Zone1 Why Uneducated Whites are Dying of Economic Despair

[sealybobo]

second term he cut business taxes and regulation... and it spurred growth...

He also put worker and environmental protections in NAFTA before he signed it. Why did Bush remove those?

 

[Woodznutz]

Here is why I'm pro middle class even though I'm considered upper class. I came from being poor. How did I do that? My parents found jobs that paid them a fair wage. My dad came from being a immigrant cook without a high school diploma to one of the main cooks in the Ford Lincoln plant. Don't laugh. He cooked for the execs. They loved his Greek cooking. He went from $5 to $13. That got us out of Yaya's house. Then my mom found a job at Henry Ford Hospital. It too paid more than Walmart jobs do today. So between them, they saved a fortune.

My moms gone now but they saved $800,000. Or they are worth $800,000 if you include the home. More than enough money to live off because he also gets social security. Assuming he doesn't go into a home he should leave us MORE than $800,000 because he still doesn't spend what he makes in a month off social security and interest on his $. I asked if mom was alive would they be eating into their savings he said no. He lost $12,000 a year when she died.

No two white, uneducated, blue collar couple today is going to be able to tell their story in 50 years. And it's not Biden's fault. Actually, in 50 years Ford workers will be telling this story because they got big raises last year that will secure their future for at least 20 years when everything goes automation and AI.

I have a lower-class job but have an upper class total income.

Blog Yêu Game – Chia Sẻ Kiến Thức Về Game

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[sealybobo]

You would need more than $90,000/yr. to be upper class (individual income).

$149,132

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Based on 2021 data, you would need to earn $149,132 or more to be considered upper class in the U.S. While $149,132 might be a good income in a place like Huntsville, Alabama, it does not provide the same standard of living in other major cities. To make it into the "upper class" bracket, your income must fall in the top 20%.

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You forget I'm single no kids

I'm trying to find the link that said if you are single and have no kids you are considered upper class.

Here's one thing I'll give you. I've been saying this for a couple years. With inflation, you may actually be right today. Today I would need to make $150K to be considered upper class.

This reminds me of my real life situation. My youngest nephew will probably make as much as I do in his first job out of college. That doesn't bother me. It reminds me of when I graduated college and immediately made more than my parents. And my college didn't cost as much as my nephews so in today's society, college grads NEED to make $100K.

But it does suck that as you get older, you start seeing younger people who probably demand more than you do to work for the company you work for. The boss isn't going to say "hey Sealybobo, all the younger sales guys are making more than you". As far as he's concerned, that's none of my business.

And I'm happy. I don't think I will ever make $100K but I make close enough and have no bills so I'm happy with what I'm making/saving.

BUT, I am eventually going to ask my boss for a .001 increase in my commissions. If he does that then I might make a little OVER $100K. That for me would be a game changer. I might even buy a condo in Florida if that happens.

OR, I'll just save it. I want to retire at 62 so 9 years from now.

 

[sealybobo]

I have a lower-class job but have an upper class total income.

Blog Yêu Game – Chia Sẻ Kiến Thức Về Game

Blog Yêu Game – Chia Sẻ Kiến Thức Về Game

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Only 18% of American's make over $100K. Top 18% bracket.

Being single with no kids Earning more than $100,000 per year would put you well ahead of the median American household, which brings in $74,784 as of 2021. Assuming you're an individual without dependents, that salary would qualify you as upper class, according to three different definitions (Brookings, Urban Institute and Pew Research).

I agree with you Woodznuts I'm just upper middle.

What I read, and it's true, is having no kids and making what I do, on top of the fact my condo is paid off, is that a guy in my position is able to buy things and save enough to retire.

God I wish I had this job through the 2000's. I'd be a millionaire already.

I've only been making this kind of money for about 7 years. When I started at this company the president asked me what the minimum I would accept. I was out of work and said $40,000. I did so well in 2 years i was making close to 6 figures. I couldn't believe the raise I got. He bumped me up to $65K salary and the commissions add up to about $30K

Before weed was legal in Michigan, I also made $10K a year selling weed. Back then I bragged I did make 6 figures because I did. Just not on paper.

And remember, what I did was a victimless crime. LOL

 

[Woodznutz]

Only 18% of American's make over $100K. Top 18% bracket.

