Will GOP Blow Its Current Advantage In January?

[Redfish]

How we got Obamacare to work

The GOP could "press their advantage" and start working with the ACA instead of against it...then they could swoop in and say they "fixed Obamacare" and be the heroes.

They could, but the fix would require scrapping 90% of it. The good parts of it could be handled in a 2 page bill. The things that are needed but not in it could be handled in two more pages.

Good things in ACA
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. no lifetime maximum payments

Things that need to be added
1. tort reform, limits on malpractice awards
2. interstate competition between insurance companies
3. reduction in the length of drug patents
4. for illegals---life saving care only, then deportation



there is no reason why a real estate tax should be in a healthcare bill
there is no reason why a healthcare bill should be 2000 pages

If you force insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions and have no individual mandate or some mechanism to get healthy people to sign up, you wind up with an insurance death spiral where too many sick people sign up, drive premiums up, which drives healthy people away from buying insurance, which means more sick people, which means even higher premiums, etc etc etc.

Also I like the part about 18-26 year old on parents insurance...usually college kids can't afford their own insurance anyway, I know I couldn't have if I wanted to.

what you described is exactly what is happening under ACA. the healthy young people are not signing up, the ones signing up are the old, the sick, and those who want a free ride under medicaid.

ACA DOES force insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions. We are already paying for them in our premiums and employer funded plans.

BTW, no one was being denied medical treatment before ACA. There was no crisis in healthcare that mandating screwing up the total system.

Unless you are getting an advance degree in medicine, law, or some other Phd field, you should not still be in school at 26. If you can afford medical or law school, then you don't need help with insurance.

 

[Redfish]

[

the employer mandate is not yet in effect. That will hit you next year. If you employer decides to pay the penalty rather than providing you with a policy, then you will be forced onto one of the exchanges and will be looking at a much larger premium, higher deductibles, and possible loss of doctors who are familiar with you and your wife's conditions.

Welcome to the world of obamacare.

Eeeeekkkkk.... employers that were offering you perfectly good plans that totally complied will now throw you off, because they know that's the way to retain quality employeesss....EEEEEEEKKKKKK!!!!!


Do you idiots even hear yourselves half the time?

your hillary-like screech is noted.

thats not what I said, employers will find it cheaper to pay the penalty than to provide you with a policy. You will be forced into the exchanges. If you choose to quit your job due to this, thats your option.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"what you described is exactly what is happening under ACA. the healthy young people are not signing up, the ones signing up are the old, the sick, and those who want a free ride under medicaid."

Those who complain about "free rides" are the ones who grew up in America, attended and were served by all the public functions of America, and then want to deny the same to others.

The overwhelming majority of Medicaid patients are children.

And the elderly and the sick would be the first to sign up, wouldn't they? It will ease out, mate. Just chill.

 

[Redfish]

"what you described is exactly what is happening under ACA. the healthy young people are not signing up, the ones signing up are the old, the sick, and those who want a free ride under medicaid."

Those who complain about "free rides" are the ones who grew up in America, attended and were served by all the public functions of America, and then want to deny the same to others.

The overwhelming majority of Medicaid patients are children.

And the elderly and the sick would be the first to sign up, wouldn't they? It will ease out, mate. Just chill.

Did I say that I was opposed to the medicaid program? No, medicaid does good things for many people.

Why would a healthy young person sign up to pay a monthly premium of $400-500 when he/she could just pay the $95 penalty? The whole ACA thing is a ponzi scheme that will fail before it even gets going.

I really wish that the dems in congress had had the courage to have an open bi-partisan debate on this before ramming a terrible law up our collective butts on a strictly partisan basis.

But, elections have consequences, and we are suffering from the consequences of 08 and 12 right now.

 

[Freewill]

The government shutdown just a month and a half ago significantly damaged the GOP in the polls. The party hit new lows.

But then Obama's "you can keep your plan, period" blew up in his face, and now Obama is hitting new lows in the polls, and the shutdown is all but forgotten.

However, there are two things to remember. First, Obama is not running for re-election. Therefore, taking hits in the polls do more damage to the GOP than Obama.

