Would any of THIS solve the problems with the Bathroom Policy?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Would any of THIS solve the problems with the Bathroom Policy?"

This misses the point – there is no ‘problem’ to be ‘solved.’

The ‘restroom’ nonsense is a political contrivance of the right, a red herring fallacy devised by conservatives for some perceived partisan gain, completely devoid of merit.

 

[Pop23]

"Would any of THIS solve the problems with the Bathroom Policy?"

This misses the point – there is no ‘problem’ to be ‘solved.’

The ‘restroom’ nonsense is a political contrivance of the right, a red herring fallacy devised by conservatives for some perceived partisan gain, completely devoid of merit.

Wrong as always

Our restrooms are separated by Male/Female. Not masculine/feminine

Cities like Houston and Charlotte, with liberal city councils started this.

 

[SwimExpert]

Yeah, where is the donkey gonna pee?

Female donkeys will typically use the men's room, because lifting their tales and spraying really only works in front of a urinal. They'll never be able to aim that into a toilet bowl. Meanwhile, the males' extend-and-drop-puddle method pretty much is impossible with a urinal. This new North Carolina law is forcing the donkeys to urinate outdoors, like they were barn animals.

 

[paulitician]

Walmart's not too concerned about it. It's rakin in $Billions. It's decided not to spring for extra security. Walmarts are actually very dangerous places at certain times of the day.

Like i said, it's a notorious criminal hangout. But as long as millions of folks keep showing up to buy more cheap shitty Chinese-made shite, Walmart's just fine with the current set-up.

Walmart is very dangerous? More of this all in your head thing. With that many stores if they were very dangerous it would be all over the news. The constant stream of people actually makes them very safe. If you want danger, drop by a 7-11 at 3AM when only drunks or criminals are around.

With all your fears and paranoia, you must live in a bunker.

It is in the news. Violence at Walmart is very common. Check out the Internet and you'll find stories everyday about violence in Walmarts all across the country. It's a well-known criminal hangout.

You'd be very wise to stay away from Walmarts at certain times of the day. And for God's sake, don't sit your buttocks on a Walmart toilet. That would be just plain crazy.

I will not be living my life according to your paranoia. Thanks all the same.

And will you hear a Walmart story often enough? With something like 4,000 stores and tens of millions of people who shop there, I would imagine. It's the biggest grocery chain in the country for God's sake.

Try everyday. Violence at Walmart is rampant. It's being reported on. But hey, you wanna shop in a disgusting hellhole, go for it. Enjoy.

I don't enjoy it and with that many stores it will be in the news every day but the chances of you being there are 1 in 4,000 divided by how long you shop there by how often you shop there meaning, you won't likely be there. With 4,000 stores and that many assholes in them, shit will happen so adjust your paranoia appropriately.

I have adjusted, i'll never shop at Walmart again. It represents the absolute worst America has to offer. From treating its workers like shite, to its massive hordes of ignorant mongoloid customers. It's sheer misery. By far the worst shopping experience possible. But hey if stinky misery is your thing, happy shopping i guess.

 

[rightwinger]

Just say you don't care where people pee and get on with your life

 

[Jack4jill]

Walmart is very dangerous? More of this all in your head thing. With that many stores if they were very dangerous it would be all over the news. The constant stream of people actually makes them very safe. If you want danger, drop by a 7-11 at 3AM when only drunks or criminals are around.

With all your fears and paranoia, you must live in a bunker.

It is in the news. Violence at Walmart is very common. Check out the Internet and you'll find stories everyday about violence in Walmarts all across the country. It's a well-known criminal hangout.

You'd be very wise to stay away from Walmarts at certain times of the day. And for God's sake, don't sit your buttocks on a Walmart toilet. That would be just plain crazy.

I will not be living my life according to your paranoia. Thanks all the same.

And will you hear a Walmart story often enough? With something like 4,000 stores and tens of millions of people who shop there, I would imagine. It's the biggest grocery chain in the country for God's sake.

