Wind farms banned as environmentalists grumble

[GLASNOST]

I would have to ask

would anyone want to live near a nuclear plant vs wind mills

now it is true that nuclear power is well managed in most countries and they safely store waste and about 3 percent of waste is high level waste that is buried deep in the ground.

Nuclear power is not renewable

Wind power is renewable

wind power is depended on the wind and when it will stop blowing but its a matter of when will it blow again and storage capacity.

The bird issues is nonsense as I said before man does a lot of other things that kill birds but nobody complains about it. Are people going to stop flying, driving their cars, or hunting.

The noise level is dependent on how close you live to the windmill but how close do you want to live near a nuclear power plant

Sure you can say their safe but no think you ma' am for me

A windmill or solar panels can be built for single homes and supply that home with all the power it needs in general terms. After initial installation cost and repairs, will it save people money. It sounds reasonable.

Hypothetically speaking Nuclear power plants can be a target in war and terrorist attacks. It is a possibility. What if the 9/11 terrorist had targeted a nuclear facility rather than the pentagon or a large building

One well placed bomb will cause more damaged at a nuclear facility than one placed near a wind tower or Sun farm. The US does take this threat seriously

The NRC carries out "Force on Force" exercises at all nuclear power plant sites at least once every three years.

A Nuclear Energy Plant is like tethering a rampant and rabid dog on a length of string in the middle of a large city.

 

[flacaltenn]

Tippecanoe County commissioners – arguing that a growing county couldn’t afford to hamstring other kinds of development with long-term leases tying up tens of thousands of acres around Lafayette and West Lafayette – voted 3-0 for a zoning ordinance that prohibits wind turbines taller 140 feet.
looks like they didn't banned them all and it was not an environmental issues but an economic one.
Still if your a land owner with vacant land and windmills is a way to get royalties. Yes some land owners do not want them because of the birds that are dying and the noise and they look ugly

yet Oil rigs look ugly and you do not want to know what it does to the land, birds die by cars, airplanes, and hunting season (the life of bird is certainly dangerous) and the noise issue well unless you live right next to one.
Farmers they will sell land for house development and when the new owners complain about the farming activity noise, then that farmer is kicking himself in the butt for selling.
Eventually he will put up a sign that says that this is a farming community and this is what we do. So don't complain about noise levels as it won't change anything.

I have to ask myself, if I were a farmer, what I would prefer? Of course, I'd rather see nothing but 360° horizon ... but if I were compelled or offered compensation .... would I want an oil rig, a mining shaft, a nuclear funnel, or a wind turbine on my land? I can answer that question already.

I'd personally take the oil rig.. It just cranks along nice and peacefully, maybe squeaks a bit, has a very small footprint, and there's no maintenance access that used weekly or monthly to my land to maintain 3 or 5 of those GINORMOUS 25 story high wind towers.. .

And WTF is a nuclear funnel?. Is that some kind of Carnival treat? What farmer leases his land for a nuke plant? Don't think you're completely thinking straight on the technology details here...

 

[flacaltenn]

Two important videos for eco-friendly small turbine technology:

That's great for small scale power stations like recharging stations for mobile or cell towers. But to scale in up 1000 times energy output -- it's just gonna be too heavy and not have enough torque to turn generators of the required size...

Even for mobile charging stations, you're gonna need 3 or 6 days of battery backup and scale it up enough to provide customer charging and battery charging..

 

[flacaltenn]

I would have to ask

would anyone want to live near a nuclear plant vs wind mills

now it is true that nuclear power is well managed in most countries and they safely store waste and about 3 percent of waste is high level waste that is buried deep in the ground.

Nuclear power is not renewable

Wind power is renewable

wind power is depended on the wind and when it will stop blowing but its a matter of when will it blow again and storage capacity.

The bird issues is nonsense as I said before man does a lot of other things that kill birds but nobody complains about it. Are people going to stop flying, driving their cars, or hunting.

The noise level is dependent on how close you live to the windmill but how close do you want to live near a nuclear power plant

Sure you can say their safe but no think you ma' am for me

A windmill or solar panels can be built for single homes and supply that home with all the power it needs in general terms. After initial installation cost and repairs, will it save people money. It sounds reasonable.

