Would you favor Trump dismissing all Dept. of Education Employees, effectively shutting it down?

[80zephyr]

Not one pipe could be laid, not one power line could be installed, not one bridge could be built without engineers to design them.

I'm sorry you have such disregard for the professionals who design, heal, research and teach. Tradesmen are indispensable. But without those with higher education, tradesmen become repairmen, not builders.

Not one pipe could be laid, not one power line could be installed, not one bridge could be built without a tradesman to pick up a shovel, a hammer, a rivet gun, a wrench. I'm sorry you think that college is the ONLY answer to life.

Itynot the only answer. But it's the indispensable answer.

It is very disputable.

I said 'indispensable '.

Why do you have such contempt for higher education? Do you think a plumber can repair your faulty heart valve? Do you think an electrician can design the bridge you drive across? Do you think a carpenter can research infectious diseases?

We absolutely need higher education if, for no other reason, to teach fools like you that skill sets extend only so far and the future is unattainable without highly educated citizens.

Again with the false statements? I don't have contempt for higher education. I have two degrees, and 15 credits toward My MBA.

Which is why I know that I don't ask a plumber to repair a faulty heart valve. I do ask one to repair My indoor plumbing, that is if I can find one. If you had bothered to do any research on this subject at all, you'd know that we have a gap in qualified and skilled tradespeople and millions of unfulfilled jobs in these trades. People can get very high paying jobs, have very satisfying lives, and be happy in life without the massive crushing debt that is associated with degrees that provide no training for jobs that the graduates won't have.

The truth is, educated is not trained and many degreed people are not working in the fields they have a degree for.

I think that higher education is very dispensable for 80% of the country.

People like you are the reason we have an education funding crisis and why people are in unneeded debt.

You look down on people who earn a journeyman position in the trades and treat them as some kind of 'loser' in life's lottery.

Hey, I'll tell you what though, the next time you need a broken pipe fixed, call your family doctor.

My family is packed with union tradesmen. My 29 year old son makes $40.50 per hour, and excellent benefits. And he got paid union wages for going to school.

Mark

 

[Darkwind]

Not one pipe could be laid, not one power line could be installed, not one bridge could be built without a tradesman to pick up a shovel, a hammer, a rivet gun, a wrench. I'm sorry you think that college is the ONLY answer to life.

Itynot the only answer. But it's the indispensable answer.

It is very disputable.

I said 'indispensable '.

Why do you have such contempt for higher education? Do you think a plumber can repair your faulty heart valve? Do you think an electrician can design the bridge you drive across? Do you think a carpenter can research infectious diseases?

We absolutely need higher education if, for no other reason, to teach fools like you that skill sets extend only so far and the future is unattainable without highly educated citizens.

Again with the false statements? I don't have contempt for higher education. I have two degrees, and 15 credits toward My MBA.

Which is why I know that I don't ask a plumber to repair a faulty heart valve. I do ask one to repair My indoor plumbing, that is if I can find one. If you had bothered to do any research on this subject at all, you'd know that we have a gap in qualified and skilled tradespeople and millions of unfulfilled jobs in these trades. People can get very high paying jobs, have very satisfying lives, and be happy in life without the massive crushing debt that is associated with degrees that provide no training for jobs that the graduates won't have.

The truth is, educated is not trained and many degreed people are not working in the fields they have a degree for.

I think that higher education is very dispensable for 80% of the country.

People like you are the reason we have an education funding crisis and why people are in unneeded debt.

You look down on people who earn a journeyman position in the trades and treat them as some kind of 'loser' in life's lottery.

Hey, I'll tell you what though, the next time you need a broken pipe fixed, call your family doctor.

Where did you read in any of my posts I "look down on people who earn a journeyman position"? My posts here have been peppered with resp Ct for tradesmen.

My initial question was: Who will administer Pell Grants?

Eliminating the DoE would mean the elimination of that vital program.

I went to college with the help of Pell Grants.

Your entire attitude toward them screams it. When you make statements like, will you ask a carpenter to do surgery on you, you demean those who follow a life in the trades.

Some reality is this. When a journeyman has been plying his or her trade for 10, 20, 30 years, they have such a deep understanding of their craft that they have what is more than a Doctorate in that subject. At 10 to 15 years, I would equate their skill at more than a graduate level degree, and from 5 to 10 years, at bachelors easily.

