Why wouldn't Jesus...

[Lonestar_logic]

God gave humans free will to abort. End of story.

Humans also have free will to murder. So does that mean murder is ok?

If we go by the number of guns and murders in the US and what the US army is allowed to do around the world, my answer would be YES!

If murder is ok then why are people arrested for it?

And what about raping a child? I guess using your logic that would be ok too.

 

[Intense]

God gave humans free will to abort. End of story.

Humans also have free will to murder. So does that mean murder is ok?

If we go by the number of guns and murders in the US and what the US army is allowed to do around the world, my answer would be YES!

Peanut your future holds one choice. It is important that you consider this before the decision is made for you. Creamy or Chunky?

What is this nonsense about U.S. Troops around the world murdering innocents?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Peanut is nothing but a troll.

 

[Ravi]

This is mentioned in the book of Enoch. It says in there that abortion was taught by the fallen angels (the ones that made wives of the daughters of men).
You might want to check the OT on this one. The Hebrews were punished for practicing infantcide (age the only factor) with the god, Mollech (nasty fellow, working today in the abortion clinics). How can you love your G*d if you are destroying a gift He gave you?

Wow...Jesus was in the OT? What Bible do you read?

Jesus was referred to plenty in the Old testament.


Psalms Chapter 22.

The Holy Bible



Isiah Chapter 53.

The Holy Bible

He wasn't speaking in the OT...which was my point somewhere above...Jesus never mentioned abortion, therefore we cannot be positive he would consider it a sin.

 

[Intense]

Wow...Jesus was in the OT? What Bible do you read?

Jesus was referred to plenty in the Old testament.


Psalms Chapter 22.

The Holy Bible



Isiah Chapter 53.

The Holy Bible

He wasn't speaking in the OT...which was my point somewhere above...Jesus never mentioned abortion, therefore we cannot be positive he would consider it a sin.

Ravi, Abortion is Heavy. A better defense would be to recognize that we all fall short. What's past is past. What is future or present has other alternatives.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If we go by the number of guns and murders in the US and what the US army is allowed to do around the world, my answer would be YES!

Peanut your future holds one choice. It is important that you consider this before the decision is made for you. Creamy or Chunky?

What is this nonsense about U.S. Troops around the world murdering innocents?

What do you call irakis? They had nothing to do with 9/11. And Afghans caught in the US colonization of their country?

Hey stupid, the US is not colonizing Afghanistan and the Iraqis that fought against us, was the enemy.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What do you call irakis? They had nothing to do with 9/11. And Afghans caught in the US colonization of their country?

Hey stupid, the US is not colonizing Afghanistan and the Iraqis that fought against us, was the enemy.

You mean you just attacked irak in self defense? All those civilians who died, they attack you as well? Wow! You really think that? Poor guy.
But you're right the US isn't colonizing afghanistan, you're incapable of it.

Attacked Iraq in self defense? Who the fuck is saying that? If you're going to present an intelligent argument,( which you haven't yet) at least use the proper spelling. You sound like a ten year old that played hookie from school.

Oh and for your information, civilian casualties happen in all wars. Civilians were not targeted in Iraq you stupid fuck!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You mean you just attacked irak in self defense? All those civilians who died, they attack you as well? Wow! You really think that? Poor guy.
But you're right the US isn't colonizing afghanistan, you're incapable of it.

Attacked Iraq in self defense? Who the fuck is saying that? If you're going to present an intelligent argument,( which you haven't yet) at least use the proper spelling. You sound like a ten year old that played hookie from school.

Oh and for your information, civilian casualties happen in all wars. Civilians were not targeted in Iraq you stupid fuck!

Bush shoulda been put on trial in the Hague, he's a war criminal. And why are you fighting the taliban, wasn't it Osama and his henchmen who did 9/11? Why not look for him?

What evidence do you have that Bush committed a crime?

The reason we are fighting the taliban is because they are attacking our soldiers and they're providing a safe haven for Al Queada. It seems Osama may be hiding in Pakistan and we have missions currently going on there as well.

Now try answering the questions I posed to you. If you're not too fucking stupid to respond.

 

[Care4all]

Wow...Jesus was in the OT? What Bible do you read?

Jesus was referred to plenty in the Old testament.


Psalms Chapter 22.

The Holy Bible



Isiah Chapter 53.

The Holy Bible

He wasn't speaking in the OT...which was my point somewhere above...Jesus never mentioned abortion, therefore we cannot be positive he would consider it a sin.

Well, I think i'm pretty positive that Jesus would consider it a sin, or as falling 'short' of being perfect, as God....(I can soundly go in to why I have come to believe this, if you feel it necessary)

but I am with certainty.... positive it is a sin Jesus/God would forgive.

That's how I view it.

care

 

[logical4u]

Don't confuse jesus with the church or government

jesus was a man (maybe) who believed in free will and individual choice

church, government or whatever institution you want to use to enact the will of the people compels via threat of violence not individual choice.