Hypothetically speaking Nuclear power plants can be a target in war and terrorist attacks. It is a possibility. What if the 9/11 terrorist had targeted a nuclear facility rather than the pentagon or a large building

One well placed bomb will cause more damaged at a nuclear facility than one placed near a wind tower or Sun farm. The US does take this threat seriously

The NRC carries out "Force on Force" exercises at all nuclear power plant sites at least once every three years.

A Nuclear Energy Plant is like tethering a rampant and rabid dog on a length of string in the middle of a large city.

How mellodramatic...

 

[flacaltenn]

It's a very mature technology.. Been around for literally ages. Don't expect much more than them getting bigger and noisier.. Problem is -- the wind can blow for 20 minutes and take 8 hours off. Or all of Tuesday and Wednesday.. They produce only 1/3 of their rated maximum power. And the maintenance for a 20 turbine wind farm is astronomical compared to hydro or gas turbines or other turbine technologies..

It sucks... and only true demented morons believe it's any kind of ON GRID alternative.... Like the Insane Clown Posse of wannabee Presidents and AOC....

No technology gets "bigger and noisier".

WTF you talking about????

They HAD to do that.. Because the maintenance on the smaller ones were KILLING THEM.. You drive by older farms on a good wind day and more than half of the old turbines are locked in place...

So they DO get MONSTRUOUSLY large... You know how high 128Meters is??? And they use up the same amount of land per MWatt because they have to be spaced farther apart.. And NOISE and image shadowing IS an issue..

Many farmers who leased their land to cash in have dissolved the leases from the noise.. And on the bigger ones, if the sun goes behind the blades and the light enters the home, it is literally torture...

You very obviously do not understand the fundamentals of technological advancement and its' ambition to discover/create more efficient and less obtrusive results. Your heart is not in this subject I can see.

Oh hell no.. I just spent 40+ years in science and engineering both academically and applied... And I know how hard it is to push technologically mature products BEYOND their limits...

Whatcha gonna do when the wind takes 2 or 4 days off in a week?? You think "heart" has anything to do with that?????

You speak of technological LIMITS? That's a good one! Has it never occurred to you that wind turbine configuration is in its' infancy ..... that the wind turbine tower is the horse-drawn carriage of our time? "LIMITS" you say!

You want to go to 100 stories high?? WTF you expecting out of it Bullwinkle? You could litter the landscape with millions of these totally unreliable boondoogles and still NOT get any power out of them about 3 days a week... THERE"S your fucking "technology issue".....

 

[flacaltenn]

WTF you talking about????

They HAD to do that.. Because the maintenance on the smaller ones were KILLING THEM.. You drive by older farms on a good wind day and more than half of the old turbines are locked in place...

So they DO get MONSTRUOUSLY large... You know how high 128Meters is??? And they use up the same amount of land per MWatt because they have to be spaced farther apart.. And NOISE and image shadowing IS an issue..

Many farmers who leased their land to cash in have dissolved the leases from the noise.. And on the bigger ones, if the sun goes behind the blades and the light enters the home, it is literally torture...

You very obviously do not understand the fundamentals of technological advancement and its' ambition to discover/create more efficient and less obtrusive results. Your heart is not in this subject I can see.

Oh hell no.. I just spent 40+ years in science and engineering both academically and applied... And I know how hard it is to push technologically mature products BEYOND their limits...

Whatcha gonna do when the wind takes 2 or 4 days off in a week?? You think "heart" has anything to do with that?????

When there is wind, you harness the power
When there is sun, you do the same

What is so hard about that?

All cities that wan this will convert every square inch of parkland and the roofs of their high rises, homes, apartments, businesses and public spaces to windmill and solar panel devices.

Personally I think we should use every available roof space that gets sufficient sun for solar panels as it is a better option to using acres and acres of undeveloped land.

That said I still do not believe wind and solar combined will meet the electric power needs of a fossil fuel free economy

Rooftops are NOT ideal.. Because you lose about 2 or 3 hours a day minimum if the panels are not gimballed and tracking the sun.. They are fairly "narrow acceptance angle".. There's also ROOF MAINTENANCE to consider and owner cost of installation, financing and insurance that really should NOT be govt subsidized.. Roof maintenance is a biggy.. A roof can last 15 or 18 years. Never know when a problem is gonna occur.. In places where the storms are severe and snow loading is a problem, your insurance will be sky high...