With all that said, they don't have to go 50k to 250k dollars in debt to achieve it.

For those who want to go to college, more power to them. We need to stop pushing it ahead of other choices, however.

 

[Darkwind]

Not one pipe could be laid, not one power line could be installed, not one bridge could be built without a tradesman to pick up a shovel, a hammer, a rivet gun, a wrench. I'm sorry you think that college is the ONLY answer to life.

Itynot the only answer. But it's the indispensable answer.

It is very disputable.

I said 'indispensable '.

Why do you have such contempt for higher education? Do you think a plumber can repair your faulty heart valve? Do you think an electrician can design the bridge you drive across? Do you think a carpenter can research infectious diseases?

We absolutely need higher education if, for no other reason, to teach fools like you that skill sets extend only so far and the future is unattainable without highly educated citizens.

Again with the false statements? I don't have contempt for higher education. I have two degrees, and 15 credits toward My MBA.

Which is why I know that I don't ask a plumber to repair a faulty heart valve. I do ask one to repair My indoor plumbing, that is if I can find one. If you had bothered to do any research on this subject at all, you'd know that we have a gap in qualified and skilled tradespeople and millions of unfulfilled jobs in these trades. People can get very high paying jobs, have very satisfying lives, and be happy in life without the massive crushing debt that is associated with degrees that provide no training for jobs that the graduates won't have.

The truth is, educated is not trained and many degreed people are not working in the fields they have a degree for.

I think that higher education is very dispensable for 80% of the country.

People like you are the reason we have an education funding crisis and why people are in unneeded debt.

You look down on people who earn a journeyman position in the trades and treat them as some kind of 'loser' in life's lottery.

Hey, I'll tell you what though, the next time you need a broken pipe fixed, call your family doctor.

My family is packed with union tradesmen. My 29 year old son makes $40.50 per hour, and excellent benefits. And he got paid union wages for going to school.

Mark

Mine too. My father was a welder for 40 years. Work on some NASA projects and when he retired, was a lead welder/project manager for the Abrams tank for the subcontractor to the Army. My grandfather was a welder and worked in the Alameda Shipyards in the 40's and 50's.

 

[martybegan]

The same applies to the above. If your only argument is that it may be abused, then we might as well all start our own horde and ride the plains seeking pillage targets.

There is a role for a Dept of Ed at the federal level, to supply minimum general requirements for schooling.

My argument is not that it may be abused. It HAS been abused. Repeatedly. The best indicator of future conduct is past conduct.

Why must the federal government establish minimum general requirements for schooling? Either I am is failing to see the need or you are failing to communicate it.

Lack of minimal standards would impact transfers of degrees as requirements between the States. It would allow States to reject diplomas from other States in objection to full faith and credit.

There is no prohibition in the constitution for it.

This already happens.

Mark

I think you are talking about occupational certifications, not diplomas.

If my diploma gets me a certificate here, but it won't in another state, isn't that the same thing?

Mark

For some certificates the diploma is only one part. As an example, for a Professional Engineer's license you need to pass a test, and show valid work experience.

The diploma part is rated based on accreditation, accredited degrees are worth more "years of experience" than non accredited.

 

[Staidhup]

I support local control of our educational system, charter schools, school choice. In short the DOE serves no purpose other than to ingratiate their coffers at the expense of the tax payer. Abolish the DOE and distribute the funds to the states based on student enrollment.

 

[80zephyr]

My argument is not that it may be abused. It HAS been abused. Repeatedly. The best indicator of future conduct is past conduct.

Why must the federal government establish minimum general requirements for schooling? Either I am is failing to see the need or you are failing to communicate it.

Lack of minimal standards would impact transfers of degrees as requirements between the States. It would allow States to reject diplomas from other States in objection to full faith and credit.

There is no prohibition in the constitution for it.

This already happens.

Mark

I think you are talking about occupational certifications, not diplomas.

If my diploma gets me a certificate here, but it won't in another state, isn't that the same thing?

Mark

For some certificates the diploma is only one part. As an example, for a Professional Engineer's license you need to pass a test, and show valid work experience.

The diploma part is rated based on accreditation, accredited degrees are worth more "years of experience" than non accredited.

