Why Republican's Position is so Weak

[bendog]

Repuiblican position is weak because they are afraid to take a position

They have disolved to the Party of No....sitting on the sidelines heckling those who are actually trying to accomplish something

if the election were tommorw Bob Bennett might beat Mike Lee.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Avatar simply doesn't want to accept his ideological position lost us the opportunity to up the retirement age and index colas differently. But aside form that, his position is mah-va-less, simply mah-va-less.

So, at what point in time did you address his argument? Was this before or after you started launching ad hominem at him?

 

[Comunitee]

1. There is only one poll that matters, and it takes place every other November. Everything else is meaningless.

2. ObamaCare is the first and only time a major national policy change and a gigantic new federal program was implemented without bi-partisan support.

The Fiscal Year 1994 Budget was passed in August 1993 with no Republican votes in either house of Congress. Republicans said it would send the economy back into recession. They were wrong. It made the Clinton Presidency; had they been right, it would have ended it at one term.

Republican members of Congress are good as some things. Predicting is not one of them.

 

[DaGoose]

Wow. way to start off the thread with a whopper of a lie.

No alternative? There is a real good alternative. It's called The Free Market. It's what has given us the greatest health care system in the world in the First place. It requires that we as individuals be responsible for our own health care. I know this is a radical concept for some people. But it truly is the best system.

See, when you try to outsource your personal responsibility for your own health to others such as the government, you don't end up having the good health you might otherwise have. When you start demanding people give you their services for free, it's not entirely shocking that their desire to give you good care decreases. When you create regulation after regulation, you have doctors and nurses doing more and more to satisfy government requirements than provide care for patients.

But this does actually require you to be responsible. It requires you to be responsible for yourself and for your loved ones. Which is probably why there are so many people who want to turn responsibility over to the government as much as possible. Because we have a culture of people who don't want to be responsible.

Is it really worth it though? Will outsourcing our responsibilities to the government really make our lives easier when we, through neglect, are sick more often? Will it make our lives easier when there is even poorer care for those in need? Is it worth the lives that will be lost for the illusion of security in our health?

Personally, I don't think so. But I can't make your decisions for you.

You're kidding, right?

The ACA utilizes the free market approach as well as ensures personal responsibility with the individual mandate (which was originally a CONSERVATIVE idea for just that reason).

Wow. You guys sure have nothing in common with true conservatism.

.

Personal responsibility in this case would involve breaking the law, in this case the ACA. I'll gladly pay a fine instead of being held to the fire by a disastrous healthcare law.

Good. Pay your fine because you don't want to accept personal responsibility for buying health care. And when you get sick the rest of us will have to pay your bills for you.

So don't lecture me on personal responsibility if you fail to accept yours. That makes you a complete hypocrite.

.

 

[bendog]

well, being accused of ad homineim by the master..... LOL

The OP's hyperbole aside, the premise is correct. Our (conservatives) negotiating position is in the crapper. You and avatar have devoted your time to avioding that truth. Don't have a nice day.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I find interesting a sponsor of this board would be taking sides in a debate. I have no idea who this [MENTION=45526]Comunitee[/MENTION] is, but I feel nothing but bad vibes. Normally I would think such a party would be neutral.

 

[TemplarKormac]

well, being accused of ad homineim by the master..... LOL

The OP's hyperbole aside, the premise is correct. Our (conservatives) negotiating position is in the crapper. You and avatar have devoted your time to avioding that truth. Don't have a nice day.

Name an example of such in my post to the OP. Otherwise shut your mouth. Prove the validity of your premise, or shut your mouth. I ended this thread a page ago. Keep self flagellating if you wish.

 

[DaGoose]

The OP began with lies. You agree with them. I understand that. but they are still lies. And until he can be honest, his post is still going to be complete nonsense.

The majority of it is pretty generic statements which can be at least interpreted as true (if not outright true). Granted there are cold hard facts like Obama in the white house and 54 Dem Senators.

Stop.

I have proven all of your points to be lies. Please, do not take Avatar for a fool, I'm sure he's seen it as well. Other than for Obama being president and there being 54 Democratic Senators in the Senate, you lied through your teeth. Oh and one more thing. Mr. "I refuse to negotiate" just started negotiating with Republicans last night.

I know this must suck for you, but move on. You lost.

Obama said all along if the GOP CAVED he would negotiate.

And guess what? They CAVED.

This must REALLY suck for you.

.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The majority of it is pretty generic statements which can be at least interpreted as true (if not outright true). Granted there are cold hard facts like Obama in the white house and 54 Dem Senators.

Stop.

I have proven all of your points to be lies. Please, do not take Avatar for a fool, I'm sure he's seen it as well. Other than for Obama being president and there being 54 Democratic Senators in the Senate, you lied through your teeth. Oh and one more thing. Mr. "I refuse to negotiate" just started negotiating with Republicans last night.

I know this must suck for you, but move on. You lost.

Obama said all along if the GOP CAVED he would negotiate.

And guess what? They CAVED.

This must REALLY suck for you.

.