Try everyday. Violence at Walmart is rampant. It's being reported on. But hey, you wanna shop in a disgusting hellhole, go for it. Enjoy.

I don't enjoy it and with that many stores it will be in the news every day but the chances of you being there are 1 in 4,000 divided by how long you shop there by how often you shop there meaning, you won't likely be there. With 4,000 stores and that many assholes in them, shit will happen so adjust your paranoia appropriately.

I have adjusted, i'll never shop at Walmart again. It represents the absolute worst America has to offer. From treating its workers like shite, to its massive hordes of ignorant mongoloid customers. It's sheer misery. By far the worst shopping experience possible. But hey if stinky misery is your thing, happy shopping i guess.

I dislike Walmart. That doesn't mean it's unsafe or its toilets are unsafe.

 

[SwimExpert]

It is in the news. Violence at Walmart is very common. Check out the Internet and you'll find stories everyday about violence in Walmarts all across the country. It's a well-known criminal hangout.

You'd be very wise to stay away from Walmarts at certain times of the day. And for God's sake, don't sit your buttocks on a Walmart toilet. That would be just plain crazy.

I will not be living my life according to your paranoia. Thanks all the same.

And will you hear a Walmart story often enough? With something like 4,000 stores and tens of millions of people who shop there, I would imagine. It's the biggest grocery chain in the country for God's sake.

Try everyday. Violence at Walmart is rampant. It's being reported on. But hey, you wanna shop in a disgusting hellhole, go for it. Enjoy.

I don't enjoy it and with that many stores it will be in the news every day but the chances of you being there are 1 in 4,000 divided by how long you shop there by how often you shop there meaning, you won't likely be there. With 4,000 stores and that many assholes in them, shit will happen so adjust your paranoia appropriately.

I have adjusted, i'll never shop at Walmart again. It represents the absolute worst America has to offer. From treating its workers like shite, to its massive hordes of ignorant mongoloid customers. It's sheer misery. By far the worst shopping experience possible. But hey if stinky misery is your thing, happy shopping i guess.

I dislike Walmart. That doesn't mean it's unsafe or its toilets are unsafe.

I dislike Walmart because customers are more likely to pee in the softlines section than they are in gender designated toilets.

 

[paulitician]

Sure, of course the cost is a factor for any business paulitician

There are ways to make the added security affordable.
There are grants and nonprofits that help with creating jobs for Vets,
and some for excons who are turning their lives around. If you pair
up a Vet with an excon, that's a win win situation. I'd recommend having
an extra pair of security guards anyway. Lives would be saved by avoiding
one on one confrontations, where two people on patrol makes all the difference.

If the point is for the federal govt to offer protections, why not offer tax breaks
for creating jobs for security. Perhaps the deterrence effect and other benefits
would be worth the investment.

Walmart's not too concerned about it. It's rakin in $Billions. It's decided not to spring for extra security. Walmarts are actually very dangerous places at certain times of the day.

Like i said, it's a notorious criminal hangout. But as long as millions of folks keep showing up to buy more cheap shitty Chinese-made shite, Walmart's just fine with the current set-up.

Walmart is very dangerous? More of this all in your head thing. With that many stores if they were very dangerous it would be all over the news. The constant stream of people actually makes them very safe. If you want danger, drop by a 7-11 at 3AM when only drunks or criminals are around.

With all your fears and paranoia, you must live in a bunker.

It is in the news. Violence at Walmart is very common. Check out the Internet and you'll find stories everyday about violence in Walmarts all across the country. It's a well-known criminal hangout.

You'd be very wise to stay away from Walmarts at certain times of the day. And for God's sake, don't sit your buttocks on a Walmart toilet. That would be just plain crazy.

I will not be living my life according to your paranoia. Thanks all the same.

And will you hear a Walmart story often enough? With something like 4,000 stores and tens of millions of people who shop there, I would imagine. It's the biggest grocery chain in the country for God's sake.