My wife is a registered architect in the state of Wisconsin. I understand that her license is almost universally accepted anywhere in the US. It seems that Wisconsin has high standards when it comes to licensing architects. There are architects in other states that cannot practice in different states.

Hell, even in some schools, credits aren't transferable.

Mark

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Mine too. My father was a welder for 40 years. Work on some NASA projects and when he retired, was a lead welder/project manager for the Abrams tank for the subcontractor to the Army. My grandfather was a welder and worked in the Alameda Shipyards in the 40's and 50's.

My grandfather was a welder in South East Texas, mainly contracting with the petroleum and refining industries. That guy had many faults, but he always paid all of his bills and was debt free long before he retired.

 

[Staidhup]

Go to Europe someday, the trades are essential, well respected, and a viable force within their economies. Technical vocational education is the mainstay for those not desiring to enter secondary education to study a marketable profession.

 

[martybegan]

Lack of minimal standards would impact transfers of degrees as requirements between the States. It would allow States to reject diplomas from other States in objection to full faith and credit.

There is no prohibition in the constitution for it.

This already happens.

Mark

I think you are talking about occupational certifications, not diplomas.

If my diploma gets me a certificate here, but it won't in another state, isn't that the same thing?

Mark

For some certificates the diploma is only one part. As an example, for a Professional Engineer's license you need to pass a test, and show valid work experience.

The diploma part is rated based on accreditation, accredited degrees are worth more "years of experience" than non accredited.

My wife is a registered architect in the state of Wisconsin. I understand that her license is almost universally accepted anywhere in the US. It seems that Wisconsin has high standards when it comes to licensing architects. There are architects in other states that cannot practice in different states.

Hell, even in some schools, credits aren't transferable.

Mark

For Engineers its all up to the States, and some of them still require you to use US mail to request documents.

 

[Nosmo King]

Itynot the only answer. But it's the indispensable answer.

It is very disputable.

I said 'indispensable '.

Why do you have such contempt for higher education? Do you think a plumber can repair your faulty heart valve? Do you think an electrician can design the bridge you drive across? Do you think a carpenter can research infectious diseases?

We absolutely need higher education if, for no other reason, to teach fools like you that skill sets extend only so far and the future is unattainable without highly educated citizens.

Again with the false statements? I don't have contempt for higher education. I have two degrees, and 15 credits toward My MBA.

Which is why I know that I don't ask a plumber to repair a faulty heart valve. I do ask one to repair My indoor plumbing, that is if I can find one. If you had bothered to do any research on this subject at all, you'd know that we have a gap in qualified and skilled tradespeople and millions of unfulfilled jobs in these trades. People can get very high paying jobs, have very satisfying lives, and be happy in life without the massive crushing debt that is associated with degrees that provide no training for jobs that the graduates won't have.

The truth is, educated is not trained and many degreed people are not working in the fields they have a degree for.

I think that higher education is very dispensable for 80% of the country.

People like you are the reason we have an education funding crisis and why people are in unneeded debt.

You look down on people who earn a journeyman position in the trades and treat them as some kind of 'loser' in life's lottery.

Hey, I'll tell you what though, the next time you need a broken pipe fixed, call your family doctor.

Where did you read in any of my posts I "look down on people who earn a journeyman position"? My posts here have been peppered with resp Ct for tradesmen.

My initial question was: Who will administer Pell Grants?

Eliminating the DoE would mean the elimination of that vital program.

I went to college with the help of Pell Grants.

Your entire attitude toward them screams it. When you make statements like, will you ask a carpenter to do surgery on you, you demean those who follow a life in the trades.

Some reality is this. When a journeyman has been plying his or her trade for 10, 20, 30 years, they have such a deep understanding of their craft that they have what is more than a Doctorate in that subject. At 10 to 15 years, I would equate their skill at more than a graduate level degree, and from 5 to 10 years, at bachelors easily.

With all that said, they don't have to go 50k to 250k dollars in debt to achieve it.

For those who want to go to college, more power to them. We need to stop pushing it ahead of other choices, however.

I simply asked if the DoE is eliminating mated, who would administer Pell Grants.

Throughout my subsequent posts, I often peppered my comments with 'all due respect for tradesmen...'.