Being single with no kids Earning more than $100,000 per year would put you well ahead of the median American household, which brings in $74,784 as of 2021. Assuming you're an individual without dependents, that salary would qualify you as upper class, according to three different definitions (Brookings, Urban Institute and Pew Research).

I agree with you Woodznuts I'm just upper middle.

What I read, and it's true, is having no kids and making what I do, on top of the fact my condo is paid off, is that a guy in my position is able to buy things and save enough to retire.

God I wish I had this job through the 2000's. I'd be a millionaire already.

I've only been making this kind of money for about 7 years. When I started at this company the president asked me what the minimum I would accept. I was out of work and said $40,000. I did so well in 2 years i was making close to 6 figures. I couldn't believe the raise I got. He bumped me up to $65K salary and the commissions add up to about $30K

Before weed was legal in Michigan, I also made $10K a year selling weed. Back then I bragged I did make 6 figures because I did. Just not on paper.

And remember, what I did was a victimless crime. LOL

My income comes from wages, SS, and investments. I bought, paid off, and self-managed an 8-unit apartment building for 18 years, in addition to my job. Sold the building and have invested the money in safe instruments. The recent bump in interest rates have been very good to me. My income from all sources is $120,000/yr. Total wealth (all in savings, no real estate) is $1,300,000, increasing by about $60,000/yr. I live frugally and am still working. Might retire in a couple of years, but I love my job.

When I croak my son and daughter will get most of it. I might buy an airplane with some of it. I used to fly when I was younger and have an itch to do it again. My son flies powered paragliders, so we have flying in common. It would be a good way to spend more time with him.

 

[Rambunctious]

He also put worker and environmental protections in NAFTA before he signed it. Why did Bush remove those?

You will never hear me defend a Bush....

 

[Stryder50]

Ashli Babbitt was a woman who was suckered in by Trump to storm the US capital over a lie and was killed by a cop doing his duty defending the capital building and those he swore to protect.

She entered after the initial "storming" where the police opened the doors and barriers inviting the protestors in. Unarmed Babbitt was murdered by a gutless, trigger happy cop, while she was trying to stop other protestors from continuing, a cop whom the DOJ covered and failed to prosecute.

 

[Stryder50]

Ayn Rand had her decrepit hands out when it was her time to kick the bucket and she didn't have enough sheckles for her healthcare so she depended on the government teet for her sustenance.

You idiots still use that disgraced hypocrite as some sort of ideal example of your virtues, not even recognizing how stupid you are for doing so.

Not quit as bad as that more disgraced hypocrite Karl Marx that never did shit, never created any wealth, and promoted a destructive view and goal of society. Yet you Leftists-socialists(communists) fail to see how stupid you are, or that you are just social parasites living off of others.

 

[Stryder50]

Oldsters hold most of the wealth of the country.

Charting The Growing Generational Wealth Gap

How large is the wealth gap between Millennials, Gen X, and Baby Boomers? We visualize the growing wealth disparity by generation and age.

www.visualcapitalist.com

A minority of them, not the majority.

 

[Stryder50]

Here's the average net worth of Americans ages 65 to 74

Net worth tends to increase with age as you earn a higher salary, own more assets and reduce debt. Here's the average net worth of people in their 60s and early 70s.

www.cnbc.com

If you 'bell curve' the numbers/data, you see that a minority of the 65+ hold the majority of the wealth.

 

[Stryder50]

If it was necessary to spend more money on the military and COVID-19 it was necessary top raise taxes to pay for it.

Borrowing money to stimulate the economy was as irresponsible as going into credit card debt.

With the COVID Lockdowns shutting off over half the economy, there wasn't enough cash to raise taxes on without going into a depression.

You really should have taken and passed some economics classes when in school Komrade. Meanwhile, get out and start a business and get some real world experience on economics.

 

[Stryder50]

Tax cuts have never paid down the national debt. Tax increases pay down the national debt, like they did when Clinton was president.

View attachment 930302

It's not just tax cuts or increases. It's the linkage to government spending and whether one increases or decreases deficit spending along with the tax rates.