Dear Jack4jill
maybe where you are Walmarts are civilized safe places.
They used to be so nice, one of my friends would go there at night to enjoy the air conditioning
and just hang out instead of being stuck in a hot apt.

But as neighborhoods went down, so did the customer base in those areas.
Maybe your world is not as crazy as what paulitician has seen,
and the nonsense I've seen go on at understaffed stores where the late night riff raff
had torn open packages in the aisles and let children run loose playing with toys and eating food.

I was waiting in line, where there weren't enough cashiers to check out the customers,
when one manager had to tell the other worker to go clean up damage in one of the aisles.

I usually go to Walgreens or HEB (Texas grocery chain) to get things instead of waiting in long lines.
I go to Walmart when the late night access is the only place that fits my schedule.
When it's not crowded, it's no problem, the staff are generally helpful when they're not overbooked.

Oh yeah, the ripped open packages strewn all over the floors was a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Grown adults ripping packages open and just tossing em on the floor? Who does that? Then there's the understaffing and the company treating the workers like shite. And of course the products being cheap shitty Chinese-made products. The list just goes on & on.

I gladly pay a little more for a decent shopping experience. It's kinda sad, Target just lost so many customers to Walmart. It only encourages Walmart to get even shittier. It won't effect me though. I'll never return to Walmart. But unfortunately, millions of other Americans feel they have no choice but to shop there. I feel for em.

 

[paulitician]

It is in the news. Violence at Walmart is very common. Check out the Internet and you'll find stories everyday about violence in Walmarts all across the country. It's a well-known criminal hangout.

You'd be very wise to stay away from Walmarts at certain times of the day. And for God's sake, don't sit your buttocks on a Walmart toilet. That would be just plain crazy.

I will not be living my life according to your paranoia. Thanks all the same.

And will you hear a Walmart story often enough? With something like 4,000 stores and tens of millions of people who shop there, I would imagine. It's the biggest grocery chain in the country for God's sake.

Try everyday. Violence at Walmart is rampant. It's being reported on. But hey, you wanna shop in a disgusting hellhole, go for it. Enjoy.

I don't enjoy it and with that many stores it will be in the news every day but the chances of you being there are 1 in 4,000 divided by how long you shop there by how often you shop there meaning, you won't likely be there. With 4,000 stores and that many assholes in them, shit will happen so adjust your paranoia appropriately.

I have adjusted, i'll never shop at Walmart again. It represents the absolute worst America has to offer. From treating its workers like shite, to its massive hordes of ignorant mongoloid customers. It's sheer misery. By far the worst shopping experience possible. But hey if stinky misery is your thing, happy shopping i guess.

I dislike Walmart. That doesn't mean it's unsafe or its toilets are unsafe.

Fair enough. I don't shop there, so i don't care anymore. I'm actually a little sad Target just lost so many customers to it. Target's not the Third World Hellhole Walmart is.

 

[paulitician]

I will not be living my life according to your paranoia. Thanks all the same.

And will you hear a Walmart story often enough? With something like 4,000 stores and tens of millions of people who shop there, I would imagine. It's the biggest grocery chain in the country for God's sake.

Try everyday. Violence at Walmart is rampant. It's being reported on. But hey, you wanna shop in a disgusting hellhole, go for it. Enjoy.

I don't enjoy it and with that many stores it will be in the news every day but the chances of you being there are 1 in 4,000 divided by how long you shop there by how often you shop there meaning, you won't likely be there. With 4,000 stores and that many assholes in them, shit will happen so adjust your paranoia appropriately.

I have adjusted, i'll never shop at Walmart again. It represents the absolute worst America has to offer. From treating its workers like shite, to its massive hordes of ignorant mongoloid customers. It's sheer misery. By far the worst shopping experience possible. But hey if stinky misery is your thing, happy shopping i guess.

I dislike Walmart. That doesn't mean it's unsafe or its toilets are unsafe.

I dislike Walmart because customers are more likely to pee in the softlines section than they are in gender designated toilets.