I have been amazed at the lack of support for higher education. Tradesmen certainly perform essential services. But college educated professionals are essential for our society's progress. Scientific advancement is a point of pride in modern American achievement. People from all over the globe come here to be schooled in essential professional skills. Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys serve global communities in no less a capacity than tradesmen.

If Right Wingers get their way and eliminate higher education opportunities for economically disadvantaged students, our national n will surely suffer as a result.

 

[RandomPoster]

It is very disputable.

I said 'indispensable '.

Why do you have such contempt for higher education? Do you think a plumber can repair your faulty heart valve? Do you think an electrician can design the bridge you drive across? Do you think a carpenter can research infectious diseases?

We absolutely need higher education if, for no other reason, to teach fools like you that skill sets extend only so far and the future is unattainable without highly educated citizens.

Again with the false statements? I don't have contempt for higher education. I have two degrees, and 15 credits toward My MBA.

Which is why I know that I don't ask a plumber to repair a faulty heart valve. I do ask one to repair My indoor plumbing, that is if I can find one. If you had bothered to do any research on this subject at all, you'd know that we have a gap in qualified and skilled tradespeople and millions of unfulfilled jobs in these trades. People can get very high paying jobs, have very satisfying lives, and be happy in life without the massive crushing debt that is associated with degrees that provide no training for jobs that the graduates won't have.

The truth is, educated is not trained and many degreed people are not working in the fields they have a degree for.

I think that higher education is very dispensable for 80% of the country.

People like you are the reason we have an education funding crisis and why people are in unneeded debt.

You look down on people who earn a journeyman position in the trades and treat them as some kind of 'loser' in life's lottery.

Hey, I'll tell you what though, the next time you need a broken pipe fixed, call your family doctor.

Where did you read in any of my posts I "look down on people who earn a journeyman position"? My posts here have been peppered with resp Ct for tradesmen.

My initial question was: Who will administer Pell Grants?

Eliminating the DoE would mean the elimination of that vital program.

I went to college with the help of Pell Grants.

Your entire attitude toward them screams it. When you make statements like, will you ask a carpenter to do surgery on you, you demean those who follow a life in the trades.

Some reality is this. When a journeyman has been plying his or her trade for 10, 20, 30 years, they have such a deep understanding of their craft that they have what is more than a Doctorate in that subject. At 10 to 15 years, I would equate their skill at more than a graduate level degree, and from 5 to 10 years, at bachelors easily.

With all that said, they don't have to go 50k to 250k dollars in debt to achieve it.

For those who want to go to college, more power to them. We need to stop pushing it ahead of other choices, however.

I simply asked if the DoE is eliminating mated, who would administer Pell Grants.

Throughout my subsequent posts, I often peppered my comments with 'all due respect for tradesmen...'.

I have been amazed at the lack of support for higher education. Tradesmen certainly perform essential services. But college educated professionals are essential for our society's progress. Scientific advancement is a point of pride in modern American achievement. People from all over the globe come here to be schooled in essential professional skills. Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys serve global communities in no less a capacity than tradesmen.

If Right Wingers get their way and eliminate higher education opportunities for economically disadvantaged students, our national n will surely suffer as a result.

In my opinion, most conservatives are more interested in cutting higher education for certain fields of study, specifically fields such as gender studies, ethnic studies, etc. You listed "Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys" as serving communities. I would remove artists from that list and as far as researchers are concerned, it depends on what they're researching. I say limit government funding to fields such as STEM and trades/professions (plumber, accountant, lawyer, anything that pays the bills in the free market). If you want a degree in Art History, pay for it yourself or get someone else to.

 

[Darkwind]

It is very disputable.

I said 'indispensable '.

Why do you have such contempt for higher education? Do you think a plumber can repair your faulty heart valve? Do you think an electrician can design the bridge you drive across? Do you think a carpenter can research infectious diseases?

We absolutely need higher education if, for no other reason, to teach fools like you that skill sets extend only so far and the future is unattainable without highly educated citizens.

Again with the false statements? I don't have contempt for higher education. I have two degrees, and 15 credits toward My MBA.

Which is why I know that I don't ask a plumber to repair a faulty heart valve. I do ask one to repair My indoor plumbing, that is if I can find one. If you had bothered to do any research on this subject at all, you'd know that we have a gap in qualified and skilled tradespeople and millions of unfulfilled jobs in these trades. People can get very high paying jobs, have very satisfying lives, and be happy in life without the massive crushing debt that is associated with degrees that provide no training for jobs that the graduates won't have.

