Why Republican's Position is so Weak

[Spoonman]

As a conservative, you need to stop listening to what Dick Morris says is going to happen

Quit listening to what Rachel Maddow says will happen and perhaps we'll talk. Oh wait. Just remembered:

I WILL NOT NEGOTIATE.

Actually Maddow was right about the last election
She was also right about the chances of Republicans using a shutdown to defund Obamacare

I WILL NOT NEGOTIATE is a good tactic to use against terrorists

looks like this shutdown is going to last quite awhile in that case

 

[Nyvin]

Quit listening to what Rachel Maddow says will happen and perhaps we'll talk. Oh wait. Just remembered:

I WILL NOT NEGOTIATE.

Actually Maddow was right about the last election
She was also right about the chances of Republicans using a shutdown to defund Obamacare

I WILL NOT NEGOTIATE is a good tactic to use against terrorists

looks like this shutdown is going to last quite awhile in that case

Nope! It actually looks like it's coming to a close with Boehner offering up a temp debt ceiling raise AND funding the government in return for some spending cuts (No ACA terms were put into the plan)

 

[bendog]

Actually Maddow was right about the last election
She was also right about the chances of Republicans using a shutdown to defund Obamacare

I WILL NOT NEGOTIATE is a good tactic to use against terrorists

looks like this shutdown is going to last quite awhile in that case

Nope! It actually looks like it's coming to a close with Boehner offering up a temp debt ceiling raise AND funding the government in return for some spending cuts (No ACA terms were put into the plan)

yeah, Morning Joe quoted a gop congresswoman saying the goal was to have the govt open my Monday, but since Monday is a national holiday, Tuesday.

 

[amrchaos]

looks like this shutdown is going to last quite awhile in that case

Nope! It actually looks like it's coming to a close with Boehner offering up a temp debt ceiling raise AND funding the government in return for some spending cuts (No ACA terms were put into the plan)

yeah, Morning Joe quoted a gop congresswoman saying the goal was to have the govt open my Monday, but since Monday is a national holiday, Tuesday.

I thought Obama already said no to that idea.

....and with the Tea Party conservatives saying we can default---I feel sorry for the bond holders!

 

[Nyvin]

Nope! It actually looks like it's coming to a close with Boehner offering up a temp debt ceiling raise AND funding the government in return for some spending cuts (No ACA terms were put into the plan)

yeah, Morning Joe quoted a gop congresswoman saying the goal was to have the govt open my Monday, but since Monday is a national holiday, Tuesday.

I thought Obama already said no to that idea.

....and with the Tea Party conservatives saying we can default---I feel sorry for the bond holders!

Obama hasn't yet replied, this all happened a few hours ago.

 

[amrchaos]

OH--they have made an agreement today!!

good!

 

[bendog]

Nope! It actually looks like it's coming to a close with Boehner offering up a temp debt ceiling raise AND funding the government in return for some spending cuts (No ACA terms were put into the plan)

yeah, Morning Joe quoted a gop congresswoman saying the goal was to have the govt open my Monday, but since Monday is a national holiday, Tuesday.

I thought Obama already said no to that idea.

....and with the Tea Party conservatives saying we can default---I feel sorry for the bond holders!

Obama's always been for opening the govt again ... so long as it doesn't involve defunding Obamacare. The gop house now seems to be focusing on "changes" along with a delay of the individual mandate. I doubt Obama would agree. But there was also this.

Shutdown Crisis Inches Toward Resolution As GOP Seeks Escape Hatch | TIME.com

 

[Londoner]

1. They have no alternative
2. They have nothing to offer .

In 1964 Ronald Reagan burst on to the national scene with his speech "A Time for Choosing". He had one goal. To convince Americans that Medicare would lead the end of private medicine, and the end of American Capitalism. Reagan literally predicted that America as we knew it would die.

But he lacked the billionaires and the media control to capture enough public opinion to create an astroturf revolution.

As a result Medicare survived, and so did private health care, and so did capitalism, which went on to produce unprecedented profits for individuals.

The scare stories turned out to be false. And now Republican Seniors OVERWHELMINGLY want Medicare, as it has helped put an end to poverty amongst our great seniors, many of whom made great contributions to this country.

We are now witnessing what would have happened had Reagan had the propaganda tools to make the lie true.

But then again, the ACA is the lie being made true as we speak.

Care to address that?

Templar...,

I don't disagree with your point here. Prior to putting Social Security and Medicare in motion, nobody knew that it would achieve so much popularity with Republican Seniors that the GOP could not compete in Florida without promising to protect these programs. Same is true for ObamaCare. The law hasn't been fully enacted yet, so neither side knows for certain if it will evolve into a net gain for the nation (and achieve broad popularity on both sides of aisle) or if it will be a disaster. Right now both sides are just speculating about how this very complicated program will work, and both side's voters are treating those speculations as fact. And yes, both sides are cherry picking data. (I'm guessing that I have less faith in my side's narrative than you do in yours because I've never had a lot of trust in what large political parties say, right or left)

Regardless, even after ObamaCare becomes fully enacted and all the economic/social consequences have played out, our political parties will continue to spin opposing narratives about it. The problem is that Democrats and Republicans live in different worlds, with different facts (often supported by well endowed think tanks, media sources, pollsters, and statisticians). The John Birch Society said Eisenhower was a communist. I happen to think he was a great Republican president who used Big Government to put our veterans to work building much needed infrastructure, which infrastructure had a great commercial multiplier effect. What's the truth? It depends on who you ask. (The thing that separates me from my Republican friends is that they are not allowed to call anyone on the left a great politician)

Because of my parents I have dual citizenship, but I vote here. I've actually voted for a Republican governor when he was a better advocate for my issues. On the other hand, my Republican friends could never do this, that is, they have been conditioned to believe that all Democrats are categorically UnAmerican socialists. The problem with this kind of story is that it's too simplistic. Regardless, it's this sort of rigid voter control that makes me suspicious of the Right's current ObamaCare narrative. Right now - at this historical moment - the Right is just more effective at getting its voters to believe its stories. This means it's easier for them to impart false stories, like how Obama is going to subject grandma and the mentally retarded to Death Panels. The Democrats, on the other hand, lost the art of information control after their sixties activists decided to "drop out" of politics and get stoned. When the Left was making its sad transition from McGovern to Clinton (Labor to Wall Street) the Rightwing was creating a network of think tanks, media assets, publishing groups, political action committees and college associations (Young Republicans) that would put the Left in the kind of political wilderness that the Conservatives experienced during the postwar New Deal era (FDR through Carter). Meaning: right now there is no Left. There is the Republican Party (100% owned by big business and concentrated wealth) and Republican Lite (90% controlled by big business and concentrated wealth).

But I digress. We agree on your point more than you think.