Why you're not wealthy

[loosecannon]

"What I am saying is that 90% of what determines your outcome in life has nothing at all to do with your choices, efforts, ideas."

No I didn't. The quote you pasted says nothing like your paraphrase. So what you are basically saying is that you never did stop beating your wife?

I didn't paraphrase any of the above quote.

of course you did:

Quote: Originally Posted by Bern80 View Post

Again what you're basically saying is that we should all just sit on our asses and hope the luck fairy lands on us. Who we are and what we become has nothing to do with the choices we make? Talk about the ultimate cop out for an underachiever.

 

[Bern80]

"What I am saying is that 90% of what determines your outcome in life has nothing at all to do with your choices, efforts, ideas."

I didn't paraphrase any of the above quote.

of course you did:

Quote: Originally Posted by Bern80 View Post

Again what you're basically saying is that we should all just sit on our asses and hope the luck fairy lands on us. Who we are and what we become has nothing to do with the choices we make? Talk about the ultimate cop out for an underachiever.

I'm sorry you don't grasp the reality of your own statements. If what you say is true, that my outcomes are not dependent on my effort, it begs the question what is the point of putting forth any effort if there is nothing to be gained by it?

 

[loosecannon]

I didn't paraphrase any of the above quote.

of course you did:

Quote: Originally Posted by Bern80 View Post

Again what you're basically saying is that we should all just sit on our asses and hope the luck fairy lands on us. Who we are and what we become has nothing to do with the choices we make? Talk about the ultimate cop out for an underachiever.

I'm sorry you don't grasp the reality of your own statements. If what you say is true, that my outcomes are not dependent on my effort, it begs the question what is the point of putting forth any effort if there is nothing to be gained by it?

of course I said no such thing. Your efforts are not 100% causative. They could be 10% causative or 90% causative depending on a wide range of variables.

But as a general rule I assert that society and nature earn 90% of your income for you. Esp our society.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Will do my best. Now, care to actually comment on any substance? Or are you content to think you won an argument by not actually addressing it?

I'm wealthy so, not really anything to debate, for me.

I got there by not being sloppy, lazy, careless and illiterate. And by never, ever taking out any type of loan, for anything. Ever.

And by following this advice in everything I did, not just even the small stuff, but especially the small stuff:

Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch... excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good.

I'm 49, been retired since age 43.... Never have to work for money no matter how long I live. And now you know why.

Good for you. Though, all the more interesting that you preffered to point out the innocuois. Maybe you need to find new ways to occupy your time in early retirement.

I always have time to educate.

And it's "innocuous."

 

[Samson]

Indeed, there are no entrepreneurs in my family, and I don't know anyone who would have the vaguest idea how to start a business and maintain it.

But the One Hard and Fast Rule is to maintain as little Debt as possible.

Of course this is entirely contrary to the risk-taker, who will borrow whatever he need to make his dream a reality, gambling that, "if he builds it, then they will come."

Actually most of the wealthy would say otherwise. They generally have an extreme aversion to risk. Warren Buffet comapred investing to swinging a baseball bat. People think it's hack, hack, hack and hope you get lucky and hit the ball. The difference is in investing and what people need to remember is you there are no balls and strikes, there's no time limit. You never have to 'swing' until all of the conditions are just right.

No you mis-understood:

Those wanting to BECOME Weathy take educated risks.

Those ALREADY Wealthy, or financially secure, do not take risks.

 

[Bern80]

of course you did:

I'm sorry you don't grasp the reality of your own statements. If what you say is true, that my outcomes are not dependent on my effort, it begs the question what is the point of putting forth any effort if there is nothing to be gained by it?

of course I said no such thing. Your efforts are not 100% causative. They could be 10% causative or 90% causative depending on a wide range of variables.

But as a general rule I assert that society and nature earn 90% of your income for you. Esp our society.

Which, like it or not, is the same thing as saying that the amount of effort you put forth in attempting to attain wealth is mostly irrelevant in whether or not wealth will actually be attained.

