINED..
What damn country do we live in

A tyrannical one, at the moment.

unbelievable they are still arguing FOR this fascist piece of unaffordable INSURANCE SCAM from comrade Obama...

it makes me ill...SOME of them would sell their souls for him and his dictatorship

 

[hazlnut]

Guess we'll see who get the blame when the public get a real good look at the ACA.

So far so good in Kentucky -- they LOVE IT!!

California!! LOVES IT!!


It needs fixing and tweaking, and had Romney offered up suggestions for fixing... instead of playing to the base... he might have won.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Guess we'll see who get the blame when the public get a real good look at the ACA.

So far so good in Kentucky -- they LOVE IT!!

California!! LOVES IT!!


It needs fixing and tweaking, and had Romney offered up suggestions for fixing... instead of playing to the base... he might have won.

Of course California loves it. They are the most liberal state in America.

Go figure.

 

[Stephanie]

we don't WANT that piece of garbage FIXED...if you want a fascist government, move

IF people can't afford health care YET they are going to be able to AFFORD insurance

are you people really that DUMB?

WE ALREADY have Government programs (WHERE THEY AREN'T FORCED OR BE FINED) to get into for those who can't AFFORD HEALTH CARE

You dupes are going to be the death of our FREEDOMS

 

[Edgetho]

Despite all evidence to the contrary, dimocraps are still trying to claim victory in the Syria debacle and in the Sequester show down of the first of the year.

Syria is another topic for another time. But obama lost it. Only an idiot thinks otherwise.

As to the Sequester....?

Here's what the USAToday thought about it...

Democrats lose sequester battle: Column

The whole sequestration gambit has failed, to the point where even the Washington Post's Ezra Klein admits that "the Democrats have lost on sequestration." The idea was that even the comparatively minor cuts in spending caused by the sequester would be so painful that voters would demand higher taxes rather than endure cuts in spending.

Problem was, when the spending cuts came, nobody noticed. This led the Obama administration to try to up the pain by focusing cuts in places where people might feel the pain: canceling White House tours for schoolchildren, or furloughing air traffic controllers.

That didn't work either. The tour-canceling just looked mean, and the problem with targeting air travel is that members of Congress, and their top donors, fly a lot. Huge bipartisan majorities in Congress thus quickly passed legislation forcing the FAA to make cuts elsewhere instead.

Some of you should go back a and take a look at all the 'polls' back then. Republicans were getting HAMMERED then as well.

BAD. I mean really bad. Almost as bad as now.

Now that the dust has settled from that little tiff, let's take a look at what's happened since then....

Job hiring has incrreased more than at any time during the Stuttering Clusterfuck's infestation of the White House and the Dow-Jones?

It's up Two Thousand One Hundred points since the beginning of the year when the fight started.

The S&P? It's up over 19% and the Nasdaq is up over 25%.

Just since the first of the year.

Why? Because Republicans stood their ground.

Let's hope they stand their ground here, too. Sure, they'll get beat up in the DISGUSTING FILTH of the LSM. But so what? Republicans could stand around twiddling their thumbs doing absolutely NOTHING and anything bad that happens in this Country...?

dimocrap scum and the DISGUSTING FILTH in the LSM will blame them anyway.

Republicans do things that are good for the Country. Even when it means they take a political hit.

dimocraps? Not so much

 

[Spoonman]

1. They have no alternative - They say "Obamacare is awful, terrible, bad bad bad!!" yet they have no alternative system ready, they suggest we go back to the status quo which we all know is awful and terribly expensive.

2. They have no unified voice - John Boehner says "yes" to the CR bill without ACA in it back in june, then he turns around and puts ACA into the bill. The mainstream Repubs want to go one way, the tea party wants to go another. How far Ted Cruz is willing to go differs from how far John Mccain wants to go.

3. They have nothing to offer - Like it or not, Obama is in the white house and there are 54 democratic senators in the Senate Chamber. The GOP needs their okay to shut it down, how do they get that okay? what do they give up for that yes vote?? They have ~NOTHING~. Funding the government or raising the debt limit are not things to be "offered" they're part of doing your job as a congressman.

4. The law is going forward anyway - Obstruction for the past 3 years didn't stop it, Shutting down the government didn't stop it. It will not be stopped, it's coming like it or not. Once the technical issues are dealt with it will continue powering along, and there isn't any catastrophic events happening so the "ACA Boogeyman" is becoming a very hard sell.

5. The law has been through enough - Passing congress, getting president's approval, verified by the supreme court, Obama re-elected in 2012...how much more do they want? The law hasn't even been fully implemented so just saying "it's going to be terrible" isn't a good selling point.

