Why so much hate for the Confederacy.? It can't be about slavery.

[ShootSpeeders]

Funny isn't it?
It's funny how the defenders of the flag say it's all about pride and heritage, yet there's the Klan waving the flag proudly on behalf of all of you.

HAHAHA. Everyone but you knows the klan is 90% govt agents. Same with nazi groups. The govt has infiltrated all radical groups.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Why do you feel that the opinion of white folks concerning that flag carries more weight than the 75% of black folks who see it as racist and have been victimized by those who have flown that flag for the last 150 years?
Why are you so comfortable and eager to offend black folks by supporting and displaying that flag?

It's called free speech. If someone is "offended", that's tough.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Why do you feel that the opinion of white folks concerning that flag carries more weight than the 75% of black folks who see it as racist and have been victimized by those who have flown that flag for the last 150 years?
Why are you so comfortable and eager to offend black folks by supporting and displaying that flag?

It's called free speech. If someone is "offended", that's tough.

Oh we get it. Your lack of any regard for black folks and willingness to offend says all we need to know about you.
Hmm...I wonder why people might view that attitude as racist.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[

Oh we get it. Your lack of any regard for black folks and willingness to offend says all we need to know about you.
Hmm...I wonder why people might view that attitude as racist.

You support affirmative action and that makes YOU the racist. I'm the anti-racist.

 

[Boss]

Funny isn't it?
It's funny how the defenders of the flag say it's all about pride and heritage, yet there's the Klan waving the flag proudly on behalf of all of you.

So... If the Klan were waving a rainbow flag we could assume that all you Gay Pride folks are racists?

The Klan does not represent ME. They are doing NOTHING on behalf of ME!

YOU are trying to stigmatize ME based on a sick twisted stereotype in your bigoted mind.

The comparison with the rainbow flag is simply retarded. The history and symbolism of each couldn't be more different. You are stigmatized for supporting the American swastika. Your position on that flag and it's history says what you support loud a proud. We all get it. At least the Klan is honest about how they feel. Most supporters hide behind " pride and heritage" but we all know what that really means.

Well no, it would be the same thing. The false comparison is the rebel flag with the swastika. It may have escaped your notice but the rebel flag contains the exact same elements as the American flag. It has stars and stripes and is red, white and blue. The symbolic meaning of these is essentially the same. In 1861, it "stood for" the Army of Tennessee. It's "purpose" was to distinguish the Army of Tennessee from other armies on the battlefield.

Over the years, PEOPLE have used the flag to symbolize different things. You've simply applied the worst of the worst symbolism because you are a bigot who is prejudiced against Southerners.

 

[Boss]

Why do you feel that the opinion of white folks concerning that flag carries more weight than the 75% of black folks who see it as racist and have been victimized by those who have flown that flag for the last 150 years?
Why are you so comfortable and eager to offend black folks by supporting and displaying that flag?

Are 25% of black folks now "white folks?" You seem to admit that 25% of the black folks don't see it as racist, the same as white folks who support the flag. Yet you said it was the opinion of white folks... so I guess you think 25% of the black people are really white?

You're trying to stigmatize a flag and you are failing. People are rejecting your attempts to rewrite history and condemn the flag based on false symbolization and bigoted stereotypes. You do not get to censor my symbols based on what YOU think they symbolize. We don't live in Nazi Germany.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Well no, it would be the same thing. The false comparison is the rebel flag with the swastika. It may have escaped your notice but the rebel flag contains the exact same elements as the American flag. It has stars and stripes and is red, white and blue. The symbolic meaning of these is essentially the same. In 1861, it "stood for" the Army of Tennessee. It's "purpose" was to distinguish the Army of Tennessee from other armies on the battlefield.
.

You sure about that.? I thought it was the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. There was no official confederate flag.

 

[Boss]

You sure about that.? I thought it was the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. There was no official confederate flag.

A variation was used by the Virginia Army, it was square instead of rectangular.

There were three official national flags of the Confederacy. This battle flag was never one of them.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[

There were three official national flags of the Confederacy. This battle flag was never one of them.

Never heard of a country having THREE official flags and i don't think the confederacy did. There were several candidates for the flag but the confederacy never got around to picking one officially. They were too busy fighting off psychopaths like lincoln and sherman and sheridan bombing their cites.

 

[paperview]

[

There were three official national flags of the Confederacy. This battle flag was never one of them.

Never heard of a country having THREE official flags and i don't think the confederacy did. There were several candidates for the flag but the confederacy never got around to picking one officially. They were too busy fighting off psychopaths like lincoln and sherman and sheridan bombing their cites.