Ha, Spot On. I swear, i was in there one time, and there was actual human excrement on the floor in front of the Deli. I don't get how anyone can really say they enjoy shopping at Walmart. However, i do realize many people feel they're stuck. They feel it's the only store they can afford. I feel for those folks.

 

[rightwinger]

Frankly, I think it is a big deal over nothing

In almost 60 years, I have never encountered a tranny in the bathroom. If I did, I'd be fine just letting em do their business and move on

 

[emilynghiem]

Telling someone they can be something they cannot ever be is the problem.

Pity makes poor public policy.

A tran individual attempts to, through cosmetic surgery, fool the public that they are of the opposite sex, but in reality they remain incredibly more simalar to the sex listed on their birth certificate.

A trans male may dress like a female, apply makeup like a female, but it is simply a cosmetic disquise meant to deceive the public as well as themselves. They remain vastly more Male then female.

Taken to the extreme they will even have cosmetic surgery on their genitals and their chests, but even then, a male trans breasts will not function as a females, unable to fulfill the basic reason breasts exist to begin with. Simply cosmetic and vastly more closely related to a male then a female.

The male tran can have his penis surgically altered to resemble a vagina, but it will not function like one. A Woman has a vagina, but it is simply a small part of the entire female reproductive system that the male tran will never have. Again, the male tran is still vastly more closely related to the Male, and it remains debateable how exactly they are related to the female at all.

The government had no duty to recognize a cosmetically altered individual, when that individual does so voluntarily.

We have recognized that some will take advantage of the trans and passed law (Hate Crime), to address this. By doing this, the government has fulfilled its obligation to these people.

Pity makes poor public policy and even worse theropy.

Dear Pop23: This is a good explanation of why people are saying this is a BEHAVIOR issue and a choice, How it is still about EXTERNAL appearance.

As for the spiritual and psychological element of gender,
I believe science HAS shown that the brains of such people are different,
and parts like the hypothalamus (I think?) that is larger in females
is found to align with those who identify as feminine.

This is NOT to say it is unchangeable any more than you can say
people born with cancer are stuck with cancer and can't change that.

There ARE people who have changed and people who aren't able to.
by individual liberty, this part of the spiritual process is not something that govt can dictate either.

We should be seeking policies on the side of free choice and not imposing on one side or the other.
True neutrality not dictating policy.

Science should show us that there are not just one type of case, not all are by choice and not all are inborn.
This business of trying to say it's ALL behavioral and free choice or it's ALL genetic/inborn and not a choice,
are BOTH excluding where the other side has a point. Some are one way and some are the other.

The sooner people on both sides realize they are both right and both wrong on respective points,
they will see it's EQUAL and there is no need to demonize one side or the other as more wrong.

They are equally wrongful to exclude and harass people of opposing viewpoints that have merits to at least some of their arguments.

The harassment and discrimination has been going on with both sides.
It will go in circles until there is mutual correction.

This idea of expecting a resolution by pushing one way is not going to work.
both sides are going to have to give and take equally for MUTUAL changes
to take place in perception as necessary to reach an understanding.

 

[emilynghiem]

Please reply with A, B, C, None of the Above, or Other:
Would any of these ideas solve problems with the Bathroom Policy and Transgender issues:

A/1. Similar to people having to be medically documented as having a disability for special accommodations such as handicapped parking, what if people had to have a licensed medical doctor approve they are biologically male/female if this is different from their birth certificate. And be screened to make sure they do not have any dangerous predatory criminal illness that renders them unsafe to be around children or other people in restrooms or shower facilities. Would medical/scientific documentation of BIOLOGICAL gender be good enough instead of going by psychologically what people claim (which would not work for other disability/ADA).

the same way nobody wants anyone to abuse handicap/disability designation by claiming conditions they don't have, why not allow the same medical documentation for "biological gender" so this isn't abused by criminals.