6. and finally...Polls - Every poll puts the blame on Republicans, even the best case polls puts them behind "but not by all that much!" and usually it's because of wording that they get "close" to being tied. The public is against them. It's a tremendously difficult image to sell and they aren't selling it. Over the course of the shutdown the polling numbers have only gotten worse and most likely will continue to degrade, which is probably what lead Boehner to finally accept the temp raise in the debt limit, which I see as the beginning of the end.

In conclusion...the Republicans are basically running on tea party steam and hot air to keep this crusade going, and it will only last as long as the moderate republicans want it to. It's an indefensible spot to be in, one that is damaging their party and accomplishing nothing and going nowhere. The public sees this, the democrats see this, Obama sees this, even moderate GOPers see this....It. isn't. working. They're standing on a very weak podium, and the cracks are showing up everywhere.

think about it. the early polls where highly against the republicans putting the blame on them. as time goes on, the blame is becoming more equal in the polls. just like gun control which democrats thought would be a sure victory for them after sandy hook, the shut down will fail on you too

as i was saying, the tide is turning on you. once again, liberals have totally misread the real feelings of americans

Fire 'em! Majority want to toss entire Congress: Poll - Yahoo Finance

 

[Edgetho]

we don't WANT that piece of garbage FIXED...if you want a fascist government, move

IF people can't afford health care YET they are going to be able to AFFORD insurance

are you people really that DUMB?

WE ALREADY have Government programs (WHERE THEY AREN'T FORCED OR BE FINED) to get into for those who can't AFFORD HEALTH CARE

You dupes are going to be the death of our FREEDOMS

That IS their intention

 

[bendog]

Back to the OP, I wonder what real conservatives will be able to extract from the dems for the debt increase? I doubt much at this point.

And while the TPM was selling "snake Oil" that somehow we could still get rid of Obamacare without taking the senate and WH, this really was Boehner's miscalculation. Leave aside the fact that Faux and talk radio fed the irrationality of how a bill is passed, and how money is appropriated.

Boehner thought the debt limit gave conservatives more leverage with default than the CR did with a shutdown. That is proven to be a strategic blunder. And really a moral and civic one as well, which is why the chamber of commerce and Wall St intervened. You do not fck with the global economy and threaten another Lehman type meltdown for a health care policy that is flawed, and has outraged a few that are appalled that they must pay a tax or secure insurance so the govt doesn't have to pay if they get sick and can't afford chemo.

Until Gingrich, we really didn't screw around with the debt limit. I suspect Boehner is at best a non-entity in any negotions, and it will be Paul Ryan and Cantor at bat for the gop.

Kaz's position on mandatory spending actually makes some sense if viewed under the CR lense. I don't see why a party in congress shouldn't be able to say "hold on a minute, either we defund some of this stuff, or we will defund it all." Once a party ties "some of this stuff" to a specific program, be it the ACA or agricultural supports, then the majority of voters may ask "why all this angst over some welfare for Archer Daniels, which we don't really like, but let's address that without hurting military widows and orphans...."

But, if we're talking about spending ourselves into the third world, instead of a questionable health or agricultural policy, then I'd think a political party might claim some moral/civil highground

 

[amrchaos]

Guess we'll see who get the blame when the public get a real good look at the ACA.

I think the best strat is to have the public look and experience the ACA without any other BS going on.

That way the reaction would be most politically beneficial to the Republicans. Instead, we have Tea Party Patriots screaming "let us default" , Moderate Republicans trying to negotiate, and Democrats refusing to budge on any offer because they know it will only help the opposition if they do no matter what they accept.

 

[Montecresto]

You lost two elections. Get the f over it. Personally I didn't like Obamacare ... but it's fkcing OVER

We live in a representative Republic. Nothing is over. Because what we voted for last year can be repealed this year. What we voted against this year can be passed next year.

You act like laws cannot and do not change. That's precisely the whole point of the legislature.

ACA is bad law. Everyone knows it's bad law. Why the heck should we stand aside and let real people be hurt by those law when we can overturn it?

If you're thinking republicans will come in there and repeal PPACA, you are mistaken, that is NOT going to happen. We may see a tweak here and a tweak there, but it is here to stay.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You lost two elections. Get the f over it. Personally I didn't like Obamacare ... but it's fkcing OVER

We live in a representative Republic. Nothing is over. Because what we voted for last year can be repealed this year. What we voted against this year can be passed next year.

You act like laws cannot and do not change. That's precisely the whole point of the legislature.

ACA is bad law. Everyone knows it's bad law. Why the heck should we stand aside and let real people be hurt by those law when we can overturn it?

If you're thinking republicans will come in there and repeal PPACA, you are mistaken, that is NOT going to happen. We may see a tweak here and a tweak there, but it is here to stay.

Nope.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UcWNqPinzKg]Will Oklahoma Suit Kill Obamacare? Dick Morris TV: Lunch ALERT! - YouTube[/ame]

http://www.healthcarelawsuits.org/d....ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2106789

http://freebeacon.com/lawsuit-challenging-obamacare-subsidies-moves-forward/

 

[Montecresto]

It's not going away.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It's not going away.