The truth is, educated is not trained and many degreed people are not working in the fields they have a degree for.

I think that higher education is very dispensable for 80% of the country.

People like you are the reason we have an education funding crisis and why people are in unneeded debt.

You look down on people who earn a journeyman position in the trades and treat them as some kind of 'loser' in life's lottery.

Hey, I'll tell you what though, the next time you need a broken pipe fixed, call your family doctor.

Where did you read in any of my posts I "look down on people who earn a journeyman position"? My posts here have been peppered with resp Ct for tradesmen.

My initial question was: Who will administer Pell Grants?

Eliminating the DoE would mean the elimination of that vital program.

I went to college with the help of Pell Grants.

Your entire attitude toward them screams it. When you make statements like, will you ask a carpenter to do surgery on you, you demean those who follow a life in the trades.

Some reality is this. When a journeyman has been plying his or her trade for 10, 20, 30 years, they have such a deep understanding of their craft that they have what is more than a Doctorate in that subject. At 10 to 15 years, I would equate their skill at more than a graduate level degree, and from 5 to 10 years, at bachelors easily.

With all that said, they don't have to go 50k to 250k dollars in debt to achieve it.

For those who want to go to college, more power to them. We need to stop pushing it ahead of other choices, however.

I simply asked if the DoE is eliminating mated, who would administer Pell Grants.

Throughout my subsequent posts, I often peppered my comments with 'all due respect for tradesmen...'.

I have been amazed at the lack of support for higher education. Tradesmen certainly perform essential services. But college educated professionals are essential for our society's progress. Scientific advancement is a point of pride in modern American achievement. People from all over the globe come here to be schooled in essential professional skills. Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys serve global communities in no less a capacity than tradesmen.

If Right Wingers get their way and eliminate higher education opportunities for economically disadvantaged students, our national n will surely suffer as a result.

You won't be able to point to a single right-winger who thinks that science education needs to be eliminated, nor should it be. However, it does NOT take a cabinet-level department to administer Pell Grants. I don't fully buy into the notion that we as a nation can go forward ONLY if we send everyone who wants to go to college is given that opportunity.

We absolutely go forward when the trades are given top billing in educating our youth.

Today, higher education has become more of an indoctrination to political ideology than centers for advanced studies in specific sciences.

We educated people before the creation of the DoE, and we can continue to do so if we eliminate that department.

It is beyond time we start making priorities in spending at the Federal level and cutting out the "nice to haves" from the budget.

 

[Darkwind]

I said 'indispensable '.

Why do you have such contempt for higher education? Do you think a plumber can repair your faulty heart valve? Do you think an electrician can design the bridge you drive across? Do you think a carpenter can research infectious diseases?

We absolutely need higher education if, for no other reason, to teach fools like you that skill sets extend only so far and the future is unattainable without highly educated citizens.

Again with the false statements? I don't have contempt for higher education. I have two degrees, and 15 credits toward My MBA.

Which is why I know that I don't ask a plumber to repair a faulty heart valve. I do ask one to repair My indoor plumbing, that is if I can find one. If you had bothered to do any research on this subject at all, you'd know that we have a gap in qualified and skilled tradespeople and millions of unfulfilled jobs in these trades. People can get very high paying jobs, have very satisfying lives, and be happy in life without the massive crushing debt that is associated with degrees that provide no training for jobs that the graduates won't have.

The truth is, educated is not trained and many degreed people are not working in the fields they have a degree for.

I think that higher education is very dispensable for 80% of the country.

People like you are the reason we have an education funding crisis and why people are in unneeded debt.

You look down on people who earn a journeyman position in the trades and treat them as some kind of 'loser' in life's lottery.

Hey, I'll tell you what though, the next time you need a broken pipe fixed, call your family doctor.

Where did you read in any of my posts I "look down on people who earn a journeyman position"? My posts here have been peppered with resp Ct for tradesmen.

My initial question was: Who will administer Pell Grants?

Eliminating the DoE would mean the elimination of that vital program.

I went to college with the help of Pell Grants.

Your entire attitude toward them screams it. When you make statements like, will you ask a carpenter to do surgery on you, you demean those who follow a life in the trades.