B/2. If neutrality and universal inclusion, regardless of belief or gender, are the real issue, why not
have individual stalls or unisex/neutral restrooms that don't distinguish gender at all.

Would that also prevent bullying of transgender people if nobody is in the restroom with them to harass them?

On that note, why not pass stricter laws against unwelcome contact, harassment, or other behavior to create an "unsafe hostile environment" similar to anti-harassment policies in employment standards. And protect ALL PEOPLE not just by gender, orientation, race etc. but make it clear the point is no bullying or abuse of ANYONE. IE NO special protections or treatment, but this applies to ALL people of ALL backgrounds.

C/3. if the issue is security, as it has been brought up that more rapes and assaults occur in restrooms by heterosexual criminals, why not direct funds and attention (currently expended on fighting over this conflict) toward creating jobs for retired or disabled police/vets to mentor interns in security at restroom sites.

If the security is done in pairs, this would allow male/female and experienced/training staff to work together.
Wouldn't that do more to prevent any such fears of bullying, criminal abuse, or other unsafe environment issues?

Please comment if any of these points A, B, C or Other Ideas would work for you or what you think.
D. None of the Above
E. Other

F. if your point is to make a social statement, either for or against gender/orientation or beliefs for or against one side or the other, you are free to use this thread for that, but I hope you will be honest that people on both sides are projecting their support or opposition to groups onto this issue instead of addressing it specifically.

It's only a problem for homophobes and faux "christian" who misuse the bible to justify their sexual insecurities.

They are digesting people the bigoted homophobes spewing hate on LGBT people... we solve the problem by flushing these turds down the public restroom toilet.

Dear hazlnut
if you read the added comments and posts,
people are saying it's the liberals and LGBT projecting their issues onto this, which didn't used to be a problem until it was made into one.

Do you agree that the behavior appears to be mutual?

Secular Liberals have long objected to Christian preaching their Christianity in schools and in public, saying they should keep their religion to themselves.
And quit judging people for believing otherwise as being wrong and deserving of condemnation.

Now the other side objects to liberals preaching homosexuality in schools and in public, saying they should keep their beliefs and agenda to themselves.
And anyone who disagrees is automatically wrong, and deserves to be called names and ostracized or punished by govt.

Don't both sides come across as projecting and imposing?

If Christians are expected to prove their claims scientifically before expecting anyone to accept them as true.
Where is the same burden of proof for liberals?

Last I checked spiritual healing was able to heal abuse and change people's orientations if it was caused by that. So if liberals are rejecting that information and refusing to include it in their research, how can you call any of this proven by science?

 

[paulitician]

Frankly, I think it is a big deal over nothing

In almost 60 years, I have never encountered a tranny in the bathroom. If I did, I'd be fine just letting em do their business and move on

Well, it isn't only about you. Many women and parents feel uncomfortable with the idea of creepy dudes hangin in the ladies room. It's not about politics or religion so much. It's just how many people feel.

Target has chased many of its loyal customers away. Walmart especially, is very happy with Target's recent decision on this issue. It's gained Thousands of new customers.

 

[Pop23]

Telling someone they can be something they cannot ever be is the problem.

Pity makes poor public policy.

A tran individual attempts to, through cosmetic surgery, fool the public that they are of the opposite sex, but in reality they remain incredibly more simalar to the sex listed on their birth certificate.

A trans male may dress like a female, apply makeup like a female, but it is simply a cosmetic disquise meant to deceive the public as well as themselves. They remain vastly more Male then female.

Taken to the extreme they will even have cosmetic surgery on their genitals and their chests, but even then, a male trans breasts will not function as a females, unable to fulfill the basic reason breasts exist to begin with. Simply cosmetic and vastly more closely related to a male then a female.

The male tran can have his penis surgically altered to resemble a vagina, but it will not function like one. A Woman has a vagina, but it is simply a small part of the entire female reproductive system that the male tran will never have. Again, the male tran is still vastly more closely related to the Male, and it remains debateable how exactly they are related to the female at all.