 

[Stryder50]

I have a college degree and I make almost exactly what they say you will make if you get one. $1 million dollars more than a person without a degree. That's about $33,000 a year.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor, the average U.S. annual salary in Q4 of 2023 was $59,384. This is up 5.4% from the same time period in 2022 when the average American was making $56,316 per year.

$60K? I make over $90K. I make EXACTLY what I should be making.

Excuse my skepticism, but your forked tongue propaganda spiel, or spew in the OP makes me question the authenticity of your posts. Afterall;

So what is your degree in?
Is it just a Bachelor's, or do you have others?
What is you occupation?
Can you provide some links/documentation/sources for the numbers you present?

Also, check the numbers and data here, they don't match yours but likely are more reliable.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[Stryder50]

You forget I'm single no kids

I'm trying to find the link that said if you are single and have no kids you are considered upper class.

Here's one thing I'll give you. I've been saying this for a couple years. With inflation, you may actually be right today. Today I would need to make $150K to be considered upper class.

This reminds me of my real life situation. My youngest nephew will probably make as much as I do in his first job out of college. That doesn't bother me. It reminds me of when I graduated college and immediately made more than my parents. And my college didn't cost as much as my nephews so in today's society, college grads NEED to make $100K.

But it does suck that as you get older, you start seeing younger people who probably demand more than you do to work for the company you work for. The boss isn't going to say "hey Sealybobo, all the younger sales guys are making more than you". As far as he's concerned, that's none of my business.

And I'm happy. I don't think I will ever make $100K but I make close enough and have no bills so I'm happy with what I'm making/saving.

BUT, I am eventually going to ask my boss for a .001 increase in my commissions. If he does that then I might make a little OVER $100K. That for me would be a game changer. I might even buy a condo in Florida if that happens.

OR, I'll just save it. I want to retire at 62 so 9 years from now.

This might answer some of the questions I had of your earlier post, if this is true.

Sounds like you are in sales, and my experience is to be a good sales person often has more to do with personality than it does with a college degree, or general "education". So what is your line?

 

[Stryder50]

View attachment 930068
And not just uneducated white men. Women too.

Opinion | Capitalism is failing the white working class. And the results are deadly.

The astronomical costs of health care are draining jobs, hope and opportunity from working-class Americans.

www.nbcnews.com

Here's what I think. For centuries blue collar whites benefited from white privilege. Now that the privilege is gone, they're starting to act like the minorities they told to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Anyone can make it in America. You only have yourself to blame. Today white uneducated Republicans sound a lot like black people back during the Civil Rights movement.

In the 2000's Companies sent close to 1 million union jobs overseas. Those were the high paying jobs that uneducated white Americans had back when America was great. Republicans went to war with the unions in the 2000's as Bush sent all their high paying jobs overseas. This is why uneducated whites are doing so poorly today. And why they are so angry. But their anger is misdirected.

Couple of things about that article;
...
April 14, 2020, 1:30 AM PDT
By Anne Case and Angus Deaton
...
From about four years ago, so may not be up to date for the Biden impact (degrade).
............
Life expectancy at birth, often a good measure of social progress, saw a remarkable increase in the 20th century. But from 2013 to 2017, life expectancy fell for white Americans, and from 2014 to 2017, it fell for all Americans, a setback that had not been seen since the influenza pandemic a century earlier. We do not know how many deaths there will be from the coronavirus, but it is possible that life expectancy will fall again from 2019 to 2020.
...
Interestingly I recently saw some figures that where the USA was running at about 50,000 deaths per year from the flu, give or take several thousand; that first year or so of COVID saw flu deaths drop down towards about 10,000 or so and the COVID was the 50,000 or so.
Hmmm ???
.........
Our story is about the working class in general, but at least until 2013, deaths of despair were mostly among whites. Yet our story is remarkably similar to the story of joblessness, family disintegration and addiction among African Americans in the 1970s. Capitalism in America is turning against its least educated workers, and African Americans were first in line.

