Why Was No One Armed & Shooting Back In El Paso WalMart ?

[Gracie]

It is becoming clear that he was a Trump supporter

Twitter account linked to the suspected shooter
shows him sharing and retweeting President Trump's tweets, posting about the border wall and liking memes disparaging Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi.

Crusius' Twitter account liked a post from an anonymous account showing Trump's name spelled out with guns.

Just a couple days before, he posted a tweet saying, "#BuildTheWall is the best way @POTUS has worked to secure our country so far!"

I'm a trump supporter and like lots of what he says or what someone else tweets what he says. I also have never thought about mass murdering a bunch of strangers, nor do I blame Sanders or Pelosi. Maybe because I'm sane and those who do this shit..aren't?

 

[protectionist]

Addressing reporters in Morristown, New Jersey, Trump promised "we're going to take care" of the problem. He said he's been speaking to the attorney general, FBI director and members of Congress and will be making an additional statement Monday morning.

Is Trump about to cave in to Democrats and issue a new ban on certain long guns?

That would do nothing to take care of the problem. Criminals don't need stores to buy guns.

What Trump may be thinking of doing is to abolish the abominations known as "Gun-free Zones". Turn the green lights to red for the shooters.

 

[protectionist]

WE have the most good guys with guns in the world and yet we have the most gun death.

Liberals just can't seem to get this issue correct.

EARTH TO BRAIN: NO, we DON'T have the most good guys with guns in the world, at least not in the buildings where they need to be, because those buildings are GUN-FREE ZONES, so the good guys aren't there with their guns.

That's why we need to abolish the gun-free zones. Get it ?

Is this beginnng to focus in for you now ? (after 342 posts in this thread)

 

[protectionist]

Lets hope.

You still don't get it.

 

[protectionist]

No advantage? Other than being easier to shoot accurately and having higher magazine capacity than most pistols, and having much better ballistics, you might be right.

Actually, you're completely wrong, and for a military veteran, you should know better. In an open field, at a distant target, the rifle might easier to shoot accurately. But in a confined indoor place, at very close range, it's just the opposite. Advantage is to the pistol (in that scenario).

As for magazine capacity, the standard magazine capacity is 30 rounds for an AK47. Pistols generally are less, but it takes about 3 seconds to change clips in a semiautomatic pistol. 1-remove clip....2-insert new clip....3-pull slide. Done.

 

[protectionist]

Not from me. But you, apparently expect a largely untrained civilian to be able to determine how many shooters there are, where the shooters are, and shoot them accurately despite your heartbeat racing and absolute panic filling you.

I would expect that from most CCW holders , yes.

 

[protectionist]

If you see him before he sees you.

That is understood.

 

[Kilroy2]

A business that posted a gun free zone is just saying that you cannot walk around with a gun showing as Texas has open carry gun law and to prevent people from openly carrying a gun in ones business location they will put up the sign.

I do not believe that they do body searches or have metal detectors so basically if you open carry a gun u just hide it while in a zone that post the sign as they can ask you to leave.

So if they have guns they still have them but conceal it in these zones

 

[protectionist]

There was at least one person with a carry license in the mall. Given it was TX I would imagine there were many.

El Paso shooting witness describes trying to help kids escape as gunman opened fire

To stop a mass shooter, it requires the license AND THE GUN (prohibited by policy)

 

[protectionist]

That is nonsense. Any officer responding to the call would treat any armed person as the perpetrator.

That is nonsense. 911 dispatchers, having spoken to shoppers, and briefed on the shooters description, relay it to the cops. Upon arrival they will know the suspect.

Also, long before the 6 minutes for cops to arrive, the killer could/should be dead, and cops will have a mop up job. This is what happened in the actual cases I cited earlier.

 

[protectionist]

If you hit your target. Are you willing to risk the lives of the people running around behind the shooter on you being 100% accurate?

It wouldn't be a risk, if you are very close to the "target", From a very short distance, I don't miss. Neither do most CCWs.

Stop trying to find ways to dismiss the CCW fix. Are you trying to maximize casualties ?

Do you tell cops (who are further away) to not shoot ?

 

[Kilroy2]

That is nonsense. Any officer responding to the call would treat any armed person as the perpetrator.

That is nonsense. 911 dispatchers, having spoken to shoppers, and briefed on the shooters description, relay it to the cops. Upon arrival they will know the suspect.

Also, long before the 6 minutes for cops to arrive, the killer could/should be dead, and cops will have a mop up job. This is what happened in the actual cases I cited earlier.

People calling 911 are hysterical especially in a shooting and there is no guarantee that they are going to give a description of the shooter as they are probably hiding or running away

They get to the scene they will point a gun at you if you have one and sort it out later. As long as you comply to their orders then it should be alright

but the fact remains at a shooting, they do not know how many shooters their may be and the reason for the shooting as it could be a robbery, personal beef with someone, or a mass shooting

 

[protectionist]

No. Standard operating procedure in such a situation is to treat everyone with a gun the same. YOu will be ordered to surrender and shot if you do not do so fast enough. Better hope your hearing recovers from a shootout indoors quickly enough to hear the orders.

Cops won't see CCW guy with a gun. His (or THEIR) guns will be put away, and suspect will be dead, long before cops arrive. It took them 6 minutes to get to the mall. Killer should eliminated a few seconds after he starts shooting.

 

[protectionist]

Truth is, it is more likely that more deaths and more violence would be the result of disarming America. But few if any on the left dare to think it over.