The government had no duty to recognize a cosmetically altered individual, when that individual does so voluntarily.

We have recognized that some will take advantage of the trans and passed law (Hate Crime), to address this. By doing this, the government has fulfilled its obligation to these people.

Pity makes poor public policy and even worse theropy.

Dear Pop23: This is a good explanation of why people are saying this is a BEHAVIOR issue and a choice, How it is still about EXTERNAL appearance.

As for the spiritual and psychological element of gender,
I believe science HAS shown that the brains of such people are different,
and parts like the hypothalamus (I think?) that is larger in females
is found to align with those who identify as feminine.

This is NOT to say it is unchangeable any more than you can say
people born with cancer are stuck with cancer and can't change that.

There ARE people who have changed and people who aren't able to.
by individual liberty, this part of the spiritual process is not something that govt can dictate either.

We should be seeking policies on the side of free choice and not imposing on one side or the other.
True neutrality not dictating policy.

Science should show us that there are not just one type of case, not all are by choice and not all are inborn.
This business of trying to say it's ALL behavioral and free choice or it's ALL genetic/inborn and not a choice,
are BOTH excluding where the other side has a point. Some are one way and some are the other.

The sooner people on both sides realize they are both right and both wrong on respective points,
they will see it's EQUAL and there is no need to demonize one side or the other as more wrong.

They are equally wrongful to exclude and harass people of opposing viewpoints that have merits to at least some of their arguments.

The harassment and discrimination has been going on with both sides.
It will go in circles until there is mutual correction.

This idea of expecting a resolution by pushing one way is not going to work.
both sides are going to have to give and take equally for MUTUAL changes
to take place in perception as necessary to reach an understanding.

If science is settled on this issue at all, it is that no amount of cosmetic surgery can accomplish the task of turning someone who thinks they are in the wrong sexes body, into that sex.

If it is impossible to make such change they will remain unhappy with themselves regardless if we change restroom designation. It can be no other way.

Sorry, having such little effect, and possibly a negative effect ( enabling ) on such a tiny population, is not even worth time.

 

[emilynghiem]

Telling someone they can be something they cannot ever be is the problem.

Pity makes poor public policy.

A tran individual attempts to, through cosmetic surgery, fool the public that they are of the opposite sex, but in reality they remain incredibly more simalar to the sex listed on their birth certificate.

A trans male may dress like a female, apply makeup like a female, but it is simply a cosmetic disquise meant to deceive the public as well as themselves. They remain vastly more Male then female.

Taken to the extreme they will even have cosmetic surgery on their genitals and their chests, but even then, a male trans breasts will not function as a females, unable to fulfill the basic reason breasts exist to begin with. Simply cosmetic and vastly more closely related to a male then a female.

The male tran can have his penis surgically altered to resemble a vagina, but it will not function like one. A Woman has a vagina, but it is simply a small part of the entire female reproductive system that the male tran will never have. Again, the male tran is still vastly more closely related to the Male, and it remains debateable how exactly they are related to the female at all.

The government had no duty to recognize a cosmetically altered individual, when that individual does so voluntarily.

We have recognized that some will take advantage of the trans and passed law (Hate Crime), to address this. By doing this, the government has fulfilled its obligation to these people.

Pity makes poor public policy and even worse theropy.

Dear Pop23: This is a good explanation of why people are saying this is a BEHAVIOR issue and a choice, How it is still about EXTERNAL appearance.

As for the spiritual and psychological element of gender,
I believe science HAS shown that the brains of such people are different,
and parts like the hypothalamus (I think?) that is larger in females
is found to align with those who identify as feminine.

This is NOT to say it is unchangeable any more than you can say
people born with cancer are stuck with cancer and can't change that.

There ARE people who have changed and people who aren't able to.
by individual liberty, this part of the spiritual process is not something that govt can dictate either.

We should be seeking policies on the side of free choice and not imposing on one side or the other.
True neutrality not dictating policy.

