Would you support a presidential candidate who held that biblical law superceded the Constitution?

[Kondor3]

Just because the Constitution does not mention God does not mean that some of the Bible helped to inspire the Constitution.
Like no business done on Sundays or some of the Leviticus and Deuteronomy laws plus many others that are incorporated into the Constitution.

Sharia law....but enlighten us...what are these Leviticus/Deuteronomy laws incorporated in the Constitution?

Is there a reason I can't get an answer back on this?

Christianity vs. The Constitution - Christian Principles in the Constitution?
The Bible and Government - Faith Facts
All men are sinners Constitutional checks and balances Gen 8:21, Jer. 17:9, Mk. 7:20-23, Rom. 3:23, 1 Jn. 1:8
James Madison
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”
Baron Charles Montesquieu wrote "The Spirit of the Laws", a book that was read and studied intently by our Founders. Montesquieu wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government.

And the fact that the British government followed the *exact* same separation (down to a bicameral legislature) was just a coincidental quirk of history?

Not the exact same separation.
Separation of powers in the uk | Law Teacher
There Is No Absolute Doctrine Of Separation Of Powers In The UK Constitution. Overlaps Exist Both In Terms Of The Functions Of The Organs Of State And The Personnel Operating Within Them.

Hell, they don't even have a real Constitution, insofar as I remmeber...

Just a gaggle of law and precedent and tradition and rulings and opinion, congealed together, that serves a similar purpose, even though they laughingly refer to that congealed mess as a 'constitution'...

Perhaps I'm remembering that incorrectly...

 

[bravoactual]

Sharia law....but enlighten us...what are these Leviticus/Deuteronomy laws incorporated in the Constitution?

Is there a reason I can't get an answer back on this?

Christianity vs. The Constitution - Christian Principles in the Constitution?
The Bible and Government - Faith Facts
All men are sinners Constitutional checks and balances Gen 8:21, Jer. 17:9, Mk. 7:20-23, Rom. 3:23, 1 Jn. 1:8
James Madison
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”
Baron Charles Montesquieu wrote "The Spirit of the Laws", a book that was read and studied intently by our Founders. Montesquieu wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government.

And the fact that the British government followed the *exact* same separation (down to a bicameral legislature) was just a coincidental quirk of history?

Not the exact same separation.
Separation of powers in the uk | Law Teacher
There Is No Absolute Doctrine Of Separation Of Powers In The UK Constitution. Overlaps Exist Both In Terms Of The Functions Of The Organs Of State And The Personnel Operating Within Them.

The organization is virtually identical. A judiciary nominated by the prime minister and confirmed by the house of lords. A house of commons, affirming the same bicameral legislature as we use here. And a prime minister which is analgous to the President in terms of scope of authority .

And try as I might, I've found exactly nothing in terms of actual quotes from James Madison that he was 'inspired' by Isaiah 33:23. Its just a series of religious websites quoting each other.

But never a quote of James Madison on the matter. It sounds like an old Christian folk tale.

The author of the original quote went to the same school of truth as Carly Fiorina, and she is after all a well known liar.

 

[bravoactual]

Sharia law....but enlighten us...what are these Leviticus/Deuteronomy laws incorporated in the Constitution?

Is there a reason I can't get an answer back on this?

Christianity vs. The Constitution - Christian Principles in the Constitution?
The Bible and Government - Faith Facts
All men are sinners Constitutional checks and balances Gen 8:21, Jer. 17:9, Mk. 7:20-23, Rom. 3:23, 1 Jn. 1:8
James Madison
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”
Baron Charles Montesquieu wrote "The Spirit of the Laws", a book that was read and studied intently by our Founders. Montesquieu wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government.

And the fact that the British government followed the *exact* same separation (down to a bicameral legislature) was just a coincidental quirk of history?

Not the exact same separation.
Separation of powers in the uk | Law Teacher
There Is No Absolute Doctrine Of Separation Of Powers In The UK Constitution. Overlaps Exist Both In Terms Of The Functions Of The Organs Of State And The Personnel Operating Within Them.

Hell, they don't even have a real Constitution, insofar as I remmeber...

Just a gaggle of law and precedent and tradition and rulings and opinion, congealed together, that serves a similar purpose, even though they laughingly refer to that congealed mess as a 'constitution'...

Perhaps I'm remembering that incorrectly...

