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It's hard to decide which thread is more entertaining (and telling):
This one, or the one from several weeks ago where Soggy repeatedly suggested that women can be half-pregnant.
Hmmmm?
As good as this one is, I have to go with half-pregnant. That's just a friggin hoot!
It's hard to decide which thread is more entertaining (and telling):
This one, or the one from several weeks ago where Soggy repeatedly suggested that women can be half-pregnant.
Hmmmm?
As good as this one is, I have to go with half-pregnant. That's just a friggin hoot!
Toss up. I think Shog is in HR and that makes this one even funnier.
Do you think that might help explain Soggy's incessant anger? Assuming he takes his work responsibilities seriously, he has to deal with dumbasses on a daily basis all while pretending to be nice. I'm starting to think this place might be his therapy.
Sorry Gluegun, but as unbiased observer of this debate between you and Ravioli about the legality of paying undocumented workers to pave your driveway using their own equipment and materials, I have to say you lost about 30 posts back.
It's hard to decide which thread is more entertaining (and telling):
This one, or the one from several weeks ago where Soggy repeatedly suggested that women can be half-pregnant.
Hmmmm?
As good as this one is, I have to go with half-pregnant. That's just a friggin hoot!
I knew it would confuse you. 1The agency point was made by the IRS to let you know that if you use an employment agency to find an employee, you are still considered the employer.
2 If you are using an agency for your labor pool, you are either paying the agency on a regular basis and they pay the people working for you, or you are only using them as an employment agency and you are paying the people that are working for you.
In the first case, they are not your employees. In the second case, they are.
3
None of this has anything to do with my hypothetical driveway crew. They are not my employees and therefore I am not obligated to have them fill out a W-9.
I wonder, if a truck full of half pregnant Mexicans pulled up to Chez Shoog and offered to repave his driveway, would he consider them half legal employees? Presuming they were impregnated on American soil, of course.
Toss up. I think Shog is in HR and that makes this one even funnier.
Do you think that might help explain Soggy's incessant anger? Assuming he takes his work responsibilities seriously, he has to deal with dumbasses on a daily basis all while pretending to be nice. I'm starting to think this place might be his therapy.
*sigh*
1 Again, you are wrong. Feel free to go to MANPOWER and tell them that you want to contract THEIR employees and ask them how, all of a sudden, YOU become their employer. im giving you specific examples that you are free to believe or not. Your cunfusion, and we can both post the same source again, about the IRS criteria is hilarious for anyone who has actually WORKED in the employment field.
2. NEITHER of which describes what YOU are trying to do by using a bunch of illegals without an agency or contracting labor company. It doesn't matter that you pay someone one else, Ravi. What matters it the legal status of the employer, YOU or the AGENCY or the LEGAL CONTRACTOR or the LEGAL SELF EMPLOYED LABORER. Illegals don't magically become LEGAL LABOR just because they have a lawnmower. Without an AGENCY or LEGAL CONTRACTOR YOU become the employer just like YOU become the employer when hiring a neighborhood kid to come to YOUR HOUSE and babysit your kid. Weather or not you pay the kid instead of an agency doesn't matter. Either way, EMPLOYING AN ILLEGAL TO BABYSIT IS STILL AGAINST THE LAW. Likewise, hiring illegals to pour your driveway is similarly against the law. Again, we can both re-quote your IRS source. You are fucking this up even if Mani and Anguille are now here to add their expertise on employment law.
3. In fact, they would be your employees since THEY are not a legal contracting service OR a legal self employed company. Im sorry you cannot get this through your thick fucking skull but, thankfully, you realize the necessity of the I-9 even if you refuse to acknowledge your responsibility when hoping that avoid the legality of hiring illegals. Hey, you can always hand out screwdrivers at the border and *HOCUS POCUS* create legal labor!
Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?In determining whether the person providing service is an employee or an independent contractor, all information that provides evidence of the degree of control and independence must be considered.
Common Law Rules
Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:
- Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
- Financial: Are the business aspects of the workers job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
- Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?