I find it hard to believe (literally since I am an atheist) that the jesus you speak of would condone a society that forced people to be charitable or suffer the consequences of some sort of legal retribution.

Are you saying Jesus was anti-church?

I don't know if Jesus would want people to be forced to be charitable...after all, that wouldn't earn them any brownie points. But I don't think he would object to a government that is charitable or lose any sleep over the fact that some in the group were put out by the method of giving.

The greater good, IMO, is what he would be looking for so I also don't buy your argument.

Will you please read the Declaration of Independence for me and explain what it means? We might be able to understand each other if you do.
Yeshua wanted the individual to become the best person they possibly could (He gave us guidelines to do that with the OT and the NT). If every single person is the best person they can be, they will infuence their family and those around them to be better too. If every person in a family, community, country are the very best people they can be, there is no need for a government, period. If really good people are of a single mind and productive, they must have some kind of security, otherwise people that aren't so good will steal everything they have and hurt them (like a country); that requires a government.
Are you following me?
Kings, dictators, tyrants, ___opolies all require SUBJECTS (everything they have is because the "gov" gives it to them or "permits" them to obtain it). This gov exists to take from the SUBJECTS. The only time they go to war is to keep their land (and subjects) or to take more land (and subjects) from someone else. Are you still with me?
Your " society that forced people to be charitable or suffer the consequences of some sort of legal retribution" requires SUBJECTS. There are numerous governments that operate with SUBJECTS, and some of them have actually sold the idea of "charity" to SUBJUGATE the population. Most of those countries where that happened witnessed crimes untold and to numerous to record. The populations are either sorry they fell for that line of crap or will soon find out they were fed a line of crap.
Question for all of you utopian thinkers: if the USA is sooo bad, why are people from almost every other country on earth trying to get here? If there are other places that operate the way you wish this country would operate, why don't you move there? Is it because you want to steal what other people have earned and you want to enslave them to make your little pipe dreams happen?
Read the Declaration of Independence, PLEASE.

 

[logical4u]

WOULD he consider it a sin? I don't know...after all, he never said anything about abortion.

This is mentioned in the book of Enoch. It says in there that abortion was taught by the fallen angels (the ones that made wives of the daughters of men).
You might want to check the OT on this one. The Hebrews were punished for practicing infantcide (age the only factor) with the god, Mollech (nasty fellow, working today in the abortion clinics). How can you love your G*d if you are destroying a gift He gave you?

Wow...Jesus was in the OT? What Bible do you read?

Many prophesies in the OT are about Yeshua. When Yeshua was here, He told His followers that He was not here to replace the law, but to fullfill the law. Did you check out Mollech? Yeshua also did not mention cleaning out someone's "401K", but yet most of us still recognize that it is wrong (sinful stealing).
He did not use the same terms we use today. He said to love your G*d before all else (how can you do that when you are killing a life that He made?). He said to love your neighbor as yourself (how can you love yourself when you are killing your own child, part of you?).
You want to redefine a child into an impersonal term like embryo or fetus, so you don't have to consider, if that being was not murdered, a child would be born, not a cat, not a dog, only a child can be born. And then you want to talk about "forced charity", what about the charity for the murdered children, what do you have for them?

 

[logical4u]

If you look at the countries that have governments (Cuba, USSR, Cambodia, China, Venezuela) that got power due to telling "the poor" they would have a share (the wealth redistributed), you will see they are either:
in the toilet
headed for the toilet
or swinging to the conservative (capitalist) way.

Your arguement holds no water. Yeshua said that those that are not againt us (Him) are for us (Him). I guess that means whether they acknowledge Him or not.

Your post actually has nothing to do with what I said nor does it refute it.

Sorry, I thought it was pretty clear: the societies that have claimed to be "all about taking care of the poor" are miserable failures. They are corrupt with leaders that are far more concerned about their personal wealth, than the basic needs of the poor.

This country (on the other hand) was intended to allow people the freedom to make their own way (they are not held down by culture and social status as in other countries). People here have started with nothing: no money, no education, no family and have still managed to make a descent life (in some cases, become millionaires).

The plan you suggest (if ever accepted) will allow corruption and abuse of citizens. Please explain to me I have to labor for other people's families before one cent goes to my family. Please tell me why I am forced to pay for others' college, so that I cannot send my children to college without taking out a loan or selecting a lesser college. Please explain to me, why my family must "settle" for less, so that families that continually make bad choices can live better.
I know all of this is so. Explain to me how it makes me free and not a slave.
If you set up a society where the gov (the very, very corrupt, unaccountable gov) claims it will make it better for the poor, it will be abused and there will still be poor. If you do not believe me: check the dems "war on poverty", the reason for welfare and see how that is working out for the country.
You know your statement won't work. When it is demonstrated how it won't work, you just repeat the statement instead of giving examples of where it has worked.
Please show us how your great theory CAN work, and don't say that should be another thread.