 

[Bern80]

I'm wealthy so, not really anything to debate, for me.

I got there by not being sloppy, lazy, careless and illiterate. And by never, ever taking out any type of loan, for anything. Ever.

And by following this advice in everything I did, not just even the small stuff, but especially the small stuff:

Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch... excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good.

I'm 49, been retired since age 43.... Never have to work for money no matter how long I live. And now you know why.

Good for you. Though, all the more interesting that you preffered to point out the innocuois. Maybe you need to find new ways to occupy your time in early retirement.

I always have time to educate.

And it's "innocuous."

Again interesting that you would rather educate me on innocent mistakes considering we agree in principle, but you won't take on someone like loose who's principles you do disagree with.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Good for you. Though, all the more interesting that you preffered to point out the innocuois. Maybe you need to find new ways to occupy your time in early retirement.

I always have time to educate.

And it's "innocuous."

Again interesting that you would rather educate me on innocent mistakes considering we agree in principle, but you won't take on someone like loose who's principles you do disagree with.

It's more interesting that you keep making the same type of errors. This carelessness and sloppiness probably extends to everything you do, including your rational thought processes.

And again -- in this thread there's really nothing for me to debate. I can only tell you what worked for me. I believe it will work for everyone, they just have to have the relentless dedication I spoke of, and not be satisfied with "innocent" mistakes.

Ever heard of "positive discontent?"

 

[Bern80]

It's more interesting that you keep making the same type of errors. This carelessness and sloppiness probably extends to everything you do, including your rational thought processes.

The fact is I know me better than you know me. I know my spelling errors are not the result of an inability to spell. They are the result of being in a hurry. I make time for it when it matters (like in writing papers for my masters). I tend not to worry as much about it on message boards, because only the truly anal who are simply looking to be disagreeable about something are going to focus on that over the substance of what I wrote. Further I simply don't buy into the theory that it will have any measruable affect on my wealth accumulation potential.

And again -- in this thread there's really nothing for me to debate. I can only tell you what worked for me. I believe it will work for everyone, they just have to have the relentless dedication I spoke of, and not be satisfied with "innocent" mistakes.

Not with me there isn't no. So the fact that you chose to reply to and focus on me as oppossed to those on here you truly disagree with says far more about you than it does about me. You have nothing to debate? Sure you do. You claimed being wealthy took considerable effort on your part. On the other hand you have loose over here who has argued that your effort was irrelevant in the wealth you attained. Which means he is arguing you would likely have been wealthy regardless of your effort. So why did you even bother with the effort? Wouldn't it have been great to have known twenty years ago that you would still be where you are now with less effort?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

It's more interesting that you keep making the same type of errors. This carelessness and sloppiness probably extends to everything you do, including your rational thought processes.

The fact is I know me better than you know me. I know my spelling errors are not the result of an inability to spell. They are the result of being in a hurry. I make time for it when it matters (like in writing papers for my masters). I tend not to worry as much about it on message boards, because only the truly anal who are simply looking to be disagreeable about something are going to focus on that over the substance of what I wrote. Further I simply don't buy into the theory that it will have any measruable affect on my wealth accumulation potential.

Because it takes constant attention to detail and relentlessness, the lazy never will buy into it.

Not with me there isn't no. So the fact that you chose to reply to and focus on me as oppossed to those on here you truly disagree with says far more about you than it does about me. You have nothing to debate? Sure you do. You claimed being wealthy took considerable effort on your part. On the other hand you have loose over here who has argued that your effort was irrelevant in the wealth you attained. Which means he is arguing you would likely have been wealthy regardless of your effort. So why did you even bother with the effort? Wouldn't it have been great to have known twenty years ago that you would still be where you are now with less effort?

I don't know if I agree with them or not, since I have not been reading their posts.

See how that works?

You claimed being wealthy took considerable effort on your part.