 

[flacaltenn]

Bald Eagles get hit by cars
They are scavengers by nature and eat carcasses on the sides of roads

Cats, raccoons and people get hit by cars. So what?
You don't have a point, do you.

Actually, the point is that

<sob>. We can’t have windmills because they kill Bald Eagles
Is a bunch of shit
Why aren’t conservatives complaining about pigeons

Whatever the acreage of the wind farm is -- add a 5 or 10 mile radius around it and expect that you've denied habitat to ALL raptors and owls and bats.. It will be a "Dead Zone" for their species to use in a year or two.,..

Can you grow up just enough here to be CONSISTENT on that "Eco Warrior" badge you got from the DNC and take this seriously? Or do actual conservationists like me just laugh at you and ignore the childishness?

 

[flacaltenn]

Hey rightwinger -- learn a bit...

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...amont_pass/pdfs/2-17-05-press-release-rrw.pdf


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE February 17, 2005
Oakland, CA – Judge Ronald Sabraw of the Alameda County Superior Court today ruled that the
Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) and its co-plaintiff Peter Galvin can go forward with their
lawsuit against wind power companies responsible for killing tens of thousands of eagles, hawks,
falcons, owls and other protected birds with wind power turbines in the Altamont Pass Wind Resource
Area (Altamont) in the San Francisco Bay Area of California. Judge Sabraw ruled that, although the
enactment of Proposition 64 in November 2004 applied retroactively to bar CBD and Mr. Galvin from
bringing suit on behalf of the general public, CBD and Mr. Galvin could continue to pursue their
claims against the wind power companies for destroying wildlife because they, like all other
Californians, have a property interest in the wildlife the wind power companies are destroying. The
Judge also invited Attorney General Bill Lockyer or the Alameda County District Attorney to join the
lawsuit to pursue these claims on behalf of the general public as well.
The lawsuit was filed in state court on November 1, 2004, seeking remedies for the killing of tens of
thousands of raptors in flagrant criminal violation of state and federal wildlife protection laws. Wind
turbines at Altamont have killed an estimated 880 to 1,330 golden eagles, hawks, owls and other
protected raptors each year for the past 20 years, in violation of numerous California Fish and Game
Code provisions as well as the federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act and the Bald Eagle and Golden Eagle
Protection Act.


HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost

CONVERSE COUNTY, Wyo. (AP) — It happens about once a month here, on the barren foothills of one of America's green-energy boomtowns: A soaring golden eagle slams into a wind farm's spinning turbine and falls, mangled and lifeless, to the ground.

Killing these iconic birds is not just an irreplaceable loss for a vulnerable species. It's also a federal crime, a charge that the Obama administration has used to prosecute oil companies when birds drown in their waste pits, and power companies when birds are electrocuted by their power lines.

But the administration has never fined or prosecuted a wind-energy company, even those that flout the law repeatedly. Instead, the government is shielding the industry from liability and helping keep the scope of the deaths secret.

More than 573,000 birds are killed by the country's wind farms each year, including 83,000 hunting birds such as hawks, falcons and eagles, according to an estimate published in March in the peer-reviewed Wildlife Society Bulletin.


Getting precise figures is impossible because many companies aren't required to disclose how many birds they kill. And when they do, experts say, the data can be unreliable.

When companies voluntarily report deaths, the Obama administration in many cases refuses to make the information public, saying it belongs to the energy companies or that revealing it would expose trade secrets or implicate ongoing enforcement investigations.

Nearly all the birds being killed are protected under federal environmental laws, which prosecutors have used to generate tens of millions of dollars in fines and settlements from businesses, including oil and gas companies, over the past five years.

"We are all responsible for protecting our wildlife, even the largest of corporations," Colorado U.S. Attorney David M. Gaouette said in 2009 when announcing Exxon Mobil had pleaded guilty and would pay $600,000 for killing 85 birds in five states, including Wyoming.

 

[Polishprince]

Windmills cause cancer
They are more dangerous than Mexicans

The Mexican people are a tremendous people.

The real problem is with CERTAIN PEOPLE from Mexico like this Zarate hombre who whacked Kate Steinle.

Mexico is supposed to be sending us their very best, people who want to come to America as Illegals to do work we refuse to do. And do it at a low price. I refuse to believe that someone like Zarate is one of their best.