Second, the Continuing Resolution (CR) which ended the shutdown ends on January 15, less than two months from now. And we will hit the debt ceiling again on February 7.

If the government shuts down again, the American people will begin to acquire a Pavlovian response every time they think of a Republican. "These assholes keep shutting down the goddam government!"

So forget about all the chest thumping about the mid terms which are a political eternity away. What are your predictions for Shutdown Showdown II: This Time We REALLY Mean It?

It depends, is Obama leaving office?

The un-favorable you see in the Republican party is primary their own members not being happy. Too much of the leadership trying to be democrats for some unknown reason. Democrats on the other hand worship party over just about anything else so naturally they are going to think favorably of themselves.

 

[Nyvin]

They could, but the fix would require scrapping 90% of it. The good parts of it could be handled in a 2 page bill. The things that are needed but not in it could be handled in two more pages.

Good things in ACA
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. no lifetime maximum payments

Things that need to be added
1. tort reform, limits on malpractice awards
2. interstate competition between insurance companies
3. reduction in the length of drug patents
4. for illegals---life saving care only, then deportation



there is no reason why a real estate tax should be in a healthcare bill
there is no reason why a healthcare bill should be 2000 pages

If you force insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions and have no individual mandate or some mechanism to get healthy people to sign up, you wind up with an insurance death spiral where too many sick people sign up, drive premiums up, which drives healthy people away from buying insurance, which means more sick people, which means even higher premiums, etc etc etc.

Also I like the part about 18-26 year old on parents insurance...usually college kids can't afford their own insurance anyway, I know I couldn't have if I wanted to.

what you described is exactly what is happening under ACA. the healthy young people are not signing up, the ones signing up are the old, the sick, and those who want a free ride under medicaid.

ACA DOES force insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions. We are already paying for them in our premiums and employer funded plans.

BTW, no one was being denied medical treatment before ACA. There was no crisis in healthcare that mandating screwing up the total system.

Unless you are getting an advance degree in medicine, law, or some other Phd field, you should not still be in school at 26. If you can afford medical or law school, then you don't need help with insurance.

Right now what we're seeing is healthy young people largely not bothering to sign up because they don't need to yet. The sick and ill are the more desperate and thus will hurry and work through the process to get a plan quicker. I totally predict a spike of younger, healthier people sometime in January and February. It happened in Massachusetts, it'll happen with healthcare.gov.

26 is the cut off age, that is, once you "turn" 26 you no longer qualify under your parents plan...so really it's like 18-25. 25 is certainly still young, maybe "getting" to independence but not yet there. I think it's a totally reasonable age.

People got turned down for coverage all the time, watch "Sicko" from Michael Moore...it won an award, great film.

 

[JoeB131]

[

the employer mandate is not yet in effect. That will hit you next year. If you employer decides to pay the penalty rather than providing you with a policy, then you will be forced onto one of the exchanges and will be looking at a much larger premium, higher deductibles, and possible loss of doctors who are familiar with you and your wife's conditions.

Welcome to the world of obamacare.

Eeeeekkkkk.... employers that were offering you perfectly good plans that totally complied will now throw you off, because they know that's the way to retain quality employeesss....EEEEEEEKKKKKK!!!!!


Do you idiots even hear yourselves half the time?

your hillary-like screech is noted.

thats not what I said, employers will find it cheaper to pay the penalty than to provide you with a policy. You will be forced into the exchanges. If you choose to quit your job due to this, thats your option.

Guy, it's cheaper for my employer to not provide me with a policy now when they don't have to pay a penalty, dumbass.

So why would they offer me benefits. Hmmmm.... You got to really think about this one for a minute.

Oh, yeah, because that's the only way they'd attract quality people.

God, you Teabaggers are dumb as dogs!

 

[Rebelitarian]

The government shutdown just a month and a half ago significantly damaged the GOP in the polls. The party hit new lows.

But then Obama's "you can keep your plan, period" blew up in his face, and now Obama is hitting new lows in the polls, and the shutdown is all but forgotten.