Some reality is this. When a journeyman has been plying his or her trade for 10, 20, 30 years, they have such a deep understanding of their craft that they have what is more than a Doctorate in that subject. At 10 to 15 years, I would equate their skill at more than a graduate level degree, and from 5 to 10 years, at bachelors easily.

With all that said, they don't have to go 50k to 250k dollars in debt to achieve it.

For those who want to go to college, more power to them. We need to stop pushing it ahead of other choices, however.

I simply asked if the DoE is eliminating mated, who would administer Pell Grants.

Throughout my subsequent posts, I often peppered my comments with 'all due respect for tradesmen...'.

I have been amazed at the lack of support for higher education. Tradesmen certainly perform essential services. But college educated professionals are essential for our society's progress. Scientific advancement is a point of pride in modern American achievement. People from all over the globe come here to be schooled in essential professional skills. Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys serve global communities in no less a capacity than tradesmen.

If Right Wingers get their way and eliminate higher education opportunities for economically disadvantaged students, our national n will surely suffer as a result.

In my opinion, most conservatives are more interested in cutting higher education for certain fields of study, specifically fields such as gender studies, ethnic studies, etc. You listed "Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys" as serving communities. I would remove artists from that list and as far as researchers are concerned, it depends on what they're researching. I say limit government funding to fields such as STEM and trades/professions (plumber, accountant, lawyer, anything that pays the bills in the free market). If you want a degree in Art History, pay for it yourself or get someone else to.

For Me, just about any of the liberal arts with the exception of the classics. All STEM fields should be supported.

Another thing while we're at it. I DO believe that if there are demands for skillsets in the labor market, then Corporations and Businesses should put some skin in the game and pay for the education in those areas that they intend to utilize, and they can start that at the lowest levels possible.

Students in High School should, by the time they graduate, have been tested for vocational aptitudes and set on the path that best suits their talents.

 

[OnePercenter]

Would you miss it?

What is the constitutional basis for the DoE?

It needs to go. There is no value added by the money spent in its operation.

While it does not prove causation, there is a direct correlation between the creation of The ED and the drop in US student world rankings


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

While it does not prove causation, there is a direct correlation between the creation of The ED and the drop in US student world rankings

In what way?

 

[OnePercenter]

The reason tRump wants to dump the DoE is that rich folks don't need student loans.

 

[Nosmo King]

I said 'indispensable '.

Why do you have such contempt for higher education? Do you think a plumber can repair your faulty heart valve? Do you think an electrician can design the bridge you drive across? Do you think a carpenter can research infectious diseases?

We absolutely need higher education if, for no other reason, to teach fools like you that skill sets extend only so far and the future is unattainable without highly educated citizens.

Again with the false statements? I don't have contempt for higher education. I have two degrees, and 15 credits toward My MBA.

Which is why I know that I don't ask a plumber to repair a faulty heart valve. I do ask one to repair My indoor plumbing, that is if I can find one. If you had bothered to do any research on this subject at all, you'd know that we have a gap in qualified and skilled tradespeople and millions of unfulfilled jobs in these trades. People can get very high paying jobs, have very satisfying lives, and be happy in life without the massive crushing debt that is associated with degrees that provide no training for jobs that the graduates won't have.

The truth is, educated is not trained and many degreed people are not working in the fields they have a degree for.

I think that higher education is very dispensable for 80% of the country.

People like you are the reason we have an education funding crisis and why people are in unneeded debt.

You look down on people who earn a journeyman position in the trades and treat them as some kind of 'loser' in life's lottery.

Hey, I'll tell you what though, the next time you need a broken pipe fixed, call your family doctor.

Where did you read in any of my posts I "look down on people who earn a journeyman position"? My posts here have been peppered with resp Ct for tradesmen.

My initial question was: Who will administer Pell Grants?

Eliminating the DoE would mean the elimination of that vital program.

I went to college with the help of Pell Grants.

Your entire attitude toward them screams it. When you make statements like, will you ask a carpenter to do surgery on you, you demean those who follow a life in the trades.

Some reality is this. When a journeyman has been plying his or her trade for 10, 20, 30 years, they have such a deep understanding of their craft that they have what is more than a Doctorate in that subject. At 10 to 15 years, I would equate their skill at more than a graduate level degree, and from 5 to 10 years, at bachelors easily.