The Original Constitution is on display at the National Archives, right along with the Declaration of Independence.

Epic Fail yet again.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Hey dummy since christians made the constitution I would say it is a moot question.....

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

The Constitution is a "secular" docoment and there is no mention of any zombie God.

Just because the Constitution does not mention God does not mean that some of the Bible helped to inspire the Constitution.
Like no business done on Sundays or some of the Leviticus and Deuteronomy laws plus many others that are incorporated into the Constitution.

Sharia law....but enlighten us...what are these Leviticus/Deuteronomy laws incorporated in the Constitution?

Is there a reason I can't get an answer back on this?

Christianity vs. The Constitution - Christian Principles in the Constitution?
The Bible and Government - Faith Facts
All men are sinners Constitutional checks and balances Gen 8:21, Jer. 17:9, Mk. 7:20-23, Rom. 3:23, 1 Jn. 1:8
James Madison
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”
Baron Charles Montesquieu wrote "The Spirit of the Laws", a book that was read and studied intently by our Founders. Montesquieu wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government.

Where did Madison report these sources and influences in his writings? I suspect that some other person is speaing "for" Madison, and if so, that is lying.

 

[Kondor3]

...The Original Constitution is on display at the National Archives, right along with the Declaration of Independence. Epic Fail yet again.

If you go back and look at the context, I was talking about the UK Constitution... twit.

 

[Votto]

Re another thread here regarding a presidential candidate that held a particular religion superceded the Constitution. My own view is there is no religion that supercedes the Constitution.

It would be heaven on earth.

Think of it, adulters stoned, theives lose their hands and have to pay back what they stole, and taxes go back to only 10% of income.

Washington would either lose all of its public officials to stoning or end up maimed and in poverty for the rest of their lives.

 

[peach174]

The Constitution is a "secular" docoment and there is no mention of any zombie God.

Just because the Constitution does not mention God does not mean that some of the Bible helped to inspire the Constitution.
Like no business done on Sundays or some of the Leviticus and Deuteronomy laws plus many others that are incorporated into the Constitution.

Sharia law....but enlighten us...what are these Leviticus/Deuteronomy laws incorporated in the Constitution?

Is there a reason I can't get an answer back on this?

Christianity vs. The Constitution - Christian Principles in the Constitution?
The Bible and Government - Faith Facts
All men are sinners Constitutional checks and balances Gen 8:21, Jer. 17:9, Mk. 7:20-23, Rom. 3:23, 1 Jn. 1:8
James Madison
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”
Baron Charles Montesquieu wrote "The Spirit of the Laws", a book that was read and studied intently by our Founders. Montesquieu wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government.

Where did Madison report these sources and influences in his writings? I suspect that some other person is speaing "for" Madison, and if so, that is lying.

The Library of Congress.
Religion and the Congress of the Confederation - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions (Library of Congress)
Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by "covenant theology," a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they "should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears." Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.

The first national government of the United States, was convinced that the "public prosperity" of a society depended on the vitality of its religion. Nothing less than a "spirit of universal reformation among all ranks and degrees of our citizens," Congress declared to the American people, would "make us a holy, that so we may be a happy people."

 

[peach174]

Sharia law....but enlighten us...what are these Leviticus/Deuteronomy laws incorporated in the Constitution?

Is there a reason I can't get an answer back on this?

Christianity vs. The Constitution - Christian Principles in the Constitution?
The Bible and Government - Faith Facts
All men are sinners Constitutional checks and balances Gen 8:21, Jer. 17:9, Mk. 7:20-23, Rom. 3:23, 1 Jn. 1:8
James Madison
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”
Baron Charles Montesquieu wrote "The Spirit of the Laws", a book that was read and studied intently by our Founders. Montesquieu wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government.

And the fact that the British government followed the *exact* same separation (down to a bicameral legislature) was just a coincidental quirk of history?

Not the exact same separation.
Separation of powers in the uk | Law Teacher
There Is No Absolute Doctrine Of Separation Of Powers In The UK Constitution. Overlaps Exist Both In Terms Of The Functions Of The Organs Of State And The Personnel Operating Within Them.

Hell, they don't even have a real Constitution, insofar as I remmeber...

Just a gaggle of law and precedent and tradition and rulings and opinion, congealed together, that serves a similar purpose, even though they laughingly refer to that congealed mess as a 'constitution'...