Science should show us that there are not just one type of case, not all are by choice and not all are inborn.
This business of trying to say it's ALL behavioral and free choice or it's ALL genetic/inborn and not a choice,
are BOTH excluding where the other side has a point. Some are one way and some are the other.

The sooner people on both sides realize they are both right and both wrong on respective points,
they will see it's EQUAL and there is no need to demonize one side or the other as more wrong.

They are equally wrongful to exclude and harass people of opposing viewpoints that have merits to at least some of their arguments.

The harassment and discrimination has been going on with both sides.
It will go in circles until there is mutual correction.

This idea of expecting a resolution by pushing one way is not going to work.
both sides are going to have to give and take equally for MUTUAL changes
to take place in perception as necessary to reach an understanding.

If science is settled on this issue at all, it is that no amount of cosmetic surgery can accomplish the task of turning someone who thinks they are in the wrong sexes body, into that sex.

If it is impossible to make such change they will remain unhappy with themselves regardless if we change restroom designation. It can be no other way.

Sorry, having such little effect, and possibly a negative effect ( enabling ) on such a tiny population, is not even worth time.

Dear Pop23
1. you are focusing on the just physical aspect of gender. Yes, science will show that "orientation" is not
predetermined at the genetic level as race is. The studies already show homosexuality is not 100% genetic, but identical twins will show at most a 53% probability of being the same orientation. (Also orientation can change but race cannot, also provable by science.)

2. as for internal gender identity,
nobody can prove or disprove this isn't a SPIRITUAL process or choice similar to religious beliefs.

So like any other belief or creed, that is protected equally under law from discrimination,
same as people who don't believe homosexuality is natural and don't want to participate or condone it in any way
where it is against their beliefs. Neither side should be discriminated against for their beliefs,
where both can be argued as spiritual and outside govt jurisdiction.

I find it best to address both sides as a spiritual issue of belief and creed
so on that level both can be addressed and protected equally
from imposition by the other.

 

[rightwinger]

Frankly, I think it is a big deal over nothing

In almost 60 years, I have never encountered a tranny in the bathroom. If I did, I'd be fine just letting em do their business and move on

Well, it isn't only about you. Many women and parents feel uncomfortable with the idea of creepy dudes hangin in the ladies room. It's not about politics or religion so much. It's just how many people feel.

Target has chased many of its loyal customers away. Walmart especially, is very happy with Target's recent decision on this issue. It's gained Thousands of new customers.

Like I said, I have never encountered a tranny in a restroom

I have encountered many creepy dudes and they were the same sex as me

 

[Pop23]

Telling someone they can be something they cannot ever be is the problem.

Pity makes poor public policy.

A tran individual attempts to, through cosmetic surgery, fool the public that they are of the opposite sex, but in reality they remain incredibly more simalar to the sex listed on their birth certificate.

A trans male may dress like a female, apply makeup like a female, but it is simply a cosmetic disquise meant to deceive the public as well as themselves. They remain vastly more Male then female.

Taken to the extreme they will even have cosmetic surgery on their genitals and their chests, but even then, a male trans breasts will not function as a females, unable to fulfill the basic reason breasts exist to begin with. Simply cosmetic and vastly more closely related to a male then a female.

The male tran can have his penis surgically altered to resemble a vagina, but it will not function like one. A Woman has a vagina, but it is simply a small part of the entire female reproductive system that the male tran will never have. Again, the male tran is still vastly more closely related to the Male, and it remains debateable how exactly they are related to the female at all.

The government had no duty to recognize a cosmetically altered individual, when that individual does so voluntarily.

We have recognized that some will take advantage of the trans and passed law (Hate Crime), to address this. By doing this, the government has fulfilled its obligation to these people.

Pity makes poor public policy and even worse theropy.

Dear Pop23: This is a good explanation of why people are saying this is a BEHAVIOR issue and a choice, How it is still about EXTERNAL appearance.

