Why the GOP should continue to oppose gay marriage

[Redfish]

I know that gay marriage now polls at 55% and whatnot, and some conservatives think in order to win another national election they have to turn the page on gay marriage.

Here's why that's not only not true, but a bad idea.

First of all, notice how there are two separate but parallel narratives with the push for gay marriage. The first one goes "it's only a matter of time until it's nationally legal, so opponents need to drop it because they're on the wrong side of history". The second one goes, "this is about equal rights and gays not being denied their constitutional rights". Hmm.

If it's inevitable and all the young people and smart people agree with it, why does it matter that we see it as a matter of equal rights? It has a majority of support. The people have spoken. They want gay marriage. What's with the need to be Right when you're so sure you're going to Win?

Or...

If it's about equal rights and constitutional rights, why does it matter if the people agree with it or not? If this is about the principles of the Bill of Rights and not denying certain classes of people their right to marry, who cares if it enjoys populist support? Right is right, right?

Methinks supporters are trying to create an aura of support while not placing much faith in either tactic.

Remember something: California voted twice in eight years to define marriage as a man and woman...and yet, it is now legal. In 1996, Congress passed DOMA with bipartisan support and over 2/3 of the states followed suit...and now many of them have legalized SSM and part of DOMA has been struck down.

Few states have shown through popular vote that they agree with same-sex marriage, if any. And yet, because of a few polls, it's now accepted that most Americans support same-sex marriage. What sense does that make?

I think it's clear that the mentality for most supporters entrenched in this fight is something like: If most Americans agree with gay marriage, great, we'll go with that. If not, we're perfectly fine Just Legalizing It Anyway.

And that's why the GOP needs to continue to oppose it. They need to tell the truth. Gay marriage supporters are fine using any means to get what they want, but most Americans have demonstrably shown they disagree with it. Using data without the anticipation of an actual vote to push a narrative shouldn't be just accepted as political wisdom. They need to stop being scared of being booed -- because the bottom line is gays and young people aren't going to vote for a Republican by any wide margin regardless what they say on these issues du jour (i.e. pot legalization, gay marriage, etc) -- and make a principled argument based on the truth.

The answer is pretty simple. And, it's really no different from any other "no compromise" issue by the very right, amnesty and obamacare for example. The numbers are simply against you on these issues, as your post points out. So, your options are two: One: gee six out of ten disagree with me, could there be something to their view? Two: I'm principled. No compromise.

What your choice (and I mean the gop's choice too) does is that all those who'd seek to look at the other sides' motivations to find some good will are now unacceptable to you. So, in order to win a national election is you'll need someone like Caesar who was all things to all people.

Incorrect.

First, there's no such thing as 'gay marriage,' there's only the marriage law as written by the states and administered in state courts. Marriage is a union of two equal partners, same- or opposite-sex.

The 14th Amendment requires the states to afford all persons equal protection of (equal access to) the law, including marriage law. To deny same-sex couples access to marriage law they're eligible to participate in violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. “A State cannot so deem a class of persons a stranger to its laws,” Romer v. Evans (1996).

This is settled and accepted 14th Amendment jurisprudence, and to ensure this Constitutional case law is applied consistently, the states must allow same-sex couples access to their marriage law.

This is the law as codified by the Constitution.

Politics is another matter altogether, of course, where republicans can either obey the Constitution and the rule of law, or ignore the rule of law and Constitution to seek some perceived partisan advantage.

No it doesn't. That's the bottom line. You can claim that gays have an equal "right" to be married all you want, but your claim goes against logic. It's just a petulant whine.

The people who oppose gay marriage are the whiners, and it is none of their business if gays want to get married.

then I assume that you support all forms of multiple marriage. If not, why not? and what legal defense can be brought when gay marriage is allowed based on deprivation of rights?

 

[Silhouette]

I know that gay marriage now polls at 55% and whatnot, and some conservatives think in order to win another national election they have to turn the page on gay marriage.