However, there are two things to remember. First, Obama is not running for re-election. Therefore, taking hits in the polls do more damage to the GOP than Obama.

Second, the Continuing Resolution (CR) which ended the shutdown ends on January 15, less than two months from now. And we will hit the debt ceiling again on February 7.

If the government shuts down again, the American people will begin to acquire a Pavlovian response every time they think of a Republican. "These assholes keep shutting down the goddam government!"

So forget about all the chest thumping about the mid terms which are a political eternity away. What are your predictions for Shutdown Showdown II: This Time We REALLY Mean It?

How about Americans wake up to the Constitution Party and fire their old Bilderberg puppet representative.

Constitution Party > Home The Official Website

Constitution Party Promotional Video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_SobkISNrY]Constitution Party Promotional Video - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Amelia]

What are you even talking about. The GOP will blow any advantage they have by doing something stupid like threatening to shut down the government or default on our debts. Mitch McLipless might not want to, but Rafael is running the crazy show these days...

If you did not comprehend what I said it's useless to discuss it. When people realize that they have been lied too and it effects them where they feel it the most nothing will change their minds. Bush senior gives you a hint. "read my lips"
Why else would obama want obamacare to start after the 2012 election?

President Obama's "lie" isn't anywhere on the scale of Bush Daddy's "Read my Lips" and it sure as hell doesn't affect as many people as Bush Daddy's did.

The .gov website will be running smoothly soon and millions of Americans will get better or more affordable healthcare than they had before. Millions more will get healthcare insurance for the first time in their lives. The "lie" the President told will be forgotten, especially since he so brilliantly turned it back on the insurance companies (who are really to blame).

Obama's lie -- his multiple and ongoing lies -- are way bigger than "Read my lips", and affect every American. Every American is affected by a president and majority party who feel they are justified in passing sweeping legislation with the help of lies and doubling down on the lies until it is too late for citizens to do anything about it electorally.

That the legislation is so profoundly bad adds insult to injury. "The ends justify the means" is a horrible way to govern no matter what. And these ends are going to do so much more damage and be so expensive to fix before we see the light at the end of the tunnel.

That's way worse than someone making a campaign promise about taxes and then deciding he has to backtrack on the promise. And Bush didn't have the media to help cover for him and save him from consequences the way Obama did. If Bush had the media to spin how wonderful and responsible he was to go back on his tax pledge, Clinton might not have happened. Bush would have been there to accept the credit for the improving economy and Bush would have responded better when the bin Laden threat appeared.

Obama's dishonesty affects every American for the foreseeable future. Obama has damaged the democratic core of America.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Obama's lie -- his multiple and ongoing lies -- are way bigger than "Read my lips", and affect every American. Every American is affected by a president and majority party who feel they are justified in passing sweeping legislation with the help of lies and doubling down on the lies until it is too late for citizens to do anything about it electorally.

That the legislation is so profoundly bad adds insult to injury. "The ends justify the means" is a horrible way to govern no matter what. And these ends are going to do so much more damage and be so expensive to fix before we see the light at the end of the tunnel.

That's way worse than someone making a campaign promise about taxes and then deciding he has to backtrack on the promise. And Bush didn't have the media to help cover for him and save him from consequences the way Obama did. If Bush had the media to spin how wonderful and responsible he was to go back on his tax pledge, Clinton might not have happened. Bush would have been there to accept the credit for the improving economy and Bush would have responded better when the bin Laden threat appeared.

Obama's dishonesty affects every American for the foreseeable future. Obama has damaged the democratic core of America.

Can we REALLY get a sense of perspective here?

No American who is out there right now, with their health plans being revised again and again every year, really took it literally that somehow, Obama was locking in their current plan.

Bush's "read my lips" was a problem because his conservative base was unwilling to be reasonable. Clearly, the ground HAD shifted after the S&L collapse, and tax increases were called for. It was conservatives who wanted his hide for that, not liberals.

 

[hunarcy]

How we got Obamacare to work

The GOP could "press their advantage" and start working with the ACA instead of against it...then they could swoop in and say they "fixed Obamacare" and be the heroes.