As for the spiritual and psychological element of gender,
I believe science HAS shown that the brains of such people are different,
and parts like the hypothalamus (I think?) that is larger in females
is found to align with those who identify as feminine.

This is NOT to say it is unchangeable any more than you can say
people born with cancer are stuck with cancer and can't change that.

There ARE people who have changed and people who aren't able to.
by individual liberty, this part of the spiritual process is not something that govt can dictate either.

We should be seeking policies on the side of free choice and not imposing on one side or the other.
True neutrality not dictating policy.

Science should show us that there are not just one type of case, not all are by choice and not all are inborn.
This business of trying to say it's ALL behavioral and free choice or it's ALL genetic/inborn and not a choice,
are BOTH excluding where the other side has a point. Some are one way and some are the other.

The sooner people on both sides realize they are both right and both wrong on respective points,
they will see it's EQUAL and there is no need to demonize one side or the other as more wrong.

They are equally wrongful to exclude and harass people of opposing viewpoints that have merits to at least some of their arguments.

The harassment and discrimination has been going on with both sides.
It will go in circles until there is mutual correction.

This idea of expecting a resolution by pushing one way is not going to work.
both sides are going to have to give and take equally for MUTUAL changes
to take place in perception as necessary to reach an understanding.

If science is settled on this issue at all, it is that no amount of cosmetic surgery can accomplish the task of turning someone who thinks they are in the wrong sexes body, into that sex.

If it is impossible to make such change they will remain unhappy with themselves regardless if we change restroom designation. It can be no other way.

Sorry, having such little effect, and possibly a negative effect ( enabling ) on such a tiny population, is not even worth time.

Dear Pop23
1. you are focusing on the just physical aspect of gender. Yes, science will show that "orientation" is not
predetermined at the genetic level as race is. The studies already show homosexuality is not 100% genetic, but identical twins will show at most a 53% probability of being the same orientation. (Also orientation can change but race cannot, also provable by science.)

2. as for internal gender identity,
nobody can prove or disprove this isn't a SPIRITUAL process or choice similar to religious beliefs.

So like any other belief or creed, that is protected equally under law from discrimination,
same as people who don't believe homosexuality is natural and don't want to participate or condone it in any way
where it is against their beliefs. Neither side should be discriminated against for their beliefs,
where both can be argued as spiritual and outside govt jurisdiction.

I find it best to address both sides as a spiritual issue of belief and creed
so on that level both can be addressed and protected equally
from imposition by the other.

You earlier brought how a trans brain actually works differently.

That is not uncommon with those that obsessed with an idea. Many suffering from OCD have brains that are changed. It's not a secret in the medical world. So yes, I focus on the cosmetics of it.

If cosmetics and only cosmetics meet the needs of these individuals, then the question is, why only is it superficial qualities that they require to feel a woman?

Any thinking human, knowing the depth of what a woman actually goes through is right to chuckle at this.

 

[paulitician]

Frankly, I think it is a big deal over nothing

In almost 60 years, I have never encountered a tranny in the bathroom. If I did, I'd be fine just letting em do their business and move on

Well, it isn't only about you. Many women and parents feel uncomfortable with the idea of creepy dudes hangin in the ladies room. It's not about politics or religion so much. It's just how many people feel.

Target has chased many of its loyal customers away. Walmart especially, is very happy with Target's recent decision on this issue. It's gained Thousands of new customers.

Like I said, I have never encountered a tranny in a restroom

I have encountered many creepy dudes and they were the same sex as me

Again, it's not only about you. Many women and parents feel differently. They're not into the whole creepy dude peepin them and their families' peepies thing. That may be your thing, but it isn't for most others.

Target thought it was being cute by pushing a PC promotional stunt. But it looks like it's backfiring. It's lost Thousands of loyal customers it couldn't afford to lose. It is what it is.

 

[rightwinger]

Ok conservatives... Choose your poison

You are in a men's room

Do you want a guy in a dress peeing in the urinal next to you
Or
A cross dressing lesbian using one of the stalls