With all that said, they don't have to go 50k to 250k dollars in debt to achieve it.

For those who want to go to college, more power to them. We need to stop pushing it ahead of other choices, however.

I simply asked if the DoE is eliminating mated, who would administer Pell Grants.

Throughout my subsequent posts, I often peppered my comments with 'all due respect for tradesmen...'.

I have been amazed at the lack of support for higher education. Tradesmen certainly perform essential services. But college educated professionals are essential for our society's progress. Scientific advancement is a point of pride in modern American achievement. People from all over the globe come here to be schooled in essential professional skills. Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys serve global communities in no less a capacity than tradesmen.

If Right Wingers get their way and eliminate higher education opportunities for economically disadvantaged students, our national n will surely suffer as a result.

In my opinion, most conservatives are more interested in cutting higher education for certain fields of study, specifically fields such as gender studies, ethnic studies, etc. You listed "Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys" as serving communities. I would remove artists from that list and as far as researchers are concerned, it depends on what they're researching. I say limit government funding to fields such as STEM and trades/professions (plumber, accountant, lawyer, anything that pays the bills in the free market). If you want a degree in Art History, pay for it yourself or get someone else to.

You do not see art as necessary?

Why do Indonesians fly national flags and provide uniforms to their armed forces? Why do Zimbabweans sing a national anthem? The culture of Western civilization conquered the globe. They sing the blues in Chile. They admire Jackson Pollack in Mongolia. They dance the twist in Korea.

Beverly Sills once said "Art is the signature of a civilization." When Michelangelo sculpted David, who was the mayor of Florence? When Rembrandt painted The Old Masters, who was in charge of Amsterdam? It's the art, the music, the dance and plays and films that define our time and place.

She me may say they can live without the arts. But what of the quality of their lives?

 

[Darkwind]

Again with the false statements? I don't have contempt for higher education. I have two degrees, and 15 credits toward My MBA.

Which is why I know that I don't ask a plumber to repair a faulty heart valve. I do ask one to repair My indoor plumbing, that is if I can find one. If you had bothered to do any research on this subject at all, you'd know that we have a gap in qualified and skilled tradespeople and millions of unfulfilled jobs in these trades. People can get very high paying jobs, have very satisfying lives, and be happy in life without the massive crushing debt that is associated with degrees that provide no training for jobs that the graduates won't have.

The truth is, educated is not trained and many degreed people are not working in the fields they have a degree for.

I think that higher education is very dispensable for 80% of the country.

People like you are the reason we have an education funding crisis and why people are in unneeded debt.

You look down on people who earn a journeyman position in the trades and treat them as some kind of 'loser' in life's lottery.

Hey, I'll tell you what though, the next time you need a broken pipe fixed, call your family doctor.

Where did you read in any of my posts I "look down on people who earn a journeyman position"? My posts here have been peppered with resp Ct for tradesmen.

My initial question was: Who will administer Pell Grants?

Eliminating the DoE would mean the elimination of that vital program.

I went to college with the help of Pell Grants.

Your entire attitude toward them screams it. When you make statements like, will you ask a carpenter to do surgery on you, you demean those who follow a life in the trades.

Some reality is this. When a journeyman has been plying his or her trade for 10, 20, 30 years, they have such a deep understanding of their craft that they have what is more than a Doctorate in that subject. At 10 to 15 years, I would equate their skill at more than a graduate level degree, and from 5 to 10 years, at bachelors easily.

With all that said, they don't have to go 50k to 250k dollars in debt to achieve it.

For those who want to go to college, more power to them. We need to stop pushing it ahead of other choices, however.

I simply asked if the DoE is eliminating mated, who would administer Pell Grants.

Throughout my subsequent posts, I often peppered my comments with 'all due respect for tradesmen...'.

I have been amazed at the lack of support for higher education. Tradesmen certainly perform essential services. But college educated professionals are essential for our society's progress. Scientific advancement is a point of pride in modern American achievement. People from all over the globe come here to be schooled in essential professional skills. Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys serve global communities in no less a capacity than tradesmen.

If Right Wingers get their way and eliminate higher education opportunities for economically disadvantaged students, our national n will surely suffer as a result.