Who was it who made the phone call? Obama. He said it first. Oh and by the way, the Republicans never caved on Obamacare, they offered a six week extension on the debt ceiling, which has no effect on the government shutdown.

My goodness gracious, you people can't read worth a damn.

 

[Londoner]

1. They have no alternative
2. They have nothing to offer .

In 1964 Ronald Reagan burst on to the national scene with his speech "A Time for Choosing". He had one goal. To convince Americans that Medicare would lead the end of private medicine, and the end of American Capitalism. Reagan literally predicted that America as we knew it would die.

But he lacked the billionaires and the media control to capture enough public opinion to create an astroturf revolution.

As a result Medicare survived, and so did private health care, and so did capitalism, which went on to produce unprecedented profits for individuals.

The scare stories turned out to be false. And now Republican Seniors OVERWHELMINGLY want Medicare, as it has helped put an end to poverty amongst our great seniors, many of whom made great contributions to this country.

We are now witnessing what would have happened had Reagan had the propaganda tools to make the lie true.

 

[DaGoose]

Stop.

I have proven all of your points to be lies. Please, do not take Avatar for a fool, I'm sure he's seen it as well. Other than for Obama being president and there being 54 Democratic Senators in the Senate, you lied through your teeth. Oh and one more thing. Mr. "I refuse to negotiate" just started negotiating with Republicans last night.

I know this must suck for you, but move on. You lost.

Obama said all along if the GOP CAVED he would negotiate.

And guess what? They CAVED.

This must REALLY suck for you.

.

Who was it who made the phone call? Obama. He said it first. Oh and by the way, the Republicans never caved on Obamacare, they offered a six week extension on the debt ceiling, which has no effect on the government shutdown.

My goodness gracious, you people can't read worth a damn.

Spin it anyway you want. They CAVED.

.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Steny Hoyer just said nothing about ACA is on the table for negotiation.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Obama said all along if the GOP CAVED he would negotiate.

And guess what? They CAVED.

This must REALLY suck for you.

.

Who was it who made the phone call? Obama. He said it first. Oh and by the way, the Republicans never caved on Obamacare, they offered a six week extension on the debt ceiling, which has no effect on the government shutdown.

My goodness gracious, you people can't read worth a damn.

Spin it anyway you want. They CAVED.

.

I beg your pardon? It appears to me YOU are the one spinning it. Cry me a freaking river.

 

[TemplarKormac]

1. They have no alternative
2. They have nothing to offer .

In 1964 Ronald Reagan burst on to the national scene with his speech "A Time for Choosing". He had one goal. To convince Americans that Medicare would lead the end of private medicine, and the end of American Capitalism. Reagan literally predicted that America as we knew it would die.

But he lacked the billionaires and the media control to capture enough public opinion to create an astroturf revolution.

As a result Medicare survived, and so did private health care, and so did capitalism, which went on to produce unprecedented profits for individuals.

The scare stories turned out to be false. And now Republican Seniors OVERWHELMINGLY want Medicare, as it has helped put an end to poverty amongst our great seniors, many of whom made great contributions to this country.

We are now witnessing what would have happened had Reagan had the propaganda tools to make the lie true.

But then again, the ACA is the lie being made true as we speak.

Care to address that?

 

[TemplarKormac]

You're kidding, right?

The ACA utilizes the free market approach as well as ensures personal responsibility with the individual mandate (which was originally a CONSERVATIVE idea for just that reason).

Wow. You guys sure have nothing in common with true conservatism.

.

Personal responsibility in this case would involve breaking the law, in this case the ACA. I'll gladly pay a fine instead of being held to the fire by a disastrous healthcare law.

Good. Pay your fine because you don't want to accept personal responsibility for buying health care. And when you get sick the rest of us will have to pay your bills for you.

So don't lecture me on personal responsibility if you fail to accept yours. That makes you a complete hypocrite.

.

Fuck you and fuck this tyrannical government. I will be damned before I enslave myself to an unjust law!

When I get sick, I'll pay my own damned bills. So shut your mouth. Don't lecture me about any responsibility when you and your ilk are the ones preaching personal apathy to millions upon millions during major elections. Seems the hypocrisy lies with you, and your entitlement programs.

 

[Nyvin]

1. They have no alternative
2. They have nothing to offer .

In 1964 Ronald Reagan burst on to the national scene with his speech "A Time for Choosing". He had one goal. To convince Americans that Medicare would lead the end of private medicine, and the end of American Capitalism. Reagan literally predicted that America as we knew it would die.

But he lacked the billionaires and the media control to capture enough public opinion to create an astroturf revolution.

As a result Medicare survived, and so did private health care, and so did capitalism, which went on to produce unprecedented profits for individuals.

The scare stories turned out to be false. And now Republican Seniors OVERWHELMINGLY want Medicare, as it has helped put an end to poverty amongst our great seniors, many of whom made great contributions to this country.

We are now witnessing what would have happened had Reagan had the propaganda tools to make the lie true.

But then again, the ACA is the lie being made true as we speak.

Care to address that?