The astronomical costs of health care are draining jobs, hope and opportunity from working-class Americans. We are in favor of free-market capitalism, but economists have known for half a century that free markets cannot deliver health care, and American health care is more like a predatory conspiracy aided and abetted by government. It is no accident that the industry has five lobbyists in Washington for every member of Congress. How health care performs in dealing with the coronavirus will certainly affect whether this situation is allowed to continue.
....
Interesting how they fork tongue about blaming it on capitalism, then say they support capitalism.
Also, looks like they want to blame government for the rise in healthcare costs, but their bios suggest they are from that same faction that supported Obamacare, a.k.a. the Guv'mint getting more involved in healthcare. Ironically there is a case for a large part of the rise in healthcare cost is because of the increasing involvement of the government and that impact on extra costs to the insurance companies. among other factors.
..........
Anne Case is the Alexander Stewart 1886 Professor of Economics and Public Affairs Emeritus at Princeton University. Angus Deaton, winner of the 2015 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics, is the Dwight D. Eisenhower Professor of Economics and International Affairs Emeritus at Princeton University and Presidential Professor of Economics at the University of Southern California. In March, Princeton University Press published their book "Deaths of Despair and the Future of Capitalism."
....
Academics with no experience in capitalism=wealth creation (for profit business) yet are experts on the subject.

This is another case of confusing "education" (lots of money spent on tuition, lots of time in the classroom) with knowledge. My 50+ years in business and industry has taught that except for degreed areas such as engineering, medicine, and some sciences, most college degree "educated" graduates often don't know as much as the better high school students from 50+ years ago.

I'm reminded of an old adage from back then:
"A" students teach the "B" students how to get a job and work for "C" students.
Point being that it was usually the not so "educated" who have the gumption, drive, and determination to start businesses that will provide the jobs and grow the economy.

 

[sealybobo]

Excuse my skepticism, but your forked tongue propaganda spiel, or spew in the OP makes me question the authenticity of your posts. Afterall;

So what is your degree in?
Is it just a Bachelor's, or do you have others?
What is you occupation?
Can you provide some links/documentation/sources for the numbers you present?

Also, check the numbers and data here, they don't match yours but likely are more reliable.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Organizational Communication Bachelor of Arts with a minor in Marketing. I never claimed to be a good student or smart when it comes to school. I'd probably do a lot better now than I did back then. Back then it was get done as quick as possible. I took all the level 1 classes in Marketing, no way I was going to pass the level 2 classes to get a business degree. So I got the jock degree. Communications. But I always knew what I wanted to do. Sales. First I thought stock broker but that didn't happen. I did great in sales during the Clinton years and struggled during the Bush 2000's. In MI. Lots of our jobs went overseas because they were blue collar and paid a lot. This is what pisses me off. The idiots voting for Trump and Republicans today, lost their jobs in the 2000's. And Republicans said it was their fault. They sucked and were over paid. Which was half true!!! Deplorables is what we call them now. Suckers if they think Trump is going to put more money in their pockets. Meanwhile, Biden and Unions are doing just that.

In the horrible 2000's I was an enrollment counselor for University of Phoenix. Don't laugh. I think it's great for some people. If you are an adult who works they have a great program where you can do it once a week or on your own time. And they teach you what employers are looking for. They're accredited. And I got a better job with what I learned there. I was getting a masters in management. It didn't have the hard classes the MBA had. I was 1/3 the way through with a 3.3 gpa and I got a better job so I quit and stopped taking the classes. Because they were free but only if I worked there.

Link documentation sources for what? For how much I make? Nope. Fuck you. LOL

 

[Moonglow]

Ashli Babbitt was MURDERED by cowardly officer Byrd. Babbitt did not die of "economic despair" she died of a bullet to the neck. Ashli Babbitt was married and ran her own business and was a Veteran who did several tours in Afghanistan.

And should have known better than to do what she did.

 

[sealybobo]

And should have known better than to do what she did.

Funny how they think Kyle Rittenhouse can shoot people coming at him violently but Capitol Hill officers can't shoot one person in an angry mob to get them to stop.

Guess what? It worked. The mob suddenly stopped breaking through the glass because in reality most of them were Karen's and Darren's.

 

[Woodznutz]

If you 'bell curve' the numbers/data, you see that a minority of the 65+ hold the majority of the wealth.

That's what I said.

 

[Libby von H]

Tax cuts for the rich did not work.

Biden's tuitiion cancellation would affect many of the staffers, congressional help and bureau employees.
Stop kidding yourself