Perhaps I'm remembering that incorrectly...

That's right. You are remembering correctly.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Where did Madison report these sources and influences in his writings? Such as Isiah 33:22. That is a ding ling argument, for it is not for a constitutional republic but rather an unitary theocracy, which Madison would have repudiated in a heart beat.

 

[Skylar]

Is there a reason I can't get an answer back on this?

Christianity vs. The Constitution - Christian Principles in the Constitution?
The Bible and Government - Faith Facts
All men are sinners Constitutional checks and balances Gen 8:21, Jer. 17:9, Mk. 7:20-23, Rom. 3:23, 1 Jn. 1:8
James Madison
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”
Baron Charles Montesquieu wrote "The Spirit of the Laws", a book that was read and studied intently by our Founders. Montesquieu wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government.

And the fact that the British government followed the *exact* same separation (down to a bicameral legislature) was just a coincidental quirk of history?

Not the exact same separation.
Separation of powers in the uk | Law Teacher
There Is No Absolute Doctrine Of Separation Of Powers In The UK Constitution. Overlaps Exist Both In Terms Of The Functions Of The Organs Of State And The Personnel Operating Within Them.

Hell, they don't even have a real Constitution, insofar as I remmeber...

Just a gaggle of law and precedent and tradition and rulings and opinion, congealed together, that serves a similar purpose, even though they laughingly refer to that congealed mess as a 'constitution'...

Perhaps I'm remembering that incorrectly...

That's right. You are remembering correctly.

And they don't need a constitution to have a system of common laws that define a government that was virtually identical in organization to the government the founders eventually created.

There's no mention of 'Isaiah' in any of the Federalist Papers. I just checked. As for the entire constitutional congress, I've still found no mention.

Can you show us what you claim to be quoting? Or is it just one religious website quoting another in a folk lore circle jerk?

 

[Skylar]

Where did Madison report these sources and influences in his writings? Such as Isiah 33:22. That is a ding ling argument, for it is not for a constitutional republic but rather an unitary theocracy, which Madison would have repudiated in a heart beat.

I think the status of Isaiah 33:22 is 'no mention'.

 

[peach174]

Where did Madison report these sources and influences in his writings? Such as Isiah 33:22. That is a ding ling argument, for it is not for a constitutional republic but rather an unitary theocracy, which Madison would have repudiated in a heart beat.

James Madison and the Constitution and branches of Government
Branches of U.S. Gov. –
“For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king; (He will save us.)” – Is. 33:22
– James Madison, reading of the Perfect Governor in Isaiah.
While we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe, the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to them whose minds have not yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance (Massachusetts: Isaiah Thomas, 1786). This can be found in numerous documentary histories and other resources.
“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 James Madison to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

“While we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe, the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to them whose minds have not yielded to the evidence which has convinced us.” James Madison

 

[JakeStarkey]

I think what peach is referring to is a some yokel trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's poke. The best Isaiah 33:22 can build is a theocracy subject to Isaiah's God. Jennifer Featherstone is "Co-host of The Story of Liberty Radio Broadcast, video editor and creator, blogger & Web designer for the Story of Liberty." She is not a scholar, not a historian, not a political scientist.

She has take her sources of out of content. Madison would have raised the militias of Virginia against anyone trying to created a Christian republic. In the 1780s, Madison and Jefferson prevented Governor Patrick Henry from establishing a Christian Church in Virginia.

 

[peach174]

Christianity vs. The Constitution - Christian Principles in the Constitution?
The Bible and Government - Faith Facts
All men are sinners Constitutional checks and balances Gen 8:21, Jer. 17:9, Mk. 7:20-23, Rom. 3:23, 1 Jn. 1:8
James Madison
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”
Baron Charles Montesquieu wrote "The Spirit of the Laws", a book that was read and studied intently by our Founders. Montesquieu wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government.

And the fact that the British government followed the *exact* same separation (down to a bicameral legislature) was just a coincidental quirk of history?

Not the exact same separation.
Separation of powers in the uk | Law Teacher
There Is No Absolute Doctrine Of Separation Of Powers In The UK Constitution. Overlaps Exist Both In Terms Of The Functions Of The Organs Of State And The Personnel Operating Within Them.

Hell, they don't even have a real Constitution, insofar as I remmeber...