You honestly don't know the difference between an employee and a company and a self-employed contractor, do you? How the hell do you get through the work day? Here's another link from the IRS:
Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?
There's a driveway crew working in my neighborhood, we'll call them PimpYourDriveWay. They've done three driveways and give me an estimate. I say, sure, I like the job you did next door, do mine the same way.
Who's controlling the employees of PimpYourDriveWay? NOT ME.
Who's paying the employees of PimpYourDriveWay and giving them tools to do the job? NOT ME.
Who's giving the employees of PimpYourDriveWay bennies? NOT ME.
Tell you what, Shog, call the IRS at 800-829-1040 and ask them if you would need to verify the immigration status of a company that is resurfacing your driveway.
The above applies even if PimpYourDriveWay is actually one person.
You honestly don't know the difference between an employee and a company and a self-employed contractor, do you? How the hell do you get through the work day? Here's another link from the IRS:
Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?
There's a driveway crew working in my neighborhood, we'll call them PimpYourDriveWay. They've done three driveways and give me an estimate. I say, sure, I like the job you did next door, do mine the same way.
Who's controlling the employees of PimpYourDriveWay? NOT ME.
Who's paying the employees of PimpYourDriveWay and giving them tools to do the job? NOT ME.
Who's giving the employees of PimpYourDriveWay bennies? NOT ME.
Tell you what, Shog, call the IRS at 800-829-1040 and ask them if you would need to verify the immigration status of a company that is resurfacing your driveway.
The above applies even if PimpYourDriveWay is actually one person.
AN ILLEGAL IS NOT AN IDEPENDANT CONTRACTOR JUST BECAUSE HE HAS A FUCKING TOOLBELT, RAVI. THATS THE GIANT PUNCHLINE YOU SEEM TO BE MISSING. A TRUCKLOAD OF MEXICANS ARE NOT A "WORK CREW" THAT IS LEGALLY EMPLOYABLE. PIMPYOURDRIVEWAY IS NEITHER AN AGENCY NOR A CONTRACTOR, LEGALLY, JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE TOOLS. YES, YOU ARE CONTROLLING THEIR WORK SINCE THEY ARE NOT DIRECTED BY THEIR OWN BUILDING POLICIES OUTSIDE OF YOUR PARTICULAR NEEDS. YES, YOU ARE PAYING THEM, DESPITE THEIR FUCKING TOOLS, TO WORK ON YOUR PROPERTY WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF AN ACTUAL LEGAL BUSINESS LISENCE. BENNYS ARE NOT THE MIDIGATING FACTOR IN DETERMINING ELIGABILITY FOR LEGAL EMPLOYMENT OF ILLEGAL ALIENS.
AGAIN, AND THE IRS WILL AGREE, A TRUCKFUL OF FUCKING MEXICANS WITH TOOLBELTS IS NOT A FUCKING COMPANY.
holy SHIT. do you have ANY idea why an actual COMPANY must have a business lisence? You know, documentation that specifically differentiates between MANPOWER and Jose and his 6 cousins?
no, ravi, you are still wrong. But, make sure you say ILLEGAL ALIEN when you call the IRS. Im sure you'll get your aswer quicker than you would while wrapping it up in some acrobatic nomenclature.
by your logic, Ravi, the image below must be a legal union meeting too, eh?
Wow, I made you SHOUT, I am so proud of myself.
You don't actually need a tool to be a company or self-employed, doofus. Some bozo I hire off the street to fix my software problem for an hour isn't my employee.
And yes, I do have an idea since I own a company, which started out as one unlicensed retard that was self-employed and did everything by the IRS book.
The point is, I am not responsible for checking the immigration status of a contractor or company I hire, only for the immigration status of a person I EMPLOY.
CHECKMATE BOZO.
Could be. I can't tell if people are legal by looking at them.
That's my driveway crew example. You lose.You DO NOT need to complete a Form I-9 for persons who
are:
4. Providing labor to you who are employed by a contractor
providing contract services (e.g., employee leasing or
temporary agencies).
That's my driveway crew example. You lose.
btw, your link doesn't seem to work.