Says you.

 

[DaGoose]

Personal responsibility in this case would involve breaking the law, in this case the ACA. I'll gladly pay a fine instead of being held to the fire by a disastrous healthcare law.

Good. Pay your fine because you don't want to accept personal responsibility for buying health care. And when you get sick the rest of us will have to pay your bills for you.

So don't lecture me on personal responsibility if you fail to accept yours. That makes you a complete hypocrite.

.

Fuck you and fuck this tyrannical government. I will be damned before I enslave myself to an unjust law!

When I get sick, I'll pay my own damned bills. So shut your mouth. Don't lecture me about any responsibility when you and your ilk are the ones preaching personal apathy to millions upon millions during major elections. Seems the hypocrisy lies with you, and your entitlement programs.

It all sounds good and well until you get hit with a $100k+ hospital bill. Then you'll fall back and file for bankruptcy and force the rest of us to pay YOUR fucking bill because you simply don't want to be responsible enough to buy health insurance.

Good job, hypocrite.

By the way...I thought you said you were going to tuck tail and run away crying in post #38? I guess that was just another lie from a liar.

.

 

[rightwinger]

We live in a representative Republic. Nothing is over. Because what we voted for last year can be repealed this year. What we voted against this year can be passed next year.

You act like laws cannot and do not change. That's precisely the whole point of the legislature.

ACA is bad law. Everyone knows it's bad law. Why the heck should we stand aside and let real people be hurt by those law when we can overturn it?

If you're thinking republicans will come in there and repeal PPACA, you are mistaken, that is NOT going to happen. We may see a tweak here and a tweak there, but it is here to stay.

Nope.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UcWNqPinzKg]Will Oklahoma Suit Kill Obamacare? Dick Morris TV: Lunch ALERT! - YouTube[/ame]

Pruitt v. Sebelius (Oklahoma Case) :: Health Care Lawsuits

Lawsuit Challenging Obamacare Subsidies Moves Forward | Washington Free Beacon

As a conservative, you need to stop listening to what Dick Morris says is going to happen

 

[TemplarKormac]

Good. Pay your fine because you don't want to accept personal responsibility for buying health care. And when you get sick the rest of us will have to pay your bills for you.

So don't lecture me on personal responsibility if you fail to accept yours. That makes you a complete hypocrite.

.

Fuck you and fuck this tyrannical government. I will be damned before I enslave myself to an unjust law!

When I get sick, I'll pay my own damned bills. So shut your mouth. Don't lecture me about any responsibility when you and your ilk are the ones preaching personal apathy to millions upon millions during major elections. Seems the hypocrisy lies with you, and your entitlement programs.

It all sounds good and well until you get hit with a $100k+ hospital bill. Then you'll fall back and file for bankruptcy and force the rest of us to pay YOUR fucking bill because you simply don't want to be responsible enough to buy health insurance.

Good job, hypocrite.

By the way...I thought you said you were going to tuck tail and run away crying in post #38? I guess that was just another lie from a liar.

.

By the way, it's a similar provision in the law that will doom it to destruction. You cannot make a service unaffordable, since it would violate the spirit and letter of the law. How's that for hypocrisy, numbnuts?

 

[TemplarKormac]

If you're thinking republicans will come in there and repeal PPACA, you are mistaken, that is NOT going to happen. We may see a tweak here and a tweak there, but it is here to stay.

Nope.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UcWNqPinzKg]Will Oklahoma Suit Kill Obamacare? Dick Morris TV: Lunch ALERT! - YouTube[/ame]

Pruitt v. Sebelius (Oklahoma Case) :: Health Care Lawsuits

Lawsuit Challenging Obamacare Subsidies Moves Forward | Washington Free Beacon

As a conservative, you need to stop listening to what Dick Morris says is going to happen

Quit listening to what Rachel Maddow says will happen and perhaps we'll talk. Oh wait. Just remembered:

I WILL NOT NEGOTIATE.

 

[rightwinger]

Nope.

Will Oklahoma Suit Kill Obamacare? Dick Morris TV: Lunch ALERT! - YouTube

Pruitt v. Sebelius (Oklahoma Case) :: Health Care Lawsuits

Lawsuit Challenging Obamacare Subsidies Moves Forward | Washington Free Beacon

As a conservative, you need to stop listening to what Dick Morris says is going to happen

Quit listening to what Rachel Maddow says will happen and perhaps we'll talk. Oh wait. Just remembered:

I WILL NOT NEGOTIATE.

Actually Maddow was right about the last election
She was also right about the chances of Republicans using a shutdown to defund Obamacare

I WILL NOT NEGOTIATE is a good tactic to use against terrorists