Just a gaggle of law and precedent and tradition and rulings and opinion, congealed together, that serves a similar purpose, even though they laughingly refer to that congealed mess as a 'constitution'...

Perhaps I'm remembering that incorrectly...

That's right. You are remembering correctly.

And they don't need a constitution to have a system of common laws that define a government that was virtually identical in organization to the government the founders eventually created.

There's no mention of 'Isaiah' in any of the Federalist Papers. I just checked. As for the entire constitutional congress, I've still found no mention.

Can you show us what you claim to be quoting? Or is it just one religious website quoting another in a folk lore circle jerk?

I said the library of congress and the 1st Continental Congress not the Federalist papers.

 

[Skylar]

Where did Madison report these sources and influences in his writings? Such as Isiah 33:22. That is a ding ling argument, for it is not for a constitutional republic but rather an unitary theocracy, which Madison would have repudiated in a heart beat.

James Madison and the Constitution and branches of Government
Branches of U.S. Gov. –
“For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king; (He will save us.)” – Is. 33:22
– James Madison, reading of the Perfect Governor in Isaiah.

Where and when?

Again, I've seen plenty of religious websites that make the claim.....but they can't actually quote Madison saying as much.

 

[Skylar]

And the fact that the British government followed the *exact* same separation (down to a bicameral legislature) was just a coincidental quirk of history?

Not the exact same separation.
Separation of powers in the uk | Law Teacher
There Is No Absolute Doctrine Of Separation Of Powers In The UK Constitution. Overlaps Exist Both In Terms Of The Functions Of The Organs Of State And The Personnel Operating Within Them.

Hell, they don't even have a real Constitution, insofar as I remmeber...

Just a gaggle of law and precedent and tradition and rulings and opinion, congealed together, that serves a similar purpose, even though they laughingly refer to that congealed mess as a 'constitution'...

Perhaps I'm remembering that incorrectly...

That's right. You are remembering correctly.

And they don't need a constitution to have a system of common laws that define a government that was virtually identical in organization to the government the founders eventually created.

There's no mention of 'Isaiah' in any of the Federalist Papers. I just checked. As for the entire constitutional congress, I've still found no mention.

Can you show us what you claim to be quoting? Or is it just one religious website quoting another in a folk lore circle jerk?

I said the library of congress and the 1st Continental Congress not the Federalist papers.

Prove that your Madison quote is in the Library of Congress.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's not.

 

[bravoactual]

...The Original Constitution is on display at the National Archives, right along with the Declaration of Independence. Epic Fail yet again.

If you go back and look at the context, I was talking about the UK Constitution... twit.

Context.....no don't even try that. You failed.

If you do not know where the U.S. Constitution is kept then maybe you should try repeating Civics.

Your "Context" is bullshit.

Again another in a long line of Epic Fails.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Re another thread here regarding a presidential candidate that held a particular religion superceded the Constitution. My own view is there is no religion that supercedes the Constitution.

It would be heaven on earth.

Think of it, adulters stoned, theives lose their hands and have to pay back what they stole, and taxes go back to only 10% of income.

Washington would either lose all of its public officials to stoning or end up maimed and in poverty for the rest of their lives.

Heaven on Earth? LOL Wow that is wishful thinking.

Evangelical preachers are the most larcenous lecherous people in the population currently, they steal old people's savings and call it 'seed' money and then buy 50 million dollar jets. 20,000 children die every day around the world, where is the church. The molestation of children by clergy. Various murders schemes by ministers and preachers to get a woman, get money, get power.

There are very very few Christians in the US. Most are kristians, fake Christians, who spit on and ignore the poor and worship the rich.

In what fantasy world do you live.

 

[peach174]

Where did Madison report these sources and influences in his writings? Such as Isiah 33:22. That is a ding ling argument, for it is not for a constitutional republic but rather an unitary theocracy, which Madison would have repudiated in a heart beat.

James Madison and the Constitution and branches of Government
Branches of U.S. Gov. –
“For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king; (He will save us.)” – Is. 33:22
– James Madison, reading of the Perfect Governor in Isaiah.

Where and when?

Again, I've seen plenty of religious websites that make the claim.....but they can't actually quote Madison saying as much.

Again Library of Congress
His own notes and papers.
James Madison and the Federal Constitutional Convention of 1787 - The James Madison Papers, 1723-1859
also here
Avalon Project - Madison Debates - May 14, May 25