More bullshit from the idiot.

and the Second Official Confederate Flag (the Stainless Banner) incorporated the Battle Flag.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

[

There were three official national flags of the Confederacy. This battle flag was never one of them.

Never heard of a country having THREE official flags and i don't think the confederacy did. There were several candidates for the flag but the confederacy never got around to picking one officially. They were too busy fighting off psychopaths like lincoln and sherman and sheridan bombing their cites.

They all flew for the same cause, the preservation of slavery. There is no difference.

 

[Boss]

[

There were three official national flags of the Confederacy. This battle flag was never one of them.

Never heard of a country having THREE official flags and i don't think the confederacy did. There were several candidates for the flag but the confederacy never got around to picking one officially. They were too busy fighting off psychopaths like lincoln and sherman and sheridan bombing their cites.

Well idiot, they didn't have three at the same time! Do you think the American flag flying over the White House is the same flag that has been there since 1776?

 

[Boss]

[

There were three official national flags of the Confederacy. This battle flag was never one of them.

Never heard of a country having THREE official flags and i don't think the confederacy did. There were several candidates for the flag but the confederacy never got around to picking one officially. They were too busy fighting off psychopaths like lincoln and sherman and sheridan bombing their cites.

They all flew for the same cause, the preservation of slavery. There is no difference.

How do you preserve something already preserved by US law? Slavery hadn't been outlawed. In fact, slavery didn't end with the Civil War. It took Congress passing the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments and the states ratifying them.

It wasn't about preserving slavery, it was about protecting property rights and upholding the Constitution.

 

[paperview]

[

There were three official national flags of the Confederacy. This battle flag was never one of them.

Never heard of a country having THREE official flags and i don't think the confederacy did. There were several candidates for the flag but the confederacy never got around to picking one officially. They were too busy fighting off psychopaths like lincoln and sherman and sheridan bombing their cites.

They all flew for the same cause, the preservation of slavery. There is no difference.

How do you preserve something already preserved by US law? Slavery hadn't been outlawed. In fact, slavery didn't end with the Civil War. It took Congress passing the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments and the states ratifying them.

It wasn't about preserving slavery, it was about protecting property rights and upholding the Constitution.

The only serious "property" they were concerned about was their property in slaves.

The single biggest economic asset in the country.

 

[Boss]

The only serious "property" they were concerned about was their property in slaves.

The single biggest economic asset in the country.

Well that's true but is that THEIR fault? Did THEY make slaves property or was it the SCOTUS and US Congress? Yes... some estimate there were over a billion dollars worth of slaves in the deep south. That's 1861 dollars.... a LOT of fucking money there.

Look... The 4th Amendment can't be any clearer to understand... The government can't take your property unless you've done something to warrant them taking it. This is precisely why the Emancipation Proclamation could not legally apply to any slaves owned in the Union or in areas of the South controlled by the Union.

I have repeatedly said, the Civil War was NOT ABOUT SLAVERY! It was about MONEY! Like almost every war this country has ever fought, it was about the money. For the South, it was about the money they stood to lose in property... For the North, it was about the money they stood to lose in revenues from secession states.

In 1861, less than 2% of the population felt that black people were equal to white people. Today, we have uneducated mush-brains running around thinking the CW was somehow about racial equality!

 

[paperview]

Well that's true but is that THEIR fault? Did THEY make slaves property or was it the SCOTUS and US Congress? Yes... some estimate there were over a billion dollars worth of slaves in the deep south. That's 1861 dollars.... a LOT of fucking money there....

Try nearing FOUR billion. In 1860's dollars.

A lot lot! of fucking money.

Think on this:

If you wanted to buy all the railroads, factories and banks in the entire country at that time, it would have only cost you about $2.5 billion.

----> slaves were by far the largest concentration of property in the country. A stunning figure,

The South was not about to give that up.

They were looking to expand it westward, and perpetuate it permanently . They were ready to fight to the bloody end to not give it up. That much is clear.

It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding. Human beings as property.

Millions of these people who were *bred* as animals are -- with values in the BILLIONS and BILLIONS.

Yes, It was. About. Slavery. Preserving, protecting & expanding. Human beings as property.

And they are *still fighting the battle----to this day, it appears. Even though they lost the war.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

There is no defense for slavery today. I agree that historically people had different views on slavery but that has all changed. Slavery viewed with today's standard can't be seen as anything but the physical practice of racism. Why would we then want to laud that part of our history by having that flag over statehouses? For people whose history doesn't include pride or heritage but servitude and oppression followed by another century of segregation and institutional discrimination, that flag is a painful reminder of a past that needs to forgotten. It's utterly ridiculous that this is even a debate still today.