Show me where I said that. It was actually very EASY once the principles were fully understood and fully applied. I spent years just like you -- thinking the little stuff does not matter in the grand scheme. But I learned, YES IT DOES! Because the habits you develop on the little stuff, the sloppiness, the carelessness, translate to the big stuff. The relentless pursuit of perfection isn't something you can turn on and off like a spigot. Like your sloppiness and carelessness, it becomes second nature, habitual. That's when the GOOD things start to happen.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The topic of the thread is "Why you're not wealthy" and I am telling you why, and also how to achieve.

 

[loosecannon]

Which, like it or not, is the same thing as saying that the amount of effort you put forth in attempting to attain wealth is mostly irrelevant in whether or not wealth will actually be attained.

your words not mine. I said something other.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I know my spelling errors are not the result of an inability to spell. They are the result of being in a hurry. I make time for it when it matters (like in writing papers for my masters). I tend not to worry as much about it on message boards

If it's worth doing at all, it is worth doing right! It doesn't take any real extra effort! Seriously.

It's a mindset, s0n.

 

[Bern80]

Which, like it or not, is the same thing as saying that the amount of effort you put forth in attempting to attain wealth is mostly irrelevant in whether or not wealth will actually be attained.

your words not mine. I said something other.

Words have meaning loose. The exact same idea can be expressed more than one way. The simple fact is you believe the original statement you made:

"What I am saying is that 90% of what determines your outcome in life has nothing at all to do with your choices, efforts, ideas."

But you don't believe the very same idea stated a different way: That effort and choices are mostly irreleveant in terms of attaining wealth. Wealth is an outcome loose. And you stated choices and effort play little role in outcomes.

 

[Bern80]

If it's worth doing at all, it is worth doing right! It doesn't take any real extra effort! Seriously.

It's a mindset, s0n.

I agree. It matters when it matters and in this particular forum, it doesn't matter......pops.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

If it's worth doing at all, it is worth doing right! It doesn't take any real extra effort! Seriously.

It's a mindset, s0n.

I agree. It matters when it matters and in this particular forum, it doesn't matter.

You don't understand the concept.

 

[Trajan]

And the truth is that many of the wealthy are not all that wealthy. I'm not a Wall Street guru but I think the way it works (or so I've been told) is that someone buys (with actual money) some stocks. The expectation is to get good returns (profits/interest) for their investment. As the values of the stocks rise and fall the returns are either good or bad. A lot of people reinvest those returns to buy more stock rather than getting a check for the amount of the return.

Basically the buyer has "loaned" money to a company to grow, improve their product, create new jobs because of growth, etc.

These investments are called "paper money." In other words, the nasty wealthy investors haven't got squat until they actually cash in or sell those stocks and get actual money from the transaction. If a company they've invested in goes belly up there is no actual money to repay interest on the "loan" and the investor has also lost all the actual money he spent in the first place by making investments and reinvestments.

That's what caused all these people to jump out of windows and make runs on the banks during the Great Depression. They can "live the good life" and spend wildly and take cash returns to cover their expenses - but when a company goes belly up - they have nothing. Everybody loses - investors, the companies, the employees - not only any investment they made in their employer but their jobs as well, everybody loses.

Anybody can invest in the Stock Market. You don't have to be wealthy. Find a good stock and buy one share at a time. Buy another share each week or month if that's what you can afford to do. Hell, for awhile I was buying $10 stocks from a company that I purchased clothing from. They made great clothes - why not invest?

It depends on how you define wealth. One theory of wealth is that the word is not a measure of money but time. Your wealth is how many months you could go without working and maintain your standard of living, to some.

agreed. Personally I define wealth not in terms of money in the end, but more so at the beginning. In the beginning my goal is to make enough money so I can put it aside and realize its multiplied-generated wealth (see below) in terms of living standard when I stop working.
Thats a form of wealth yes, but wealth I may never use as money. Assets that spin off money that don't consume their worth, or do so over a long period of time, i.e. dividends, annuities, whole life supplemental payouts etc.

In my terms; after working life wealth is the ability to weather a real catastrophe, a huge medical issue that I have to foot on my own , then there's the house gets leveled and I don't have earthquake insurance. The rest is for the money spun off is for basic sustenance, travel, play etc.