It's going to play out just the same as it did in Mass, technical difficulty at first, some public sentiment against it, then the popularity will rise. It's already had a trial run in 1 state.

 

[TemplarKormac]

In 1964 Ronald Reagan burst on to the national scene with his speech "A Time for Choosing". He had one goal. To convince Americans that Medicare would lead the end of private medicine, and the end of American Capitalism. Reagan literally predicted that America as we knew it would die.

But he lacked the billionaires and the media control to capture enough public opinion to create an astroturf revolution.

As a result Medicare survived, and so did private health care, and so did capitalism, which went on to produce unprecedented profits for individuals.

The scare stories turned out to be false. And now Republican Seniors OVERWHELMINGLY want Medicare, as it has helped put an end to poverty amongst our great seniors, many of whom made great contributions to this country.

We are now witnessing what would have happened had Reagan had the propaganda tools to make the lie true.

But then again, the ACA is the lie being made true as we speak.

Care to address that?

It's going to play out just the same as it did in Mass, technical difficulty at first, some public sentiment against it, then the popularity will rise. It's already had a trial run in 1 state.

Oh wow.

It actually WORKED in Massachusetts. But that is ONE state as compared to FIFTY. You are as stupid as this universe is wide. A trial run in one state is does not mean for any reason that it will work on a nationwide scale. And as evidenced, only 2 million people applied out of the requisite 7 million it needs to stay afloat. On top of that, the site has been down for ten days! Oh man, this is making my sides hurt! The hilarity! Oh! The hilarity!

That's is $1.2 trillion dollar technical difficulty son! It was never meant to be applied to 300 million people! Frankly, I've seen better rollouts from internet browser games.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Goodbye everyone! This thread is a fine example of what happens when people blindly go believing what they hear without researching it.

 

[Spoonman]

1. They have no alternative - They say "Obamacare is awful, terrible, bad bad bad!!" yet they have no alternative system ready, they suggest we go back to the status quo which we all know is awful and terribly expensive.

2. They have no unified voice - John Boehner says "yes" to the CR bill without ACA in it back in june, then he turns around and puts ACA into the bill. The mainstream Repubs want to go one way, the tea party wants to go another. How far Ted Cruz is willing to go differs from how far John Mccain wants to go.

3. They have nothing to offer - Like it or not, Obama is in the white house and there are 54 democratic senators in the Senate Chamber. The GOP needs their okay to shut it down, how do they get that okay? what do they give up for that yes vote?? They have ~NOTHING~. Funding the government or raising the debt limit are not things to be "offered" they're part of doing your job as a congressman.

4. The law is going forward anyway - Obstruction for the past 3 years didn't stop it, Shutting down the government didn't stop it. It will not be stopped, it's coming like it or not. Once the technical issues are dealt with it will continue powering along, and there isn't any catastrophic events happening so the "ACA Boogeyman" is becoming a very hard sell.

5. The law has been through enough - Passing congress, getting president's approval, verified by the supreme court, Obama re-elected in 2012...how much more do they want? The law hasn't even been fully implemented so just saying "it's going to be terrible" isn't a good selling point.

6. and finally...Polls - Every poll puts the blame on Republicans, even the best case polls puts them behind "but not by all that much!" and usually it's because of wording that they get "close" to being tied. The public is against them. It's a tremendously difficult image to sell and they aren't selling it. Over the course of the shutdown the polling numbers have only gotten worse and most likely will continue to degrade, which is probably what lead Boehner to finally accept the temp raise in the debt limit, which I see as the beginning of the end.

In conclusion...the Republicans are basically running on tea party steam and hot air to keep this crusade going, and it will only last as long as the moderate republicans want it to. It's an indefensible spot to be in, one that is damaging their party and accomplishing nothing and going nowhere. The public sees this, the democrats see this, Obama sees this, even moderate GOPers see this....It. isn't. working. They're standing on a very weak podium, and the cracks are showing up everywhere.

think about it. the early polls where highly against the republicans putting the blame on them. as time goes on, the blame is becoming more equal in the polls. just like gun control which democrats thought would be a sure victory for them after sandy hook, the shut down will fail on you too

 

[Stephanie]

You're kidding, right?

The ACA utilizes the free market approach as well as ensures personal responsibility with the individual mandate (which was originally a CONSERVATIVE idea for just that reason).

Wow. You guys sure have nothing in common with true conservatism.

.

Personal responsibility in this case would involve breaking the law, in this case the ACA. I'll gladly pay a fine instead of being held to the fire by a disastrous healthcare law.

Good. Pay your fine because you don't want to accept personal responsibility for buying health care. And when you get sick the rest of us will have to pay your bills for you.

So don't lecture me on personal responsibility if you fail to accept yours. That makes you a complete hypocrite.

.

WTF?
MANY people already pay OUT OF POCKET for their health care so they aren't BEHOLDEN to insurance companies OR this FASCIST FEDERAL GOVERNMENT which has no RIGHT to tell us what we should OR shouldn't HAVE or else BE FINED..
What damn country do we live in...some of you would sell all your freedoms, but DON'T TOUCH ABORTION..that's a right in your comrades eyes