 

[flacaltenn]

WTF you talking about????

They HAD to do that.. Because the maintenance on the smaller ones were KILLING THEM.. You drive by older farms on a good wind day and more than half of the old turbines are locked in place...

So they DO get MONSTRUOUSLY large... You know how high 128Meters is??? And they use up the same amount of land per MWatt because they have to be spaced farther apart.. And NOISE and image shadowing IS an issue..

Many farmers who leased their land to cash in have dissolved the leases from the noise.. And on the bigger ones, if the sun goes behind the blades and the light enters the home, it is literally torture...

You very obviously do not understand the fundamentals of technological advancement and its' ambition to discover/create more efficient and less obtrusive results. Your heart is not in this subject I can see.

Oh hell no.. I just spent 40+ years in science and engineering both academically and applied... And I know how hard it is to push technologically mature products BEYOND their limits...

Whatcha gonna do when the wind takes 2 or 4 days off in a week?? You think "heart" has anything to do with that?????

When there is wind, you harness the power
When there is sun, you do the same

What is so hard about that?

Sure just don't expect it to be enough to meet all of our growing power needs

Who has ever said all?
10-20 percent is a major contribution

I know you're smarter than that.. But my respect for your honesty is dwindling fast.. WHO?? you ask?

Virtually EVERYONE of the Deranged Insane Clown Posse running for President of your Clan... Every fucking one of them thinks this country can be powered on wind and solar and glitter farts from unicorns...

THat's who.. They are all demented demagogues with not an OUNCE of talent at energy system issues... They will make our grid so unstable the bodies will stack up like a logs at a saw mill in extreme heat and cold...

 

[GLASNOST]

So it's settled:

* The energy source that is the most dangerous for the entire world is Nuclear.

* The energy source that is least efficient is hamsters running on a treadmill

I knew we would come to an agreement eventually.

 

[Roudy]

Leftards pretend to love windmills, but never in their backyard. Ever passed through a wind farm? They are the most hideous, obnoxious, distracting things. Not to mention, it's obvious that they are not supposed to be there, anybody who loves nature and the outdoors, if honest, will agree that these gigantic metallic things do not belong in nature.

 

[GLASNOST]

There is nothing obtrusive about solar panelling.

 

[Blues Man]

REally?

Turbines are about as efficient as they are ever going to be at this point. And as it is now a wind turbine only produces 25% of its labeled capacity and have a lifespan of about 20 years.
It's not good enough to meet ur current needs never mind the greatly increased needs when we move completely off fossil fuels

Oh, stop talking like a child. You remind me of the "9 out of 10 experts" (plucked out of the 100 who won't endorse the product "recommend Professor Snake-Oil's Products". Or the doctors who swear that tobacco and sugar "are non-addictive and healthy!"

What sort of crap is this, " .. about as efficient as they are ever going to be .." ... wait for it, it's worth waiting for .... " ... at this point.

At this point! Technology ALWAYS advances. There is no "point". Wind turbines are the cleanest source of energy that I am aware of and there is no reason why it won't advance unless another CLEAN SOURCE is developed. Hydro-electric dams, ocean wave energy, and who-knows-what are all being developed as CLEAN SOURCES of energy. They will all continue to develop in conjunction with one another or until one of them becomes so efficient that all others will cease to be worth the effort .... but as all three utilize generators then it is assumed that what is good for one could very likely good for the other.

Nuclear energy is a ticking time bomb and its bi-products (such as plutonium and uranium weapons) are just as dangerous as the source itself. Do you feel feisty enough to give me a list of safety records and how half-life isn't as "long" as I might think it is? Fine, but you are not going to win me over into believing nuclear energy is better for life, the environment, and the planet. CLEAN SOURCES of ENERGY are the future.

We are all just waiting for whistle-blowers to blow the lid off of pro-nuclear propaganda.

Hoping for pie in the sky is childish

We have been using turbines to produce electricity for over a century if they were going to get better they would have.

The most efficient way we can produce electricity is with large turbines and theyt all have the same limitation and that is the rotational speed of the turbine Wind can only turn the turbine at a velocity something less than the actual wind speed this is a physical barrier that gains in efficiency cannot cross.