In my opinion, most conservatives are more interested in cutting higher education for certain fields of study, specifically fields such as gender studies, ethnic studies, etc. You listed "Doctors, engineers, researchers, artists, attorneys" as serving communities. I would remove artists from that list and as far as researchers are concerned, it depends on what they're researching. I say limit government funding to fields such as STEM and trades/professions (plumber, accountant, lawyer, anything that pays the bills in the free market). If you want a degree in Art History, pay for it yourself or get someone else to.

You do not see art as necessary?

Why do Indonesians fly national flags and provide uniforms to their armed forces? Why do Zimbabweans sing a national anthem? The culture of Western civilization conquered the globe. They sing the blues in Chile. They admire Jackson Pollack in Mongolia. They dance the twist in Korea.

Beverly Sills once said "Art is the signature of a civilization." When Michelangelo sculpted David, who was the mayor of Florence? When Rembrandt painted The Old Masters, who was in charge of Amsterdam? It's the art, the music, the dance and plays and films that define our time and place.

She me may say they can live without the arts. But what of the quality of their lives?

I don't find it necessary for the taxpayer to pay for it.

 

[DGS49]

The EXISTENCE of the Department of Education is unconstitutional, as Congress lacks the power to spend money on education.

However, no government agency is ever cancelled or abandoned, so Trump should command the Department of Education to re-form itself to conform to the model of the FBI w/r/t local law enforcement. It is a catalyst for new technologies, a source for valuable law enforcement data and information, and a clearing house for statistics. That's what the Dept of Education should be to public schools. Nothing more.

 

[anynameyouwish]

An actual minimum wage, not a living wage. One can be in favor of one without the other.

The same applies to the above. If your only argument is that it may be abused, then we might as well all start our own horde and ride the plains seeking pillage targets.

There is a role for a Dept of Ed at the federal level, to supply minimum general requirements for schooling.

except that there is no such thing as a living wage,,,

and all the dept of ed has done is brought down the education in this country,,,which is well documented

I didn't say there is a hard concept of a living wage, it is propaganda to escalate the minimum wage to buy votes.

Just because something is abused doesn't mean in a more controlled form it doesn't have a viable function.

then that leaves us with the constitution, which gives no authority for any involvement,,,

Minimal standards could be seen as a compact between the States, which is forbidden by the Constitution unless approved by commerce.

It also provides a federal baseline for full faith and credit of any educational documents issued by a State, to be recognized by other States.

There is no constitutional ban on the feds being involved, and several options to see it being acceptable.

thats a stretch at best,,,

and the constitution as per the 10th amendment isnt about what they are banned from doing but what they are delegated/allowed to do,,and education isnt there

well
I'm a progressive moron (no doubt you are hunting me)

but it seems to me,
regardless of what the constitution does or does not say about education,
that it makes a LOT of sense for every student in the USA to be educated in a similar fashion; same language, same history. As others have stated: minimum standards that we can all agree on.

if we only go by the constitution
and we refuse to allow ANYTHING that isn't actually CONDONED by the constitution
we won't be able to do anything but fire off our guns and mouths.

Many people (conservative christians) would like to set (in law) STANDARDS of marriage (one man, one woman) but THAT isn't in the constitution, either.

The constitution is a fine document but it didn't cover everything.

I don't believe that people living today should be bound by the dictates of men who died 200 years ago.

Seems to me that the living have every right to decide for themselves.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

You do not see art as necessary?

Why do Indonesians fly national flags and provide uniforms to their armed forces? Why do Zimbabweans sing a national anthem? The culture of Western civilization conquered the globe. They sing the blues in Chile. They admire Jackson Pollack in Mongolia. They dance the twist in Korea.

Beverly Sills once said "Art is the signature of a civilization." When Michelangelo sculpted David, who was the mayor of Florence? When Rembrandt painted The Old Masters, who was in charge of Amsterdam? It's the art, the music, the dance and plays and films that define our time and place.

She me may say they can live without the arts. But what of the quality of their lives?

There's a difference between learning a skill and learning the history behind a skill and expecting to make a living on that knowledge.

Art is absolutely valuable, but it is only as valuable as the market dictates.

I can't crank out shit music and expect to get paid like Michael Jackson or Prince.

I can't paint stick figures that a 5-year-old could paint and expect to fetch $10,000 if and when said painting is sold.

I believe that is the point.
.