You're right. Some of the wealthy don't have any realized income. They have assetts in stocks, which yes, is a risk. But you've tocuhed on the basic concept of wealth accumulation: get money to work for you. Don't work for money. Stocks aren't teh only investment that yield returns on investment. There are other vehicles with far less risk. Problem is you have to be rich to take advantage of a lot of them. I don't mean have the money. I mean legally there are certain investmenst that are only allowed to people with x amount of dollars. But there are other things as well like bonds, real estate. Own assets. Just make sure you know what an asset is. An asset is NOT anything you own of value. Your home is not an asset, not even after you've paid your mortgage. An asset is anything that generates income on it's own. Rental property, stocks bonds, etc.

 

[Bern80]

If it's worth doing at all, it is worth doing right! It doesn't take any real extra effort! Seriously.

It's a mindset, s0n.

I agree. It matters when it matters and in this particular forum, it doesn't matter.

You don't understand the concept.

Yes. Actually I do.

What is not understandable is you. A forum is an exchange of ideas. A place where WHAT is said is the focus, rather than HOW it is said. And yet you can only focus on the HOW. The only reason I can gather that you decided to focus on me here is a history of disagreement on other topics. There isn't any other logical premise where someone would come to an exchange of ideas to focus on how something was said rather than what was said with someone whom he agrees with in principle rather than those he does not.

I guess what I'm saying is your feigned attempt at sage advice is just that; fake. You used it as an excuse to be disagreeable with someone you have a low opinion of because you had nothing more intelligent to say.

 

[loosecannon]

Which, like it or not, is the same thing as saying that the amount of effort you put forth in attempting to attain wealth is mostly irrelevant in whether or not wealth will actually be attained.

your words not mine. I said something other.

Words have meaning loose. The exact same idea can be expressed more than one way. The simple fact is you believe the original statement you made:

"What I am saying is that 90% of what determines your outcome in life has nothing at all to do with your choices, efforts, ideas."

But you don't believe the very same idea stated a different way: That effort and choices are mostly irreleveant in terms of attaining wealth. Wealth is an outcome loose. And you stated choices and effort play little role in outcomes.

words do have meanings. Paraphrasing them to distort that meaning is not the same as addressing what was actually said.

Your words like "mostly irrelevant", and "might as well sit on their ass" violated the meanings I was committing myself to in my posts.

And if you traced back the conversation you will discover that the words I am choosing are posted to support my thesis that people are whining about that which they never actually provided for themselves in the first place.

And of course to illustrate that the difference between the efforts of those that succeed and those who do not are only a small part of what actually creates their success. IOW the wealthy have weak title to profoundly disparate wealth.

If any of that confuses you, or if you feel like you must scramble it before you address it why bother to maintain the pretense of a "discussion"?

 

[Bern80]

words do have meanings. Paraphrasing them to distort that meaning is not the same as addressing what was actually said.

Your words like "mostly irrelevant", and "might as well sit on their ass" violated the meanings I was committing myself to in my posts.

I would say when someone says effort and choices play only a 10% role in outcomes, that renders choice and effort 'mostly irrelevant'.

And if you traced back the conversation you will discover that the words I am choosing are posted to support my thesis that people are whining about that which they never actually provided for themselves in the first place.

And of course to illustrate that the difference between the efforts of those that succeed and those who do not are only a small part of what actually creates their success. IOW the wealthy have weak title to profoundly disparate wealth.

If any of that confuses you, or if you feel like you must scramble it before you address it why bother to maintain the pretense of a "discussion"?

I have distorted nothing you said. The same thing simply got thrown back at you in a way that now sounded ludicrous......TO YOU. That caused you to make a knee jerk response claiming you didn't say that. Well the fact is you DID say that. Maybe it's you that needs to examine what you said.

If, "What I am saying is that 90% of what determines your outcome in life has nothing at all to do with your choices, efforts, ideas." is not what you really mean, now that you understand what it really means when you say that, feel free to say what you do mean.