 

[Boss]

They were looking to expand it westward, and perpetuate it permanently . They were ready to fight to the bloody end to not give it up. That much is clear.

This is just not true. How the fuck were farmers going to use slaves to harvest cotton in fucking Arizona? What abolition politicians like Lincoln wanted to do was to run out west and add a bunch of "free states" so they could shift power in the Senate and abolish slavery. The Southern states protested this and pointed to the 10th Amendment. They felt new states should be allowed to decide for themselves.

As a matter of fact, if you study the Confederate Constitution, it actually stipulates that slavery is an issue to be determined by the state and not the Confederate government. That was at the heart of the "Southern Cause" and it has been perverted into some sick twisted fight to keep humans enslaved.

Something that no one ever seems to talk about is the number of slaves that had already been freed by their masters on plantations across the South. The writing was on the wall and the plantation owners surely could see that. We outlawed slave markets 50 years earlier, we stopped the import of new slaves into the country, it wasn't happening anymore. Times were changing. It was becoming more and more of an expense and burden to maintain slaves.

You have been brainwashed to believe this was a war about human equality and it simply wasn't. The United States did not recognize slaves as humans with rights. Not the CSA... THE USA! It was THEIR court and congress who upheld the institution for 87 years and beyond... from the days of Colonialism. White Europeans brought slaves here before there was a nation. ALL of that history is just conveniently forgotten as you slip the yolk of blame onto the Southern states and Confederacy.

 

[Boss]

There is no defense for slavery today. I agree that historically people had different views on slavery but that has all changed. Slavery viewed with today's standard can't be seen as anything but the physical practice of racism. Why would we then want to laud that part of our history by having that flag over statehouses? For people whose history doesn't include pride or heritage but servitude and oppression followed by another century of segregation and institutional discrimination, that flag is a painful reminder of a past that needs to forgotten. It's utterly ridiculous that this is even a debate still today.

I agree there is no defense for slavery today. But that is part of the problem here... we are SO far removed from the mindset of 1861, we can't relate to it. It's difficult to imagine men sitting on a Supreme Court and actually ruling that a "slave" was legitimately-owned property with a value only as a property asset. Furthermore, to say that even if you didn't agree, you were obligated to return property to it's owner or face criminal charges. This was the Law of the Land in 1861.

We have a deplorable history as a NATION when it comes to slavery and equality for black people. That cannot ever be erased by making a scapegoat of the South or their symbols. I'm only part black so I can't speak for all black people but I view these symbols as reminders of how far we have come. I have ancestors who were slaves and I also have some who were worse off than slaves. Imagine being so worthless you aren't even wanted as a slave? Thousand of my relatives were killed because they simply weren't of any value to anyone. They just happened to be on the land some white European wanted. Before that, they came from where they were run off their land by a king who wanted it. So we all have a history and our ancestors have been through a lot. Slavery wasn't born in the South.

 

[paperview]

They were looking to expand it westward, and perpetuate it permanently . They were ready to fight to the bloody end to not give it up. That much is clear.

This is just not true. How the fuck were farmers going to use slaves to harvest cotton in fucking Arizona?

Jesus Christ. You little brain only imagines slaves can be used for picking cotton?

*doh*

They SAID they wanted to expand it not only Westward, but into Cuba and Mexico. Pick up a fucking history book.

As a matter of fact, if you study the Confederate Constitution, it actually stipulates that slavery is an issue to be determined by the state and not the Confederate government.

I've studied it plenty.

The CSA intended slavery to continue in perpetuity.

In fact a confederate state would not be allowed to *not* have slavery.

Direct your attention as well in that Document to "no ex post facto law."

"Something that no one ever seems to talk about is the number of slaves that had
already been freed by their masters on plantations across the South."

Right.

LOLOLOLOL.

Some near four million slaves buddy. Nearly half their population.

In some states - a majority slave population.

Single biggest economic asset in the country - and "plantations" only accounted for a little over 10% of the slaveowners. A huge preponderance were those who owned 5 or less slaves.

Oh, and they were paying damn good money for bounty hunters to bring back the runaways.

and even enslave those who were Free Blacks.

Never mind the law at the time was also that FREE blacks were not even citizens, and not provided "any rights the white man was bound to obey."

Thank dog the Union forced the human traffickers to give up their barbarous human rights violators.

Didn't stop the South from subjugating the blacks for another 100 years though....