They could, but the fix would require scrapping 90% of it. The good parts of it could be handled in a 2 page bill. The things that are needed but not in it could be handled in two more pages.

Good things in ACA
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. no lifetime maximum payments

Things that need to be added
1. tort reform, limits on malpractice awards
2. interstate competition between insurance companies
3. reduction in the length of drug patents
4. for illegals---life saving care only, then deportation



there is no reason why a real estate tax should be in a healthcare bill
there is no reason why a healthcare bill should be 2000 pages

If you force insurance companies to take people with pre-existing conditions and have no individual mandate or some mechanism to get healthy people to sign up, you wind up with an insurance death spiral where too many sick people sign up, drive premiums up, which drives healthy people away from buying insurance, which means more sick people, which means even higher premiums, etc etc etc.

Also I like the part about 18-26 year old on parents insurance...usually college kids can't afford their own insurance anyway, I know I couldn't have if I wanted to.

The Universities that I attended had a health clinic for their students. I didn't need my parents health insurance as an undergraduate, nor my own insurance as a graduate student while on campus.

 

[Iustitia]

The Republicans throw away every chance they get.

 

[Seawytch]

How we got Obamacare to work

The GOP could "press their advantage" and start working with the ACA instead of against it...then they could swoop in and say they "fixed Obamacare" and be the heroes.

They could, but the fix would require scrapping 90% of it. The good parts of it could be handled in a 2 page bill. The things that are needed but not in it could be handled in two more pages.

Good things in ACA
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. no lifetime maximum payments

Things that need to be added
1. tort reform, limits on malpractice awards

Where has Tort Reform been enacted that it lowered healthcare costs? I'll give you a hint...nowhere. Not one state with strict Tort Reform laws (i.e. Texas or Ohio) has seen a decrease in healthcare costs as a result.

Why is it that ya'll are just peachy with regulating what people can get in damages but don't want to regulate the fucking insurance companies in any way shape or form?

2. interstate competition between insurance companies

Tell me, have you researched this at all or are you just parroting some tic tac brain like Hannity? For one thing, the ACA does allow for the sale of policies across state lines, but here are some reasons it doesn't happen...

Meme-busting: Selling insurance across state lines will lower costs

3. reduction in the length of drug patents

Sounds great. Do you believe for a second that such a bill would pass Congress with the amount of money pharmaceutical companies hand out to them? Even better would be the ability to negotiate drug prices like other countries (and our own VA) have. Same money stopping that from happening.

there is no reason why a real estate tax should be in a healthcare bill

A 3.8% sales tax on real estate in the health care law? This chain email's LIE just won't die

there is no reason why a healthcare bill should be 2000 pages

You're right when it could have simply been a single page that says "Medicare for All".

 

[ScienceRocks]

IF they close our government down again = I'll vote 100% against all the anti-science, infrastructure and education fucks in 2014!

 

[Freewill]

I do not see on this chart where tort reform would make a lick of difference. It may make a difference in the quantity of doctors but the quantity may give way to the quality.

 

[Freewill]

Another chart which shows administrative costs:
U.S. Health Care Spending: Where Is the Waste? | Physicians for a National Health Program

 

[Redfish]

How we got Obamacare to work

The GOP could "press their advantage" and start working with the ACA instead of against it...then they could swoop in and say they "fixed Obamacare" and be the heroes.

They could, but the fix would require scrapping 90% of it. The good parts of it could be handled in a 2 page bill. The things that are needed but not in it could be handled in two more pages.

Good things in ACA
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. no lifetime maximum payments

Things that need to be added
1. tort reform, limits on malpractice awards

Where has Tort Reform been enacted that it lowered healthcare costs? I'll give you a hint...nowhere. Not one state with strict Tort Reform laws (i.e. Texas or Ohio) has seen a decrease in healthcare costs as a result.

Why is it that ya'll are just peachy with regulating what people can get in damages but don't want to regulate the fucking insurance companies in any way shape or form?