Nothing dumber than disarming trained, law-abiding, citizens, thereby allowing armed criminals to run amok.

 

[protectionist]

Don't know if you considered it, but being ARMED has a LOT uses in a chaotic mass shooting.. Instead of playing RAMBO -- you can do like MOST of the armed police do and SAVE lives that you can.. Having a gun with you makes you more likely to be able to defend those you're trying to rescue...

You have a very simplistic view of what the value is to be armed.. Providing safety to a group by being armed is what most officers on scene are doing. Very few have the opportunity to "take the perp down"....

The greatest safety is provided by deterring shooters from coming, by having armed people present. This is a red light to the shooters.

By taking away this deterrent, the shooters get a green light, and clear invitation to come in and shoot up the place. This is where shootings occur, In gun-free zones where shooters are like electricity following the path of least resistance.

Yes it is quite simple indeed. No need to make anything more complex out of it.

So you got an answer to the title of the thread ? If so, let's hear it.

 

[Kilroy2]

San Diego Officer Shoots Self Pursuing Suspect Near Marathon


An officer was accidentally shot pursuing an active shooter suspect in downtown San Diego during the Rock 'n' Roll Marathon. Police arrested a woman who had been armed with an airsoft gun.


TN Firearms Instructor Accidentally Shot During Training


A Jackson (TN) Police Department Firearms Instructor who was injured when he was accidentally shot by another officer during training

Ohio Sheriff's Sergeant Killed in Accidental Shooting


Sgt. Alvin Adams of the Wood County (OH) Sheriff’s Office died Saturday morning after an apparent accidental discharge of his personal weapon, according to Sheriff Mark Wasylyshyn.

NC Deputy Fired After Accidentally Shooting Her Daughter


An off-duty Lincoln County (NC) Sheriff's deputy was showing her service weapon to people at her house when she accidentally fired the gun, causing a bullet to go through a wall and hit her 11-year-old daughter, officials said. More Here.

Accidential shootings are real even for those who have had the training.

At least 73 juveniles under age 12 were killed last year, roughly the same pace as the previous five years. 2018

Unintentional Shootings | Gun Violence Archive

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't know if you considered it, but being ARMED has a LOT uses in a chaotic mass shooting.. Instead of playing RAMBO -- you can do like MOST of the armed police do and SAVE lives that you can.. Having a gun with you makes you more likely to be able to defend those you're trying to rescue...

You have a very simplistic view of what the value is to be armed.. Providing safety to a group by being armed is what most officers on scene are doing. Very few have the opportunity to "take the perp down"....

The greatest safety is provided by deterring shooters from coming, by having armed people present. This is a red light to the shooters.

By taking away this deterrent, the shooters get a green light, and clear invitation to come in and shoot up the place. This is where shootings occur, In gun-free zones where shooters are like electricity following the path of least resistance.

Yes it is quite simple indeed. No need to make anything more complex out of it.

So you got an answer to the title of the thread ? If so, let's hear it.

I just TOLD you the answer.. Don't NEED 40 Rambos with CC license (or open carry) trying to off the shooter when THOUSANDS of people are in danger.. They can be useful by providing paths to safety and protection for groups of panicked people.. Out of the 200 or more armed police that responded, MOST ALL of them were doing THAT and not hunting down the shooter..

More armed, trained civilians with guns, the more people can be protected and taken to safety... IF -- the shooter HAPPENS to appear while you're whisking up kids and getting them out -- then you take the shot... Walmarts are BIG places.. And it was absolute chaos..

 

[Kilroy2]

It is becoming clear that he was a Trump supporter

Twitter account linked to the suspected shooter
shows him sharing and retweeting President Trump's tweets, posting about the border wall and liking memes disparaging Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi.

Crusius' Twitter account liked a post from an anonymous account showing Trump's name spelled out with guns.

Just a couple days before, he posted a tweet saying, "#BuildTheWall is the best way @POTUS has worked to secure our country so far!"

I'm a trump supporter and like lots of what he says or what someone else tweets what he says. I also have never thought about mass murdering a bunch of strangers, nor do I blame Sanders or Pelosi. Maybe because I'm sane and those who do this shit..aren't?

I wouldn't argue that point as the majority of trump supporters aren't mass murderers

just this one

 

[protectionist]

We have checks and balances for tyranny. They have suited us quite well.

The UK homicide rate is a small fraction of ours. In fact our homicide rate is 4-5X higher than countries with strong gun control.

"our homicide rate" >>> 5.30 per 100K residents

Countries with strong gun control
Bahamas >>> 30.9
Curacao >>> 19.2
Dominica >> 25.7
Jamaica >> 57.0
Trinidad >> 30.9
Virgin Isl >> 49.2
Belize >> 37.9
El Salvador 61.8
Honduras > 41.7
Brazil >>> 30.5
Venezuela >> 56.3
Russia >>> 9.2
Mexico >>> 24.8

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

 

[protectionist]

I just TOLD you the answer.. Don't NEED 40 Rambos with CC license (or open carry) trying to off the shooter when THOUSANDS of people are in danger.. They can be useful by providing paths to safety and protection for groups of panicked people.. Out of the 200 or more armed police that responded, MOST ALL of them were doing THAT and not hunting down the shooter..

More armed, trained civilians with guns, the more people can be protected and taken to safety... IF -- the shooter HAPPENS to appear while you're whisking up kids and getting them out -- then you take the shot... Walmarts are BIG places.. And it was absolute chaos..

So was this post.