I'm sorry that you think our society is corrupt to this extent. All societies have their problems, ours does, too...but I disagree about the extent.

You have a choice, you can live elsewhere or you can stop making money..

Why can't you live elsewhere or earn money?
BTW: if the money makers stop "making money", there will be no money to support these programs you claim to be "essential". Then all of us will be starving in the streets with extended bellies. Check out what happened in Zimbabwe when that "leader" REDISTRIBUTED the wealth, clue: it is all gone (except what the leader has) and the people ARE starving, and diseased.

From what I understand, before we had welfare we had American children living like starving kids in third world countries...distended bellies, high rate of death...etc. I don't think getting rid or reducing the plight of kids is a bad thing, you seem to.

I think the ways we help the poor can and should be changed but I don't think it would be a good thing to let Americans die in the streets. .

Nice way to avoid the questions "Explain to me how it makes me free and not a slave.
If you set up a society where the gov claims it will make it better for the poor, it will be abused and there will still be poor. If you do not believe me: check the dems "war on poverty", the reason for welfare and see how that is working out for the country.
You know your statement won't work. When it is demonstrated how it won't work, you just repeat the statement instead of giving examples of where it has worked.
Please show us how your great theory CAN work, and don't say that should be another thread. You are sounding like a looped commercial that automatically repeats. Try explaining.

 

[logical4u]

Wow...Jesus was in the OT? What Bible do you read?

Jesus was referred to plenty in the Old testament.


Psalms Chapter 22.

The Holy Bible



Isiah Chapter 53.

The Holy Bible

He wasn't speaking in the OT...which was my point somewhere above...Jesus never mentioned abortion, therefore we cannot be positive he would consider it a sin.

Hi,
For three years Yeshua performed miracles and spoke (with authority) to people that came to Him to listen. There is no record of Him performing one abortion (even miracuously). There is no record of the physician that traveled with Him performing one abortion. There is no record of Yeshua teaching any of the multitudes that it was "good" to end the life of a child. Yeshua did say that it would be better to jump into a pit of fire than harm one child (He didn't say anything about an age requirement); He went on to say the punishment would be severe.
I know that is not the word "abortion", for people like you, it will take that face to face meeting before you acknowledge His power over you.

 

[Ravi]

I'm not going to bother addressing your points. You are extremely judgmental and you are making all kinds of assumptions about what I do and do not believe.

I asked a simple question, it has been answered to my satisfaction.

 

[Yurt]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

they do....without reading the rest of the thread, i am sure this is a broad swipe at republicans.....churches do far better for the poor than the government....

thread fail

 

[Ravi]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

they do....without reading the rest of the thread, i am sure this is a broad swipe at republicans.....churches do far better for the poor than the government....

thread fail

It was actually against some Christians, but nice try.

btw, can you prove that the churches do better for the poor than government? I'd like to see you do that.

 

[Smartt33]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

they do....without reading the rest of the thread, i am sure this is a broad swipe at republicans.....churches do far better for the poor than the government....

thread fail

It was actually against some Christians, but nice try.

btw, can you prove that the churches do better for the poor than government? I'd like to see you do that.

Contrary to the beliefs of the liberals, Christian organizations do not attach strings to their charity. (There may be a tiny few who do) Social welfare, or help for the poor has strings attached, and costs attached, and allows for fraud and is often hateful in the delivering of the services. That is not what Jesus would have us do.

Of course, if the money could be directed by ethical people, not politicians and greedy organizations, it might work.

Can you prove that the government does a better job than churches? Have you been in a large number of churches who do serve the community through charities?

 

[Intense]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

they do....without reading the rest of the thread, i am sure this is a broad swipe at republicans.....churches do far better for the poor than the government....

thread fail

It was actually against some Christians, but nice try.

btw, can you prove that the churches do better for the poor than government? I'd like to see you do that.

Every day, Ravi. There are Shelters, Kitchens, Pantry's, Networks, Some even in partnership with Government funding Because the Government knows it is effective. They are also generally volunteer. Some Zero overhead. It's not a contest though Ravi. You can Volunteer near.

 

[Avatar4321]

It was actually against some Christians, but nice try.

btw, can you prove that the churches do better for the poor than government? I'd like to see you do that.

Simple, unlike politicians, Church's dont have any sort of motivation to keep people poor to recieve votes.

 

[Intense]

It was actually against some Christians, but nice try.

btw, can you prove that the churches do better for the poor than government? I'd like to see you do that.

Simple, unlike politicians, Church's dont have any sort of motivation to keep people poor to recieve votes.

Usually not many restrictions other than things like not showing up shit faced drunk, beating on others in line. They generally have more toleration than you would find in a government aid office.