Wouldn't be so sure about that. Check out the polling data on this page: http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ed-to-accomodate-for-homosexual-weddings.html

It shows that a full 85% of people do NOT support gay marriage wholeheartedly. All the GOP would have to do to nudge that back is "accidentally" release information on any number of glaring links of the LGBT cult to child sex predation and predators and inappropriate exposure of lewd sexual exhibitionism to children [gay pride parades]. That's it. The GOP simply has to just introduce the same type of subversive strategy the LGBT leadership has [who have ties to the black arts and sorcery BTW] and voila! Jump on that political combine and start harvesting the votes once the shock and disgust take hold in those wobbly, lukewarm "supporters of gay marriage"....

...and while you're at it, suckerpunch the main demographic of "non gays who support gay marriage": democratic women. Just casually mention that polygamy will have to be allowed once gays set the precedent for minor behaviors objectionable to the majority to be protected from democratic rule. Remind the gals that soon their husband may legally take a younger, prettier wife and you will see sub-zero temperatures very quickly on this demographic. The dems have bedded themselves down so deeply by now with this perversion movement, that dems = gays in the minds of most Americans. There's your next poll is how many people feel that way..lol..

Your polling data is all wrong. There is strong support, lukewarm support and herd-think support. Send your cattle dogs nipping in the opposite direction and that herd will come right into your corral.

 

[TheJedi]

I know that gay marriage now polls at 55% and whatnot, and some conservatives think in order to win another national election they have to turn the page on gay marriage.

Here's why that's not only not true, but a bad idea.

First of all, notice how there are two separate but parallel narratives with the push for gay marriage. The first one goes "it's only a matter of time until it's nationally legal, so opponents need to drop it because they're on the wrong side of history". The second one goes, "this is about equal rights and gays not being denied their constitutional rights". Hmm.

If it's inevitable and all the young people and smart people agree with it, why does it matter that we see it as a matter of equal rights? It has a majority of support. The people have spoken. They want gay marriage. What's with the need to be Right when you're so sure you're going to Win?

Or...

If it's about equal rights and constitutional rights, why does it matter if the people agree with it or not? If this is about the principles of the Bill of Rights and not denying certain classes of people their right to marry, who cares if it enjoys populist support? Right is right, right?

Methinks supporters are trying to create an aura of support while not placing much faith in either tactic.

Remember something: California voted twice in eight years to define marriage as a man and woman...and yet, it is now legal. In 1996, Congress passed DOMA with bipartisan support and over 2/3 of the states followed suit...and now many of them have legalized SSM and part of DOMA has been struck down.

Few states have shown through popular vote that they agree with same-sex marriage, if any. And yet, because of a few polls, it's now accepted that most Americans support same-sex marriage. What sense does that make?

I think it's clear that the mentality for most supporters entrenched in this fight is something like: If most Americans agree with gay marriage, great, we'll go with that. If not, we're perfectly fine Just Legalizing It Anyway.

And that's why the GOP needs to continue to oppose it. They need to tell the truth. Gay marriage supporters are fine using any means to get what they want, but most Americans have demonstrably shown they disagree with it. Using data without the anticipation of an actual vote to push a narrative shouldn't be just accepted as political wisdom. They need to stop being scared of being booed -- because the bottom line is gays and young people aren't going to vote for a Republican by any wide margin regardless what they say on these issues du jour (i.e. pot legalization, gay marriage, etc) -- and make a principled argument based on the truth.

Incorrect.

First, there's no such thing as 'gay marriage,' there's only the marriage law as written by the states and administered in state courts. Marriage is a union of two equal partners, same- or opposite-sex.

The 14th Amendment requires the states to afford all persons equal protection of (equal access to) the law, including marriage law. To deny same-sex couples access to marriage law they're eligible to participate in violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. “A State cannot so deem a class of persons a stranger to its laws,” Romer v. Evans (1996).

This is settled and accepted 14th Amendment jurisprudence, and to ensure this Constitutional case law is applied consistently, the states must allow same-sex couples access to their marriage law.

This is the law as codified by the Constitution.

Politics is another matter altogether, of course, where republicans can either obey the Constitution and the rule of law, or ignore the rule of law and Constitution to seek some perceived partisan advantage.

No it doesn't. That's the bottom line. You can claim that gays have an equal "right" to be married all you want, but your claim goes against logic. It's just a petulant whine.

I find your lack of intellect disturbing.