Tell me, have you researched this at all or are you just parroting some tic tac brain like Hannity? For one thing, the ACA does allow for the sale of policies across state lines, but here are some reasons it doesn't happen...

Meme-busting: Selling insurance across state lines will lower costs



Sounds great. Do you believe for a second that such a bill would pass Congress with the amount of money pharmaceutical companies hand out to them? Even better would be the ability to negotiate drug prices like other countries (and our own VA) have. Same money stopping that from happening.

there is no reason why a real estate tax should be in a healthcare bill

A 3.8% sales tax on real estate in the health care law? This chain email's LIE just won't die

there is no reason why a healthcare bill should be 2000 pages

You're right when it could have simply been a single page that says "Medicare for All".

tort reform----if malpractice awards were limited and the loser had to pay, then malpractice insurance rates would go down, Doctors are leaving medicine rather than pay 200K/year for malpractice insurance

Insurance companies are the most regulated companies in the country. Each state has regulations as well as the federal govt. the insurance industry is not a high profit industry (7-8% generally).

interstate competition---the more competition the lower the price and the better the product. It works, its called supply and demand

Big pharma is raping us on drug prices. reducing patent lengths would get generics into the market sooner.

people pay for medicare out of every paycheck. What % would be needed as a deduction for total "medicare for all" ? Socialized single payer govt controlled medicine is a terrible idea.

 

[Redfish]

I do not see on this chart where tort reform would make a lick of difference. It may make a difference in the quantity of doctors but the quantity may give way to the quality.

where are malpractice insurance premiums and payouts in your pie chart?

 

[JakeStarkey]

"what you described is exactly what is happening under ACA. the healthy young people are not signing up, the ones signing up are the old, the sick, and those who want a free ride under medicaid."

Those who complain about "free rides" are the ones who grew up in America, attended and were served by all the public functions of America, and then want to deny the same to others.

The overwhelming majority of Medicaid patients are children.

And the elderly and the sick would be the first to sign up, wouldn't they? It will ease out, mate. Just chill.

Why would a healthy young person sign up to pay a monthly premium of $400-500 when he/she could just pay the $95 penalty? The whole ACA thing is a ponzi scheme that will fail before it even gets going. . . . and we are suffering from the consequences of 08 and 12 right now.

Why in heavens should folks privatize their profit and socialize the risk by not paying for their insurance? Of course they should, and of course they will.

It is that type of thinking that caused us to lose big in 2008 and 2012 and led to the rise of the anti-American TeaPs.

As the greater number of young Americans, not covered by employer plans, joins ACA, the premiums will drop off, as you well know.

 

[Redfish]

"what you described is exactly what is happening under ACA. the healthy young people are not signing up, the ones signing up are the old, the sick, and those who want a free ride under medicaid."

Those who complain about "free rides" are the ones who grew up in America, attended and were served by all the public functions of America, and then want to deny the same to others.

The overwhelming majority of Medicaid patients are children.

And the elderly and the sick would be the first to sign up, wouldn't they? It will ease out, mate. Just chill.

Why would a healthy young person sign up to pay a monthly premium of $400-500 when he/she could just pay the $95 penalty? The whole ACA thing is a ponzi scheme that will fail before it even gets going. . . . and we are suffering from the consequences of 08 and 12 right now.

Why in heavens should folks privatize their profit and socialize the risk by not paying for their insurance? Of course they should, and of course they will.

It is that type of thinking that caused us to lose big in 2008 and 2012 and led to the rise of the anti-American TeaPs.

As the greater number of young Americans, not covered by employer plans, joins ACA, the premiums will drop off, as you well know.

try to engage your brain, jake. for just a few minutes.

lets say you are a single 28 year old male, you have a job making 50K. Ok so far? your employer is a small business and does not offer insurance. You have a choice of paying 400/month--4800/year to buy insurance or a $95 penalty when you file your taxes. got it?

also, if you get sick you can go buy a policy---remember pre-existing conditions do not keep you from buying a policy.

Now, whould you pay $4800/year or $95/year? you have 15 seconds to decide.