Wind just doesn't turn the turbine fast enough where as super-heated steam under high pressure can spin very large turbines much faster than the wind can turn a small turbine that and the fact that the wind doesn't blow all the time is why wind only produces 25% of its rated capacity

What an idiot response.

"We have been using turbines to produce electricity for over a century if they were going to get better they would have"

The internal combustion engine was never going to improve either, right?

Why don't you learn how a turbine works?

 

[Blues Man]

I would have to ask

would anyone want to live near a nuclear plant vs wind mills

now it is true that nuclear power is well managed in most countries and they safely store waste and about 3 percent of waste is high level waste that is buried deep in the ground.

Nuclear power is not renewable

Wind power is renewable

wind power is depended on the wind and when it will stop blowing but its a matter of when will it blow again and storage capacity.

The bird issues is nonsense as I said before man does a lot of other things that kill birds but nobody complains about it. Are people going to stop flying, driving their cars, or hunting.

The noise level is dependent on how close you live to the windmill but how close do you want to live near a nuclear power plant

Sure you can say their safe but no think you ma' am for me

A windmill or solar panels can be built for single homes and supply that home with all the power it needs in general terms. After initial installation cost and repairs, will it save people money. It sounds reasonable.

Hypothetically speaking Nuclear power plants can be a target in war and terrorist attacks. It is a possibility. What if the 9/11 terrorist had targeted a nuclear facility rather than the pentagon or a large building

One well placed bomb will cause more damaged at a nuclear facility than one placed near a wind tower or Sun farm. The US does take this threat seriously

The NRC carries out "Force on Force" exercises at all nuclear power plant sites at least once every three years.

Take a minute to learn about Thorium salt reactors.

These reactors are smaller, can be mass produced and shipped by rail, can be buried underground, they need no water for cooling, do not run under high pressure and are self limiting and only have to be refueled every 20 years or so.

They will use all the spent fuel we have sitting around from our obsolete light water reactors

 

[Blues Man]

Two important videos for eco-friendly small turbine technology:

And the very small turbines will still spin at something less than the wind speed.

The most efficient way to produce large quantities of electric power is by spinning very large turbines very fast

 

[Blues Man]

I would have to ask

would anyone want to live near a nuclear plant vs wind mills

now it is true that nuclear power is well managed in most countries and they safely store waste and about 3 percent of waste is high level waste that is buried deep in the ground.

Nuclear power is not renewable

Wind power is renewable

wind power is depended on the wind and when it will stop blowing but its a matter of when will it blow again and storage capacity.

The bird issues is nonsense as I said before man does a lot of other things that kill birds but nobody complains about it. Are people going to stop flying, driving their cars, or hunting.

The noise level is dependent on how close you live to the windmill but how close do you want to live near a nuclear power plant

Sure you can say their safe but no think you ma' am for me

A windmill or solar panels can be built for single homes and supply that home with all the power it needs in general terms. After initial installation cost and repairs, will it save people money. It sounds reasonable.

Hypothetically speaking Nuclear power plants can be a target in war and terrorist attacks. It is a possibility. What if the 9/11 terrorist had targeted a nuclear facility rather than the pentagon or a large building

One well placed bomb will cause more damaged at a nuclear facility than one placed near a wind tower or Sun farm. The US does take this threat seriously

The NRC carries out "Force on Force" exercises at all nuclear power plant sites at least once every three years.

A Nuclear Energy Plant is like tethering a rampant and rabid dog on a length of string in the middle of a large city.

SPare us the tortured metaphors

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Who cares

They will die in global warming anyway

Is this your last word on the issue? You could have said something that stupid long ago and saved the energy it took to
post your worthless garbage. How many lives of magnificent raptors and migrating birds and endangered bats would that have saved?

 

[GLASNOST]

What an idiot response.
"We have been using turbines to produce electricity for over a century if they were going to get better they would have"
The internal combustion engine was never going to improve either, right?

Why don't you learn how a turbine works?

Why don't you realize that technology never stops to rest?

A Nuclear Energy Plant is like tethering a rampant and rabid dog on a length of string in the middle of a large city.

SPare us the tortured metaphors

SPare us the songs of praise for the most deadly source of energy the world has ever known.

 

[GLASNOST]

.....
The most efficient way to produce large quantities of electric power is by spinning very large turbines very fast

And your home needs that much electric power, does it?